Update 26 Combat Preview

xaraan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

GrumpyKlam wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Oh I read them, and I still don’t understand the emotional responses. The fact is that you can keep all your existing weapons and experience no change. And if you’d like some more of them, then great they are now even easier to farm on normal.

Are people just upset that the non-vet players now have access to these same weapons? You had exclusive access to them for 4 1/2 years, and I’d hope became a better player from the time spent in vMA. No reason to keep the rest of the players down at this point.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

The biggest problem is the confusion around all combat changes in the past years and the lack of communication the combat devs have with the community.

Some of us remember when you had to farm before transmute and the "old" vMA weapons with two bonuses that got taken away.

Don't get me wrong here, I do not care if I have to regrind it all over, it's actually kinda fun. But most people don't feel that way.

We all know people that spent 5 hours in there doing a first clear. We all know people that grinded that arena only to get a prosperous (KEKW) fire staff in the end or someone with such bad RNG they had to run vMA 100 times before getting X weapon.

Most people don't like challenging content and don't wanna "git gud", they just want the weapon and never go back.

Hopefully they change how the reward works, like the undaunted chest or a token system, before this goes live.

As for myself, I will enjoy going back!

Yeah, I’d be all for the implementation of a token or coffer system. RNG can be a pain, and working toward something with a concrete concept of when the grind will end is preferable.

Communication could also be better. Like if they had stated in more like “Our data shows there has been a decline in the number of players running arenas, so to revitalize these parts of the game we will be adding new Perfected versions of Master and Maelstrom weapons that will start dropping in Greymoor. The current arena weapons will now be available in normal mode.” Maybe fewer people would have assumed they were entitled to a free gear upgrade? Although to be fair, Brian was very quick to clarify.

That does not sound any better.

I still hear: Your current vMA drops will be downgraded to nMA drops so we can make you refarm vMA just because.

Oh, you don't have to runfarm vMA, because it will just screw you a little to not have an extra one piece bonus, but the next guy that does the same thing after Greymoor that you did years ago when the content was harder, will now get a better drop than you. So just try not to care.

Just adding the nMA and not screwing over the vMA runners would be enough to "raise the floor" and help out those that can't or don't want to do vMA. No reason at all to not change the vMA weapons except as a middle finger to those of us that have run it.

tuxon

Such a "we spit into the faces of our players" behaviour, though nothing new.

T3hasiangod

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

You're missing the mark. By a good margin.

We didn't complain about Olorime or Lokkestiiz replacing old sets because those sets came with new content. Right now, they're introducing the Perfected items into old content without updating the old content.

I guarantee that if they had tied these Perfected items with some kind of challenge (e.g. Hard Mode, Flawless, get above 500k score, single uninterrupted run, etc.), there'd be far less complaining about the whole "not upgrading" thing.

Beyond just this, it's just further evidence of how out-of-touch the developers are with their game and the community.

I don't think I've seen people ask for Perfected versions of the arena weapons. I've seen people ask for a new solo arena, 2-man arenas, and hard modes for vMA and vDSA (which is where I suppose new sets or Perfected sets come into play). But never just Perfected versions of the arena weapons.

They failed to introduce some new mechanic to get these Perfected sets. Like I mentioned above, many end game players would be fine with doing a Hard Mode vMA for the Perfected sets. Or even a Flawless run for Perfected sets. It's not that we can't farm for the new set. It's that we don't want to farm because it's 4 year old content that many of us find boring.

If their goal was to revitalize old content, then they missed the mark here too. Sure, older players are going to now have to run old content (willingly or not) for the best gear. But the old content was already being run by newer players who want/need to get the gear from vMA/DSA for their characters for whatever build they want to run. DPS pretty much need the vMA bow or inferno staff for PvE. Healers are highly recommended to have a vDSA resto staff. So the content was being run. Not by older players, but by newer players. ESO is fairly unique among MMOs in this regard: due to the horizontal gear progression, older content can be made or kept relevant because the gear there is still strong.

