Update 26 Combat Preview

Unknown_Redemption

Skorro

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

It has taken months of running your arena to finally get a flamestaff - are you actually *** serious?

Urgh depending on these notes may be taking another looong break 🙄

[Edited for profanity]
Second edit because I can't spell in my rage

taojones27b14_ESO

This is trash

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

run these instances a ton and have so many items...ones I worked to get

techprince

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

This is not a wise decision.

FierceSunshine

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

This is made me angry enough that I came on to these forums to post my displeasure for the first time EVER 🤦🏻‍♀️

THIS IS UPSETTING. I farmed vDSA for that damn bow for MONTHS. Same thing with vMA!!! What the is the reasoning here? We’ve already put in countless hours farming this content and this is how we are repaid? I read this as “Tough crap to you players who have been on here for years and worked hard to get your completes and get your weapons, go refarm all the content you’ve completed” Wow. Really not happy. This is insulting. Way to give a big middle finger to all of us who spent the months farming when perfected wasn’t available.

WrathOfInnos

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Oh I read them, and I still don’t understand the emotional responses. The fact is that you can keep all your existing weapons and experience no change. And if you’d like some more of them, then great they are now even easier to farm on normal.

Are people just upset that the non-vet players now have access to these same weapons? You had exclusive access to them for 4 1/2 years, and I’d hope became a better player from the time spent in vMA. No reason to keep the rest of the players down at this point.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

nk125x

Rome1984 wrote: »

Tfw you realize we were better off with Wrobel😞

So true ................

angelofdeath333

Vicinia wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Are you aware that healing isn't all that big of an issue but rather the naturally high health pools and the abstinence of being burstable for most of the time, due to casttimes on ults, lack of offensive CCs.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I tend to agree, I now regularly see top players 1vXX and take no damage despite simultaneous multiple debuffs and ultimates. If anything you need to look at how much damage LOS and structures absorb with players playing ring-a-rosie around and in structures. It's simply ridiculous and it favors heavy armor to a point of unfairness.

Lol ok.

....He knows that medium armor affords more survivability right? Just because one is tanky doesn't automatically equal heavy armor 😐

Noooo not at all, we run around in iron-man Suits with 100k vigor tooltips. It has nothing to do with the fact that we're Up against heavy attack/Jesus beam spammers who give us free cc immunity with javelin at full health...

Cinbri

Does 5pc sets will also get adjustments or it strictly monster sets?

LiquidPony

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Please refer to them as nMA Weapons now, thankyouverymuch.

LucyferLightbringer

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Unacceptable. Simply no. I did that work. I suffered through it countless times. I do not want to repeat it ever. Simply NO.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Let a normal version of these weapons drop on non vet difficulty runs. But why should us vet players be punished, please upgrade existing weapons or make it possible to upgrade them ourselves.

Monsieur

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

You’re trolling, right?

ATreeGnome

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Bad decision.

xaraan

monkey36948 wrote: »

I personally agree with everything that's been posted other then the impen changes.
So let's start there. Adding crit resist to base and nerfing impen sounds great on paper right? Yes but it does have some issues that just looking at it like that doesn't solve them. Currently the "meta" is heavy armor with S&B backbar for most setups. These setups are already fairly tanky and adding these changes will make them even tankier. With the current setup everyone has to run impen. With the new setup these tankier builds can swap to divines/infused or sturdy/reinforced. This will allow them to either pull more dps or be even tankier. With the current meta this will make that even more of an issue than it is now. My proposal? Make it where if someone is using 5 piece+ of heavy armor their damage will take a flat 25% nerf. This will make it to where players don't want to sacrifice that much damage in pvp. It won't affect pve since only tanks run 5+. I believe this will still keep an incentive for people who want to sacrifice damage to be tanky while also allowing light/med armor to shine in builds based for it. Which will allow more diversity then just an impen change.

I agree with some of what you say here.
I barely see a need for impen now on a truly tanky build in pvp, maybe lean more into it on the offensive tanky builds. God help you if you are going to give my pure tanks existing impen on top of the sturdy gear they are running.

