Overland Content Feedback Thread

NeeScrolls

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Elsonso wrote: »

There are a lot of dungeons out there that I have only done in PUGs, and while I have done the quest, I have no idea what happened in that dungeon, other than the bosses got stomped.

Just of sheer curiosity: What's preventing you from re-running those same dungeons again on your own (slower) with a companion...or grouped with a friend who also wants to take the time?

Elsonso

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Normal is not story mode. Normal is "if this dungeon takes more than 30 seconds, the dungeon is too long" mode. I have been in some Fungal Grotto runs where I think that the swim to the boss was the longest part of the dungeon.

colossalvoids

Elsonso wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Normal is not story mode. Normal is "if this dungeon takes more than 30 seconds, the dungeon is too long" mode. I have been in some Fungal Grotto runs where I think that the swim to the boss was the longest part of the dungeon.

Pretty sure he means going alone porting in via shrines or going straight to the in-zone gates. That's how we're going solo since forever.

Elsonso

colossalvoids wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Normal is not story mode. Normal is "if this dungeon takes more than 30 seconds, the dungeon is too long" mode. I have been in some Fungal Grotto runs where I think that the swim to the boss was the longest part of the dungeon.

Pretty sure he means going alone porting in via shrines or going straight to the in-zone gates. That's how we're going solo since forever.

Yes, but I am talking about PUGs, which allows me to do the dungeon, work on my stickerbook, and get gold and transmute thingies, all in one neat package, once per day. I can solo dungeons, but I don't get transmute thingies for that, and this is what I need. I don't have the time to spend all day in dungeons, so I would like to do as much as possible in a single dungeon run. So, most dungeons are PUG dungeons, not me going in there solo for the story.

It would be cool to be able to consume the story in the dungeon without having to do it solo and miss out on all of the other incentives, or make everyone else wait while some NPC actor snails across the room, waxes poetic in a rambling speech, or both, before the quest can progress.

spartaxoxo

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Elsonso wrote: »

There are a lot of dungeons out there that I have only done in PUGs, and while I have done the quest, I have no idea what happened in that dungeon, other than the bosses got stomped.

Just of sheer curiosity: What's preventing you from re-running those same dungeons again on your own (slower) with a companion...or grouped with a friend who also wants to take the time?

Normal mode is not story and there are multiple dungeons with boss mechanics that prevent it being solo'ed entirely like Direfrost Keep. It's nothing more than players trying to force an alternative out of something that don't exists, just like unequipping your gear to make Overland harder. I support an official method for both so that it works a lot better at improving the player experience than just trying to force something to work with methods we currently have available.

Michaelkeir

My most memorable experience was the 1st time I battled Molag Bal back when I first started playing. It was a very hard fought fight. I struggled, I was popping potions, dodging, casting heals, it was a very challenging fight. I died a few times, but you know what, I enjoyed it. I felt a sense of accomplishment and it felt earned. I can name several other boss’s who I can remember that gave me a rush to fight.

Now a days overland doesn’t give me that same sense of accomplishment. I run vet dungeons (mostly DLC vet dungeons), and some vet trials but when I’m doing a zone quest, it feels more like an amusement park ride. When I fight an end of the year Daedric Prince, I want to be challenged.

I understand not everyone wants a challenge, but some of us do. And if we can get a different instanced zone that’s vet then I’d be happy. Don’t want to take away from those who don’t but we should have the option of vet overland.

NeeScrolls

colossalvoids wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Normal is not story mode. Normal is "if this dungeon takes more than 30 seconds, the dungeon is too long" mode. I have been in some Fungal Grotto runs where I think that the swim to the boss was the longest part of the dungeon.

Pretty sure he means going alone porting in via shrines or going straight to the in-zone gates. That's how we're going solo since forever.

Exactly ^

And also, @Elsonso : i'm just wondering why didn't you (nor anyone else on "your side" ) also answer/reply to my 2nd question?

spartaxoxo

NeeScrolls wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Normal is not story mode. Normal is "if this dungeon takes more than 30 seconds, the dungeon is too long" mode. I have been in some Fungal Grotto runs where I think that the swim to the boss was the longest part of the dungeon.

Pretty sure he means going alone porting in via shrines or going straight to the in-zone gates. That's how we're going solo since forever.

Exactly ^

And also, @Elsonso : i'm just wondering why didn't you (nor anyone else on "your side" ) also answer/reply to my 2nd question?

