Update 24 Combat Preview

FrancisCrawford

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

xWarbrain wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_BrianWheeler ,

Could you please skip any changes you plan for the Warden? It's fine the way it is. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Someone who most likely has far more experience on Mag & Stam Wardens in PvP and PvE than you.

?

I like the idea of Dive getting buffed.

FrancisCrawford

Tatanko wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

fixed an old bug where you could sprint infinitely after mounting

If this refers to the ability to sprint infinitely while mounted, please do not make this change. NO ONE wants this change, and I truly and surely mean NO ONE.

The product manager who oversees stamina riding lesson scrolls probably wants it.

Outside of her/him, you're correct. This is pure QoL reduction.

FrancisCrawford

Eweroun wrote: »

This will reign in some of the damage we’re seeing in PVP, but should not inhibit the completion of trials, dungeons, and arenas.

Why do I have the fear that PVE will be the victim again?

Because what we've been told about DoTs sounds like a nerf. Today's optimal builds will have their damage reduced and their costs go up.

FrancisCrawford

I like Spell Crit. Not everybody runs pots that include it.

I particularly like it while healing. And I often heal with templars.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Lots of good news there. A few concerns:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We’ve also adjusted our standards of Area of Effect-based DoTs to once again do similar damage to single target counterparts, but with a much greater cost.

Whyyyyy? I probably said it 100 times during last PTS cycle, ~30% less damage and ~30% higher cost was too extreme. The idea itself is great, the problem was the extreme implementation. 15% less damage and higher cost would be fine. Subtle tweaking works better than pulling out a sledgehammer every time something needs fixing.

Also, ground-targeted AOE DOT's (wall, path, spear, etc) should not be treated the same as targeted DOT's that stick to the enemy (Splitting trap, reflective light, dk fire breath, etc). Ground-targeting should have a slightly more generous modifier (say, 10%) to make up for the fact that many ticks will miss mobile targets.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In Update 24 we are giving Dragonknights, Wardens, and Sorcerers several updates to reinforce class identity, and in some cases, grant new gameplay options.

Cool. But can Templar get like, 1 thing maybe? Something quick and easy, like changing Sun Fire's buff from Major Prophecy to Minor Force, Berserk, or Heroism? Prophecy is redundant in most builds and all of these alternatives would open up some new build options for Templar to hold us over until you get around to them in U25 (or beyond)!

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Lastly in Update 24, we are adding several quality of life additions...... fixed an old bug where you could sprint infinitely after mounting.

That is a QoL nerf. Why? Instead, why not take this opportunity to make a major QoL improvement across the board and eliminate the stam cost for all out-of-combat running (mounted and on foot). Instead of a cost, just stop regen when out-of-combat (like blocking). Running slower is not fun. This little mobility boost would greatly increase the enjoyability of the game without any serious effect on combat balance. (Just increase the stam damage caused by taking damage to keep stam relevant for mounts.)

While I'm talking mobility QoL, could you please undo the QoL nerf to PvE sets that give Major Expedition (VO and FG)? I understand nerfing Major Expedition duration in PvP, but these are PvE-specific sets so the shorter duration is just an unnecessary QoL nerf.

BennyButton

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion entirely. Warden has enough healing through the entire green balance line, Arctic Blast for whatever god awful reason, and animal companions skills when the animal "despawns". Healing is not an issue. The off balance is actually useful. BUT the way in which to achieve it is unsatisfactory because we already report that SCR's damage bonus at range is unreliable because of Scorch. Both of these should be adressed and the range requirement for the new off balance reversed to 12 meters or less away from a target.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, as you may or may not know bosses have off balance immunity for 15 seconds after the duration ends, so again, as i said, putting off balance on a spammable is stupid.

ESO_Nightingale

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion entirely. Warden has enough healing through the entire green balance line, Arctic Blast for whatever god awful reason, and animal companions skills when the animal "despawns". Healing is not an issue. The off balance is actually useful. BUT the way in which to achieve it is unsatisfactory because we already report that SCR's damage bonus at range is unreliable because of Scorch. Both of these should be adressed and the range requirement for the new off balance reversed to 12 meters or less away from a target.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, as you may or may not know bosses have off balance immunity for 15 seconds after the duration ends, so again, as i said, putting off balance on a spammable is stupid.

This is a PvP focused Change.

