Update 26 Combat Preview

The_Lex

What the hell is happening with the dev team?!?!

FrancisCrawford

Eri_86 wrote: »

I'm absolutely disgusted. It took me two years to get good enough to finish VMA and now all the gear I have is useless and noobs get a free pass. They havent spent thousands on this game like the veterans have and you are screwing them over. Never been so angry in my life

Not "useless" -- just "sub-optimal".

But that's plenty bad enough.

Cirantille

Kekw

twitch_zero

Add me to the chorus that existing VMA and VDSA weapons not being upgraded is a kick in the teeth for veteran players. They should be upgraded if the veteran content is the same after the patch.

FrancisCrawford

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Oh I read them, and I still don’t understand the emotional responses. The fact is that you can keep all your existing weapons and experience no change. And if you’d like some more of them, then great they are now even easier to farm on normal.

Are people just upset that the non-vet players now have access to these same weapons? You had exclusive access to them for 4 1/2 years, and I’d hope became a better player from the time spent in vMA. No reason to keep the rest of the players down at this point.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

If no gear were ever nerfed or buffed, your argument might make sense.

blkjag

What happened to the performance plans? You guys would rather insult the people who earned these weapons by giving them away on normal? It’s completely ridiculous that the people who spent the time and mats to get these weapons now have to go back and do it again. You’re taking away something we already earned. Just make existing weapons perfected.
Stop treating your customers this way. Make good on your promise to fix this game and stop making changes nobody wants. You guys really know how to sell a new chapter. “Hey gang, wanna grind the same content you did years ago that you spent hours on to get the right drop. Well guess what? You get to do it all over again. Why? Because screw you that’s why. Good luck getting your weapons and enjoy greymoor.”

FrancisCrawford

D0PAMINE wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Why can't the weapons on live be updated to Perfected and a new version of the weapons be added as the non perfected?

There's surely no good reason. The ability to change the functionality of sets is well-established, including for arena weapons.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Burnt myself out on vMA just grinding for the weapons I wanted. Then you introduced style pages for the weapons so I reluctantly returned to get all of those and burnt myself out even more. Now I have to return a 3rd time just to get all my weapons again. I'm not really one to complain about stuff but this is a real slap in the face to many players who spent hours upon hours getting the weapons they wanted and are burnt out on vMA just as much, if not more, than I am. I understand you gotta keep content relevant in order to sell DLC but there are better ways to go about it.

Atherakhia

I'm less concerned with the current gear not being upgraded as I am with these arenas now effectively being pointless for the next couple months as there's no conceivable way to pretend the vet dungeons are worth the effort considering the overall difficulty of the normal versions of these arenas.

No one wants to have to run the same thing tens if not hundreds of times to try and get the one piece of gear they've been trying to get only to most likely still need to invest resources to retrait and re-enchant it. It's fair to say that a large amount of angst in this thread is specifically for this reason.

Arenas would be a good contender to mirror the undaunted key process for loot attainment. Normal difficulty could give X 'arena cache' keys while vet gives Y 'arena cache' keys. Players could then purchase the weapon they want with a randomized trait for A keys and players could buy the perfected weapon they want for B keys.

Something like normal runs give 1 key, veteran runs give 10 keys, and players can buy a normal weapon for 5 keys or a perfected weapon for 50 keys for example.

shaielzafine

blkjag wrote: »

What happened to the performance plans? You guys would rather insult the people who earned these weapons by giving them away on normal? It’s completely ridiculous that the people who spent the time and mats to get these weapons now have to go back and do it again. You’re taking away something we already earned. Stop treating your customers this way. Make good on your promise to fix this game and stop making changes nobody wants. You guys really know how to sell a new chapter. “Hey gang, wanna grind the same content you did years ago that you spent hours on to get the right drop. Well guess what? You get to do it all over again. Why? Because screw you that’s why. Good luck getting your weapons and enjoy greymoor.”