For me personally I didn't answer it because it presumes that I don't run the ones I can alone. I do. Nothing stops me but dungeons with mechanics that don't allow soloing because these dungeons aren't built to be soloed. I just happen to be able to solo most of them. So that's kinda why I felt just answering your first point served as a response from me to the whole thing.

I don't want to get too off topic so I'll just leave this link here

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/579181/normal-frostvault-storytime-with-bastian-and-why-we-need-a-story-mode#latest

You can understand my pov on it by reading through it. I changed my mind about it a bit so my last post on the thread vs first post is different.

NeeScrolls

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You can understand my pov on it by reading through it. I changed my mind about it a bit so my last post on the thread vs first post is different.

No worries and totally understandable yep.

Back on-topic, for anyone who hasn't read all 40 pages of this thread (including all of my posts therein) : My own mind sorta evolved throughout the pages of THIS thread and i eventually came to the conclusion that 'overland' content is just fine as it is currently.

And now back to your regularly scheduled forums...

Merllow

When I went through story quests. I felt a kind of gambling excitement when I passed the group locations of Craglorn. Of course, it is unlikely that new players will be able to master this with ease, but maybe it will give some thought.

Entegre

We have normal and veteran dungeons why shouldn’t we get veteran overland? Overland content is too easy with little to no rewards other than some rare useful sets that people tend to farm in public dungeons. The questing is always trivial with no risk of being hurt other than occasional fall damage.
Advices like “Go around naked/without skills/no cp” are not constructive. Any form of rewarding (including new achievements) and challenging overland will make questing and adventuring around enjoyable and meaningful.

Sylvermynx

Entegre wrote: »

We have normal and veteran dungeons why shouldn’t we get veteran overland? Overland content is too easy with little to no rewards other than some rare useful sets that people tend to farm in public dungeons. The questing is always trivial with no risk of being hurt other than occasional fall damage.
Advices like “Go around naked/without skills/no cp” are not constructive. Any form of rewarding (including new achievements) and challenging overland will make questing and adventuring around enjoyable and meaningful.

Not for everyone; I like overland the way it is, personally. I'm good with an optional veteran setup though.

Arrodisia

using less powerful gear or unequipping our gear/CP is a very constructive solution when combined with using no food and potions. It really does work.

Then we get to see the things some of the enemies can do when you can't kill them right away. Annoying push backs, freezes, negate, heavy attacks, charge, disappear and backstab etc. I do it on my characters all of the time and I enjoy it.

Only 8 of my 18 characters actually have their cp set.

We already have players splintered into different content. We don't really need more of it.

The only thing stopping someone from using this already baked in option is one's own ego... Fixing something that isn't broken when there are things which really could use fixing is a waste of resources. I'd rather see bugs be fixed, PvP in Cyro and the servers in general get the much needed performance fixes they need 1st. After that maybe, just maybe I'll feel different about it.

peacenote

I have posted in other threads on this topic but not yet in this one.

Skimming through, I must say that I wonder if any other MMO has inspired so much dedication that 40 pages of essays (and counting) about the the future of one kind of content could be generated over the span of a month and a half. You may all not agree on what you want to see, but you all have one thing in common- you care about the future of the game and must enjoy/like it. Myself included. It has been a long while but I remember my time on the WOW forums as being mostly toxic and few good discussions. The main AION forums are gone I think. I have no memory of posting or reading RIFT forums at all although I may have done. So, regardless if anything changes or not, everyone should take some heart from that.

A few random thoughts...

-I wonder how much crossover there is between people who want harder overland and people who actively avoid DLC vet dungeons
-I have seen enough threads come and go where NEW PLAYERS leave the game because it seems ridiculously easy that I do think something needs to be done.
-I agree that a survey to all active players would be useful, but only if it included a lot of demographic information... how long have you played? do you do vet trials? how frequently do you play per week? do you participate on battlegrounds? have you completed a vet arena? Etc etc. It is very hard to design truly helpful, non biased surveys. If not well-designed, they do not harm than good.

I do think that we all tend to be victims of our humanity. What I have seen, after playing many MMOs, is that MOST PEOPLE always choose the path that makes the best use of their time, and gives rewards via the quickest possible path. Now this is very much an MMO thing, because as it matures there is more and more content, all designed to keep you coming back, but ultimately too much for newer players to ever do all of it (after a certain point).

What that means is most players will do what is most efficient vs. what is more fun. They do this because they have a more ultimate goal in mind (buy something, conquer something, whatever).

That means that a) ZOS' data will always show that the "best" and "most popular" content is the efficient content and b) anything not heavily utilized is potentially a "waste" of dev resources, because MMOs need a lot of players to be successful.