BennyButton

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion entirely. Warden has enough healing through the entire green balance line, Arctic Blast for whatever god awful reason, and animal companions skills when the animal "despawns". Healing is not an issue. The off balance is actually useful. BUT the way in which to achieve it is unsatisfactory because we already report that SCR's damage bonus at range is unreliable because of Scorch. Both of these should be adressed and the range requirement for the new off balance reversed to 12 meters or less away from a target.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, as you may or may not know bosses have off balance immunity for 15 seconds after the duration ends, so again, as i said, putting off balance on a spammable is stupid.

This is a PvP focused Change.

Good thing PvP is stupid and has zero relevance!

Calboy

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion entirely. Warden has enough healing through the entire green balance line, Arctic Blast for whatever god awful reason, and animal companions skills when the animal "despawns". Healing is not an issue. The off balance is actually useful. BUT the way in which to achieve it is unsatisfactory because we already report that SCR's damage bonus at range is unreliable because of Scorch. Both of these should be adressed and the range requirement for the new off balance reversed to 12 meters or less away from a target.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, as you may or may not know bosses have off balance immunity for 15 seconds after the duration ends, so again, as i said, putting off balance on a spammable is stupid.

This is a PvP focused Change.

Good thing PvP is stupid and has zero relevance!

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion entirely. Warden has enough healing through the entire green balance line, Arctic Blast for whatever god awful reason, and animal companions skills when the animal "despawns". Healing is not an issue. The off balance is actually useful. BUT the way in which to achieve it is unsatisfactory because we already report that SCR's damage bonus at range is unreliable because of Scorch. Both of these should be adressed and the range requirement for the new off balance reversed to 12 meters or less away from a target.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, as you may or may not know bosses have off balance immunity for 15 seconds after the duration ends, so again, as i said, putting off balance on a spammable is stupid.

This is a PvP focused Change.

Good thing PvP is stupid and has zero relevance!

Sigh, when will you pve players stop ruining this game for its true intended purpose? Pvp. The only reason pve exists is to gear up before the real battle begins in cyrodiil/ bgs

VaranisArano

Can we maybe not derail this thread with preemptive PVE vs PVP whining?

MLGProPlayer

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

However, with that being said I, for one, am not looking forward to MORE utility being given to DK and Warden.

"More" utility?

Magicka warden literally has ONE utility skill right now (major breach on shalks).

Shinshadow

karthrag_inak wrote: »

What about stamina-based characters? Are they going to get more of a class-identity? i.e. are we going to get more reasonable and useful stamina based class morphs?

This is VERY much an interest of mine as well. It's pretty bad that so many ultimates are magic damage based, in spite of scaling with the highest resource. Stamblades for example, only really have incap, and that drives me nuts, because that's my favorite class to play on

MakoFore

i mean this as constructively as possible- but you guys are truly incompetent. your balance process is terrible. these dot issues were brought to you- by us- on pts- welll before live- as was sloads, viper- and every other balance issue in the past- that you have still gone on with despite concerns from the community. why have a pts-if you guys just ignore the feedback time and time again.

ESO_Nightingale

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

However, with that being said I, for one, am not looking forward to MORE utility being given to DK and Warden.

"More" utility?

Magicka warden literally has ONE utility skill right now (major breach on shalks).

Magicka DPS warden in PvE only has one. Where in PvP they have utility through healer and tanking skills. I'd argue they need more PvE utility or worthwile access to it via a significant Lotus Blossom dps focused buff.

Revokus

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion entirely. Warden has enough healing through the entire green balance line, Arctic Blast for whatever god awful reason, and animal companions skills when the animal "despawns". Healing is not an issue. The off balance is actually useful. BUT the way in which to achieve it is unsatisfactory because we already report that SCR's damage bonus at range is unreliable because of Scorch. Both of these should be adressed and the range requirement for the new off balance reversed to 12 meters or less away from a target.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, as you may or may not know bosses have off balance immunity for 15 seconds after the duration ends, so again, as i said, putting off balance on a spammable is stupid.

This is a PvP focused Change.

Good thing PvP is stupid and has zero relevance!

And you think trials have more relevance lol when only 5 % maybe even less of the game's population completes the hardest achievements in pve. This isn't World of Warcraft where pve was the main aspect of the game. Questers and Roleplayers are a much bigger part of the game population sadly and nerfs don't affect them when everything in overland can be killed naked.

