Update 24 Combat Preview

Rungar

what good is class identity/playstyle if everyone only chooses skills they can efficiently animation cancel for dps?

Major_Lag

Rungar wrote: »

what good is class identity/playstyle

You mean we still have any left?

Magicka: all classes use nearly identical builds with mostly non-class DoTs.
Stamina: all classes use nearly identical builds with mostly non-class weapon abilities.

Rungar

Once you get to a certain point there is only one playstyle in this game and as such everyone is built around and only around that. If they want to improve class identity then you know that has to go.

CambionDaemon

Slightly apprehensive about changes to Sorcerer after their spontaneous Surge change. But something needs to be done with the original four classes, not sure why they didn't mention Nightblade or Templar, at least they are finally looking at the Warden though.

sentientomega

Assuming "play how you want" still means something to you of the development team, I do hope that extra care will be taken to ensure that self-healing and general survivability are not compromised, and thus, that solo play is still respected. An MMO makes grouping possible, it does not mean that FF XIV becomes the order of the day.

And, why is infinite mount sprinting being removed? Why, after so many years of it being so useful to literally everyone, regardless of playing mode?

BrightOblivion

I know there are quite a few people screaming to kill the sorc pets or render them utterly useless because "only scrubs use pets" or "pets are bad and interfere with targeting" or "I want more features for my chosen playstyle," or any number of other reasons, but I would implore ZOS not to do so. I've mained a sorc for the entire time I've played (since just before Morrowind's release) and almost all of that, save a few months where I was in a guild that forbade using them, has been as a petsorc - typically a single pet build, most often with the Volatile Familiar whom I've affectionately (and sometimes irritably) nicknamed Rambo due to his charging ahead, his growling as he attempts to carve a wide path of destruction through our enemies and, of course, his staunch refusal to put on a shirt.

Have I been frustrated at times by the pet AI, Rambo's stun, or trying to see through the Tormentor/Matriarch's wing flaps? Certainly. Do I wish that the pet could be single barred to alleviate Sorc's well-known struggles with bar space, even if that meant making the pets more temporary summons? At times, although certain things would need to be done in order to maintain petsorc's place as a summoner of daedric familiars to do their bidding, versus the very short-term nature of the nightblade's shade or the necromancer's skeletal minions and to avoid turning upkeep on the pet build into a complete nuisance while fighting bosses in veteran dungeons and trials. Likely, the cast time and cost would need to be reduced to reflect its temporary nature, while also keeping the duration long enough that you aren't having to cast the thing every time you turn around.

I've tried other classes, and even other forms of magsorc, but, to me, they just feel hollow and lacking in comparison- not even by virtue of in-game strength but by virtue of their appeal to me. Nothing else fits that Master of the Arcane and Summoner of Daedric forces archetype that appeals to me so greatly. I realize that there are a number of people who loathe pets with every fiber of their being, either playing with them or playing against them, and I would never demand ZOS make pets mandatory for playing as a sorc. All I ask is that I and my preferred playstyle be afforded the same courtesy and not be devalued, discarded, or deemed as lesser-than, simply because I'm using a pet.

Camb0Sl1ce

Since youll be touching sorc, this isn't really combat related but the purple glow sorcs used to have from bound aegis/armaments in my opinion should be brought back. To me that was part of a sorcs identity.

Ingenon

Thanks for the update! Please consider offering a 7 day free/cheap skill respec so that those of us with Dragonknights, Wardens, and Sorcerers can adjust our skills based upon your changes when Update 24 is released.

red_bird

Thank you for giving us a general idea of what to expect from the next update.

--- I need to take that back. Now that patch notes 5.2.0 are out with huge nerfs sprinkled throughout, I feel like you actually didn't give me an idea of what to expect. I thought "more narrow in focus" meant tweaking, not another complete revamp.

Heatnix90

Rungar wrote: »

what good is class identity/playstyle if everyone only chooses skills they can efficiently animation cancel for dps?

Oh boy here we go again with the animation canceling BS.

We get it, you're bad at animation canceling. Doesn't mean it's cheating/exploiting/griefing. Get over yourself already.

BennyButton

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

Rungar

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

what good is class identity/playstyle if everyone only chooses skills they can efficiently animation cancel for dps?

Oh boy here we go again with the animation canceling BS.

We get it, you're bad at animation canceling. Doesn't mean it's cheating/exploiting/griefing. Get over yourself already.

You seem very sensitive to this.

Aurie

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

sentientomega

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Hear Hear!

