Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

Aztrias

It sounds like good news to me, finally I don't have to grind titles on my alts.

spartaxoxo

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

So, just make the thing that people need you to make on your character that does have the motif knowledge. But, at least then people will know that you have that service available at a glance. People effectively do this anyway in their guild. Most people just say in their guild note "Grandmaster crafter message me if you want something," they don't go "my Grandmaster crafter is craftathon 3000 message me only if I'm on that character." It only takes a couple minutes to switch minutes to switch toons.

Jaraal

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

spartaxoxo

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

Achievements and their associated titles will both be aaccount wide.

Jaraal

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

A title is something earned by the player. Players don't suddenly lose knowledge of how to do something just because they are on a different character. And titles can be purchased from other players anyway.

Horse race vs car race. In one, the achievement is earned by the horse (character), and the other, by the driver (player). ESO is less horse race and more NASCAR.

Tandor wrote: »

Wait, if one of your characters topped the leaderboard, would all of your other characters top it too? Because that's the logical implication of all the characters sharing achievements and titles !

Under global achievements, the leaderboards should not even mention character names. Only player names.

I’ve had two different characters finish in the top 10 of Gray Host leaderboard at the same time. Are you saying my account name would be listed twice, but not the names of my characters? That seems odd.

BahometZ

I don't understand why there can't just be a global achievement score tracker. Does that not do what people want?
Who actually wanted titles shared across characters who didn't do the achievements associated with them?
How is it worthwhile to undermine a considerable part of the game, which has had considerable development effort put into it, to please people who don't engage with that content.

Titles matter in the endgame community, and I would honestly hope for anyone who enjoys the personal satisfaction of achievement. If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.

Yes this is just a game about collecting pixels and having a good time doing it, and it's filled by people with different motivations and goals; I enjoy many aspects of the game. But this one move is undermining the time spent by highly motivated people and will alienate them from the game. I know many people who already have difficult titles on several toons who are still keen to go in and get it done on others.

Say I've got 18 toons designed for different content, why would I want trial based achievements unlocked on some PvP bosmer stamblade, why would anyone want to roll around in the sewers with a title earned on a necro tank?

I also see a lot of people saying titles are no guarantee of a players ability, and yeah some people can be carried to some titles, but those people get found out, its just that this is going to make it even more of a chore than it was to weed out bad and duplicitous players from disrupting raid teams. I'm disappointed that Zenimax don't see how detrimental this is to the end-game raiding community.

It's yet another indication that they do not care for players who operate outside of the mainstream roleplaying community. If you pursue PvP and veteran content your time and effort is apparently of little concern.

KyleTheYounger

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

How is this any different from picking up (and getting stuck with) randoms for Vet and Trial runs?

Elsonso

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

A title is something earned by the player. Players don't suddenly lose knowledge of how to do something just because they are on a different character. And titles can be purchased from other players anyway.

Horse race vs car race. In one, the achievement is earned by the horse (character), and the other, by the driver (player). ESO is less horse race and more NASCAR.

Tandor wrote: »

Wait, if one of your characters topped the leaderboard, would all of your other characters top it too? Because that's the logical implication of all the characters sharing achievements and titles !

Under global achievements, the leaderboards should not even mention character names. Only player names.

I’ve had two different characters finish in the top 10 of Gray Host leaderboard at the same time. Are you saying my account name would be listed twice, but not the names of my characters? That seems odd.

It would just show you did it multiple times, same as if you did it twice on the same character and got on the leaderboard both times.

Casul

BahometZ wrote: »

I don't understand why there can't just be a global achievement score tracker. Does that not do what people want?
Who actually wanted titles shared across characters who didn't do the achievements associated with them?
How is it worthwhile to undermine a considerable part of the game, which has had considerable development effort put into it, to please people who don't engage with that content.

Titles matter in the endgame community, and I would honestly hope for anyone who enjoys the personal satisfaction of achievement. If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.

Yes this is just a game about collecting pixels and having a good time doing it, and it's filled by people with different motivations and goals; I enjoy many aspects of the game. But this one move is undermining the time spent by highly motivated people and will alienate them from the game. I know many people who already have difficult titles on several toons who are still keen to go in and get it done on others.

