Update 24 Combat Preview

Jodynn

Rungar wrote: »

Animation cancelling for dps has always suppressed this otherwise great game. Nothing will change until that does.

Eso has the worst player retention of any mmo ive ever seen and i think its largely because of that one bug holding it back.

-players dont understand thow hey got wrecked from an animation cancelled combo and thus blame skills which then get nerfed to oblivion and back, which everyone cries about...and gets changed again.

-players cant do the dlc dungeons

why would they stay if they arent either welcome in pvp or pve unless they master this bug, which since most are elder scrolls players likely wont do.

please address the root problem. ultimates dont need cast times. You need a global timer that is actually global.

eso isnt dead, it's golden age hasent even begun yet.

- Animation cancelling isn't really an issue unless you are bad or don't understand the underlying mechanics behind it or both; you don't completely cancel anything they have tells but they are just quick; figure out what it is instead of pointing fingers and complaining about something proved over and over to not be a problem and to be a MECHANIC.

- DLC dungeons aren't an issue even kind of, I can solo many and I help teach mechanics and carry people with little to no dps, it isn't about not being able to do them you just aren't putting in the time to understand how to dps/heal/tank and to understand mechanics of the dungeon, stop being ridiculous on your own personal bias.

There is a global cool down, that's why you can't cast a skill faster than 1 second; it's that way for a reason, and no, light attack/bash/heavy attack doesn't count because that's not a skill, that's a weave as they have explained many times over player and dev base.

The one point I agree with that ultimate(s) don't need a cast time, cast times are just stupid.

As for everything else in Update 24, it doesn't really matter much about how we clarify specifics on what might happen as it will depend on how they change things when the update actually happens. Give your suggestions and your feelings sure, but do it in a calm manner with substantial causations and evidence; Flying off the handle isn't productive, focus and give reasonable data with an understanding of your personal feelings towards a subject that is meaningful but also look at the rest of the quality of the game with perspective to other players and desires otherwise you are just crying about yourself and not really providing anything.

tplink3r1

Person 1: I dislike animation cancelling because of X and Y
Person 2: HAHAHA LOL YOU JUST SUCK AT IT L2P NOOB
I can't stand people with such low IQs.

Rungar

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

Animation cancelling for dps has always suppressed this otherwise great game. Nothing will change until that does.

Eso has the worst player retention of any mmo ive ever seen and i think its largely because of that one bug holding it back.

-players dont understand thow hey got wrecked from an animation cancelled combo and thus blame skills which then get nerfed to oblivion and back, which everyone cries about...and gets changed again.

-players cant do the dlc dungeons

why would they stay if they arent either welcome in pvp or pve unless they master this bug, which since most are elder scrolls players likely wont do.

please address the root problem. ultimates dont need cast times. You need a global timer that is actually global.

eso isnt dead, it's golden age hasent even begun yet.

- Animation cancelling isn't really an issue unless you are bad or don't understand the underlying mechanics behind it or both; you don't completely cancel anything they have tells but they are just quick; figure out what it is instead of pointing fingers and complaining about something proved over and over to not be a problem and to be a MECHANIC.

- DLC dungeons aren't an issue even kind of, I can solo many and I help teach mechanics and carry people with little to no dps, it isn't about not being able to do them you just aren't putting in the time to understand how to dps/heal/tank and to understand mechanics of the dungeon, stop being ridiculous on your own personal bias.

There is a global cool down, that's why you can't cast a skill faster than 1 second; it's that way for a reason, and no, light attack/bash/heavy attack doesn't count because that's not a skill, that's a weave as they have explained many times over player and dev base.

The one point I agree with that ultimate(s) don't need a cast time, cast times are just stupid.

As for everything else in Update 24, it doesn't really matter much about how we clarify specifics on what might happen as it will depend on how they change things when the update actually happens. Give your suggestions and your feelings sure, but do it in a calm manner with substantial causations and evidence; Flying off the handle isn't productive, focus and give reasonable data with an understanding of your personal feelings towards a subject that is meaningful but also look at the rest of the quality of the game with perspective to other players and desires otherwise you are just crying about yourself and not really providing anything.

there's plenty of data but asking blind men to see, when seeing will mean a loss for them, is the task of tasks.

LuckyLuke

Even the citizens of Velyn Harbor have been asking for all this silly weaving to stop, which has turned them to drink.

When the citizens of Tamriel are telling you there is a weaving problem, one might do well to listen. So say the Velyn Harbor Militia!

Calboy

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

Maybe because he's good at his job? Why does his background in pvp ruin his ability to understand combat development, if anything it helps. They could of hired outside the company, but they went in house. That's fantastic.

