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Account Wide Titles ruin Titles
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IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wow. Next thing we will be able to do is customize the character by swapping physical bodies. After all, nothing apparently is specific to the Character anymore. The Character has No individual Story to it. No Uniquemess. No Immersion. Once you gain access to something, Everything gonna be Account wide. So create a Breton with the body of a Khajiit. Make an Orc skills with High Elf body.
What is the point of 'earning' anything for a specific character, if Everything just gets put into Account wide access?
IMHO
12 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
Getting the achievement and skill line progress are separate things. We don't know if they'll reward the exp anyway, but they have given no indication of that. So we'll have to find out on that one. Most likely it will be like the purple treasures in antiquities though. All characters have access to the codex for those (e.g. the achievement) but not the exp (and thus don't get the skills automatically) despite having "found" all the purple treasures.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2022 4:30AM3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »wow. Next thing we will be able to do is customize the character by swapping physical bodies. After all, nothing apparently is specific to the Character anymore. The Character has No individual Story to it. No Uniquemess. No Immersion. Once you gain access to something, Everything gonna be Account wide. So create a Breton with the body of a Khajiit. Make an Orc skills with High Elf body.
What is the point of 'earning' anything for a specific character, if Everything just gets put into Account wide access?
IMHO
In pretty much every game with account wide achievements, this is not at all how it works. The quest progress, skills, level, passives etc all remain character specific. The achievements are just cosmetic thing that you can use or not use on that character, as it has it unlocked but not forced equipped. And people manage to have their individual characters despite of that.
I don't see why achievements would work any different here. In fact, a lot of people use them to add even more individualism to their character. Since now they can give them say the Librarian title instantly and then only build their character around that theme, instead of having to build for power first and foremost and then later go back and add that theme.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2022 4:33AM7 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.
i don't understand this argument. you're talking about doing it maybe once more on an alt as if that's going to really impact the amount of times people do a dungeon.
if you're already running it enough to get all the gear and the achievements and all the motifs then you're doing what, 40+ runs?
why do you feel the need to do it more on alts at that point? hasn't that content done it's job already?Edited by Tannus15 on January 28, 2022 4:41AM2 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ishtarknows wrote: »If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.
@ZOS_Kevin my question is, for trial specific titles (like Tick-Tock Tormentor), I got it on my templar healer.
The way it was presented is I will be able to log into my Tank or my DPS and use that title???
How could I prove (going forward) that I healed it and not tanked it? Or the other way - what if I said I tanked it when I really healed it? How can someone verify the truth??
This is very upsetting from a trials guild GM perspective to recruit new players.
People can already respec characters and lie - I get that - but account wide??
Can we NOT do titles?? I'm fine with a global achievement thing (I don't really care) but I want to keep my individual achievements on my characters. I worked very hard to learn to heal, tank and DPS content to get the titles on specific characters - now I can just heal it and call it a day? Whats the point of learning a new role if the character already has the title from my previous clear?
Any info is appreciated.
As it stands right now, you can respec your Templar healer into a tank or dd and still wear your titles. Nobody needs to know the role you played to get them.
This is literally it. Unless you've clipped your POV and can show what you were doing when you got it, you could have done it as literally any role given you can swap between them with a press of a button now.Edited by renne on January 28, 2022 4:34AM3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.
i don't understand this argument. you're talking about doing it maybe once more on an alt as if that's going to really impact the amount of times people do a dungeon.
if you're already running it enough to get all the gear and the achievements and all the motifs then you're doing what, 40+ runs?
why do you feel the need to do it more on alts at that point? hasn't that content done it's job already?
To see if you're good enough to do on that alt in the case of hard content0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.
i don't understand this argument. you're talking about doing it maybe once more on an alt as if that's going to really impact the amount of times people do a dungeon.
if you're already running it enough to get all the gear and the achievements and all the motifs then you're doing what, 40+ runs?
why do you feel the need to do it more on alts at that point? hasn't that content done it's job already?
To see if you're good enough to do on that alt in the case of hard content
what's that got to do with achievements?2 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I was always a bigger fan of character-specific than account-specific, but I'll go with it. If it means that I can give my werewolf the title from MoS HM when I got it on my tank, more's the better. I'd never been that into group content that I wanted to learn how to do it in every other role, so if I can get away with just my main, that's great.