Say I've got 18 toons designed for different content, why would I want trial based achievements unlocked on some PvP bosmer stamblade, why would anyone want to roll around in the sewers with a title earned on a necro tank?

I also see a lot of people saying titles are no guarantee of a players ability, and yeah some people can be carried to some titles, but those people get found out, its just that this is going to make it even more of a chore than it was to weed out bad and duplicitous players from disrupting raid teams. I'm disappointed that Zenimax don't see how detrimental this is to the end-game raiding community.

It's yet another indication that they do not care for players who operate outside of the mainstream roleplaying community. If you pursue PvP and veteran content your time and effort is apparently of little concern.

I do pvp and endgame, I am happy I can now play more then one character instead of worry about missing achievements on my main.

Troodon80

BahometZ wrote: »

If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.

And yet is opens up more potential to group compositions as people who main a specific class on a role who won't support the group by coming on whatever parses higher (as of current patch, DK) or joining as something that helps -- e.g. necro with MK or EC, as providing a group buff ultimate. It would now mean they can forgo only doing content on their mains, which might not be optimal. I already have most achievements in the game on my DK tank, and I would greatly enjoy being able to do content that isn't my DK tank. There are still plenty of reasons for me to do the content. Some groups I know double up on classes and have, for example, multiple templars (one as a healer, other as a DD) or sorcs. In this case, it frees group members up to change to something else. Like a sorc healer running Crystal Weapon for extra debuff, sorc can change to DK or necro, etc.

You mentioned personal satisfaction, which is basically all achievements are these days. You can still do the content on other characters and as other roles, and, while the achievement might not pop up as awarded, you will still get that personal satifcation of earning it. If the content is enjoyable, people will still play it; no matter how old or outdated it seems to be.

Amottica

I fail to see how this ruins titles. If they actually earned it then they do know what they are doing.

How do you know they have not paid for a clear as things stand now? That means account-wide titles are not that big of an issue.

Ilsabet

MrGraves wrote: »

My only concern is, Are achievements repeatable for chars who have NOT done them? do we have access to account progress while still having individual char progress? especially in terms of say, undaunted where undaunted achievements will advance the skill line?

This is a particularly good point, because the Undaunted skill line would be waaaay more of a grind if you didn't get those advancement points from achievements. Hopefully ZOS has considered how to handle this and other such issues if their plan is to make achievements one and done for the entire account.


In general I'm more dismayed than excited about account-wide achievements, because it was interesting to have that record of what each character has done with regard to quest completion and such. The really useful stuff (dyes, mounts, costumes, etc.) are already account-wide, and that's the main stuff I care about using without restrictions. It'll just feel weird for all of my characters to have access to titles that they definitively did not earn.

I do wonder if things like the kill 800 skeevers in vet dungeons will have their progress tallied across all characters. I guess that's the main benefit I'd get out of it, if I suddenly got a bunch of achievements that my characters have been partially contributing to as they go along.

StevieKingslayer

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

Troodon80

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

If it's a personal goal, how has the goal changed? It's personal to you. Regardless of the fact that the achievement is unlocked, you can still make it your primary goal to do it on said character to prove to yourself that you can. For personal satisfaction.

MaddPowered

Instanced PvE / Alliance War achievements should remain character specific. Having these achievements account wide kills all replayability for most players who do Endgame PvE / PvP.

The majority of players who do endgame PvE go for raid titles on their alts and now that will be pointless when achievements are globalized.

@ZOS_Kevin

Xarc

Amottica wrote: »

I fail to see how this ruins titles. If they actually earned it then they do know what they are doing.

Maybe you got the title with a magsorc and with your stamNB you suck and people in trials who need someone really OP will be deceived.

it is lying

spartaxoxo

Xarc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I fail to see how this ruins titles. If they actually earned it then they do know what they are doing.

Maybe you got the title with a magsorc and with your stamNB you suck and people in trials who need someone really OP will be deceived.

it is lying

It is only lying if you tell people that you got it on your Stamblade. It is not lying to equip a title you own and have earned. A player earns titles not characters, the characters are not real. They are just tools. A player does not lose knowledge of how to do something just because they swapped characters.