Why do people flock to areas with events but the areas are ghost towns after? Why are there fake tanks and fake healers? Why do people want to avoid DLC dungeons? Why is min/maxing a thing? Why do people complain about game concepts that force... I mean encourage... you into PvE or PvP? It is because all those players are trying to be efficient in a game that is ever-growing and, due to this, requires efficiency to "keep up." Heck, this is beyond the ESO world. The real world is like this too.

Therefore, I don't believe a difficulty slider or optional "veteran" shards or anything that splits the playerbase would be good for the game. Not because it might not be well done or enjoyed by some. But because human nature shows that most players will keep the sliders on "easy." And introducing something complex, with choice, will result in most people picking "easy" - even people who wanted the harder option. You don't think you will- but you will. Which means adding this option will not make profits, keep a meaningful amount of players engaged when they otherwise would not have been, or in any way improve the health of the game. 5% or less of folks will try it, and even less will probably regularly use it.

Instead I think the only solution is to slowly raise the floor for overland to accommodate for power creep, so new players don't feel like their epic battles are over in .5 seconds, while still generally keeping the formula the same - harder content in instances, easier content in overland. Buff story bosses a little. Keep dungeons and trials out of the story arc. Re-balance the low cp buff a little.

But people who want hard options and/or instanced overland... I believe it is a careful what you wish for situation. It won't be good for the future of the game.

But it is too easy now. It needs to be made a little harder. Too much, and new players will get frustrated. Compromise and give options? It will result in little- used functionality which just takes away from new content which is imperative for the survival of an MMO.

In order to have harder content that is used enough to be worthwhile to make, that content must still be the most efficient way to level and get rewards in the game. If easier options exist, people will default to those most of the time, EVEN IF it's not as fun. You may not believe me, but I know it's true. <shrug>

FlopsyPrince

NeeScrolls wrote: »

*We're getting sorta off-topic here (overland, not under) but briefly...

Elsonso wrote: »

I would like to see "story mode" for the dungeons. .

That already exists. It's called normal mode.

Elsonso wrote: »

There are a lot of dungeons out there that I have only done in PUGs, and while I have done the quest, I have no idea what happened in that dungeon, other than the bosses got stomped.

Just of sheer curiosity: What's preventing you from re-running those same dungeons again on your own (slower) with a companion...or grouped with a friend who also wants to take the time?

While I have guilds with helpful people, they are not close and I cannot count on having them available when I want to do something like this.

Some may be me, but many of us do not know anyone closely in the game.

Sylvermynx

peacenote wrote: »

<snipped for brevity>

But it is too easy now. It needs to be made a little harder. Too much, and new players will get frustrated. Compromise and give options? It will result in little- used functionality which just takes away from new content which is imperative for the survival of an MMO.

But who is to determine what "a little harder" actually is? I'm not a new player - but I do have issues which prevent me from "managing" combat as easily as many: I'm old (74 soon) and my reflexes haven't been good enough for this game for many years now; twitch combat was never anything I found fun in any case; and my only available connection is satellite - with the attendant high ping which means nothing really works the "way it should work" for people with great connections.

I love this game. I spend a LOT of money on this game. I don't want this game to be completely out of reach for me - and even a "little harder overland" will probably accomplish that....

Yes, I would try it. And considering what I know about the game (and believe me, The Deadlands is already way too hard for me....) I would be devastated to discover that the "little bit harder" would mean I couldn't play any more.

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

<snipped for brevity>

But it is too easy now. It needs to be made a little harder. Too much, and new players will get frustrated. Compromise and give options? It will result in little- used functionality which just takes away from new content which is imperative for the survival of an MMO.

But who is to determine what "a little harder" actually is? I'm not a new player - but I do have issues which prevent me from "managing" combat as easily as many: I'm old (74 soon) and my reflexes haven't been good enough for this game for many years now; twitch combat was never anything I found fun in any case; and my only available connection is satellite - with the attendant high ping which means nothing really works the "way it should work" for people with great connections.

I love this game. I spend a LOT of money on this game. I don't want this game to be completely out of reach for me - and even a "little harder overland" will probably accomplish that....

Yes, I would try it. And considering what I know about the game (and believe me, The Deadlands is already way too hard for me....) I would be devastated to discover that the "little bit harder" would mean I couldn't play any more.