But, as he may also be the last surviving Dwemer, I think I'd only ask him to make an affirmation, on pain of letting skeevers run amok throughout his ruined Dwemeri domicile.

But, seriously, I do hope he understands that PvP is not the whole game and is *certainly* not played by everyone, this is not BDO, where PvP is the only meaningful endgame.

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

It's impossible to balance PvP, anyway; it's always a question of something should be nerfed because it works and the complainant had to respawn, or buffed because it doesn't.

Just imagine if the AI had its own forum membership base. "Nerf trinity!" threads would be all the rage...

luen79rwb17_ESO

Here's my hopes up that I can get my magicka characters back. This dot spam crap and weapon swapping like the wheel of fortune is definately not my definition of action oriented combat.

LuckyLuke

This just confirms to me that the design and dev teams have no idea what they are doing. What is the flavour for this month?

Parrot1986

LuckyLuke wrote: »

This just confirms to me that the design and dev teams have no idea what they are doing. What is the flavour for this month?

Totally agree, for me it’s more worrying they have a plan to buff single target dots, reduce AOE dots then do it only to realise it’s not right so going to change it again. Skills like Liquid Lightning and blazing spear were buffed for several patches then merged the next. Makes no sense.

They must do testing on their own and must have seen the tests from PTS to know this is where it’s going.

Now we will be in a place where they change class skills and change non class abilities which never ends up positive.

This smacks of no real vision or plan regardless of what’s talked about when something they plan to do goes so wrong and was obvious from Wk 2 of PTS they just say they will be making changes to its i.e nerfing it. I’m not a fan of this patch but I’d rather they committed to something and execute the next phase of the plan rather than back down and overcompensate by nerfing to the ground like they normally do.

Racials, WW, bleeds, DW enchants, single target dots and AOE dots have all been “audited” over the last year or so and every one has led massive issues and require further changes to either nerf of improve.

MashmalloMan

@ZOS_BrianWheeler When looking at Sorc's, please consider the awful transparent visual effects of Lightning Form and morphs.

This game has a strong focus on visual appeal for your characters with the outfit system, costumes, dyes and 100's of styles. Most people are tired of the fact that they can't see their character on their own screen.

Delete those effects and give us back the Bound Armor glowing eyes and aura.

MashmalloMan

sentientomega wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

Maybe because he's good at his job? Why does his background in pvp ruin his ability to understand combat development, if anything it helps. They could of hired outside the company, but they went in house. That's fantastic.

Having a background in pvp is more important than pve anyway, in a game that has skills share the effects between the 2, you would want someone who has a strong idea of balance and rule sets in mind. Pve requires less effort when dps/sustain is almost the only thing that matters in so much of the end game pve DD content.

sentientomega

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

Maybe because he's good at his job? Why does his background in pvp ruin his ability to understand combat development, if anything it helps. They could of hired outside the company, but they went in house. That's fantastic.

Having a background in pvp is more important than pve anyway, in a game that has skills share the effects between the 2, you would want someone who has a strong idea of balance and rule sets in mind. Pve requires less effort when dps/sustain is almost the only thing that matters in so much of the end game pve DD content.

Maybe he is good, but that doesn't help those of us he doesn't seem all that inclined to serious acknowledge actually exist and mean something, but instead, take away. Infinite mount sprinting being the elephant in the room here, how do you feel about losing that facility? Now, ask everyone else how they feel about losing that for what is little more than an anti-zerging initiative.

It's like they only think the game really consists of Cyrodiil, Imperial City and Battlegrounds, and that anything else is magnificently irrelevant.

It's a classic case of minority government, appeasing their own base first and largely ignoring the rest. It's high time the PvE-PvP war ended, too. Balancing the two modes separately would help enormously, to say nothing of actually gaining more players' goodwill, or shouldn't that mean anything? Yes, it would be an effort, quite an effort, but worth it if really brings the playerbase together!

Oh, everyone except sore losers in PvP encounters, because they'll never be happy over any balance struck, as I indicated in my post above.

KageNin

They saw results of testing on PTS, didn't care at all. Delete eclipse please.

Rungar

Animation cancelling for dps has always suppressed this otherwise great game. Nothing will change until that does.

Eso has the worst player retention of any mmo ive ever seen and i think its largely because of that one bug holding it back.

-players dont understand thow hey got wrecked from an animation cancelled combo and thus blame skills which then get nerfed to oblivion and back, which everyone cries about...and gets changed again.

