Overland Content Feedback Thread

Sylvermynx

If optional, works for me. If not.... well, I won't be playing. I have enough trouble killing quest bosses as it is now.

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is what veteran dungeons, trials and arenas are for.

You get overland, normal dungeons, trials and arenas. You get a lot of stuff yearly. We get 4 dungeons and a trial..... And that gets repetitive really really quickly. There's a massive imbalance for veteran players who want difficulty.

Just because other MMO's have their storyline easy, doesn't mean we should stick to that plan.

EVERYONE gets overland, normal dungeons, trials and arenas. NO ONE is excluded from using them.

But players who aren't geared and experienced enough ARE excluded from veteran content because other players will just kick them from the group if they don't live up to their standards.

Who is excluding them from that content? You can farm gear in normals, watch guides on YT, practice on target dummy in other players homes (a lot of guilds provides that). This argument hold the same value as saying "vet players are not excluded from overland, even if they dont like it because it is trivial". Casuals are not exluded from anything, they just need to work if they want to participate. Only small % of casual playerbase won't be able to do so because of physical limitations.
ZOS these days works really hard to smaller the gap between floor and ceiling. You can perform 80k+ on trial dummy on any class with julianos + mother sorrow and okayish rotation after couple hours of training. And it is sufficient to do most vet content in game currently.
Nobody excludes those players from learning how to play vet to join vet content

Players do get kicked from groups if they aren't living up to other's standards. Where is a player supposed to get the best gear and more importantly learn the mechanics of veteran content other than in veteran content?

But my point was that overland is NOT just for the casual player. It is for EVERYONE.

All eso content is not gated behind any restrictions except cp level or dlc ownership. I already told you that you can get 80k+ with crafted + overland gear. Kilt (the most powerful mythic) require one lead from dungeon that can be done on normal, bashei normal vs perfected is the difference of 129 weapon/spell dmg. You can slot normal bashei/medusa OR mother sorrow/kilt and normal maelstrom staff without visiting vet instances even once. That setup allows you to do 100k+ on trial dummy on each class with good rotation.
Vet content in eso is for everyone who is willing to spend some time on skill development/gear farming. It is the most accessible end game content from all mmos on the market currently.
My argument holds is the same value wise as yours. Even more as it is easy to increase your performance (you just need to spend some time on some activities). It is extremely hard to dull your abilities to the level you can enjoy overland without the feeling that you are treated like a child.

You are saying that casuals can just stop being casual and spend weeks/months perfecting their gear and rotations to turn into vet players. And that because casual players can turn into vet players, that means a casual player can do that content, completely ignoring that they aren't a casual player anymore. Only vet players can do that content.

The people who said to unequip gear, which almost nobody suggested, are in comparison asking you to do a 30 second task that changes absolutely nothing else about the way you play and requires no additional work or learning.

So no its not the same level of argument, even if that was the argument being made (which it isn't). False Equivalency.

It would be false equivalency if not the fact that many players here said that not cp and gear are a problem (multiple ppl feel that content is trivial even with only weapon and no cp on low level char).

That's not relevant to it being a false equivalency. It is a false equivalency to state that vet content is for everyone in the same way that casual content is for everyone.

Vet content has a physical and playtime barrier to being capable of being completed. And casual content does not. As you said, even someone who doesn't know how to block or heal can do it.

I did not state that vet overland is a false equivalency and in fact stated that vet players needed a way to increase difficulty.

Franchise408

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You stated there should be quests for which grouping is required, and I disagreed.

Then why does it matter if the playerbase "gets split" or not?

Bane_Andeddu

Bodycounter wrote: »

Quintessence: the overland content is generally too easy and not challenging enough. Enemies should not be pure damage sponges and need some interesting mechanics to play around. So just doubling their health and/or damage would be very boring and not satisfying.

I personally love questing in this game especially with a friend of mine. The main problem is that every enemy instantly dies when im touching it and even enemies that are meant to be a real threat in the story will die within seconds. I just want the option to play the content in „veteran difficulty“ to be much more immersed in the story. I don’t need any extra loot or something.

The current state completely sucks away the joy of questing especially for my friend (she’s still new) who just sees everything die or me completely being afk.

There should be a vet mode for overland zones

Bane_Andeddu

Can you please make a vet mode for overland?

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You stated there should be quests for which grouping is required, and I disagreed.

Then why does it matter if the playerbase "gets split" or not?

New people need to see the game is not a ghost town, people need help with World Bosses and World Events, and if they are really new sometimes the public dungeons group events. New people also need to talk and meet players that are good so that they can get good.