They also failed to foresee the backlash (justified or not) of not upgrading or providing a method of upgrading existing vMA/DSA weapons to Perfected versions. Even something as simple as "every character who has the vMA achievement will get one free Perfected weapon" or marking old vMA/DSA weapons (like they did with pre-Summerset jewelry) and allowing us to exchange them for Perfected weapons in the first week would have been tolerable.

They failed to understand that for a lot of players, they spend hours and sometimes days, working on vMA to get a chance at getting the right weapon type. Sure, they can now run it on normal for the same version of the staff. But in an MMO, many players will aim to get the best gear they can; after all, why settle for "good enough" when you can work a little bit more and get "the best there is"? This change can be viewed by those players as disrespecting their efforts or time spent in vMA. It can discourage them from farming the set. It can anger them because now they feel like they were "cheated" out of the new better option. Regardless of whether this is a legitimate claim or concern doesn't matter in their eyes, and honestly, it shouldn't matter in the eyes of a developer. This is your clientele that is getting angry at you. From a strict business/community perspective, this isn't a good look.

Sure, the new Perfected staves aren't going to be that much of an improvement in overall DPS. But we aren't looking at that. We're seeing this as a symptom of a far bigger problem that concerns many players: that the devs are out-of-touch with what the community wants, and as a result, will make changes that are detrimental to the health of the game.

Masel

For me personally, I tried to go through pros and cons of upgrading the weapons, and I couldnt find any cons. Usually even with controversial changes I could find something that could be seen as an argument, but here I just cant.

I see two reasons that could've led to this decision:

1. They want to make older content relevant again. For people who still enjoy doing that, not a big deal. I could refarm the gear quickly if I wanted to, but I personally dont want to use my precious time for doing it, since I already spent a lot of time on it before. To that, one could argue that "you didnt lose anything". But it feels like a comparative loss, which is what I think many players in here feel as well. If it was adjusted content, maybe. But not for the very same content, it feels like the existing weapons just got downgraded, because a lot less effort is required to get them now. That is not to say that normal shouldnt drop the non perfect ones, I think that's a good thing because basically everyone has access to those weapons now.
2. Another reason to decide against the upgrade is that altering the existing ones would be cumbersome, or to put it more specifically, more cumbersome than the alternative. That would mean that altering the existing ones and copy-pasting the old set to normal diffculty is more complex than adding in a perfected set from scratch to veteran. I dont really see how that could be true, but sometimes, we don't (or can't) see the whole picture.

Both of these arguments are not really valid in my opinion. If it is so much effort to change a set name of existing items in inventories, then maybe the system itself is a little flawed. And if they just want us to play the old content again, then well... I dont know what to say to that.

ThyMorningGlory

What an absolute slap in the face to your loyal end gamers. I farmed that staff after hundreds of runs before transmutes on console then regrinded it all again on PC. Now you tell me all my work and effort could have been done on normal!!!! No. That is unacceptable.

Ode2Order

Well thank the Divines that I haven't done vMA yet, but not upgrading the weapons to Perfected for the players who *have* done it is really gross. Can't you make a vendor or something to which people can trade in their non-perfected version for a perfected, like a week or two into the patch? Or convert them into maelstrom tickets or whatever. You get the idea I hope?

D0PAMINE

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Why can't the weapons on live be updated to Perfected and a new version of the weapons be added as the non perfected?

MurderMostFoul

xaraan wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I don't get it. If ZOS is increasing the baseline of crit resistance and decreasing the value of impen… won't it still require you to have the same amount of impen gear?

Yes, this seems like a change just for the benefit of players not willing to learn the game, like most changes zos has been floating lately.

It will be good for players that don't know or don't bother to make pvp gear to just come in on their divines gear and not be as squishy without making a player in all impen any stronger.