Things like this is why I'm so against forced upgrades. This game attracts such a wide variety of people and skill levels, and all of us have content that we can do! I think that's pretty awesome. And I wouldn't want to see this game lose that. For me, this is one of the most complete games so to speak that I have played. It has a bit of everything that I look for in other games. Usually I have to pick between like primarily story driven games that aren't that hard for me personally, and ones that I play to give me a challenge. And with this game, I just don't. Instead of playing different games, I play different activities. The only thing is I wish the PVP was a bit better. That's the only part that don't work that well for me, although it's very, very occasionally fun with friends. Mostly when I want PVP, I play other games.

This is the game I have played the longest by a country mile precisely because of the wide range of types of content.

Sylvermynx

@spartaxoxo - if I could give you a million awesomes, I would....

Cloudtrader

I already have to log off because my hands hurt after doing a few dungeons or a trial, which is why I don't do them very often. I DO, however, play overland for hours without hurting myself and I fear that if overland was made "harder" then that would not be the case anymore.

Why is it wrong for overland to be "easy"? There are already hard things to do in this game, even hard solo things (arenas). Just give the people who want harder things more of what they want and leave the easy stuff for those of us who want the easy stuff. I won't play this game anymore if I have no options to play it without pain.

angrylizard

As a person who has played quite a few mmo's, the overworld in this game is way too easy and I am up for any change Zos does to make it engaging again.

SilverBride

I've played quite a few MMO's too, and every single one had easy questing zones. This is the norm. Questing zones are easy and challenges are in dungeons and trials, or raids as many call them. There is no reason why this is not acceptable in ESO when it's fine everywhere else.

angrylizard

SilverBride wrote: »

I've played quite a few MMO's too, and every single one had easy questing zones. This is the norm. Questing zones are easy and challenges are in dungeons and trials, or raids as many call them. There is no reason why this is not acceptable in ESO when it's fine everywhere else.

And, am saying this is way easier than any mmo I have played. It feels like I have a max level wow character going into a level 10 area in this game.

But, if people want to keep it as is that’s fine, but don’t be surprised when endgamers like myself go else were.

SilverBride

angrylizard wrote: »

But, if people want to keep it as is that’s fine, but don’t be surprised when endgamers like myself go else were.

Players come and go in every MMO. They get burned out, try the newest shiny, come back, leave again. It's the nature of the beast.

Although I don't know why overland would run out end gamers, when there is a ton of end game content in this game.

angrylizard

SilverBride wrote: »

angrylizard wrote: »

But, if people want to keep it as is that’s fine, but don’t be surprised when endgamers like myself go else were.

Players come and go in every MMO. They get burned out, try the newest shiny, come back, leave again. It's the nature of the beast.

Although I don't know why overland would run out end gamers, when there is a ton of end game content in this game.

Meh, whatever am just saying my piece so zos knows there is another player that don’t like the game being a level 10 zone.

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

angrylizard wrote: »

But, if people want to keep it as is that’s fine, but don’t be surprised when endgamers like myself go else were.

Although I don't know why overland would run out end gamers, when there is a ton of end game content in this game.

It's an illusion as it depends on your perspective, might be true for a player not really involved in that kind of play or progressing through but some of us doing virtually the same content for years, even worse for people going 100% each dlc first week or two. While general audience have all the game and this same group content as "endgamers" but in normal difficulty for them, that's what triggering some people here.

Yes, normal/overland is also "for everyone" here but saying there's a ton of content depends strictly on how and for how long you yourself consuming said content.

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

angrylizard wrote: »

But, if people want to keep it as is that’s fine, but don’t be surprised when endgamers like myself go else were.

Although I don't know why overland would run out end gamers, when there is a ton of end game content in this game.

It's an illusion as it depends on your perspective, might be true for a player not really involved in that kind of play or progressing through but some of us doing virtually the same content for years, even worse for people going 100% each dlc first week or two. While general audience have all the game and this same group content as "endgamers" but in normal difficulty for them, that's what triggering some people here.

Yes, normal/overland is also "for everyone" here but saying there's a ton of content depends strictly on how and for how long you yourself consuming said content.

If there was a veteran overland then end gamers would play it repeatedly, and use it for every alt they level from here forward, and it would become the same content being done for years just as the current end game content is for them now.

Veteran overland won't make everything fresh and new again. It's still the same story and the same quests only it just takes longer to kill things.

SilverBride

angrylizard wrote: »

Meh, whatever am just saying my piece so zos knows there is another player that don’t like the game being a level 10 zone.

Where are level 10's supposed to go to level if overland was not a level 10 zone?

angrylizard

SilverBride wrote: »

angrylizard wrote: »

Meh, whatever am just saying my piece so zos knows there is another player that don’t like the game being a level 10 zone.