This interaction is vital to keeping the playerbase from shrinking as new people replace the old. Games that get too top heavy end up with those kinds of issues.

Arthtur

I think we should get a new thread already. There is no way ppl will read 40+ pages and then start talking. Right now there is 1 player who jumps in, says that he want/dont want X and the discusion is going back to the begining. 10th time.

We already have the most important "worries" from casual players:

1) Casual players forced to do more difficult stuff.
2) Spliting the playerbase.
3) Rewards locked behind hard content.

Of course there were more but i think these 3 were the most common ones. So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

Its a game and every player deserves to have fun.

So i hope we will get a new thread just for ideas. At this point i think there is enough ppl interested in harder overland to give it a shot.

SilverBride

Arthtur wrote: »

I think we should get a new thread already.

This thread was started because frequent new threads on the subject was creating a negative experience for many posters. Starting a new thread would just bring back the same problem that this thread was created to address.

If someone comes to this thread later in the discussion their feedback is still valid, whether their view has already been discussed or not.

Harvokaan

I'm happy that this thread have 40+ pages as this means the problem with overland is important for many different players and there is a bigger chance some devs might look at it. Previously ppl said that this problem is insignificant and nobody except small amount of players have problem with trivial difficulty

SilverBride

Harvokaan wrote: »

I'm happy that this thread have 40+ pages as this means the problem with overland is important for many different players and there is a bigger chance some devs might look at it. Previously ppl said that this problem is insignificant and nobody except small amount of players have problem with trivial difficulty

The length of this thread doesn't indicate that many players want more difficult overland. Many of the posts in this thread are speaking out against it. And many, including some who do want more difficulty, are against a separate veteran overland.

spartaxoxo

Arthtur wrote: »

So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

We need new suggestions.

I currently am drawing a blank, but I would definitely like to see some more besides just debuffs or a separate instance. There's got to be more stuff like challenge banners that could help. Everyone liked those.

Arthtur

SilverBride wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

I think we should get a new thread already.

This thread was started because frequent new threads on the subject was creating a negative experience for many posters. Starting a new thread would just bring back the same problem that this thread was created to address.

If someone comes to this thread later in the discussion their feedback is still valid, whether their view has already been discussed or not.

I wrote that new thread for ideas only would be nice. How many ppl saw the ideas that were posted here? 10? 15? Or maybe with some luck 20? Or maybe we should still talk about if there is enough ppl who wants it?

I never said that new feedback isnt valuable. Where did u get that from? Because i dont want to see the loop for the 11th time? Sorry but for my this thread is rather important and i dont want it to die because the same ppl are talking about the same thing over and over again.

Right now we are back to the topic of splitting the playerbase. Again. Talking about the same thing for x time isnt constructive imo.

Parasaurolophus

Harvokaan wrote: »

I'm happy that this thread have 40+ pages as this means the problem with overland is important for many different players and there is a bigger chance some devs might look at it. Previously ppl said that this problem is insignificant and nobody except small amount of players have problem with trivial difficulty

I would not be so optimistic. Not many people wrote in this thread. Basically, this is a big dispute between several players. However, I think that there are a lot of people who are not happy with the state of the overland.

Arthtur wrote: »

I think we should get a new thread already. There is no way ppl will read 40+ pages and then start talking. Right now there is 1 player who jumps in, says that he want/dont want X and the discusion is going back to the begining. 10th time.

We already have the most important "worries" from casual players:

1) Casual players forced to do more difficult stuff.
2) Spliting the playerbase.
3) Rewards locked behind hard content.

Of course there were more but i think these 3 were the most common ones. So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

Its a game and every player deserves to have fun.

So i hope we will get a new thread just for ideas. At this point i think there is enough ppl interested in harder overland to give it a shot.

Here are some of the main complaints about the current overland:
1) Mobs are absurdly easy. I have not seen this in any other game. This is ridiculous.
2) Quests are trivial. Talk to the marker, go further, click on the marker, go further, talk to the marker and so on. Yes, even in the new annual letter, Rich says that ZoS gives us stories. But please ... The game is more like a visual novel than an MMO or even an RPG. This is not at all what we expect.
3) Dead zones. After we finish all the quests at the location in 5-6 hours, we have absolutely no incentive to return there. I would like the zone to be something more than just a big decoration for questing.

SilverBride

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Here are some of the main complaints about the current overland:
1) Mobs are absurdly easy. I have not seen this in any other game. This is ridiculous.

They are easy in WoW, they were easy in Rift, there are many many MMO's that have easy overland questing zones and mobs.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

2) Quests are trivial. Talk to the marker, go further, click on the marker, go further, talk to the marker and so on. Yes, even in the new annual letter, Rich says that ZoS gives us stories. But please ... The game is more like a visual novel than an MMO or even an RPG. This is not at all what we expect.