Exactly. They could deliver on their 2020 performance promises instead. Which btw how many performance patches have our performance patches gotten, and has anything really been fixed? Because Cyrodiil and PvE trials still run like slideshows on primetime and we have more bugs than ever before on too of the server lag & skill input delays. But now I have to re-farm old content and endure the randomized drop grind with this terrible performance. Disgusting. I am glad I haven't pre-ordered Greymoor. I want to see what their final version of these changes will be. They consistently do nonsense combat changes and make me wish Wrobel never left the team, because they're proud of their sledgehammer changes that create more chaos. Ridiculous. Makes me
really appreciate other mmo game devs like the FF14 or GW2 devs that much more.

red_emu

You do realise that even in this snippet of changes it's clear, this is the end of PvP for casual player and a god mode for organised ball groups, right?

Right???

Cirantille

Btw:

Changing Valkyn Skoria sounds good. It never made sense to me that it has health bonus, but with extra spell penetration, I will give it a try in my builds again. Hope to see other sensible changes like that to other monster sets so they can be usable/favorable in builds.

Also crit resistance might be good, because now basically all builds are all-impen, this will bring more variety and other traits (depending on base crit resistance)

Lapin_Logic

Brian.... I completed VETERAN.

It should not matter WHEN I completed it.

If you can change my Plague Doctor and Necropotence set when you want to nerf it then there is NO logistical reason you cannot change my EXISTING VMA staff to the NEW VMA staff.... All you do is make the "Imperfect Maelstrom Inferno Staff" its own new asset.

Why should a new player get the same staff as me for completing Normal Maelstrom, something that I can now complete with my feet using the controller?

The only reprieve is if Our Old Staves are "Classic Veteran Maelstrom weapons" that are as powerful as the new Vet reward but a different variant to celebrate us heroes of old.

Thevampirenight

Well, I've not farmed the Vet Maelstrom Arena, and I don't really see the sense in it. A weapon is a weapon, I just use whatever I have. Sure it can be helpful for dps or meta builds but can one live without them yes.
Sure they could have added more code to auto upgrade existing weapons. But the thing is that would just add more code to the servers likely just to convert them.

The servers need less extensive coding and its likely better they are just adding them to the loot table though I do understand the pain and well the efforts put into getting the desirable weapons and now new weapons are being added that are better and people are pissed that they might have to regrind for the better versions because they feel they must and well. You don't need to just stick with what you have.
They could have edited existing versions true but it seems they want these to be their own exclusives.

Now I think they are doing good with actually focusing on performance.

To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Now this is a good change and I'm hoping there is more like this for performance with Greymoor.

I"m glad they confirmed what many of us already knew they are updating werewolves.
Its nice to see that they are getting a big focus this chapter.

YandereGirlfriend

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

With respect, this would be a show-stoppingly bad move.

CallmeSunny

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Well... no comment... I pre ordered tbis game, but with every update I feel less appreciated, and less respected.... every patch I need to redonwload the game, and for a week its unplayable... right, the game IS unplayable, try and log in PC EU in prime time..... skills not going off, and still getting kicked out of server, finding that you need to que again for cyrodil for half an hour... im still surfing on my resto staff, and have unvisible weapons... 3 days after you guys announced that it got fixed... now i need to do all vma and vdsa pve again, because... oh, no reason... just because you said so.
You bringing new content, and these silly events almost constant, spending many working hours to create this stuff, and implement it to a game which has so many bugs, im not even bothered to list it here. We thought you taking content creators from tgis game to actually make a difference, but its just getting worst and worst. The whole community is disappointed, and many of my guildies and friends left the game as most of us can not find joy anymore.... increase performance first as you promised, get better servers, and then create new content!!! WE ALREADY PAYED FOR IT WHEN BOUGHT BASE GAME, AND PAY FOR ESO PLUS!!!
I tried to keep this comment as less emotional and as less critical as I could, please take it well!

precambria

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

bruh

code65536

Cirantille wrote: »

Changing Valkyn Skoria sounds good. It never made sense to me that it has health bonus

That's largely a historical artifact, from the days when there were just 8 monster sets, and both stam and mag used the same sets instead of different sets. Back then, health was a neutral bonus, useful for both stam and mag, though optimal for neither.

peacenote

First... small thing: am I the only one bummed by the proposed Skoria change? Does everything have to be in a simplistic bucket?? Why can't a damage set have a health bonus? I liked Skoria's hybrid-ness and I use it frequently on my healer to add damage and health. LOTS of players use it. Why not make a NEW monster set that is kinda like Skoria but with spell penetration? What is with this new trend that gives us new things at the expense of ruining something else?