Jaraal

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.

spartaxoxo

Jaraal wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.

I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.

Amottica

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

@StevieKingslayer Did ZeniMax say they were eliminating the character-based list of achievements? If they do not then you still have your goals.

gronoxvx

Amottica wrote: »

I fail to see how this ruins titles. If they actually earned it then they do know what they are doing.

How do you know they have not paid for a clear as things stand now? That means account-wide titles are not that big of an issue.

You can tell within the first few mins of starting an instance that someone paid for their title. Either through them not following mechanics specific to the content or even testing their knowledge of mechanics before the instance begins.

virtus753

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.

@ZOS_Kevin

Does this mean we will no longer be subject to gender locks on titles?

A while ago, the gender-agnostic "Empieror" title was taken away from female characters and replaced with "Empieress" after going live. For those of us who don't want gendered titles and who prefer the better wordplay of Empieror, will we now have the option to use the one we had access to before that change?

Ideally all characters would have access to all forms of titles where variants exist.

While on the subject, please also remove gender locks on dances. Male characters perform a substantially different version of /danceredguard and /dancekhajiit to which female characters have no access and vice-versa. Polymorphs are not an acceptable workaround for this. There is no valid reason to keep discriminating in terms of titulature and choreography between genders, especially when you have the opportunity to change it now that titles are going account wide.

FeedbackOnly

Blinx wrote: »

trust me when I say no one is impressed by your titles, except you

I often get asked how I became a witch. I get hunted when I put on grand master crafter title

FeedbackOnly

HedgehogFeet wrote: »

Could they not make motifs account wide

This will also ruin market

Jaraal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.

I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.

Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.

One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.

spartaxoxo

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.

I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.

Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.

One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.

If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.

kargen27

Contos wrote: »

There is no feature everyone will like, thats it. But saying its inherently bad is stupid. Some may like it, since it has been asked for so long. Some may not, since it may ruin roleplay (I personally cant see how, if you dont want a title you didnt earn with that chaarcter dont use it). I personally like it and its from the better features we got this year. Im kinda sad seing you can give anything to this community but and they will just whine. This will just go down a rabbit hole really fast and soon you will talk about you shd earn all 3600 cp for each character and likes of it. Non-Solo Achievements are worth nothing cuz you can always can get carried. And you get skins, costumes like the emperor one ect accountwide aynways (and its totally fine) so this wont change anything really.

If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.

"you can give anything to this community but and they will just whine"

Someone gives you a glass or arsenic you just going to smile and drink it or say hey I don't think drinking arsenic is a good idea? We are not whining. We are pointing out why we think this isn't a good idea.

There is some confusion and I really hope they don't let multiple characters work towards one achievement. I've seen some mention they do not play alternative characters in certain content because they want the achievement on their main. They say they would play other characters more if those characters worked towards that achievement.
If multiple characters could work towards the same achievement many players would have to shelve characters for a good deal of the activity. We want our character to earn the achievement and another character accidently getting an Ogre Toe Ring and that counting towards our mains achievement would undermine the way we wish to play.

If they are going to do this there needs to be a toggle so those of us that want the achievements earned by one character without help from other characters can choose to do so. I would be less opposed to the idea if I get the option to let my characters earn their achievements on their own.

I also feel titles should be character exclusive but that doesn't affect me so I'm not so strongly opposed to this idea. I still think it takes away incentive to repeat content and will be bad for long term health of the game. And just for the record I opposed dyes and all that other stuff being account wide. I understand why it was done but I think with achievements they have no impact on game play nor cosmetics so leave them character specific. Some achievements need to be difficult to obtain. That is what makes them worth achieving.
When a player comes here and announces they just got their 10th master fisherman the forums goes a bit crazy for that. This change makes that go away.

spartaxoxo

kargen27 wrote: »

If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.

It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.

Jaraal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.

I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.

Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.

One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.

If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.

If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.

CleymenZero

I welcome achievement points being account-wide but I don't think titles should be account-wide.