These other MMO's have quest markers, too.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

3) Dead zones. After we finish all the quests at the location in 5-6 hours, we have absolutely no incentive to return there. I would like the zone to be something more than just a big decoration for questing.

Overland IS for questing, and telling a story. That is its purpose. It is not meant to be challenging content.

Arthtur

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

We need new suggestions.

I currently am drawing a blank, but I would definitely like to see some more besides just debuffs or a separate instance. There's got to be more stuff like challenge banners that could help. Everyone liked those.

There were ideas about debuff food, sliders, banners, diffrent instance etc. Each of these ideas has + and -. I think we really need a place where all of the informations are in 1 place so ppl can focus on ideas and not talking whats is good or bad about X. Thats why i wanted a new thread as it would be the easiest. All the informations in first post so easy to find.

spartaxoxo

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

I'm happy that this thread have 40+ pages as this means the problem with overland is important for many different players and there is a bigger chance some devs might look at it. Previously ppl said that this problem is insignificant and nobody except small amount of players have problem with trivial difficulty

I would not be so optimistic. Not many people wrote in this thread. Basically, this is a big dispute between several players. However, I think that there are a lot of people who are not happy with the state of the overland.

Arthtur wrote: »

I think we should get a new thread already. There is no way ppl will read 40+ pages and then start talking. Right now there is 1 player who jumps in, says that he want/dont want X and the discusion is going back to the begining. 10th time.

We already have the most important "worries" from casual players:

1) Casual players forced to do more difficult stuff.
2) Spliting the playerbase.
3) Rewards locked behind hard content.

Of course there were more but i think these 3 were the most common ones. So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

Its a game and every player deserves to have fun.

So i hope we will get a new thread just for ideas. At this point i think there is enough ppl interested in harder overland to give it a shot.

Here are some of the main complaints about the current overland:
1) Mobs are absurdly easy. I have not seen this in any other game. This is ridiculous.
2) Quests are trivial. Talk to the marker, go further, click on the marker, go further, talk to the marker and so on. Yes, even in the new annual letter, Rich says that ZoS gives us stories. But please ... The game is more like a visual novel than an MMO or even an RPG. This is not at all what we expect.
3) Dead zones. After we finish all the quests at the location in 5-6 hours, we have absolutely no incentive to return there. I would like the zone to be something more than just a big decoration for questing.

Number 3 I really agree with and it's the primary reason I worry about splitting the playerbase. Zones that are super populated, I am sure new players would be able to find help or wouldn't getting a bad impression if some people were split off into a vet overland. But what about zones where there might 3-4 players online at the time?

If a Vet Overland came with some way to ensure that the normal overland wasn't dead (and making mobs harder in vet or giving special rewards to vet doesn't do that for normal) then I'd definitely be more open to that as a solution.

I just know that the playerbase tends to start shrinking once new and casual players start spreading the dreaded feedback "game is dead," regardless of the truth of the words in that moment.

spartaxoxo

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

We need new suggestions.

I currently am drawing a blank, but I would definitely like to see some more besides just debuffs or a separate instance. There's got to be more stuff like challenge banners that could help. Everyone liked those.

There were ideas about debuff food, sliders, banners, diffrent instance etc. Each of these ideas has + and -. I think we really need a place where all of the informations are in 1 place so ppl can focus on ideas and not talking whats is good or bad about X. Thats why i wanted a new thread as it would be the easiest. All the informations in first post so easy to find.

I had a post somewhere compiling all the ideas that I personally liked but it didn't really generate much discussion.

Edit

Okay there it is and a couple of other ones that I really liked.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

The difficulty is what they can do about it, as I dont believe a redo of the entire old overland is a realistic solution.

Agreed 100%

I'd like to see

*Debuff food
*Challenge Banner for Story Bosses
*Daedric Rifts buffed (random event in old overland could cause vet mobs to spawn. These are easily avoided)
*A Single New Zone that's like Craglorn with a completely standalone story and a dungeon. Maybe replace one of the dungeon dlcs with this. See if it would be popular. If it's more popular than a full dungeon dlc then maybe one of the dungeon dlcs going forward could be a small adventure zone with only 1 new dungeon instead.

Vaoh wrote: »

I think the issue would be solved if there was a new section under Options > Gameplay for this.