By reducing the value of each impen piece, the idea is to make the other traits stronger by comparison in the hope of increasing PvP build/gear choice diversity. I'm interested to see how it works/what the precise new values are.

MörKi

I don't like the vMSA! I had long nightmares until I got these clear. It is an insolence that the weapons already received do not automatically become perfect !!!

WrathOfInnos

hackdrag0n wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

Your analogy makes no sense in the context of this discussion. When you go to a dealership and fork over your hard earned money, you know exactly what it is you are paying for. vMA is a lottery, you never know what you're going to get, which is why this change will anger a lot of long term players. We already purchased 100, 300 or even more tickets and won our prize. Now we have to play again because you have to compete for DPS spots in many vet trials guilds given that the more DPS you have the easier the content becomes.

The price in this analogy is the time and effort to obtain the gear, including the effects of RNG. It sounds like you are mad that others will have a newer, slightly faster car, and will get chosen for groups where you are left out? I don’t think this will be the case if these perfected weapons follow the pattern of Blackrose, Cloudrest and Sunspire gear. Expect to see a 1pc bonus (2-2.5% damage) added to sets that are typically used back bar (where 20-25% of damage is done) and we’re talking about a ~0.5% DPS gain. On an 80k parse that is 400 DPS. Spending 30 minutes practicing on a dummy will increase most players’ DPS by more than re-farming Maelstrom. It’s certainly not going to be enough difference to make or break your ability to complete any content. There’s also the fact that 95% of players here are saying they refuse to set foot in Maelstrom for the new version, so it sounds like it will remain a level playing field for the vast majority.

monkey36948

Prrasha wrote: »

monkey36948 wrote: »

My proposal? Make it where if someone is using 5 piece+ of heavy armor their damage will take a flat 25% nerf. This will make it to where players don't want to sacrifice that much damage in pvp. It won't affect pve since only tanks run 5+.

Untrue.

If you think this fixes things, add it as an effect of Battle Spirit, and don't screw over PvE players for PvP.

Unless you think that sets like Rattlecage, Thunderbug, Storm Knight, Dreugh King, Medusa, Truth, 7th Legion, Yokeda/Berserking, and all the other DPSing heavy sets never get used by anyone?

Also, there are enough people asking if group finder is "broken" because the DPS queue is so long. Making "casual" PvE tanks even more uncommon is a horrible idea.

These sets get used on weapons/jewellery if used in pve a good pve player never uses more then 2 pieces heavy armor on a dps. Though putting that onto battle spirit would work as well.

GrumpyKlam

xaraan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

GrumpyKlam wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Oh I read them, and I still don’t understand the emotional responses. The fact is that you can keep all your existing weapons and experience no change. And if you’d like some more of them, then great they are now even easier to farm on normal.

Are people just upset that the non-vet players now have access to these same weapons? You had exclusive access to them for 4 1/2 years, and I’d hope became a better player from the time spent in vMA. No reason to keep the rest of the players down at this point.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

The biggest problem is the confusion around all combat changes in the past years and the lack of communication the combat devs have with the community.

Some of us remember when you had to farm before transmute and the "old" vMA weapons with two bonuses that got taken away.

Don't get me wrong here, I do not care if I have to regrind it all over, it's actually kinda fun. But most people don't feel that way.

We all know people that spent 5 hours in there doing a first clear. We all know people that grinded that arena only to get a prosperous (KEKW) fire staff in the end or someone with such bad RNG they had to run vMA 100 times before getting X weapon.

Most people don't like challenging content and don't wanna "git gud", they just want the weapon and never go back.

Hopefully they change how the reward works, like the undaunted chest or a token system, before this goes live.

As for myself, I will enjoy going back!

Yeah, I’d be all for the implementation of a token or coffer system. RNG can be a pain, and working toward something with a concrete concept of when the grind will end is preferable.