Having a background in pvp is more important than pve anyway, in a game that has skills share the effects between the 2, you would want someone who has a strong idea of balance and rule sets in mind. Pve requires less effort when dps/sustain is almost the only thing that matters in so much of the end game pve DD content.

Only thing he is good at is balancing things towards the pvp side.Not quite sure how this bit isn't obvious.

I don't know. I've not been impressed with Nightblade's new Incap giving... silence? or the Ulti cast times. Or the changes to clench. The DoTs are way too powerful now. Etc. Not saying there isn't anything good being done, but like there has been some really bad stuff.

As we have seen some do tend to praise it,and it's been from the pvp side.I think it is leaning towards lower skill cap for sure,which is equally disappointing.

I love the players in this game. Whenever something changes they don't like they get all elite and blame pvp and 'low skill cap'. Let's ignore the fact that most pve content in this game is a walk in the park with overpowered abilities and a super low skill set required. Pvp on the other hand offers the most dynamic gameplay with a huge variation of builds that cater to everyone personal preference.

Also, screw nightblades. I hope they stay in the dumpster for the rest of this games existance.

Domy217898

I'd would like the stamina versions of the other classes much better if 2H had wrecking blow become a Surprise Attack clone. But instead of 5% physical penetration, it gives a 5% damage increase and a halved cast time on the next DIRECT NON-ULTIMATE CLASS ability after two swings (and changing the animation of the current swings into downward swings with red tracers coming from it as well as a slight shake of the camera when each of them land to sell the effect). This could even apply to the dual wield tree if reliable 2H pvp spammables are an issue.

malistorr

I'm for splitting up pve and pvp all together. Have different skils for each. And while they're at it, make a stam and a mag version of each class with separate/different skills to match. Or have each class be only stam OR mag and make all the skills related to that. If you're going to do this probably split up CP for pve vs pvp as well. And gear sets as well. There are a few sets where the buff is for pvp, while most appear to be more pve-related. Let a toon have a gear setup for each and both are remembered. And make some sets for pvp and some for pve without trying to intermingle everything and screw it up royally. You could control both aspects of play independently and make both really great instead of having the 2 tied together and having everything be a half-assed mess.

MehrunesFlagon

malistorr wrote: »

I'm for splitting up pve and pvp all together. Have different skils for each. And while they're at it, make a stam and a mag version of each class with separate/different skills to match. Or have each class be only stam OR mag and make all the skills related to that. If you're going to do this probably split up CP for pve vs pvp as well. And gear sets as well. There are a few sets where the buff is for pvp, while most appear to be more pve-related. Let a toon have a gear setup for each and both are remembered. And make some sets for pvp and some for pve without trying to intermingle everything and screw it up royally. You could control both aspects of play independently and make both really great instead of having the 2 ties so much together and having everything be a half-assed mess.

I am too,but at this point it looks like it's one or the other.

Deathlord92

Calboy wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Little disappointed please I’m begging you to buff stamblade those nerfs we took hit our class hard. Then there’s cast time I can hardly ever land my incap now they just break free of fear right into a dodge roll buff stamblade please 🙏

Eso is much more enjoyable with less stamblades

I take it you get killed by stamblade regularly then lol

Sergykid

i really hope they dont't listen to more than half of u

sentientomega

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Little disappointed please I’m begging you to buff stamblade those nerfs we took hit our class hard. Then there’s cast time I can hardly ever land my incap now they just break free of fear right into a dodge roll buff stamblade please 🙏

Eso is much more enjoyable with less stamblades

I take it you get killed by stamblade regularly then lol

I should think everyone who's every PvPed has, they've the perfect toolkit for that. The element of surprise in combat is very powerful, and stamblades also have the talent for that.

Deathlord92

Sergykid wrote: »

i really hope they dont't listen to more than half of u

Same here a lot of players here don’t seem to know what there talking about.

Deathlord92

sentientomega wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Little disappointed please I’m begging you to buff stamblade those nerfs we took hit our class hard. Then there’s cast time I can hardly ever land my incap now they just break free of fear right into a dodge roll buff stamblade please 🙏

Eso is much more enjoyable with less stamblades

I take it you get killed by stamblade regularly then lol

I should think everyone who's every PvPed has, they've the perfect toolkit for that. The element of surprise in combat is very powerful, and stamblades also have the talent for that.

Use a detect pot I dare you that what 45 seconds where the stamblade can’t cloak if you fail to kill that stamblade in 45 sec then it’s a l2p issue. I say this because I don’t know a single good stamblade that spams cloak some don’t even use shadow disguise one of my stamblades my orc is using dark cloak heal version. The stamblade that spam cloak are usually gankers or generally inexperienced players.