-players cant do the dlc dungeons

why would they stay if they arent either welcome in pvp or pve unless they master this bug, which since most are elder scrolls players likely wont do.

please address the root problem. ultimates dont need cast times. You need a global timer that is actually global.

eso isnt dead, it's golden age hasent even begun yet.

Skoomah

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

What's the stink with Werewolves lately? I don't play one and just don't get it....so many posts and threads about "ZOS refuses to address Werewolves", yet I haven't seen any supporting information regarding what should be addressed; it's always, "Buff Werewolves" or "No love for Werewolves".

I would rather see a full skill line added for Vampires than hear any more talk about Werewolves, which still do excess amounts of bleed damage and oh my 'Lanta that Howl! So unbelievable annoying and over-spammed...

Just stick to asking for a vampire skill line. The rest of your post is garbage.

Not going to repeat pages and pages of feedback in multiple posts and sections of the forums.

Major_Lag

sentientomega wrote: »

Infinite mount sprinting being the elephant in the room here, how do you feel about losing that facility? Now, ask everyone else how they feel about losing that for what is little more than an anti-zerging initiative.

Uhhhh... we already lost 30-seconds-long Major Expedition in what was obviously a PRO-zerging initiative, since now the skill no longer gets cancelled when engaging in combat!

MehrunesFlagon

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

Maybe because he's good at his job? Why does his background in pvp ruin his ability to understand combat development, if anything it helps. They could of hired outside the company, but they went in house. That's fantastic.

Having a background in pvp is more important than pve anyway, in a game that has skills share the effects between the 2, you would want someone who has a strong idea of balance and rule sets in mind. Pve requires less effort when dps/sustain is almost the only thing that matters in so much of the end game pve DD content.

Only thing he is good at is balancing things towards the pvp side.Not quite sure how this bit isn't obvious.

evoniee

so next patch stamina gonna be the top dog huh.
id like to get dswing and onslaught, in every death recap.

4k damage/2 sec (before reduction) = this is over powered

spamable stun with ~90% damage of an incap, easy to line up another burst ---- ultimate with bigger damage than incap with ignore resist and max penetration for 12 sec = fine

oh boi

Ozazz

all i have to say is don't make dodge roll any worse than it already is! interested in the changes and if it's anything good id might consider coming back, also Templar must be addressed. eclipse need's to get gutted as the aoe snare they use too

ESO_Nightingale

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

Maybe because he's good at his job? Why does his background in pvp ruin his ability to understand combat development, if anything it helps. They could of hired outside the company, but they went in house. That's fantastic.

Having a background in pvp is more important than pve anyway, in a game that has skills share the effects between the 2, you would want someone who has a strong idea of balance and rule sets in mind. Pve requires less effort when dps/sustain is almost the only thing that matters in so much of the end game pve DD content.

Only thing he is good at is balancing things towards the pvp side.Not quite sure how this bit isn't obvious.

I don't know. I've not been impressed with Nightblade's new Incap giving... silence? or the Ulti cast times. Or the changes to clench. The DoTs are way too powerful now. Etc. Not saying there isn't anything good being done, but like there has been some really bad stuff.

MehrunesFlagon

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler serious question: do you, as a PvP designer acknowledge that PvP and PvE are vastly different and trying to balance between the two will literally never happen?

The question is, what is a PvP designer doing as general combat team leader?

Can @ZOS_BrianWheeler swear hand on heart that he is not guilty of any bias?

Why make a PvP lead the general head of combat development, anyway?

Maybe because he's good at his job? Why does his background in pvp ruin his ability to understand combat development, if anything it helps. They could of hired outside the company, but they went in house. That's fantastic.

Having a background in pvp is more important than pve anyway, in a game that has skills share the effects between the 2, you would want someone who has a strong idea of balance and rule sets in mind. Pve requires less effort when dps/sustain is almost the only thing that matters in so much of the end game pve DD content.

Only thing he is good at is balancing things towards the pvp side.Not quite sure how this bit isn't obvious.

I don't know. I've not been impressed with Nightblade's new Incap giving... silence? or the Ulti cast times. Or the changes to clench. The DoTs are way too powerful now. Etc. Not saying there isn't anything good being done, but like there has been some really bad stuff.

As we have seen some do tend to praise it,and it's been from the pvp side.I think it is leaning towards lower skill cap for sure,which is equally disappointing.

Tael

Great to see this moving forward addressing current concerns and looking to improve the feel of classes overall ..