Still do hope that we can still see character-specific achievements because it is fun to look at the dates sometimes (like how I didn't realize that I got the MoS challenger before I even did vMHK - I really wanted that Beast personality for my alt lol).
But whatever. If this is how it's gonna be, I'll still take it. My characters stories live in my head anyway, and even my main has loads of achievements for zones that he technically never goes into (but I wanted to play the stories for)0 -
Zenzuki✭✭✭✭✭I like the addition of this, but for the people that may be concerned about knowing if a current toon has done the "titled" content or not...
Maybe ZOS could make the titles FONT COLOR different for the toon(s) that actually earned said title from the titles FONT COLOR of an alt/main that is just presenting it.
This would act as a quick visual indicator, not only to those that look to see this for clarification of one's current toons particular achievement, but could also help act as a reminder to the individual that may be using that title on an alt/main, that the title has or hasn't yet been properly earned on that particular toon.Can Open...
Worms EVERYWHERE!1 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
@StevieKingslayer Did ZeniMax say they were eliminating the character-based list of achievements? If they do not then you still have your goals.
Doesnt matter. I cannot do -all- of them. That was the goal.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.
i don't understand this argument. you're talking about doing it maybe once more on an alt as if that's going to really impact the amount of times people do a dungeon.
if you're already running it enough to get all the gear and the achievements and all the motifs then you're doing what, 40+ runs?
why do you feel the need to do it more on alts at that point? hasn't that content done it's job already?
To see if you're good enough to do on that alt in the case of hard content
what's that got to do with achievements?
When you get it, you get the satisfying gameplay feedback of the achievement and a record of when your character did it.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the addition of this, but for the people that may be concerned about knowing if a current toon has done the "titled" content or not...
Maybe ZOS could make the titles FONT COLOR different for the toon(s) that actually earned said title from the titles FONT COLOR of an alt/main that is just presenting it.
This would act as a quick visual indicator, not only to those that look to see this for clarification of one's current toons particular achievement, but could also help act as a reminder to the individual that may be using that title on an alt/main, that the title has or hasn't yet been properly earned on that particular toon.
Devaluing an achievement people earned based of some people's subjective judgements about whether or not that title was earned sounds obnoxious to me. I think they could maybe keep the date earned character specific and leave the date as --/--/-- if was earned on a different character, but I don't think the title should be literally getting a scarlet letter for people to judge others for wearing stuff they earned. If someone wants to know whether you earned it on that character or not, they can ask, and that person can be free to tell them or not.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2022 4:55AM9 -
StevieKingslayer✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.
i don't understand this argument. you're talking about doing it maybe once more on an alt as if that's going to really impact the amount of times people do a dungeon.
if you're already running it enough to get all the gear and the achievements and all the motifs then you're doing what, 40+ runs?
why do you feel the need to do it more on alts at that point? hasn't that content done it's job already?
To see if you're good enough to do on that alt in the case of hard content
what's that got to do with achievements?
When you get it, you get the satisfying gameplay feedback of the achievement and a record of when your character did it.
This last comment is why I care and why it matters to me. Its not about anything else. I want a record of when I did it, on what toon, and all that. I dont see why they had to make EVERYTHING account wide. It should have been motif and slayer achieves imo. Not dungeon/trials achieves. I have basically everything collected, there is zero point to me running stuff on alts now.I am demanding better customer service from Zenimax Studios.
I am demanding better and more open communication between the devs & the playerbase.Majin Stevie || Iothane || NymphetaminePVP || PVEPlayer since beta.3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
Getting the achievement and skill line progress are separate things.
At least half of the achievements in game are tied to skill points. I didn’t see anywhere where they said “some achievements.” I also didn’t see anything that said it would be shared titles only.
So which is it?
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kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
A new character that already has everything done isn't incentive to do more content.
How is allowing multiple characters to work towards one achievement not hurting the main characters achievement progress? If an alternate character gets the toe ring then my main gets credit for it. That is gaining grounds on an achievement the main does not deserve. I don't want my other characters actions to affect where my main is in relation to achievements. If I want all my characters to be master fishermen I will get the achievement for each of them individually. I want that to remain an option at the very least.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
NettleCarrier✭✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.
