Update 24 Combat Preview

Varkal2112

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Person 1: I dislike animation cancelling because of X and Y
Person 2: HAHAHA LOL YOU JUST SUCK AT IT L2P NOOB
I can't stand people with such low IQs.

I can't stand people that think the game should be balanced around the abilities of low-skilled players and not around the abilities of high-skilled players. It's no one's fault you can't weave but your own

Skoomah

Let’s consider some context and history.

The game morphs and changes for the sake of change. Sometimes fairly. Sometimes unfairly.

1. People complained about one type of dot, being bleeds. The damage itself if stacked, would require a player to go full melee and apply it right in your face. Just remember the player has to walk up to you and the counter is to kite, control them through crowd control, blow them up from range before they get to you, etc.

2. ZOS listens to player feedback and lowers bleed damage in one patch. The complaints still came in.

3. ZOS listens and gives everyone access to high dot damage. Bleeds mechanic which is initially designed as a tank killer is completely reworked to function just like another dot. All dots in the game now can tick for 3,000-5,000 damage per second. The dot damage for each skill is increased and now the ranged magicka dots do just as much damage as a melee stamina applied dot... and they all function the same, only difference is application from range or melee

4. Everyone gets access to the dots and they all function the same, but that’s still not enough. People are still complaining, even though the counter is to wear more resistances and slot a cleanse or run with a healer.

5. ZOS will capitulate and lower dot damage next patch. Healing hots will stay the same. Just remember, they were increased this patch.

So what is the net result?

Everyone in PvP is wearing more heavy armor and are building more tanky than ever before just to survive long enough to be able to click on the purge button and enough time to get in a few counter punches. Also, the one go to tank killer was how bleeds used to work, but now it’s just another dot.

These players will be even more tanky with higher healing tool tips, without the old bleed mechanic to worry about.

So you see what happens when people refuse to learn the counters to initial game design? Sometimes the complaints on the forums are valid. Sometimes they are not. It’s up to ZOS to make that judgement.

In the meantime... can we please get some consistency in terms how our characters function patch to patch?

Wayshuba

Skoomah wrote: »

In the meantime... can we please get some consistency in terms how our characters function patch to patch?

This right here is what I think is frustrating people lately. This changes aren't slight. They are complete swings all over the place which completely change how characters play from patch to patch. This is also the kind of stuff that will eventually bite them in the backside with player retention.

I kind of had a funny feeling we were heading down this patch with the racial changes. When you make game changes that have you give out race and name change tokens, they you are doing something wrong. It means you are fundamentally changing the core of the game design.

As an earlier poster said, it really appears that ZoS has no clue what they are doing with how major the swings are. These aren't the typical - bleeds are too powerful, let's tweak the damage down 10%. Still not enough, let's move it down another 6% this patch. There we go. Instead it's "let's drop the damage of bleeds by 50% and up all other damage types by 100%"

I have been playing this game since Feb 17, and this is the part that is really starting to get to me. With 16 characters, I don't want to reset the meta every dang three months. I didn't even bother this patch because it just frustrated me to have to log into a character, re-learn new rotations, and have to chase new gear sets - all to know ZoS was going to swing for the fences again the next patch, ignore long time good player feedback about changes, and just do it again in three months.

I can't tell you how many videos when U23 was on PTS from the decent players out there that many players watch that DoTs were too powerful, counters weren't balanced for them (i.e., Purge costing too much for delivering so little) and that it eliminated class identity. But don't worry peeps, this is PTS so subject to change.

And...... it didn't. It went live and here we are in U24 with ZoS saying that DoT damage might have been a bit high but we want to leave the healing where it is. What?!? So in other words, you listen to NONE of the feedback. This reminds me of another MMO I used to play that has survived, but lost a TON of players because of devs doing this exact type of thing.

You may think I am overstating the possibility of a downturn here but, I have seen the same thing in so many MMOs that moved them into just getting by mode. It's a game, people play it to have fun. Not to have to relearn a game every three months.

desertknights

I like the sound of this. Looking forward to what these changes are.

Glass

How is "quality of life additions" and "fixed an old bug where you could sprint infinitely after mounting" part of the same paragraph?

sentientomega

Given the date of Scalebreaker's release, and the current date the PTS is being set up for, would I be right in thinking they're now going for two months between updates, instead of three?

Always assuming the PTS cycles are only the usual month-long exercises, of course.

RebornV3x

Wayshuba wrote: »

It disappoints me to say this, but I do not have confidence in what is coming.

I have played quite a few MMOs over the years. All of them had balancing issues that were addressed over time. What ZoS is doing is not balancing (and the fancy "audit" language isn't fooling anyone), every patch is a complete cluster on the skill meta. For a five year old game, we should be at a point where it is minor adjustments to a skill here and there now.

This year has been a complete run-over of races, classes and skills that has left these as road kill. While I may be wrong, it really appears as if the ZoS combat team hasn't a clue of what they are doing. To test something for five weeks, get tons of feedback from good players they were overdoing it, go live anyway, then say we overdid it - sorry, how do you think you look to players right now?