My idea would be different though. I think light armor with some attention to extra mit and shield use and mobility can be in a pretty good spot. My LA builds in pvp actually feel pretty tanky considering the damage they output. It's medium that the problem.

I've said it before, I'll say it here. They need to take the stat that adds sneak bonuses to Medium armor, keep those b/c it's a good niche thing (for PvE mostly) to be on medium armor, but add Impen to medium armor on top of it. That gives you a pve and pvp use to that line of bonuses without benefiting one playstyle or the other exclusively.

From an RP perspective it works as well: I think the concept/idea of a medium armor wearer is someone that is more dexterous, like an active combatant or rogue style where even if you were to get a hit on them, it wouldn't be the best hit you could b/c of their movements which would translate into them not taking the intended hit even when it lands. Meaning in game terms: the chance of a crit on them being lower.

This prevents HA or LA tanky builds from benefiting from free impen and gives medium armor a reason to exist in pvp outside of a few builds like ganking or rolling.


Also, not on impen: but have to add, the arena weapon changes are bad. Existing weapons should be upgraded.

Savos_Saren

I don't get it. If ZOS is increasing the baseline of crit resistance and decreasing the value of impen… won't it still require you to have the same amount of impen gear?

GrumpyKlam

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Oh I read them, and I still don’t understand the emotional responses. The fact is that you can keep all your existing weapons and experience no change. And if you’d like some more of them, then great they are now even easier to farm on normal.

Are people just upset that the non-vet players now have access to these same weapons? You had exclusive access to them for 4 1/2 years, and I’d hope became a better player from the time spent in vMA. No reason to keep the rest of the players down at this point.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

The biggest problem is the confusion around all combat changes in the past years and the lack of communication the combat devs have with the community.

Some of us remember when you had to farm before transmute and the "old" vMA weapons with two bonuses that got taken away.

Don't get me wrong here, I do not care if I have to regrind it all over, it's actually kinda fun. But most people don't feel that way.

We all know people that spent 5 hours in there doing a first clear. We all know people that grinded that arena only to get a prosperous (KEKW) fire staff in the end or someone with such bad RNG they had to run vMA 100 times before getting X weapon.

Most people don't like challenging content and don't wanna "git gud", they just want the weapon and never go back.

Hopefully they change how the reward works, like the undaunted chest or a token system, before this goes live.

As for myself, I will enjoy going back!

Kolzki

Arena weapons aside the update sounds positive.

The monster set changes look good. Please don't add penetration to mag dd sets. It's fine for pvp focused set but we already hit the penetration cap with no effort in pve with light armour passives. The tremorscale change look interesting. Maybe not in trials if up time isn't 100% but maybe useful in dungeons.

Adding crit resist to battle spirit is a much asked for change. It shoujld help newer players in pvp and let people drop in withought a complete gear change to join the pugs. The previous comment on tanky builds focusing more into damage is a valid one but we'd need to see how it balances. I wonder how it will effect crit builds and khajiit.

Werewolf updates are appreciated. Werewolves are currently pretty bad in pve and werewolf form in pvp is just a big arrow that says "focus me!".

Major_Lag

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I don't get it. If ZOS is increasing the baseline of crit resistance and decreasing the value of impen… won't it still require you to have the same amount of impen gear?

No, because (in theory) it would be more viable to run other traits instead.
Divines/infused to increase your offensive stats (and thus also heals) more, or reinforced/nirnhoned, or sturdy... you get the idea.

You would only need/want to run all impen if you really wanted to keep the same amount of crit resist, instead of compensating for it in other areas of your build.

MurderMostFoul

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

My question:

Current 7 gold Impenetrable provides 1806 Crit Resist. How much Crit Resist we get from will 7 gold Impenetrable + base Crit Resist in U26?

This is what I am most curious about. It would be very ZOS of them to make players even more tanky if both values don't even out, or add up to less than the current total.