I am concerned that people will claim non meta completes weren't done on those characters. There will be mudslinging saying it wasn't x and x wasn't done in such such build
Since armory exists this isn't really an issue either. Heck, most of my achievements were done as a healer but I haven't healed any vet DLCs in a few patches now. I don't even feel like they count now, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take me in tank armory swap just because I have a title. Request logs, people do that anyway now. For consoles I have no idea how they do things. I for one am looking forward to not needing to find a way to figure out how to get my main character into a specific run for a specific title when I have an alternate character that would perform better in that role on a certain patch. Now I can bring the character that I will be better on without needing to get selfish into bringing my main.GM of Gold Coast Corsairs - PCNA1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
A new character that already has everything done isn't incentive to do more content.
How is allowing multiple characters to work towards one achievement not hurting the main characters achievement progress? If an alternate character gets the toe ring then my main gets credit for it. That is gaining grounds on an achievement the main does not deserve. I don't want my other characters actions to affect where my main is in relation to achievements. If I want all my characters to be master fishermen I will get the achievement for each of them individually. I want that to remain an option at the very least.
You claim that your main "doesn't deserve it," but not everyone shares that point of view. Some people view achievements as things that THEY the player earn, and their characters as tools for getting those achievements. And some people view achievements as something that their character earns with them together, and thus they would be less likely to view that achievement as earned.
There are multiple points of view on achievements. People who view achievements as something a player earned will be MORE likely to run alts because they don't view as taking away from their overall progress, since for many of those people the goal is to have all the achievements some day. And they don't want to get one on something that is NOT their main because then they'd earn their achievements on the wrong character and it would hamper their account progress.
While the ones that view it as something a character earns are less likely to enjoy alts under an account wide system, a player that views it as as something a PLAYER earns are MORE likely to enjoy alts. And many such players have said that they feel more comfortable running alts now that this is coming because from their perspective their main character is no longer hurt by an achievement having been earned on the wrong character.3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
Getting the achievement and skill line progress are separate things.
At least half of the achievements in game are tied to skill points. I didn’t see anywhere where they said “some achievements.” I also didn’t see anything that said it would be shared titles only.
So which is it?
They said some achievements (an example exception was motif knowledge), but have not gotten into the finer details about how it will operate yet. Given that they sell the skill line progression separately, I doubt that you'd get them all for free suddenly automatically. They haven't said as much, but that's a pretty safe bet. It doesn't work that way with the closest existing system (antiquities), it would be a free update that nullifies a crown store item, and the skills are already separate to the achievements afaik.
Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2022 5:26AM0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
Getting the achievement and skill line progress are separate things.
At least half of the achievements in game are tied to skill points. I didn’t see anywhere where they said “some achievements.” I also didn’t see anything that said it would be shared titles only.
So which is it?
They said some achievements (an example exception was motif knowledge), but have not gotten into the finer details about how it will operate yet. Given that they sell the skill line progression separately, I doubt that you'd get them all for free suddenly automatically. They haven't said as much, but that's a pretty safe bet. It doesn't work that way with the closest existing system (antiquities), it would be a free update that nullifies a crown store item, and the skills are already separate to the achievements afaik.
So basically just shared titles then. That makes more sense. But even that seems weird. Why would you want to be Master Thief, if you don’t even steal?
0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
Getting the achievement and skill line progress are separate things.
At least half of the achievements in game are tied to skill points. I didn’t see anywhere where they said “some achievements.” I also didn’t see anything that said it would be shared titles only.
So which is it?
They said some achievements (an example exception was motif knowledge), but have not gotten into the finer details about how it will operate yet. Given that they sell the skill line progression separately, I doubt that you'd get them all for free suddenly automatically. They haven't said as much, but that's a pretty safe bet. It doesn't work that way with the closest existing system (antiquities), it would be a free update that nullifies a crown store item, and the skills are already separate to the achievements afaik.
So basically just shared titles then. That makes more sense. But even that seems weird. Why would you want to be Master Thief, if you don’t even steal?