It is reaching a point with me where it is frustrating. I have enough things to do in game without such major changes to the skill meta every patch. This isn't balancing - not five years into a game.

I feel the same way especially if you do endgame content and are anybody but HODOR had a great group last patch good dynamic had put up some really good scores on Xbox NA but changing up the skill meta every 3 months is a major disruption we spend a few days relearning our rotation and reparsing on dummies and trying to find the optimal group setup etc just for it all to go out the 3 months from now

I'm fine with getting new gear or the newest monster set every three months but this roller coaster of skill buffs and nerfs is very harmful to the above average veteran groups players that aren't hardcore elite pros but people that know how to play and can clear all but the hardest of content without too much trouble.

Darkmage1337

Wayshuba wrote: »

It disappoints me to say this, but I do not have confidence in what is coming.

I have played quite a few MMOs over the years. All of them had balancing issues that were addressed over time. What ZoS is doing is not balancing (and the fancy "audit" language isn't fooling anyone), every patch is a complete cluster on the skill meta. For a five year old game, we should be at a point where it is minor adjustments to a skill here and there now.

This year has been a complete run-over of races, classes and skills that has left these as road kill. While I may be wrong, it really appears as if the ZoS combat team hasn't a clue of what they are doing. To test something for five weeks, get tons of feedback from good players they were overdoing it, go live anyway, then say we overdid it - sorry, how do you think you look to players right now?

It is reaching a point with me where it is frustrating. I have enough things to do in game without such major changes to the skill meta every patch. This isn't balancing - not five years into a game.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438791/the-chisel-vs-the-hammer-an-open-letter-to-zos/p1 (The Chisel VS The Hammer -- Nerfmire -- October 2018)

Same thing -- another year, another thread -- same situation.

karios525

Once again the combat team are utterly clueless, if you are going to 'balance' focus on how the nerfs will impact the majority of the player base i.e. the casual players not the top 0.000001%. No more of the gillam can still complete this or that easily nonsense, you have never been able to balance anything. Every patch you ignore the community and step by step the claasses become weaker, less interesting, and combat becomes more tedious, really hope when the next patch goes live you take a big hit to subs and players, don't listen to the players aside from the few whining bad pvp players who want stuff nerfed because it killed them,. You reap what you sow, not a wonder so many players are leaving to play BDO, far superior ciombat, just a shame about the pvp focus. This game used to be fun, now it is a nonsense, even as tank, though the shifting meta has less impact am tired with your subtle nerfs to sustain and resistances, don't think I haven't noticed. Definitely become worse since Woeler and Gillam sold out and joined the zos team, shame on you for ignoring the players you are supposed to represent.

Czekoludek

Since Gilliam joined and Brian take over combat lead role, each major patch is a disaster. They overbuff, overnerf, rip classes from they uniqueness. Trully it is a good year for being a casual in ESO and terrible for anyone who wants to progress harder content.
The biggest issue is inconsistence of changes, lack of any vision and this stupid "change ability effectivness by 60%" approach

Agalloch

Eso Update 24 has the biggest nerfs I evar saw in a MMO ( I play MMO-s since Ultima Online came out).

I hope Update 25 will fix what ZOS broke with Update 24 .





English is not my native language.

Shantu

Wow! Now that I've had a chance to spend several hours on the PTS, what a nebulous pile of crock this "preview" turned out to be. It's like patting you on the back with one hand and he's stealing your wallet with the other. We who support this game, and his paycheck, deserve better than this. This guy's credibility is gone.

Heatnix90

From the U23 Q&A thread:

Heatnix90 wrote: »

After reading through the responses more thoroughly, I'm just going to go ahead and set my expectations for Dragonhold and Update 24 on the floor, that way I won't be disappointed by whatever nerfs balance changes get tossed into the game.

Somehow, it will still be disappointing

Somehow, they managed to dig under the floor and put out a flaming pile of garbage. I continue to be surprised and amazed by the level of incompetence. Almost makes me wish for Wrobel's return.


Almost

Gnortranermara

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

First off, let’s talk about Damage over Time (DoT) abilities. In Update 23, we made changes to “over time” abilities to make them more competitive and align to a numerical standard. This resulted in more variety in builds compared to Update 22. However, it’s swung the pendulum a bit too far in the other direction. As we’ve stated before, our audit pass doesn’t mean our numbers are engraved in stone, and this is a case where we missed the mark and are looking to correct that.

Now that 5.2.3 is finally out and we know what's (probably) going to be making it to live servers: a 40% nerf is not a "correction". It's another mistake, yet again swinging "the pendulum a bit too far in the other direction". And 60% cost modifier to AOE is absurd - especially for ground AOE that will miss many damage ticks on moving targets. Watching this team work is like groundhog day, the same repeated mistakes over and over and over again. Learn from the past. Learn some nuance. Learn some subtlety. Changes of such extreme magnitude are ridiculous.