Communication could also be better. Like if they had stated in more like “Our data shows there has been a decline in the number of players running arenas, so to revitalize these parts of the game we will be adding new Perfected versions of Master and Maelstrom weapons that will start dropping in Greymoor. The current arena weapons will now be available in normal mode.” Maybe fewer people would have assumed they were entitled to a free gear upgrade? Although to be fair, Brian was very quick to clarify.

That does not sound any better.

I still hear: Your current vMA drops will be downgraded to nMA drops so we can make you refarm vMA just because.

Oh, you don't have to runfarm vMA, because it will just screw you a little to not have an extra one piece bonus, but the next guy that does the same thing after Greymoor that you did years ago when the content was harder, will now get a better drop than you. So just try not to care.

Just adding the nMA and not screwing over the vMA runners would be enough to "raise the floor" and help out those that can't or don't want to do vMA. No reason at all to not change the vMA weapons except as a middle finger to those of us that have run it.

I believe you're misunderstanding what Wheeler wrote. They are changing the reward structure so more casual players can get those weapons (AKA raising the floor).

To avoid people running only normal to get the weapon, they need to incentivize people to also run it on veteran, hence they are bringing back the second bonus they took away (raising the ceiling).

Is that a good idea? Yes.

Now the part that people don't like: they will not transfer your vMA to perfected if you got it before X date.

Indeed, that's not ideal. People worked hard to get those weapons and it is indeed an "easy" fix in the data table to upgrade them to perfected.

Don't forget this is a MMO and it has some grinding elements to it. This change doesn't "take" anything away from you but offers you the possibility to grind for an extra 2-3 % dps increase. It will not be game breaking but it will indeed be irritating for some of the players.

Hopefully, they will also rework the reward system and the other sets that drop in vMA to make it more attractive.

Also, @ZOS_BrianWheeler you should take a look at how Grinding Gear Games (GGG/Path of Exiles) devs communicate buffs/nerfs to the community. Some of the backlash from this set of news were pretty easy to spot, you might wanna work on rewording some stuff next time!

hackdrag0n

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

Your analogy makes no sense in the context of this discussion. When you go to a dealership and fork over your hard earned money, you know exactly what it is you are paying for. vMA is a lottery, you never know what you're going to get, which is why this change will anger a lot of long term players. We already purchased 100, 300 or even more tickets and won our prize. Now we have to play again because you have to compete for DPS spots in many vet trials guilds given that the more DPS you have the easier the content becomes.

The price in this analogy is the time and effort to obtain the gear, including the effects of RNG. It sounds like you are mad that others will have a newer, slightly faster car, and will get chosen for groups where you are left out? I don’t think this will be the case if these perfected weapons follow the pattern of Blackrose, Cloudrest and Sunspire gear. Expect to see a 1pc bonus (2-2.5% damage) added to sets that are typically used back bar (where 20-25% of damage is done) and we’re talking about a ~0.5% DPS gain. On an 80k parse that is 400 DPS. Spending 30 minutes practicing on a dummy will increase most players’ DPS by more than re-farming Maelstrom. It’s certainly not going to be enough difference to make or break your ability to complete any content. There’s also the fact that 95% of players here are saying they refuse to set foot in Maelstrom for the new version, so it sounds like it will remain a level playing field for the vast majority.

Your analogy is still broken. You don't go to a car dealer and tell them to roll the dice and take a random amount of money out of your bank account for it. And yes I know how to use a dummy, and have spent many hours on them to improve my DPS. I'm just saying that an 80k player with a non perfected player will feel disadvantaged if they loose their spot to an 81k player with a perfected one which means everyone is going to end up farming it for hours on end again.

Personally I'm pissed because I think they're lying about the reasoning behind it. I think they're just trying to get us to re-run old content because it's easier and cheaper than coming up with new stuff.

jetplane_18

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I don't get this. All the existing vma and vdsa weapons on live were earned in the veteran version. How is this change fair or reasonable?

karekiz

Simple:

Normal = Unperfected
Vet = Perfect RNG
Flawless = Perfected with choice of weapon / Trait.