Difficulty Slider

Debilitation Potency
“Apply Debilitation onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Increases your Damage Taken, reduces your Damage Dealt, and reduces your Healing Taken by the following percentage.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Allied Healing
“Apply Debilitation II onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Reduces the amount of Healing Dealt you provide to your pets and allies.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Difficulty Scenario
“Determines the scenarios in which Debilitation and Debilitation II are deactivated. Note: Both effects will already deactivate in Duels, PvP areas, and any content which has a Veteran counterpart.”
Slider List: None, Public Dungeons, World Events, World Bosses, (any mix of the three).

No extra rewards. No need to swap out all of your hard earned gear/skills/CP. This is the only way to go about this situation and make everyone happy imo.

XomRhoK wrote: »

Partly agree. Debuffing player not very good option from perception of player, players moslty want to become powerfull, not weaker, but in numbers and effect on combat there is no difference from debuffing player and buffing enemies. For example, player have damage 2, creature have 8 HP, player kill creature in 4 hits, you want to prolonge fight in two times you can debuff player by decreasing his damage to 1, or you can "scale" creature to 16 HP, same result. But players just don't want to debuff themselves and it's understandable. Debuffing is just a method to achieve result and it suggested because it is easier to implement, no need to mock player that he were debuffed. Debuff will be invisible for player, and it more of the wording and and getting right attitude. For example
- Overland Veteran: Rumors about your adventures are widely known, all enemies will fight against you with additional fervor, they will deal double damage against you and resist against your attacks twice as good (+100% damage done to you and +50% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

- Overland Veteran Hard Mode: Every citizen of Tamriel know your name and deeds, all enemies will fight for their lives against you, they will deal quadruple damage against you and resist against your attacks four times better (+300% damage done to you and +75% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

With smoth progression difficulty sliders it will be different, but you can see the idea.
Before i think for myself on scaling mobs, smart scaling depending on number of players and their power, but i come to one aspect that can't be avoided, in my opinion, it's a AOE attacks of the mobs. Single attacks can be scaled depending on who monster attack, but AOE can't so it will be too weak to not kill weak players, or to powerfull and will one shot weaker players. Debuffing players individually have no such problem and much easier to implement.

Arthtur

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

We need new suggestions.

I currently am drawing a blank, but I would definitely like to see some more besides just debuffs or a separate instance. There's got to be more stuff like challenge banners that could help. Everyone liked those.

There were ideas about debuff food, sliders, banners, diffrent instance etc. Each of these ideas has + and -. I think we really need a place where all of the informations are in 1 place so ppl can focus on ideas and not talking whats is good or bad about X. Thats why i wanted a new thread as it would be the easiest. All the informations in first post so easy to find.

I had a post somewhere compiling all the ideas that I personally liked but it didn't really generate much discussion.

Edit

Okay there it is and a couple of other ones that I really liked.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

The difficulty is what they can do about it, as I dont believe a redo of the entire old overland is a realistic solution.

Agreed 100%

I'd like to see

*Debuff food
*Challenge Banner for Story Bosses
*Daedric Rifts buffed (random event in old overland could cause vet mobs to spawn. These are easily avoided)
*A Single New Zone that's like Craglorn with a completely standalone story and a dungeon. Maybe replace one of the dungeon dlcs with this. See if it would be popular. If it's more popular than a full dungeon dlc then maybe one of the dungeon dlcs going forward could be a small adventure zone with only 1 new dungeon instead.

Vaoh wrote: »

I think the issue would be solved if there was a new section under Options > Gameplay for this.

Difficulty Slider

Debilitation Potency
“Apply Debilitation onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Increases your Damage Taken, reduces your Damage Dealt, and reduces your Healing Taken by the following percentage.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Allied Healing
“Apply Debilitation II onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Reduces the amount of Healing Dealt you provide to your pets and allies.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Difficulty Scenario
“Determines the scenarios in which Debilitation and Debilitation II are deactivated. Note: Both effects will already deactivate in Duels, PvP areas, and any content which has a Veteran counterpart.”
Slider List: None, Public Dungeons, World Events, World Bosses, (any mix of the three).

No extra rewards. No need to swap out all of your hard earned gear/skills/CP. This is the only way to go about this situation and make everyone happy imo.