I'd bet the RNG monster collectibles achievements would also be shared. Who says you'd use that title on a character that doesn't steal necessarily? I'm sure some people will use it to enhance roleplay. For some it will just sit unused until it's earned, or never get used regardless if the character has earned it or not. And you just completely ignore it as a cosmetic you technically own but don't use, same as your costumes or whatever.
Like I already did this so it don't apply, but I made a character explicitly for roleplaying a thief. In my head, she claims to be the illegitimate love child of Adusa-Daro and Razum-dar, though she's also a conwoman so nobody knows if that's actually true (but she certainly looks the part). All of her CP was immediately slotted into stealing, I gave her gear from my main crafter that was dedicated to stealing, and I run around just stealing stuff on her. If I had the title at the time, I'd have given her that too. Because she was built from the ground up to be a thief. I gave her a fun backstory, but honestly she was mostly just made because I wanted a thief. I have made a Khajiit thief since the days of Oblivion, and her purpose is to have one on my account for when I feel like stealing. I don't roleplay with her, just not my thing. But it's fun giving her that little backstory and only doing thief things.
Some people use titles as flex, some use it as just another cosmetic. Some a mix of the two. Some view it as something a player earns (I tend to think that way) and some that a character and them earn together. Some view them as utility, and some as a cosmetic trophy. And some a mix of both. I can only speak to my point of view, and the way I have witnessed others using them. But your POV on those things likely influences how you view these changes and whether or not you'd feel any awkwardness around using a title on a character that it hadn't been earned on.
I personally don't, because I view those things as achievements that the player earned, not the character. And I'd trust someone who has successfully run the content on any character (rather than being carried) to also complete on an alt, then someone who was didn't have the title at all. So even if I were the type to judge group entry on titles (I am not and don't base my decision on that at all), I would be reassured by their title regardless of the character they earned it on, because I know that person knows the mechanics well enough to get it done. But again, because when I see that title I think "This player has earned and experienced this," rather than "They did this on that character."Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2022 5:52AM2 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?
You do realize that the 5 classes and speccs only differ from each other in very minor ways. Mostly cosmetic.
Its always buffbuffdotdtodotswitchdotspammablespammablespammabledotbuffswitch wie LA between.
If you can do it on one class you can do it on all.Edited by Uvi_AUT on January 28, 2022 6:08AMRegistered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....2 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.
If you have all the achievements unlocked when you make a new character including titles and your sticker book is complete why would you ever run a dungeon which you need nothing of?
A few may but really no one will anymore. I know I wouldn't. I only run them now since my stickerbook is complete to get the achievement on an alt.
Old content is now gonna be dead content unless your random dungeon of the day takes you there or new players still need gear.
i don't understand this argument. you're talking about doing it maybe once more on an alt as if that's going to really impact the amount of times people do a dungeon.
if you're already running it enough to get all the gear and the achievements and all the motifs then you're doing what, 40+ runs?
why do you feel the need to do it more on alts at that point? hasn't that content done it's job already?
I explained it. I only run a dungeon once on a new alt now. With achievements account wide I will never run a dungeon again unless it's new or a random.
As I explained multiple times now, the only reason to run dungeons now for me is to get the achievement on an alt.0 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm in two minds about this:
Firstly, I think the protests about fake titles are absolutely ludicrous. We're not moths who, when receiving some stimulus are irretrievably fated to follow it through to our fiery end. It becomes very easy to know if someone's faking it. Besides, no one is doing this. You'd have to be an idiot to spend millions on a title for the purpose of sneaking into runs so demanding that title is the yardstick and hoping no one will notice it. I have never once encountered anything like this. What sort of people are you guys actually running with?
But the second thing is, its frustrating to see content creators, influencers and so-called community representatives loudly and repeatedly haranguing the developers who's ear their platform gives them. To hear developers come out and say "haha we know EVERYBODY wants this" is kinda lame, because those people are only representing their own echo chambers, and flogging it off as if their little world is obviously everybody.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on January 28, 2022 6:34AM0 -
RisenEclipse✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
I really don't think many people purchase skill tokens for achievement purposes... pretty sure they buy them because they don't want to go through the grind of leveling up that skill, and want to unlock the skill immediately. Which is their purpose. So the buying of tokens will by no means be effected by the new achievement system.5 -
There is no feature everyone will like, thats it. But saying its inherently bad is stupid. Some may like it, since it has been asked for so long. Some may not, since it may ruin roleplay (I personally cant see how, if you dont want a title you didnt earn with that chaarcter dont use it). I personally like it and its from the better features we got this year. Im kinda sad seing you can give anything to this community but and they will just whine. This will just go down a rabbit hole really fast and soon you will talk about you shd earn all 3600 cp for each character and likes of it. Non-Solo Achievements are worth nothing cuz you can always can get carried. And you get skins, costumes like the emperor one ect accountwide aynways (and its totally fine) so this wont change anything really.