Jodynn

If you are struggling with stamblades stop bitching about it on the forums and learn how to counter it because it's easy AF; use any aoe skill in their direction when they cloak away, done, use a detect skill or potion ( it's not 45 seconds btw that'd be stupid OP it's like 12~15 or something, ample time either way ), or don't die in one hit and stun them and kill them, if they can burst you down you can burst them down... counterplay... so hard...

IF you think it's that overpowered play as one for a week, and see how many things can knock you out of cloak, and how hard it is to get away successfully against a decent player; not only will this show you hey, it's not that overpowered, but also show you it's faults and how easy it is to counter.

Deathlord92

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

If you are struggling with stamblades stop bitching about it on the forums and learn how to counter it because it's easy AF; use any aoe skill in their direction when they cloak away, done, use a detect skill or potion ( it's not 45 seconds btw that'd be stupid OP it's like 12~15 or something, ample time either way ), or don't die in one hit and stun them and kill them, if they can burst you down you can burst them down... counterplay... so hard...

IF you think it's that overpowered play as one for a week, and see how many things can knock you out of cloak, and how hard it is to get away successfully against a decent player; not only will this show you hey, it's not that overpowered, but also show you it's faults and how easy it is to counter.

Oh sht yeah sorry he right about detect pots lasting about 15 seconds I was on about major savagery lasting been long day lol. My detect pots gives me major savagery to.

Marginis

Hooray... more buffs for classes that don't need buffs, and "fixing" things to worsen QoL...

Finedaible

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[...] You will notice that your stamina bar will drain gradually instead of in chunks, and functionality will remain basically the same; we lowered the cost of Sprint, and fixed an old bug where you could sprint infinitely after mounting. [...]

Is this referring to the MOUNT infinitely sprinting, or is there some exploit that I don't know of where the CHARACTER can infinitely sprint? I sure hope you mean the latter because you still get knocked off your mount at the slightest attack if your mount has no stamina; if you make mounts stop sprinting after their stam bar is depleted, you will be killing a major QoL aspect just for the sake of fixing some bug that has been considered a feature all these years. Low mobility for new characters in this game is already super boring, and riding lesson scrolls are a scummy answer for that.

Major_Lag

Finedaible wrote: »

Is this referring to the MOUNT infinitely sprinting, or is there some exploit that I don't know of where the CHARACTER can infinitely sprint? I sure hope you mean the latter

Unfortunately, if the PTS is any indication, they are indeed referring to the former (click link for relevant thread).

TequilaFire

Games that penalize mount stamina usually provide a means to restore by feeding mount, this game does not so it would be be really bad to have mounts terminate sprinting on stamina depletion. Most likely that is why original devs left infinite mount sprinting in place.

sentientomega

Deathlord92 wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Little disappointed please I’m begging you to buff stamblade those nerfs we took hit our class hard. Then there’s cast time I can hardly ever land my incap now they just break free of fear right into a dodge roll buff stamblade please 🙏

Eso is much more enjoyable with less stamblades

I take it you get killed by stamblade regularly then lol

I should think everyone who's every PvPed has, they've the perfect toolkit for that. The element of surprise in combat is very powerful, and stamblades also have the talent for that.

Use a detect pot I dare you that what 45 seconds where the stamblade can’t cloak if you fail to kill that stamblade in 45 sec then it’s a l2p issue. I say this because I don’t know a single good stamblade that spams cloak some don’t even use shadow disguise one of my stamblades my orc is using dark cloak heal version. The stamblade that spam cloak are usually gankers or generally inexperienced players.

I don't PvP, I'm speaking academically now.

I was speaking of the element of surprise as a *pre*-combat benefit, cloak's unrealiable, and aren't there better detection options? Like those that come with a critical chance boost?

Major_Lag wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Is this referring to the MOUNT infinitely sprinting, or is there some exploit that I don't know of where the CHARACTER can infinitely sprint? I sure hope you mean the latter

Unfortunately, if the PTS is any indication, they are indeed referring to the former (click link for relevant thread).

They do know how this is going impact every single player, right?

Ah well, back to character jogging, like in the old days, before I knew we had infinite mount sprint.

Kaunas

As a mage main im really looking forward to actual "magic damage" not so much for DoT damage. When you rain down a hail of pure fire energy it should hit like it

Deathlord92

sentientomega wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Little disappointed please I’m begging you to buff stamblade those nerfs we took hit our class hard. Then there’s cast time I can hardly ever land my incap now they just break free of fear right into a dodge roll buff stamblade please 🙏

Eso is much more enjoyable with less stamblades

I take it you get killed by stamblade regularly then lol

I should think everyone who's every PvPed has, they've the perfect toolkit for that. The element of surprise in combat is very powerful, and stamblades also have the talent for that.