Second... do you need to hire some kind of freelance communication/leadership advisor? Because I'll do it, just to help save my favorite game. Seriously, I'll help for like... 5 gems a month. Whatever. I don't even care.

I just can't believe no one considered addressing in the initial announcement EXACTLY what was happening to current VMA and VDSA weapons. This is obviously the primary question that would be asked by the population. Communication Skills 101!!! Does my message address most of the commonly anticipated questions? Is it accomplishing what I meant to accomplish? Etc.

• Don't want to give a new feature away? Say that you are still working on a plan for current weapons.
• Haven't decided how to handle it, or dealing with a technical issue? SAY SO!
• Know for sure that current weapons will not be perfected? Say so, upfront, and EXPLAIN WHY.

This isn't rocket science.

Personally I've never had the patience to grind for all the VMA weapons I need, so I don't have them all, but I am extremely sympathetic for those of you that did. It is a huge insult to have to run old content that you've already beaten to obtain, via an RNG method, BIS weapons. It is also a huge insult (that word "automatically" in there was kind of suspicious) if there IS a plan to address this issue with tokens or some kind of exchange, but due to not wanting to yet reveal the idea you're being left to believe you have to re-grind everything for the time being. Neither of those options make us feel valued as customers.

Lastly, again.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE OLD STUFF "NEW." We deserved a new vampire skill line. We deserved a new solo BG queue in addition to what we had. Heck, we even deserve a new mount model for the next few events, instead of more indriks! And we deserve new solo and 4man arenas, or at least a new modes, if they are going to drop BIS weapons. It is great to fix old things but it's NOT great to parade fixed up content or simplified, gutted content as new features. Stop it. Either make the weapons that previously dropped from the veteran arenas perfected, or make the weapons that drop from normal inferior to what we have now.

John_Falstaff

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Sure they could have added more code to auto upgrade existing weapons. But the thing is that would just add more code to the servers likely just to convert them.

What you say, makes no sense to me. They've been renaming existing sets and changing their traits for as long as game exists, it's nothing but routine thing for them, happens every patch. Renaming current set into perfected and adding a trait is no different from all the buffs and nerfs (mostly nerfs, let's be frank) they've been doing so far.

CallmeSunny

@ZOS_BrianWheeler my suggestion: ok lets refarm the whole thing... but at least let us chose which weapon we want to pick at the end. Trait can be random, but who wants sword and board, if farming inferno staff for 5 characters? Or need bows? Reconsider this please

Vlad9425

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Terrible decision ZOS. You’re basically making it so everyone’s effort to complete the Vet content and grind for these weapons is now meaningless. Great way to reward the players who supported your game huh.

Lady_Sleepless

Who wants to bet that this is the 'new' perfected staff?

xaraan

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I don't get it. If ZOS is increasing the baseline of crit resistance and decreasing the value of impen… won't it still require you to have the same amount of impen gear?

Yes, this seems like a change just for the benefit of players not willing to learn the game, like most changes zos has been floating lately.

It will be good for players that don't know or don't bother to make pvp gear to just come in on their divines gear and not be as squishy without making a player in all impen any stronger.

By reducing the value of each impen piece, the idea is to make the other traits stronger by comparison in the hope of increasing PvP build/gear choice diversity. I'm interested to see how it works/what the precise new values are.

I don't think it will be a horrible change for the record. This the least dumb thing in the changes mentioned.

My issues are that they are going about it the wrong way. Adding base impen will just make tanks tankier as they can add other traits to add to it. I can already tank a zerg on my pve tank with zero impen. The most help players need in pvp is that medium armor is meh. Crit should just be added as a line to medium (combine it onto the stealth passive that isnt' really a combat passive) and give medium armor wearers crit resistance. That should help them a little on making that armor useful in pvp again without making heavy armor wearers tankier or light armor wearers who can use shields tougher either.

And some traits aren't used b/c they just aren't good. Invigorating has been bad since it came out. Nerfing impen won't change that unless they buff it a little (and maybe they will). If it was truly about trait diversity, then I could understand, but I'm just seeing that probably one different trait being used instead of impen is all. Which will be the same traits used in pve, which is why it comes off like just making it easier for players to not learn about pvp and just jump in with the same gear they have. Watering the game down for players that don't care about learning is what they've been up to, I guess that's where the money is.

