Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

summ0004 wrote: »

There are some options that have been raised such as the difficulty scrolls that have not been disagreed by hardly any people, so this would be an option to implement that would not require many resources and would a compromise to make more people happier.

I know more people would not use these scrolls and like the quests to be a walk and talk simulator, but there is a larger significant minority that would enjoy doing overland again if this was implemented.

Things such as PvP, companions, trials and housing are not all done by the majority of players, but there is a large enough minority of players to make adding these things helpful, and improvements in overland questing should be not be the exception.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I am very supportive of a debuff, or toggle as someone else suggested, to give players who want it more of a challenge. I also support an optional veteran story boss.

What I am not supportive of is a separate veteran overland for reasons that have been stated before, i.e. splitting the playerbase, increased rewards and achievements that less powerful players would be excluded from, etc.. Or any suggestions that increase the difficulty for everyone.

summ0004

SilverBride wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

There are some options that have been raised such as the difficulty scrolls that have not been disagreed by hardly any people, so this would be an option to implement that would not require many resources and would a compromise to make more people happier.

I know more people would not use these scrolls and like the quests to be a walk and talk simulator, but there is a larger significant minority that would enjoy doing overland again if this was implemented.

Things such as PvP, companions, trials and housing are not all done by the majority of players, but there is a large enough minority of players to make adding these things helpful, and improvements in overland questing should be not be the exception.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I am very supportive of a debuff, or toggle as someone else suggested, to give players who want it more of a challenge. I also support an optional veteran story boss.

What I am not supportive of is a separate veteran overland for reasons that have been stated before, i.e. splitting the playerbase, increased rewards and achievements that less powerful players would be excluded from, etc.. Or any suggestions that increase the difficulty for everyone.

I agree with this and its the best compromise for the most people.

Maya_Nur

summ0004 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

There are some options that have been raised such as the difficulty scrolls that have not been disagreed by hardly any people, so this would be an option to implement that would not require many resources and would a compromise to make more people happier.

I know more people would not use these scrolls and like the quests to be a walk and talk simulator, but there is a larger significant minority that would enjoy doing overland again if this was implemented.

Things such as PvP, companions, trials and housing are not all done by the majority of players, but there is a large enough minority of players to make adding these things helpful, and improvements in overland questing should be not be the exception.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I am very supportive of a debuff, or toggle as someone else suggested, to give players who want it more of a challenge. I also support an optional veteran story boss.

What I am not supportive of is a separate veteran overland for reasons that have been stated before, i.e. splitting the playerbase, increased rewards and achievements that less powerful players would be excluded from, etc.. Or any suggestions that increase the difficulty for everyone.

I agree with this and its the best compromise for the most people.

I'm affraid such compromise doesn't solve the original issue – not engaging overland. Mobs still won't try to kill player and keep standing in the AOEs, other players with no debuff will deal with your enemies with one-two shots just passing through your playing ground. We need either separate instances or smart placing of enemies with weak mobs near cities and strong in some areas like bandit camps.

SilverBride

Maya_Nur wrote: »

I'm affraid such compromise doesn't solve the original issue – not ingaging overland. Mobs still won't try to kill player and keep standing in the AOEs, other players with no debuff will deal with your enemies with one-two shots just passing through your playing ground. We need either separate instances or smart placing of enemies with weak mobs near cities and strong in some areas like bandit camps.

Engaging is not something that can be measured, and everyone has a different idea of what that means. But more importantly, changing the mechanics of every single mob in overland would be a huge task and is not likely to happen.

AlnilamE

OK, unfortunately it took me a while to see this thread and I don't have time to read 37 pages, so here's my proposal:

Create a "Vet" instance of each zone that gives the mobs the same hp/damage multiplier that dungeons get between normal and vet.

The player can choose to enter the "Vet" instance instead of the normal one by setting their group mode in the P menu, just like you would when entering a dungeon.

This would make the overland overall more challenging for players who want it so, while leaving the normal version for the rest of us.

This will not satisfy everyone, as some people have asked for mob mechanics to be made more complex and varied, but maybe if the mobs can't be one-shot anymore, they will find that there is actually a wide variety of mechanics in mobs across different zones.

mocap

just make food/drink/craftable set/mythic item with debuf(s) personal to player. Mobs will hit harder that player only and only him. No effect to everyone else, no instances, no increasing server work, easy to make.