Use a detect pot I dare you that what 45 seconds where the stamblade can’t cloak if you fail to kill that stamblade in 45 sec then it’s a l2p issue. I say this because I don’t know a single good stamblade that spams cloak some don’t even use shadow disguise one of my stamblades my orc is using dark cloak heal version. The stamblade that spam cloak are usually gankers or generally inexperienced players.

I don't PvP, I'm speaking academically now.

I was speaking of the element of surprise as a *pre*-combat benefit, cloak's unrealiable, and aren't there better detection options? Like those that come with a critical chance boost?

Yeah the detect pots I use also give me major savagery that is crit boost when I see a ganker he or she deserves to die 😎

MuzikxMak3r

I feel quite frustrated. I think if we are going to be given changes every two weeks to our character make up, we need to be given more storage space, so that we are capable of storing 12 pieces of every set in the game.. as it is now, I am spending millions of gold every two weeks, to upgrade or change to absorb changes being made. I understand changes need to be made, but, can we pick one class and fix it. then move to the next ?

All the while we are still sitting at 700 spaces in a Notable … When are we getting more space ??

Major_Lag

MuzikxMak3r wrote: »

can we pick one class and fix it. then move to the next ?

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
Because PvP exists, you can't overhaul "1 class at a time", that would just horribly break PvP.

Class changes need to be made with the overall game balance in mind - you can't just look at a particular 1 class in one update and ignore the rest of the classes entirely.

MuzikxMak3r wrote: »

All the while we are still sitting at 700 spaces in a Notable … When are we getting more space ??

Most likely never - the 700 item limit is already about the maximum that the game can reasonably handle on consoles, due to technical limitations.

XIIICaesar

When Vet ranks transitioned to Champion Point, any V16 gear was only converted to CP150 & all gear that was max level before conversion had to be refarmed. I've 8 tons multiple sets on each &I think I'm not alone in not wanting to refarm so much gear. So even though CP redesign isn't finished yet are we going to have to work about that? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

zyk

XIIICaesar wrote: »

When Vet ranks transitioned to Champion Point, any V16 gear was only converted to CP150 & all gear that was max level before conversion had to be refarmed. I've 8 tons multiple sets on each &I think I'm not alone in not wanting to refarm so much gear. So even though CP redesign isn't finished yet are we going to have to work about that?

This is incorrect. VR16 gear became CP160 gear when VR levels were removed.

Drako_Ei

ZoS... half of my endgame guild left the game with the previous patch... dont screw up again.

If you want class identity, make us use class skills, not mages guild/soul magic nonsense

WrathOfInnos

Drako_Ei wrote: »

ZoS... half of my endgame guild left the game with the previous patch... dont screw up again.

If you want class identity, make us use class skills, not mages guild/soul magic nonsense

I'd rather not be forced into using anything. Looking for some balance between skills really, with similar damage from various options. The buff to Entropy and Soul Trap would have worked out really well if so many class skills (Liquid Lightning, Twisting Path, Winter's Revenge) hadn't been nerfed at the same time.

Major_Lag

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The buff to Entropy and Soul Trap would have worked out really well if so many class skills (Liquid Lightning, Twisting Path, Winter's Revenge) hadn't been nerfed at the same time.

Agreed.

It's not the buff to non-class skills that was the problem - in fact, on its own it was a great thing, because it would have greatly broadened the diversity of viable builds.

Unfortunately, this coincided with many class abilities getting nerfed into the ground, or even destroyed outright (Power Surge, I'm looking at you ).

So instead of increasing build diversity, it had the opposite effect of destroying build diversity.

Un-nerf the class skills and everything will be great again

Wayshuba

It disappoints me to say this, but I do not have confidence in what is coming.

I have played quite a few MMOs over the years. All of them had balancing issues that were addressed over time. What ZoS is doing is not balancing (and the fancy "audit" language isn't fooling anyone), every patch is a complete cluster on the skill meta. For a five year old game, we should be at a point where it is minor adjustments to a skill here and there now.

This year has been a complete run-over of races, classes and skills that has left these as road kill. While I may be wrong, it really appears as if the ZoS combat team hasn't a clue of what they are doing. To test something for five weeks, get tons of feedback from good players they were overdoing it, go live anyway, then say we overdid it - sorry, how do you think you look to players right now?

It is reaching a point with me where it is frustrating. I have enough things to do in game without such major changes to the skill meta every patch. This isn't balancing - not five years into a game.