Auroan

They were able to roll out an update that made it so jewelry before Summerset couldn't be deconstructed, while everything past that update could be deconstructed. Therefore, they're more than capable of identifying what is prior to the update, so that they can convert our current vMA and Master weapons into Perfected, and what isn't prior to the update. However, just like with Summerset, they're going to force people to re-farm things to add replay value. So don't expect any feedback to effect their decision. They did it with Jewelry, they'll do it with vMA and Master weapons.

Re-farming wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for RNG. That's why people are upset about this. ZOS needs to implement a system that reduces RNG for players, like they did with Pledges/Monster Helms. Just like in vDSA, ZOS needs to have a Treasure Room, but with multiple chests to allow players to pick from different weapons. A One-Handed Chest, a 2H Chest, a Destro Staff Chest, etc. That way the RNG element is still there for their replay value, but not in a disgusting way that forces players to potentially run 100 times before they get the weapon they want.

karekiz

peacenote wrote: »

Lastly, again.... STOP TRYING TO MAKE OLD STUFF "NEW." We deserved a new vampire skill line. We deserved a new solo BG queue in addition to what we had. Heck, we even deserve a new mount model for the next few events, instead of more indriks! And we deserve new solo and 4man arenas, or at least a new modes, if they are going to drop BIS weapons. It is great to fix old things but it's NOT great to parade fixed up content or simplified, gutted content as new features. Stop it. Either make the weapons that previously dropped from the veteran arenas perfected, or make the weapons that drop from normal inferior to what we have now.

It isn't like they aren't making new stuff...

Iron_Blurr

Imagine feeling so entitled that you believe you deserve perfected weapons you did not earn. You think your situation is bad? Let me remind you all that before transmutation came out there were players that actually had to farm for the perfect trait on their needed weapon in vMa.

I'm actually happy for these changes. Now I want perfected master architect, war machine, moondancer, IA, alkosh etc. That might actually liven up some old content for a lot of people.

vMa is not hard to do at all. You can clear it with 15-20k dps. I'm not a god tier player but I've gotten multiple flawless no sigil runs on my dps and even tank. And yes I mean an actual tank with 7 heavy, sword and shield front bar using pierce armor as a spammable and using an infused crusher lightning blockade back bar and silver leashing adds into it. It's really NOT hard to do vma.
Zos wants to get more people to play these old arenas. If everyone had their old weapons upgraded to perfect ones there would be no reason to run these arenas which would not achieve the intended goal zos has of getting more people to play it more often.

If people need help doing vMa I have some advice that may help you.
Generally there are two main strategies to doing vMa.
1 Have high enough dps that you can kill things before they damage you.
2 Play the long game by doing consistent damage and being tanky enough to survive a screw up or two. There are only 2 stages that are actually a dps race and even those stages can be beaten with 15-20k dps. If your rotation is not perfect and you cant light attack weave you can still surpass this dps threshold by wearing proc sets like vipers sting or whatever.

trymi

[snip]

I'll take my refund for preorder of the next expansion and cancel ESO+. This is a train wreck that doesn't deserve funding anymore.

[Edited for bashing]

LtSnowballin

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Do y'all not realize you can just modify the existing vMA and vDSA weapons to fit the new perfected ones, then just make some new ones for non perfected? This is a serious question for you Brian, because at this point the game and it's dev team is SO frustrating. Please, just modify the existing, then make new ones. Thank you, and for GODS SAKE PLEASE.

[Edited for bashing]

SoulAffliction

SoulAffliction wrote: »

I believe someone mentioned earlier getting rid of RNG for both vMA & vDSA...

I’d go one step further and would suggest that upon completion of vMA or vDSA, you should get a choice of what weapon you want (like how you choose the Fighter’s Guild Prismatic)...

However; maybe leaving the trait as RNG, leaving transmutation viable.

Thoughts?

CallmeSunny wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler my suggestion: ok lets refarm the whole thing... but at least let us chose which weapon we want to pick at the end. Trait can be random, but who wants sword and board, if farming inferno staff for 5 characters? Or need bows? Reconsider this please

@callmesunny. Absolutely agree...Exactly what I posted earlier.

PVP players, who detest doing endless PVE grinds, probably wouldn’t have a problem running these again a few times KNOWING they could pick what they wanted at the end...regardless of having to transmute.