XomRhoK wrote: »

Partly agree. Debuffing player not very good option from perception of player, players moslty want to become powerfull, not weaker, but in numbers and effect on combat there is no difference from debuffing player and buffing enemies. For example, player have damage 2, creature have 8 HP, player kill creature in 4 hits, you want to prolonge fight in two times you can debuff player by decreasing his damage to 1, or you can "scale" creature to 16 HP, same result. But players just don't want to debuff themselves and it's understandable. Debuffing is just a method to achieve result and it suggested because it is easier to implement, no need to mock player that he were debuffed. Debuff will be invisible for player, and it more of the wording and and getting right attitude. For example
- Overland Veteran: Rumors about your adventures are widely known, all enemies will fight against you with additional fervor, they will deal double damage against you and resist against your attacks twice as good (+100% damage done to you and +50% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

- Overland Veteran Hard Mode: Every citizen of Tamriel know your name and deeds, all enemies will fight for their lives against you, they will deal quadruple damage against you and resist against your attacks four times better (+300% damage done to you and +75% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

With smoth progression difficulty sliders it will be different, but you can see the idea.
Before i think for myself on scaling mobs, smart scaling depending on number of players and their power, but i come to one aspect that can't be avoided, in my opinion, it's a AOE attacks of the mobs. Single attacks can be scaled depending on who monster attack, but AOE can't so it will be too weak to not kill weak players, or to powerfull and will one shot weaker players. Debuffing players individually have no such problem and much easier to implement.

Each of these have something interesting. Personally i would start with something simple like Banners for Story and World bosses + Debuff food for even harder challenge. If we start with this then we can see how many ppl are interested in this without "wasting" too much time on creating this.

Well i wouldnt mind if Craglorn would get a rework again :x

Harvokaan

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

We need new suggestions.

I currently am drawing a blank, but I would definitely like to see some more besides just debuffs or a separate instance. There's got to be more stuff like challenge banners that could help. Everyone liked those.

There were ideas about debuff food, sliders, banners, diffrent instance etc. Each of these ideas has + and -. I think we really need a place where all of the informations are in 1 place so ppl can focus on ideas and not talking whats is good or bad about X. Thats why i wanted a new thread as it would be the easiest. All the informations in first post so easy to find.

I had a post somewhere compiling all the ideas that I personally liked but it didn't really generate much discussion.

Edit

Okay there it is and a couple of other ones that I really liked.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

The difficulty is what they can do about it, as I dont believe a redo of the entire old overland is a realistic solution.

Agreed 100%

I'd like to see

*Debuff food
*Challenge Banner for Story Bosses
*Daedric Rifts buffed (random event in old overland could cause vet mobs to spawn. These are easily avoided)
*A Single New Zone that's like Craglorn with a completely standalone story and a dungeon. Maybe replace one of the dungeon dlcs with this. See if it would be popular. If it's more popular than a full dungeon dlc then maybe one of the dungeon dlcs going forward could be a small adventure zone with only 1 new dungeon instead.

Vaoh wrote: »

I think the issue would be solved if there was a new section under Options > Gameplay for this.

Difficulty Slider

Debilitation Potency
“Apply Debilitation onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Increases your Damage Taken, reduces your Damage Dealt, and reduces your Healing Taken by the following percentage.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Allied Healing
“Apply Debilitation II onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Reduces the amount of Healing Dealt you provide to your pets and allies.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Difficulty Scenario
“Determines the scenarios in which Debilitation and Debilitation II are deactivated. Note: Both effects will already deactivate in Duels, PvP areas, and any content which has a Veteran counterpart.”
Slider List: None, Public Dungeons, World Events, World Bosses, (any mix of the three).

No extra rewards. No need to swap out all of your hard earned gear/skills/CP. This is the only way to go about this situation and make everyone happy imo.

XomRhoK wrote: »

Partly agree. Debuffing player not very good option from perception of player, players moslty want to become powerfull, not weaker, but in numbers and effect on combat there is no difference from debuffing player and buffing enemies. For example, player have damage 2, creature have 8 HP, player kill creature in 4 hits, you want to prolonge fight in two times you can debuff player by decreasing his damage to 1, or you can "scale" creature to 16 HP, same result. But players just don't want to debuff themselves and it's understandable. Debuffing is just a method to achieve result and it suggested because it is easier to implement, no need to mock player that he were debuffed. Debuff will be invisible for player, and it more of the wording and and getting right attitude. For example
- Overland Veteran: Rumors about your adventures are widely known, all enemies will fight against you with additional fervor, they will deal double damage against you and resist against your attacks twice as good (+100% damage done to you and +50% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

- Overland Veteran Hard Mode: Every citizen of Tamriel know your name and deeds, all enemies will fight for their lives against you, they will deal quadruple damage against you and resist against your attacks four times better (+300% damage done to you and +75% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

With smoth progression difficulty sliders it will be different, but you can see the idea.
Before i think for myself on scaling mobs, smart scaling depending on number of players and their power, but i come to one aspect that can't be avoided, in my opinion, it's a AOE attacks of the mobs. Single attacks can be scaled depending on who monster attack, but AOE can't so it will be too weak to not kill weak players, or to powerfull and will one shot weaker players. Debuffing players individually have no such problem and much easier to implement.