Sylvermynx

mocap wrote: »

just make food/drink/craftable set/mythic item with debuf(s) personal to player. Mobs will hit harder that player only and only him. No effect to everyone else, no instances, no increasing server work, easy to make.

Well, the issue with that is it's overland - and you're never guaranteed to be alone on a mob. So what happens when my underwhelming warden wanders into your debuffed DK, and kills the mob before you get to enjoy the harder fight?

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

just make food/drink/craftable set/mythic item with debuf(s) personal to player. Mobs will hit harder that player only and only him. No effect to everyone else, no instances, no increasing server work, easy to make.

Well, the issue with that is it's overland - and you're never guaranteed to be alone on a mob. So what happens when my underwhelming warden wanders into your debuffed DK, and kills the mob before you get to enjoy the harder fight?

The same thing that happens when my 100k nightblade nukes the mob your 35k dragonknight was working on in vet mode, you move on.

Sylvermynx

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

just make food/drink/craftable set/mythic item with debuf(s) personal to player. Mobs will hit harder that player only and only him. No effect to everyone else, no instances, no increasing server work, easy to make.

Well, the issue with that is it's overland - and you're never guaranteed to be alone on a mob. So what happens when my underwhelming warden wanders into your debuffed DK, and kills the mob before you get to enjoy the harder fight?

The same thing that happens when my 100k nightblade nukes the mob your 35k dragonknight was working on in vet mode, you move on.

Sure - but a recipe for frustration. I mean, it would be fine with me if what was done was debuffs of some sort, but I just don't see that satisfying people very well.

SilverBride

Sylvermynx wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

just make food/drink/craftable set/mythic item with debuf(s) personal to player. Mobs will hit harder that player only and only him. No effect to everyone else, no instances, no increasing server work, easy to make.

Well, the issue with that is it's overland - and you're never guaranteed to be alone on a mob. So what happens when my underwhelming warden wanders into your debuffed DK, and kills the mob before you get to enjoy the harder fight?

If a player is using a debuff and someone comes along and kills their mob, or if a player is in a separate veteran overland and someone comes along and kills their mob, the end result is the same. It is not more likely to happen in one of these situations than the other.

Sylvermynx

I feel as if it's much more likely to happen in debuff + overland than it is in separate vet instances, which would likely not have as large an overland population.

Also there's an entire "griefing potential" with debuffs - where a "lesser character" comes upon a "greater character", figures out what's going on, kills the mob, and then the debuffed character gets into a slanging match with the other and eventually shows up here to complain.

*shrug* It might not happen - but I've seen enough in MMOs to expect stuff like that to occur.

SilverBride

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I feel as if it's much more likely to happen in debuff + overland than it is in separate vet instances, which would likely not have as large an overland population.

Also there's an entire "griefing potential" with debuffs - where a "lesser character" comes upon a "greater character", figures out what's going on, kills the mob, and then the debuffed character gets into a slanging match with the other and eventually shows up here to complain.

*shrug* It might not happen - but I've seen enough in MMOs to expect stuff like that to occur.

How would anyone even know another player was debuffed? They won't be flagged and we won't know, just like we can't look at another player now and see what buffs they are using.

Sylvermynx

If you see a high CP player fighting one or two mobs, and the mobs aren't dead in a few seconds, what will you think? I know what I would think.

I think debuffs aren't going to work well. YMMV of course.

SilverBride

Sylvermynx wrote: »

If you see a high CP player fighting one or two mobs, and the mobs aren't dead in a few seconds, what will you think? I know what I would think.

I think debuffs aren't going to work well. YMMV of course.

When I'm running around overland I don't pay any attention to random players I happen to run past. I certainly don't stop and check out their CP level and wait to see how long it takes them to kill a mob. I doubt many others would either because most players are too focused on their own activities to notice what another player is doing.

I don't see a debuff creating an increased threat of being griefed. I see it as the only fair and least disruptive option.

Sylvermynx

Uh. Well, I'm always watching others kill mobs, since I'm not too great at it. I mean, I LOVE watching someone with over 1k CP wipe the forest floor with a WB in under 30 seconds. I stand there with my mouth open, wishing I could manage that somehow....

And I've also had people stand around and watch me die to 4 mobs. Fortunately so far no one's laughed at me (at least not aloud....)

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

just make food/drink/craftable set/mythic item with debuf(s) personal to player. Mobs will hit harder that player only and only him. No effect to everyone else, no instances, no increasing server work, easy to make.