The new total should be equal or less than the old one. That, combined with about an effective 20% healing reduction in PvP, should make for much more risky combat.

Prrasha

monkey36948 wrote: »

My proposal? Make it where if someone is using 5 piece+ of heavy armor their damage will take a flat 25% nerf. This will make it to where players don't want to sacrifice that much damage in pvp. It won't affect pve since only tanks run 5+.

Untrue.

If you think this fixes things, add it as an effect of Battle Spirit, and don't screw over PvE players for PvP.

Unless you think that sets like Rattlecage, Thunderbug, Storm Knight, Dreugh King, Medusa, Truth, 7th Legion, Yokeda/Berserking, and all the other DPSing heavy sets never get used by anyone?

Also, there are enough people asking if group finder is "broken" because the DPS queue is so long. Making "casual" PvE tanks even more uncommon is a horrible idea.

Lady_Sleepless

It's really great to know that all of my Master and vMA weapons are now completely useless. Thanks. Farmed these years ago, I don't want to have to do it again.

DrJekhyde

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »
Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

AH HAHAHAHAHAHA... what a slap in the face for absolutely no reason other than... actually I can't think of a good reason. This makes zero sense.

hackdrag0n

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

Your analogy makes no sense in the context of this discussion. When you go to a dealership and fork over your hard earned money, you know exactly what it is you are paying for. vMA is a lottery, you never know what you're going to get, which is why this change will anger a lot of long term players. We already purchased 100, 300 or even more tickets and won our prize. Now we have to play again because you have to compete for DPS spots in many vet trials guilds given that the more DPS you have the easier the content becomes.

roflcopter

They should have just made a new solo dungeon tbh.

xaraan

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I don't get it. If ZOS is increasing the baseline of crit resistance and decreasing the value of impen… won't it still require you to have the same amount of impen gear?

Yes, this seems like a change just for the benefit of players not willing to learn the game, like most changes zos has been floating lately.

It will be good for players that don't know or don't bother to make pvp gear to just come in on their divines gear and not be as squishy without making a player in all impen any stronger.

Superkraut

@T3hasiangod had a good Idea in his YouTube Video regarding the weapon changes. Pretty much saying that they could add the perfected Bonus to the current version of the weapons and rename those and add new normal versions to the game. They would need to code new weapons either way, so why not this way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXDChdBn_Iw

sdh91885

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

This is indicative of a larger problem with this game. I've been playing this game since launch, and as you can see by my soul shriven status, I've been pretty quiet about many of the things that bother me. That's because I just deal with it and move on. Well, I'm sick of dealing with it and moving on.

A lot of what you've announced here IS exciting. I like the idea of base crit resist, seriously, has anyone ever intentionally used Invigorating? I like that you're going back and fixing things you got wrong the first time around. But, let me give you a pointer that should help you avoid going back and fixing yet another thing you've broken. Give us our perfected versions.

Do you understand how much time we have all sunk into this game? Just to get the vMA firestick/bow alone is the same amount of time I've sunk into standalone titles. When you nerf a perfectly fine set into the ground, how do you do that? When you take a set from nothing to BiS, how do you do that? Don't BS us and tell us you can't do it. We earned those weapons already, they ONLY drop from vMA and we've all done vMA.

I have 18 toons, 1 for the story and 18 for PvP, but I take them all into trials when the mood fits. I love playing different styles, and builds, that requires a lot of gear...that requires a lot of farming. THIS is the crux of what is wrong with this game. To make a build viable, I need to sit on it for weeks as I work to farm the gear I need for the build and longer still to farm my untradeable/unsellable/unbuyable/unbankable transmute stones. I and everyone here and everyone who has just quietly gone along for years have dumped days, probably weeks worth of time into farming. Waiting to get stones in my rewards for it to be viable and I don't want to be dumping days into farming the right trait or the gold to buy the right trait when I should be playing the game to enjoy it now, not enjoy it later. And now, that we've all gotten through the most painful and frustrating grind of them all, you're going to make us do it all over again.