Each of these have something interesting. Personally i would start with something simple like Banners for Story and World bosses + Debuff food for even harder challenge. If we start with this then we can see how many ppl are interested in this without "wasting" too much time on creating this.

Well i wouldnt mind if Craglorn would get a rework again :x

Sounds okayish. I would prefer them to introduce vet instances for new content and then check how popular they are (and if they are popular, reintroduce it to the older content). Banners are also ok.
I'm against debuff food as for me it is not a good solution and is prefered mostly by players who won't even consider themself playing harder overland.

SilverBride

Harvokaan wrote: »

I'm against debuff food as for me it is not a good solution and is prefered mostly by players who won't even consider themself playing harder overland.

Just because some players don't want harder content and won't use a debuff food doesn't mean they can't see the pros and cons of it. Everything that happens in this game affects others, whether they take part in it or not.

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

So i think we should talk how to implement harder things in overland that will be optional, wont split the playerbase and with the way for weaker players to get the rewards. If we gonna talk about the same thing over and over again we wont get anywhere.

We need new suggestions.

I currently am drawing a blank, but I would definitely like to see some more besides just debuffs or a separate instance. There's got to be more stuff like challenge banners that could help. Everyone liked those.

There were ideas about debuff food, sliders, banners, diffrent instance etc. Each of these ideas has + and -. I think we really need a place where all of the informations are in 1 place so ppl can focus on ideas and not talking whats is good or bad about X. Thats why i wanted a new thread as it would be the easiest. All the informations in first post so easy to find.

I had a post somewhere compiling all the ideas that I personally liked but it didn't really generate much discussion.

Edit

Okay there it is and a couple of other ones that I really liked.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

The difficulty is what they can do about it, as I dont believe a redo of the entire old overland is a realistic solution.

Agreed 100%

I'd like to see

*Debuff food
*Challenge Banner for Story Bosses
*Daedric Rifts buffed (random event in old overland could cause vet mobs to spawn. These are easily avoided)
*A Single New Zone that's like Craglorn with a completely standalone story and a dungeon. Maybe replace one of the dungeon dlcs with this. See if it would be popular. If it's more popular than a full dungeon dlc then maybe one of the dungeon dlcs going forward could be a small adventure zone with only 1 new dungeon instead.

Vaoh wrote: »

I think the issue would be solved if there was a new section under Options > Gameplay for this.

Difficulty Slider

Debilitation Potency
“Apply Debilitation onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Increases your Damage Taken, reduces your Damage Dealt, and reduces your Healing Taken by the following percentage.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Allied Healing
“Apply Debilitation II onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Reduces the amount of Healing Dealt you provide to your pets and allies.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Difficulty Scenario
“Determines the scenarios in which Debilitation and Debilitation II are deactivated. Note: Both effects will already deactivate in Duels, PvP areas, and any content which has a Veteran counterpart.”
Slider List: None, Public Dungeons, World Events, World Bosses, (any mix of the three).

No extra rewards. No need to swap out all of your hard earned gear/skills/CP. This is the only way to go about this situation and make everyone happy imo.

XomRhoK wrote: »

Partly agree. Debuffing player not very good option from perception of player, players moslty want to become powerfull, not weaker, but in numbers and effect on combat there is no difference from debuffing player and buffing enemies. For example, player have damage 2, creature have 8 HP, player kill creature in 4 hits, you want to prolonge fight in two times you can debuff player by decreasing his damage to 1, or you can "scale" creature to 16 HP, same result. But players just don't want to debuff themselves and it's understandable. Debuffing is just a method to achieve result and it suggested because it is easier to implement, no need to mock player that he were debuffed. Debuff will be invisible for player, and it more of the wording and and getting right attitude. For example
- Overland Veteran: Rumors about your adventures are widely known, all enemies will fight against you with additional fervor, they will deal double damage against you and resist against your attacks twice as good (+100% damage done to you and +50% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

- Overland Veteran Hard Mode: Every citizen of Tamriel know your name and deeds, all enemies will fight for their lives against you, they will deal quadruple damage against you and resist against your attacks four times better (+300% damage done to you and +75% more resist from your attacks to overland NPCs. Dungeons, trials, duels and PvP excluded). While this option is active you will recieve special frame around your Health bar:

With smoth progression difficulty sliders it will be different, but you can see the idea.
Before i think for myself on scaling mobs, smart scaling depending on number of players and their power, but i come to one aspect that can't be avoided, in my opinion, it's a AOE attacks of the mobs. Single attacks can be scaled depending on who monster attack, but AOE can't so it will be too weak to not kill weak players, or to powerfull and will one shot weaker players. Debuffing players individually have no such problem and much easier to implement.