Well, the issue with that is it's overland - and you're never guaranteed to be alone on a mob. So what happens when my underwhelming warden wanders into your debuffed DK, and kills the mob before you get to enjoy the harder fight?

The same thing that happens when my 100k nightblade nukes the mob your 35k dragonknight was working on in vet mode, you move on.

Sure - but a recipe for frustration. I mean, it would be fine with me if what was done was debuffs of some sort, but I just don't see that satisfying people very well.

It will satisfy some players and not others. Some people see a one-handed push up and see a challenge, others see one and ask "Why can't I just use both hands, that's dumb."

Regardless though, debuffs have been used in many games to add difficulty. People being able to kill stuff faster than you is a part of multiplayer gaming. Debuffed or not. It remains a solution that is well liked by a sizable portion of people who enjoy adding difficulty to their games.

This game already has the big quests in private instances, and is already separated enough by the devs with multiple servers they expand and collapse as needed that you sometimes get complaints on the forums. I quest all the time while only seeing people on occasion. Will there probably be a little bit of griefing, sure. Give anyone a tool they can misuse and there will be someone out there that does. But you're already not running into a lot of people while questing in the first place, and when you do most of them will not grief. They will just go on their own way. Stronger players on the map is a part of multiplayer gaming, period. And not exclusive to either solution.

SirAxen

Here I was thinking if you wanted more of a challenge you did vet dungeons, Trials, Arenas, and/or PVP.

Harvokaan

SirAxen wrote: »

Here I was thinking if you wanted more of a challenge you did vet dungeons, Trials, Arenas, and/or PVP.

It isn't a lot if you actively doing that content for longer time (talking about PvE as PvP is completely different experience). Which was mentioned in this thread many times [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Elvenheart

Maya_Nur wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

There are some options that have been raised such as the difficulty scrolls that have not been disagreed by hardly any people, so this would be an option to implement that would not require many resources and would a compromise to make more people happier.

I know more people would not use these scrolls and like the quests to be a walk and talk simulator, but there is a larger significant minority that would enjoy doing overland again if this was implemented.

Things such as PvP, companions, trials and housing are not all done by the majority of players, but there is a large enough minority of players to make adding these things helpful, and improvements in overland questing should be not be the exception.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I am very supportive of a debuff, or toggle as someone else suggested, to give players who want it more of a challenge. I also support an optional veteran story boss.

What I am not supportive of is a separate veteran overland for reasons that have been stated before, i.e. splitting the playerbase, increased rewards and achievements that less powerful players would be excluded from, etc.. Or any suggestions that increase the difficulty for everyone.

I agree with this and its the best compromise for the most people.

I'm affraid such compromise doesn't solve the original issue – not engaging overland. Mobs still won't try to kill player and keep standing in the AOEs, other players with no debuff will deal with your enemies with one-two shots just passing through your playing ground. We need either separate instances or smart placing of enemies with weak mobs near cities and strong in some areas like bandit camps.

Maybe the best way to make the overland OPTIONALLY have more engaging enemies is to enable OPTIONAL overland/world pvp. Maybe player controlled “enemies” would provide the challenge some seek, again, as long as it’s optional because I don’t care for pvp and I like the overland npc mobs just the way they are now myself. 🙂

Toxic_Hemlock

Elvenheart wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

There are some options that have been raised such as the difficulty scrolls that have not been disagreed by hardly any people, so this would be an option to implement that would not require many resources and would a compromise to make more people happier.

I know more people would not use these scrolls and like the quests to be a walk and talk simulator, but there is a larger significant minority that would enjoy doing overland again if this was implemented.

Things such as PvP, companions, trials and housing are not all done by the majority of players, but there is a large enough minority of players to make adding these things helpful, and improvements in overland questing should be not be the exception.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I am very supportive of a debuff, or toggle as someone else suggested, to give players who want it more of a challenge. I also support an optional veteran story boss.

What I am not supportive of is a separate veteran overland for reasons that have been stated before, i.e. splitting the playerbase, increased rewards and achievements that less powerful players would be excluded from, etc.. Or any suggestions that increase the difficulty for everyone.

I agree with this and its the best compromise for the most people.

I'm affraid such compromise doesn't solve the original issue – not engaging overland. Mobs still won't try to kill player and keep standing in the AOEs, other players with no debuff will deal with your enemies with one-two shots just passing through your playing ground. We need either separate instances or smart placing of enemies with weak mobs near cities and strong in some areas like bandit camps.