Xologamer

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

sry but wtf is this no ONE RLY NO ONE requests this ***

[Edited for profanity]

Vicinia

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

Vicinia wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Are you aware that healing isn't all that big of an issue but rather the naturally high health pools and the abstinence of being burstable for most of the time, due to casttimes on ults, lack of offensive CCs.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I tend to agree, I now regularly see top players 1vXX and take no damage despite simultaneous multiple debuffs and ultimates. If anything you need to look at how much damage LOS and structures absorb with players playing ring-a-rosie around and in structures. It's simply ridiculous and it favors heavy armor to a point of unfairness.

Lol ok.

....He knows that medium armor affords more survivability right? Just because one is tanky doesn't automatically equal heavy armor 😐

Noooo not at all, we run around in iron-man Suits with 100k vigor tooltips. It has nothing to do with the fact that we're Up against heavy attack/Jesus beam spammers who give us free cc immunity with javelin at full health...

Nope we can't get 30k resists in med/light, no sir 🙂

They're gonna get heavy armor nerfed in no time with this nonsense. Because we totally can't wear fury/other heavy armor sets on jewelry and weapons amirite🤣😂

If you chase people around rocks spamming HA and/or Jesus beam while doling out cc immunity you deserve to get got 🙁

Strider__Roshin

Considering the fact that had to complete the content on vet to get these weapons to begin with it doesn't make any sense why they aren't automatically upgraded to perfected. We've already earned these weapons. Unless you're locking the perfected version behind a new hard mode this is just laziness at the player's expense.

Red_Feather

Next move is the increase gear cap so you get to refarm all your sets.

karekiz

T3hasiangod wrote: »

They failed to introduce some new mechanic to get these Perfected sets. Like I mentioned above, many end game players would be fine with doing a Hard Mode vMA for the Perfected sets. Or even a Flawless run for Perfected sets. It's not that we can't farm for the new set. It's that we don't want to farm because it's 4 year old content that many of us find boring.

Retooling an old about 5 year old instance is 100% out of the radar. It would be like making a Hard Hard mode Vet AA if they made Perfected Vet AA gear. Its simply a waste of time.

Making a required flawless run is essentially running the exact same thing. I already clear with flawless on chars, so what is the exact difference?

I can see essentially making Flawless or Flawless no Sigil mean you can pick your weapon. While vet base clears are totally RNG for perfected, and normal would be RNG non perfected.

Lord_Eomer

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Do not do this or atleast allow three weapon to exchange for perfected version

strata2

The vMA weapons previously had the additional stat of perfected weapons. They removed/nerfed this. Now they are putting it back into the game and saying you need to re-run the content again.

How is this different than converting all perfected gear you have to the non-perfected version each patch so that you need to re-farm it again on vet?

GrumpyKlam

hackdrag0n wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

Your analogy makes no sense in the context of this discussion. When you go to a dealership and fork over your hard earned money, you know exactly what it is you are paying for. vMA is a lottery, you never know what you're going to get, which is why this change will anger a lot of long term players. We already purchased 100, 300 or even more tickets and won our prize. Now we have to play again because you have to compete for DPS spots in many vet trials guilds given that the more DPS you have the easier the content becomes.

The price in this analogy is the time and effort to obtain the gear, including the effects of RNG. It sounds like you are mad that others will have a newer, slightly faster car, and will get chosen for groups where you are left out? I don’t think this will be the case if these perfected weapons follow the pattern of Blackrose, Cloudrest and Sunspire gear. Expect to see a 1pc bonus (2-2.5% damage) added to sets that are typically used back bar (where 20-25% of damage is done) and we’re talking about a ~0.5% DPS gain. On an 80k parse that is 400 DPS. Spending 30 minutes practicing on a dummy will increase most players’ DPS by more than re-farming Maelstrom. It’s certainly not going to be enough difference to make or break your ability to complete any content. There’s also the fact that 95% of players here are saying they refuse to set foot in Maelstrom for the new version, so it sounds like it will remain a level playing field for the vast majority.