Each of these have something interesting. Personally i would start with something simple like Banners for Story and World bosses + Debuff food for even harder challenge. If we start with this then we can see how many ppl are interested in this without "wasting" too much time on creating this.

Well i wouldnt mind if Craglorn would get a rework again :x

Sounds okayish. I would prefer them to introduce vet instances for new content and then check how popular they are (and if they are popular, reintroduce it to the older content). Banners are also ok.
I'm against debuff food as for me it is not a good solution and is prefered mostly by players who won't even consider themself playing harder overland.

I would play vet Overland.

Vulkunne

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I can't think of a single overland quest that claimed a fight was impossible. There are quest bosses to be defeated that a vet geared and experienced player won't find difficult, but most others will.

A lot of quests build up those "really hard fights with low chances for success".

Where does the game claim this? I have never had a quest tell me that a boss fight would be a really hard fight with a low chance for success. What I am told is that I am the one who can defeat this boss and save others from this threat.

Actually it kind of does.

Throughout that entire Coldharbour quest line it was leading up to you duking it out with a scathingly angry and vengeful demi-god.

Now, I was one of the fortunate few who got to experience this nightmare just before One Tam and that was by intent and me spending days rushing to the end. It was awesome and only two PvE fights since then shake me up like that, one of them was the battle at the end of Summerset Isles Story and the other is the final round of Veteran Vateshran (especially after the new CP system was implemented).

I don't think anyone is trying to hold ZOS to anything as there are various reasons for bringing change to the game. Its just the expectation existed before then, it exists now. And respectfully, many of us continue to be disappointed.

Also submitted for your approval, this lack of expectations resulting in mixed feelings is neither unique to ESO or occurred because of it. Its a problem existing throughout many of today's media industries. I've seen this type of discussion in many places.

SilverBride

Vulkunne wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Where does the game claim this? I have never had a quest tell me that a boss fight would be a really hard fight with a low chance for success. What I am told is that I am the one who can defeat this boss and save others from this threat.

Actually it kind of does.

Throughout that entire Coldharbour quest line it was leading up to you duking it out with a scathingly angry and vengeful demi-god.

Now, I was one of the fortunate few who got to experience this nightmare just before One Tam and that was by intent and me spending days rushing to the end. It was awesome and only two PvE fights since then shake me up like that, one of them was the battle at the end of Summerset Isles Story and the other is the final round of Veteran Vateshran (especially after the new CP system was implemented).

The Molag Bal fight was a nightmare that I was stuck on for several days, and there is a reason they changed things. Why would they go back to something that wasn't working before?

Vulkunne

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Here are some of the main complaints about the current overland:
1) Mobs are absurdly easy. I have not seen this in any other game. This is ridiculous.

They are easy in WoW, they were easy in Rift, there are many many MMO's that have easy overland questing zones and mobs.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

2) Quests are trivial. Talk to the marker, go further, click on the marker, go further, talk to the marker and so on. Yes, even in the new annual letter, Rich says that ZoS gives us stories. But please ... The game is more like a visual novel than an MMO or even an RPG. This is not at all what we expect.

These other MMO's have quest markers, too.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

3) Dead zones. After we finish all the quests at the location in 5-6 hours, we have absolutely no incentive to return there. I would like the zone to be something more than just a big decoration for questing.

Overland IS for questing, and telling a story. That is its purpose. It is not meant to be challenging content.

All PvE Content provides us with a choice between Normal and Veteran.

It seems collectively the argument is simply asking for ZOS to provide us with this same feature for Overland. The game is already instanced in other ways. I absolutely respect everyone's opinion however there is no reason this cannot be done. People have their reasons why it should not be done but judging from a technical perspective I highly doubt it will hurt anything. Besides, many times while I'm in zone my group indicator stays on vet. Let the vets have vet content and let everyone else have Normal in a separate instance.

Problem solved as simple as that.

Vulkunne

SilverBride wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Where does the game claim this? I have never had a quest tell me that a boss fight would be a really hard fight with a low chance for success. What I am told is that I am the one who can defeat this boss and save others from this threat.

Actually it kind of does.

Throughout that entire Coldharbour quest line it was leading up to you duking it out with a scathingly angry and vengeful demi-god.

Now, I was one of the fortunate few who got to experience this nightmare just before One Tam and that was by intent and me spending days rushing to the end. It was awesome and only two PvE fights since then shake me up like that, one of them was the battle at the end of Summerset Isles Story and the other is the final round of Veteran Vateshran (especially after the new CP system was implemented).