Chrlynsch

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

What's the stink with Werewolves lately? I don't play one and just don't get it....so many posts and threads about "ZOS refuses to address Werewolves", yet I haven't seen any supporting information regarding what should be addressed; it's always, "Buff Werewolves" or "No love for Werewolves".

I would rather see a full skill line added for Vampires than hear any more talk about Werewolves, which still do excess amounts of bleed damage and oh my 'Lanta that Howl! So unbelievable annoying and over-spammed...

Scalebreaker patched nerfed werewolf severely in pvp.

Reducing bleed damage, light attack damage, howl damage, increasing magicka costs of the heal and reducing its effectiveness at all at the same time.

Also making Packleader nerf useless for pve and pvp.

FrancisCrawford

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

However, with that being said I, for one, am not looking forward to MORE utility being given to DK and Warden.

"More" utility?

Magicka warden literally has ONE utility skill right now (major breach on shalks).

Put a heal in the rotation and Minor Toughness is added.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

However, with that being said I, for one, am not looking forward to MORE utility being given to DK and Warden.

"More" utility?

Magicka warden literally has ONE utility skill right now (major breach on shalks).

Magicka DPS warden in PvE only has one. Where in PvP they have utility through healer and tanking skills. I'd argue they need more PvE utility or worthwile access to it via a significant Lotus Blossom dps focused buff.

That version of the argument has more merit. But it's also not ridiculous to blur roles a bit and cast Budding Seeds on cooldown.

KageNin

Can't wait to see what they will brake next patch and what new bugs will be introduced.

ESO_Nightingale

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

However, with that being said I, for one, am not looking forward to MORE utility being given to DK and Warden.

"More" utility?

Magicka warden literally has ONE utility skill right now (major breach on shalks).

Put a heal in the rotation and Minor Toughness is added.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

However, with that being said I, for one, am not looking forward to MORE utility being given to DK and Warden.

"More" utility?

Magicka warden literally has ONE utility skill right now (major breach on shalks).

Magicka DPS warden in PvE only has one. Where in PvP they have utility through healer and tanking skills. I'd argue they need more PvE utility or worthwile access to it via a significant Lotus Blossom dps focused buff.

That version of the argument has more merit. But it's also not ridiculous to blur roles a bit and cast Budding Seeds on cooldown.

I feel like budding seeds really should stay as a healer and tank tool. That's my opinion. It's just that Lotus Blossom is based around light attacks which works alongside damage. Having a buff to that skill to make it more attractive (and unique) would definitely give Magden somewhat reliable access to minor toughness on allies. Though it would still lack a little bit compared to Tanks and Healers.

zyk

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Can you please clarify what you wrote about indefinite sprinting after mounting?

If it refers to indefinite sprinting while mounted, that's not a bug, that is an intended feature as stated in this ZOS AMA from 2014:

ZOS wrote:

Yes, horses can sprint indefinitely without consuming stamina. That said, stamina is still valuable for two other reasons: It protects you from being dismounted when attacked, and if you rapidly press the sprint key you will get big boosts of speed on your mount (but at a much higher stamina cost). Of note, only horse mounts have the endless sprint trait. Other upcoming mount types will have different special traits.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/1019

I guess as an absolute it could be a bug that mounts other than horses can do this, but I doubt it.

Please don't change this. It's bad enough that ZOS nerfed mounted tap sprint which was also an intended feature.

The_Saint

zyk wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Can you please clarify what you wrote about indefinite sprinting after mounting?

If it refers to indefinite sprinting while mounted, that's not a bug, that is an intended feature as stated in this ZOS AMA from 2014:

ZOS wrote:

Yes, horses can sprint indefinitely without consuming stamina. That said, stamina is still valuable for two other reasons: It protects you from being dismounted when attacked, and if you rapidly press the sprint key you will get big boosts of speed on your mount (but at a much higher stamina cost). Of note, only horse mounts have the endless sprint trait. Other upcoming mount types will have different special traits.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/1019

I guess as an absolute it could be a bug that mounts other than horses can do this, but I doubt it.

Please don't change this. It's bad enough that ZOS nerfed mounted tap sprint which was also an intended feature.

Thats what im talking about... Thank you for finding this awesome

Firebrand10

Could MagNB also be included? It desperately needs some changes.

mateosalvaje

Please add Major Sorcery to Critical Surge.