Your analogy is still broken. You don't go to a car dealer and tell them to roll the dice and take a random amount of money out of your bank account for it. And yes I know how to use a dummy, and have spent many hours on them to improve my DPS. I'm just saying that an 80k player with a non perfected player will feel disadvantaged if they loose their spot to an 81k player with a perfected one which means everyone is going to end up farming it for hours on end again.

Personally I'm pissed because I think they're lying about the reasoning behind it. I think they're just trying to get us to re-run old content because it's easier and cheaper than coming up with new stuff.

If you loose your DPS spot in a core to someone pulling 1K more damage than you on a dummy, the problem was never your DPS!

John_Falstaff

@WrathOfInnos , you're looking at the issue from the standpoint of stats. But in reality, it's a problem of invested time and perceived gratification for the effort. Which is what the game's all about, to think of it. So, people have invested their time to run veteran Maelstrom, for rewards worthy of effort put into veteran mode. First, ZOS decided that veteran isn't worth as much and took away bonuses from existing sets, essentially nerfing them. Now, ZOS have decided that no, veteran clear is worth better weapons. This is where problem lies: now, our current weapons will be rewards worthy of time invested into normal Maelstrom. Weapon in your hands was earned in veteran; it must conform to standards set for reward for veteran content, because content didn't change, it didn't grow any more difficult. Why the update is so insulting is because now, to deserve weapons that are now deemed worthy for veteran clear, we must run veteran again despite the fact we did it already. I'm okay working harder for better weapons, I'm okay with new vMA HM, but I'm not okay with having to prove again that I earned my weapons in vMA and not nMA - when new standards for invested effort and reward are set, they better not belittle my already invested time, else it'll inevitably be a perceived loss. Not acceptable for a game.

Dracane

Hear hear. This sounds absolutely amazing.
You acknowledge that healing needs to be reduced a bit while acknowledging that damage shields can not be treated the same as heals anymore. The crit resistence changes sound very interesting. Maybe base crit resistence will be high enough and the impenetrable value so down to earth, that other traits become an option again. That would be exciting.

So does this change also affect perfected asylum weapons?

EDIT: Sad to see all this negativity because Maelstrom weapons are not being upgraded. Having a purpose to go there again is alright with me. The positivity from the other changes has more weight to me.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler We need no negativity for Greymoor. Let it be a good and happy update for everyone. Updating these arena weapons would make everyone happy without the need to refarm them.

Vaoh

I mean lol. This Dev team is something else.

Superkraut

So @ZOS_BrianWheeler
You are saying that the weapons will not be AUTOMATICALLY upgraded to perfected Versions. Could this mean that there might be a way to do so manually.

Lord_Eomer

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I do not want to.deconstruct my all farm arena weapons, why are u being unfair?

JinxxND

Can they instead of nerfing healing, nerfing healing received to not hurt small scalers/solo players but affect big groups that already have an abundance of healing being spammed as is

Darktrox

I really dislike how ZoS hasn't even comunicated anything at all regards this subject that is being bombed out here, Why does it have to be like this? couldn't we just be happy with the other stuff that sounded somewhat promising, rathing than just ruin it by punishing your veteran players by rewarding them with... nothing?

I don't know anyone that asked "Hey... do you know what it would be cool? that all the weapons I spent, gold, time and nervs to get would be downgraded to the normal version and add a new version of this weapons for the vet version! so players would be rewarded by being beginners on the arena and we would have ... nothing! we'll just have to grind another version slighty better the same way we just grinded these! so instead of taking alook of the new trials and the more endgame content we can tackle it, we'll need to just prepare farming this old content again with a disheartning RNG!

PLEASE. RECONSIDER.