The Molag Bal fight was a nightmare that I was stuck on for several days, and there is a reason they changed things. Why would they go back to something that wasn't working before?

Well ideally when problem solving, we don't want to force things. So, because the difficulty modes are already split you have people, for years now, running PvE content on Normal and Veteran.

With that said, from as far as the Crow flies, I see this as a need for options as well reading thru this, I detect some confusion from why the argument against a feature the game already support, yet in a slightly different manner.

However, in this case everyone should be allowed to take full advantage of the options the game permits and decide which difficulty they want for themselves.

XomRhoK

Vulkunne wrote: »

Problem solved as simple as that.

In my opinion, Vet difficulty won't solve the problem, because you can't balance the difficulty, for 100k DPS it will be still easy, for 20k DPS it will be too hard, there are also tanks and healers who want to do quests solo, but find current difficulty too easy. I think the difficulty sliders (debuff player) is the only working, cheap and fast to do option.

SilverBride

Vulkunne wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Here are some of the main complaints about the current overland:
1) Mobs are absurdly easy. I have not seen this in any other game. This is ridiculous.

They are easy in WoW, they were easy in Rift, there are many many MMO's that have easy overland questing zones and mobs.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

2) Quests are trivial. Talk to the marker, go further, click on the marker, go further, talk to the marker and so on. Yes, even in the new annual letter, Rich says that ZoS gives us stories. But please ... The game is more like a visual novel than an MMO or even an RPG. This is not at all what we expect.

These other MMO's have quest markers, too.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

3) Dead zones. After we finish all the quests at the location in 5-6 hours, we have absolutely no incentive to return there. I would like the zone to be something more than just a big decoration for questing.

Overland IS for questing, and telling a story. That is its purpose. It is not meant to be challenging content.

All PvE Content provides us with a choice between Normal and Veteran.

It seems collectively the argument is simply asking for ZOS to provide us with this same feature for Overland. The game is already instanced in other ways. I absolutely respect everyone's opinion however there is no reason this cannot be done. People have their reasons why it should not be done but judging from a technical perspective I highly doubt it will hurt anything. Besides, many times while I'm in zone my group indicator stays on vet. Let the vets have vet content and let everyone else have Normal in a separate instance.

Problem solved as simple as that.

All PvE content does not provide players with a choice between normal and veteran in their questing zones. ESO doesn't and neither of the games I mentioned do, and there are others. The only place that there are levels of difficulty are in end game content, such as dungeons, trials and arenas, because that is where the challenge belongs.

The game being instanced into multiple identical zones to accommodate how many players are in game at the same time is not the same as an instance with completely different mobs and mechanics.

Plus there is the fact that many players don't see a problem with overland just as it is. If it isn't broken it doesn't need fixed.

Vulkunne

XomRhoK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Problem solved as simple as that.

In my opinion, Vet difficulty won't solve the problem, because you can't balance the difficulty, for 100k DPS it will be still easy, for 20k DPS it will be too hard, there are also tanks and healers who want to do quests solo, but find current difficulty too easy. I think the difficulty sliders (debuff player) is the only working, cheap and fast to do option.

That is an acceptable solution and suites my appetite as well.

I just think that concept wise it is easier to view this from high level as norm vs vet difficulty. Little more relatable to people.

Vulkunne

SilverBride wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Where does the game claim this? I have never had a quest tell me that a boss fight would be a really hard fight with a low chance for success. What I am told is that I am the one who can defeat this boss and save others from this threat.

Actually it kind of does.

Throughout that entire Coldharbour quest line it was leading up to you duking it out with a scathingly angry and vengeful demi-god.

Now, I was one of the fortunate few who got to experience this nightmare just before One Tam and that was by intent and me spending days rushing to the end. It was awesome and only two PvE fights since then shake me up like that, one of them was the battle at the end of Summerset Isles Story and the other is the final round of Veteran Vateshran (especially after the new CP system was implemented).

The Molag Bal fight was a nightmare that I was stuck on for several days, and there is a reason they changed things. Why would they go back to something that wasn't working before?

It worked perfectly for me because it met my expectations, which will absolutely not necessarily be the same as yours or anyone else's.

This may be an area where we will simply have to agree to disagree.

SilverBride

Vulkunne wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The Molag Bal fight was a nightmare that I was stuck on for several days, and there is a reason they changed things. Why would they go back to something that wasn't working before?

It worked perfectly for me. This may be an area where we will simply have to agree to disagree, as we should be able to.

That is several years in the past, anyway, so I agree to accept that we just disagree.