Where are level 10's supposed to go to level if overland was not a level 10 zone?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If you look what I said before you may understand where I was coming from.

angrylizard wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I've played quite a few MMO's too, and every single one had easy questing zones. This is the norm. Questing zones are easy and challenges are in dungeons and trials, or raids as many call them. There is no reason why this is not acceptable in ESO when it's fine everywhere else.

And, am saying this is way easier than any mmo I have played. It feels like I have a max level wow character going into a level 10 area in this game.

Vulkunne

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

<snipped for brevity>

But it is too easy now. It needs to be made a little harder. Too much, and new players will get frustrated. Compromise and give options? It will result in little- used functionality which just takes away from new content which is imperative for the survival of an MMO.

But who is to determine what "a little harder" actually is? I'm not a new player - but I do have issues which prevent me from "managing" combat as easily as many: I'm old (74 soon) and my reflexes haven't been good enough for this game for many years now; twitch combat was never anything I found fun in any case; and my only available connection is satellite - with the attendant high ping which means nothing really works the "way it should work" for people with great connections.

I love this game. I spend a LOT of money on this game. I don't want this game to be completely out of reach for me - and even a "little harder overland" will probably accomplish that....

Yes, I would try it. And considering what I know about the game (and believe me, The Deadlands is already way too hard for me....) I would be devastated to discover that the "little bit harder" would mean I couldn't play any more.

Things like this is why I'm so against forced upgrades. This game attracts such a wide variety of people and skill levels, and all of us have content that we can do! I think that's pretty awesome. And I wouldn't want to see this game lose that. For me, this is one of the most complete games so to speak that I have played. It has a bit of everything that I look for in other games. Usually I have to pick between like primarily story driven games that aren't that hard for me personally, and ones that I play to give me a challenge. And with this game, I just don't. Instead of playing different games, I play different activities. The only thing is I wish the PVP was a bit better. That's the only part that don't work that well for me, although it's very, very occasionally fun with friends. Mostly when I want PVP, I play other games.

This is the game I have played the longest by a country mile precisely because of the wide range of types of content.

Reading thru this, the thing is you have a wide variety of people and skill levels but the content is not completely there for those on I want to say a more 'confident' skill level than other players. I think that's why people are asking for the ability to have content closer to the skill level that meets the demands of their build. This also would make the game/stories more interesting and actually 'come to life' in more of a lore-friendly manner. Anyone who has played Oblivion understands just what I mean.

I've got a buddy that I run trials with who kills most overland mobs in less than 2 light attacks. Yes, it's absolutely crazy how fast he wipes everything in overland. I have a build similar to his and so when fighting thru quests, and the storyline boss, its so easy to very quickly eviscerate what from the quest sounded like was supposed to be a challenging fight. Overland combat in general just does not feel like its on my level or the appropriate engagement for my vet build. Its for this fact me and my guild usually just stick to doing Trials. We would PvP more but the lag makes things miserable.

This is why some games have different difficulty modes, its a concept that has been widely accepted for many years (across many different games) and there are thousands of gamers out there who enjoy these options. I do agree its not something for everyone, however as players grow and adapt, I'm sure many of them wish to face enemies that are the appropriate challenge for their skill set. I would think incorporating this into eso (when time and resources permit) should be relatively similar to the changes made from the One Tamriel patch.

I would think at this point the game would have already allowed for this in some way.

spartaxoxo

Vulkunne wrote: »

This is why some games have different difficulty modes, its a concept that has been widely accepted for many years (across many different games) and there are thousands of gamers out there who enjoy these options. I do agree its not something for everyone, however as players grow and adapt, I'm sure many of them wish to face enemies that are the appropriate challenge for their skill set. I would think incorporating this into eso (when time and resources permit) should be relatively similar to the changes made from the One Tamriel patch.

I would think at this point the game would have already allowed for this in some way.

A lot of games with different difficulty options are single player games where you don't have to care about splitting people up. Or they have a lot of instanced content and then centralized hubs for people to meet. As an MMO, it is different. It can absolutely hurt the health of the game if new players experience ghost towns and can't get help. And they don't have friends and guilds yet. This is why I'm moreso in favor the slider mentioned a few pages back.

I know it would feel kinda weird to see someone who's not debuffed killing stuff faster than you, but it's a lot better than a new player getting the wrong impression and thinking this game is a ghost town.

We simply need places for these people to meet people and make new friends and guilds. And Overland is by far the place that mixing can happen.