I want to enjoy this game, but I think a lot of us may just have to deal with it and...move on.

WrathOfInnos

GrumpyKlam wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

So it seems like there are 3 groups of people, all being affected in different ways with the perfected arena weapons change.

Players without arena weapons: Just got a large buff, casual or new players can finally use Malestrom Staves and Bows. The DPS floor has been significantly raised. Vast majority of the population, but apparently none of these people have forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that don’t like doing arenas: Entirely unaffected by the change. They have the exact same gear and stats before and after Greymoor. Infuriated by this, and apparently make up a majority of forum accounts.

Players with Arena weapons that like doing arenas: Willing to play the game, and will be rewarded with minor upgrades for doing content they enjoy. Small buff to the DPS ceiling (1-2% max). Apparently very few of us in this category, but seemingly the target audience for the perfected weapons.

Or maybe you could read all the responses? Quite a few stated that they had never completed vMA and still disagree regarding current weapons not being adjusted to reflect the perfected versions.

Maybe you would see people, like @Inklings who runs vMA quite often and enjoys it who states no, this is not an okay change.

I enjoy vMA myself. That doesn't mean I want to refarm 13+ weapons, plus the transmutes to go with them, plus the mats to upgrade them by doing the exact same content. A maelstrom weapon is the reward for completing veteran maelstrom arena. Come update 26 all my maelstrom weapons will reflect rewards for completing normal maelstrom arena, effectively trivializing all the time and effort I spent in the veteran instance.

Oh I read them, and I still don’t understand the emotional responses. The fact is that you can keep all your existing weapons and experience no change. And if you’d like some more of them, then great they are now even easier to farm on normal.

Are people just upset that the non-vet players now have access to these same weapons? You had exclusive access to them for 4 1/2 years, and I’d hope became a better player from the time spent in vMA. No reason to keep the rest of the players down at this point.

Or is the problem that a toy exists and they won’t get it handed to them for free? Seems like a new low for the era of instant gratification. When Olorime became the better version of SPC everyone had to do the content if they wanted it. Same thing for Lokkestiiz replacing War Machine. This time it’s nowhere near as impactful, and there’s really no reason you’d have to farm it, unless you’re pushing for world record scores.

When a new model year of car comes out we don’t call the dealership and demand a free upgrade. “It’s just not fair, I paid the same price last year and now there is a newer and better version!” And continuing that analogy, yes “casuals” can now get the equivalent of your old used car easier and cheaper than you paid when it was new. That is how the world works.

The biggest problem is the confusion around all combat changes in the past years and the lack of communication the combat devs have with the community.

Some of us remember when you had to farm before transmute and the "old" vMA weapons with two bonuses that got taken away.

Don't get me wrong here, I do not care if I have to regrind it all over, it's actually kinda fun. But most people don't feel that way.

We all know people that spent 5 hours in there doing a first clear. We all know people that grinded that arena only to get a prosperous (KEKW) fire staff in the end or someone with such bad RNG they had to run vMA 100 times before getting X weapon.

Most people don't like challenging content and don't wanna "git gud", they just want the weapon and never go back.

Hopefully they change how the reward works, like the undaunted chest or a token system, before this goes live.

As for myself, I will enjoy going back!

Yeah, I’d be all for the implementation of a token or coffer system. RNG can be a pain, and working toward something with a concrete concept of when the grind will end is preferable.

Communication could also be better. Like if they had stated in more like “Our data shows there has been a decline in the number of players running arenas, so to revitalize these parts of the game we will be adding new Perfected versions of Master and Maelstrom weapons that will start dropping in Greymoor. The current arena weapons will now be available in normal mode.” Maybe fewer people would have assumed they were entitled to a free gear upgrade? Although to be fair, Brian was very quick to clarify.

Sabretusks

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

So... part of me hopes this is a total bait statement and will be later followed by “Your current VMA and DSA weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions. HOWEVER, you will be able to access free change tokens at the achievement vendor to manually upgrade them to Perfected.”

Here’s to hoping