Maybe the best way to make the overland OPTIONALLY have more engaging enemies is to enable OPTIONAL overland/world pvp. Maybe player controlled “enemies” would provide the challenge some seek, again, as long as it’s optional because I don’t care for pvp and I like the overland npc mobs just the way they are now myself. 🙂

Sounds good me me so long as they make a PVP OPTIONAL switch to cyrodiil too, I could use them skyshards.

Cireous

Vaoh wrote: »

I think the issue would be solved if there was a new section under Options > Gameplay for this.

Difficulty Slider

Debilitation Potency
“Apply Debilitation onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Increases your Damage Taken, reduces your Damage Dealt, and reduces your Healing Taken by the following percentage.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Allied Healing
“Apply Debilitation II onto yourself. This effect cannot be purged. Reduces the amount of Healing Dealt you provide to your pets and allies.”
Slider List: Off, 0-99%.

Difficulty Scenario
“Determines the scenarios in which Debilitation and Debilitation II are deactivated. Note: Both effects will already deactivate in Duels, PvP areas, and any content which has a Veteran counterpart.”
Slider List: None, Public Dungeons, World Events, World Bosses, (any mix of the three).

No extra rewards. No need to swap out all of your hard earned gear/skills/CP. This is the only way to go about this situation and make everyone happy imo.

Love it. Want it.
This is the one.
Let's do this, ZOS.
Time to get to work.

Ermiq

I'm leveling up a new character right now going through Ebonheart Pact zones. He's a stamina Nord Warden with a bow.
What is interesting here is that I don't wear anything at all except the bow. No armour, no jewelry, no CP, no food, no potions. The bows I use are anything that drops from enemies or quests. So, basically, my char is a completely naked ignorant barbarian with a random bow.
And... I have no problems at all in any main story and zone quests in Pact zones. I'm able complete all the delves and public dungeons alone. I even managed killed most part of the world bosses solo in Stonefalls and Deshaan (that's quite hard though).
Sure, I still remember that I certainly had some problems when I was a new player. Very rare problems though. Anyway, I've been wearing outdated gear (e.g., lvl 14 armor while I was lvl 25), didn't know about LA weaving, didn't know that the armor could be broken and it means no armor, no bonuses.
Yeah, I remember those times. But, on the other hand, I think that those rare troubles I've been getting into back then, is what made me to start to learn the game. I learned about broken gear, have noticed that the low level gear is significantly worse than the gear that matches my current level.
Then, when I reached CP 100 or something like that, I decided to play dungeons. And I've got a hurtful message from the game, the enemies, the people in pugs and forums. The message was: you suck, git gud. Yep. CP100+, and I still had no idea that my max magicka pool affects my dps and heals. I didn't know that I certainly should upgrade my gear to purple quality for dungeons. Basically, I didn't know how to play the game in general, despite the fact that I thought I was doing fine based on my experience in quests and public dungeons.
So, what is the moral of this story? I believe that overland content certainly should be harder. Not vet-dungeon hard though, but still what we have now is just a joke, an incredibly low difficulty that doesn't even deserve to be called 'difficulty'.
And I believe that harder overland content will serve well to make new players start to actually learn how the game basics work and how to play it, which, in turn, will decrease the gap between experienced players and those who currently deal 5K dps at CP100 because they just don't even know that they are doing something wrong.

Fennwitty

Lots of good discussion.

It would help if maybe instead of having to dig through lots of old Twitch videos and so on, could we request a community article for the web site interviewing several of the development team on the frequently-asked-questions?

I completely understand that any particular thing is always being evaluated and so on, but it would benefit the community at large to hear from the team and their reasoning for things.

So this might have been requested a ton of times already but I want to reiterate @ZOS_Kevin it would be nice to get a "Dev Q&A" sort of article on the official web site next year. Ideally more frequent than once a year.

I'd love to have a regular "Q&A Corner".

Today there's often lots of this detail and thought on issues buried in PTS patch notes and official patch notes, but nothing consolidated or easy to search.

Parasaurolophus

Fennwitty wrote: »

Lots of good discussion.

It would help if maybe instead of having to dig through lots of old Twitch videos and so on, could we request a community article for the web site interviewing several of the development team on the frequently-asked-questions?

I completely understand that any particular thing is always being evaluated and so on, but it would benefit the community at large to hear from the team and their reasoning for things.

So this might have been requested a ton of times already but I want to reiterate @ZOS_Kevin it would be nice to get a "Dev Q&A" sort of article on the official web site next year. Ideally more frequent than once a year.