If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.
"you can give anything to this community but and they will just whine"
Someone gives you a glass or arsenic you just going to smile and drink it or say hey I don't think drinking arsenic is a good idea? We are not whining. We are pointing out why we think this isn't a good idea.
There is some confusion and I really hope they don't let multiple characters work towards one achievement. I've seen some mention they do not play alternative characters in certain content because they want the achievement on their main. They say they would play other characters more if those characters worked towards that achievement.
If multiple characters could work towards the same achievement many players would have to shelve characters for a good deal of the activity. We want our character to earn the achievement and another character accidently getting an Ogre Toe Ring and that counting towards our mains achievement would undermine the way we wish to play.
If they are going to do this there needs to be a toggle so those of us that want the achievements earned by one character without help from other characters can choose to do so. I would be less opposed to the idea if I get the option to let my characters earn their achievements on their own.
I also feel titles should be character exclusive but that doesn't affect me so I'm not so strongly opposed to this idea. I still think it takes away incentive to repeat content and will be bad for long term health of the game. And just for the record I opposed dyes and all that other stuff being account wide. I understand why it was done but I think with achievements they have no impact on game play nor cosmetics so leave them character specific. Some achievements need to be difficult to obtain. That is what makes them worth achieving.
When a player comes here and announces they just got their 10th master fisherman the forums goes a bit crazy for that. This change makes that go away.
On principle, for every character of yours newly 50, you should only apply 1 CP each time you legitimately earn it on whatever alt it is you're levelling.
Afterall, what's the incentive if you use a pool of collected CP that other characters unjustifiably earnt on your new toons behalf?
Do you also only use motifs' that specific character has unlocked for the wardrobe also?
Imagine opposing the dye system...
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 28, 2022 7:07PM4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RisenEclipse wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
I really don't think many people purchase skill tokens for achievement purposes... pretty sure they buy them because they don't want to go through the grind of leveling up that skill, and want to unlock the skill immediately. Which is their purpose. So the buying of tokens will by no means be effected by the new achievement system.
Well, if it’s not a shared achievement, then it’s just a shared title. And if you have the achievement, then you would have Undaunted Mettle, Undaunted Command, and actually have all the skills mastered as well. The only requirement of the achievement sharer would be to have the necessary skill points available to purchase everything. Just like the service token.
Edited by Jaraal on January 28, 2022 6:27AM0 -
RisenEclipse✭✭✭✭✭RisenEclipse wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »StevieKingslayer wrote: »Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.
Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.
That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.
I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.
Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.
One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.
If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.
If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.
I really don't think many people purchase skill tokens for achievement purposes... pretty sure they buy them because they don't want to go through the grind of leveling up that skill, and want to unlock the skill immediately. Which is their purpose. So the buying of tokens will by no means be effected by the new achievement system.
Well, if it’s not a shared achievement, then it’s just a shared title. And if you have the achievement, then you would have Undaunted Mettle, Undaunted Command, and actually have all the skills mastered as well.
I don't think that's how that is going to work. With that logic all quests attached to achievements would be done to. So literally whole game competed for all characters. No, that's silly. You'll just have a global achievement to see what your characters have done, but it's not going to effect those characters by giving you skills and unlocking everything. The only thing that will change is that when you reach max level in a skill, you won't get a pop up message saying you got an achievement.0 -
Hamiltonmath✭✭✭No way should titles be account wide. The end game community is small enough as it is. They will kill it with this. As it is, I don't want to do TTT on a toon that already has it, and if ALL of them have it, well...I'll never do TTT again. Shoot, I'll never do VHOF or NHOF again.4