I'd love to have a regular "Q&A Corner".

Today there's often lots of this detail and thought on issues buried in PTS patch notes and official patch notes, but nothing consolidated or easy to search.

Rich Lambert has already spoken about this and believes that everything is fine now.

Fennwitty

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Lots of good discussion.

It would help if maybe instead of having to dig through lots of old Twitch videos and so on, could we request a community article for the web site interviewing several of the development team on the frequently-asked-questions?

I completely understand that any particular thing is always being evaluated and so on, but it would benefit the community at large to hear from the team and their reasoning for things.

So this might have been requested a ton of times already but I want to reiterate @ZOS_Kevin it would be nice to get a "Dev Q&A" sort of article on the official web site next year. Ideally more frequent than once a year.

I'd love to have a regular "Q&A Corner".

Today there's often lots of this detail and thought on issues buried in PTS patch notes and official patch notes, but nothing consolidated or easy to search.

Rich Lambert has already spoken about this and believes that everything is fine now.

Ok, then it should be relatively simple for some nice person at ZoS to compile that information and post it in a single place on the web site

Parasaurolophus

Fennwitty wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Lots of good discussion.

It would help if maybe instead of having to dig through lots of old Twitch videos and so on, could we request a community article for the web site interviewing several of the development team on the frequently-asked-questions?

I completely understand that any particular thing is always being evaluated and so on, but it would benefit the community at large to hear from the team and their reasoning for things.

So this might have been requested a ton of times already but I want to reiterate @ZOS_Kevin it would be nice to get a "Dev Q&A" sort of article on the official web site next year. Ideally more frequent than once a year.

I'd love to have a regular "Q&A Corner".

Today there's often lots of this detail and thought on issues buried in PTS patch notes and official patch notes, but nothing consolidated or easy to search.

Rich Lambert has already spoken about this and believes that everything is fine now.

Ok, then it should be relatively simple for some nice person at ZoS to compile that information and post it in a single place on the web site

Don't be so naive, it won't happen. For several years we have been complaining about the terrible rng and only now, after 8 years, we got a smart collection system. Live feedback is not ZoS policy.

Callosum

summ0004 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

There are some options that have been raised such as the difficulty scrolls that have not been disagreed by hardly any people, so this would be an option to implement that would not require many resources and would a compromise to make more people happier.

I know more people would not use these scrolls and like the quests to be a walk and talk simulator, but there is a larger significant minority that would enjoy doing overland again if this was implemented.

Things such as PvP, companions, trials and housing are not all done by the majority of players, but there is a large enough minority of players to make adding these things helpful, and improvements in overland questing should be not be the exception.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I am very supportive of a debuff, or toggle as someone else suggested, to give players who want it more of a challenge. I also support an optional veteran story boss.

What I am not supportive of is a separate veteran overland for reasons that have been stated before, i.e. splitting the playerbase, increased rewards and achievements that less powerful players would be excluded from, etc.. Or any suggestions that increase the difficulty for everyone.

I agree with this and its the best compromise for the most people.

Agree. While i would love a veteran option a debuff is with out a doubt the best solution. Veteran overland would still be to easy or to hard while some kind of debuff could be introduced in different levels and with much less effort.
What i hope for is some kind of debuff scrolls you can get from The Undaunted introduced as a combat training method. This way different scrolls could debuff you character in different percentages.

Considering the incentive, this should not exclude any players from achievements, gear etc. However, I think that if you got a debuff descreasing damage done, increasing damage taken and only making respawn at the nearest wayshrine upon death it should come with a some kind chance to get blue gear instead of green or increased chance to loot more gold. This should mostly be to compensate for the increased time it would take to do overland stuff or soloing dungeons.

martinhpb16_ESO

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Rich Lambert has already spoken about this and believes that everything is fine now.

Richard Lambert probably doesn't play the game much and the fact that this thread has been created and is now 37 pages long demonstrates that there is significant interest in some form of vet overland.

And as Richard Lambert is a human being and not a bot he is perfectly capable of updating his opinion.

Elsonso

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Rich Lambert has already spoken about this and believes that everything is fine now.

Richard Lambert probably doesn't play the game much and the fact that this thread has been created and is now 37 pages long demonstrates that there is significant interest in some form of vet overland.

I cannot tell if you are joking...

(Seriously...)

webgeo99

The "overland" content is NOT to easy. It's meant for new players to ease into the game. what do you want, Vet level overland where everybody under the CP level of 3600 constantly dies?