The adjustment to Power Surge has been great for healers, but DPS has lost its fluidity. Having to sacrifice skill slots, use specific potions, or equip a healing staff as adversely affected group, solo, and PVP play. That's all combat, right? Sorcers not having Sorcery makes no sense.

No sense at all.

Senseless.

TrinityBreaker

Is stamDK and stamsorc going to get more out of their kit?

Vlad9425

So Sorcs and DKs are getting their identity back are they? What about NB's? Are you even aware what you did to this class? You removed our berserk, you took our fracture from our Spammable, you made Incap one of the least effective PVP ULTs in the game, you made a fighters guild fear more powerful than our class one, you made relentless focus an empty cast etc. What's next? Are you going to take our Cloak next patch too? Its funny to me that 2 of the base classes are getting an "identity" pass but NB players get screwed again.

GrimTheReaper45

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Anyway you could go more in-depth about the intended identities for the classes?

What do you see sorcerer playing as? Will you continue to support both nonpet and pet magsorc?

Also please keep in mind that class identity is about more than just giving the class useful skills. Class identity is about giving that class a "way of playing" a style of play unique to it. Even better if those ways to play line up with the communities existing way of playing them.

JackDaniell

Its nice that Zenimax is posting this however, I would rather see Brian in game on the PTS talking and testing with players then making publicity posts for the new patch.

For 5 years I have heard/read the "we are considering your feedback" comments and now I am conditioned by Zenimax to not belleive anything posted by them on the forums unless I see it in game.

I guess what I'm saying is lets wait and see before us or Zenimax jumps to any conclusions about what this new patch will be like. History has taught me to be the discerning sceptic.

ESO_Nightingale

JackDaniell wrote: »

Its nice that Zenimax is posting this however, I would rather see Brian in game on the PTS talking and testing with players then making publicity posts for the new patch.

For 5 years I have heard/read the "we are considering your feedback" comments and now I am conditioned by Zenimax to not belleive anything posted by them on the forums unless I see it in game.

I guess what I'm saying is lets wait and see before us or Zenimax jumps to any conclusions about what this new patch will be like. History has taught me to be the discerning sceptic.

ZOS has "heard" Magicka Warden feedback... Or not. It's taken a year and a half to get to this point where they're finally addressing wardens. It's great to see a new effect on Dive since it needed one. However we have reported time and time again that Screaming Cliff Racer's current morph(increases in damage based on range) doesn't work well with Deep Fissure(our class defining and anchor skill that we play and build around) as most of us only really feel comfortable using shalks from around 10 or less meters away. it doesn't look like they've heard that feedback, or else we'd have a different proc condition for the new off balance. I'm starting to feel like our pain points don't mean jack *** to them.

xWarbrain

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

xWarbrain wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_BrianWheeler ,

Could you please skip any changes you plan for the Warden? It's fine the way it is. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Someone who most likely has far more experience on Mag & Stam Wardens in PvP and PvE than you.

?

What is your question? As someone who plays Magden 8 hours a day in Kaal, I don't want any changes to Warden. Any complaints about Warden other players have, I disagree with. The fact that he mentioned changes to the Warden made me immediately nervous about what they're going to do. My front bar is made up of all Class skills, my back bar only has 2 non-class skills. 10 Class skills I use that I'm perfectly okay with. 10 chances for them to change something that I don't want or need (plus passives).

He mentioned adding Off Balance to SCR.... no thanks, as I'm sure it will also come with a nerf to something else entirely that doesn't need a nerf. I don't think its unfair to assume adding Off Balance isn't going to be the only change to Wardens, there will obviously be more that they tweak/add/remove during PTS, plus whatever they slip in last minute (i.e. removing Sorcery from Sorcerers). It doesn't give Off Balance now, I never hit someone with SCR and thought "Gee, wish that set them off balance." My SCR hits hard as hell as it is.

xWarbrain

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Its nice that Zenimax is posting this however, I would rather see Brian in game on the PTS talking and testing with players then making publicity posts for the new patch.

For 5 years I have heard/read the "we are considering your feedback" comments and now I am conditioned by Zenimax to not belleive anything posted by them on the forums unless I see it in game.

I guess what I'm saying is lets wait and see before us or Zenimax jumps to any conclusions about what this new patch will be like. History has taught me to be the discerning sceptic.

ZOS has "heard" Magicka Warden feedback... Or not. It's taken a year and a half to get to this point where they're finally addressing wardens. It's great to see a new effect on Dive since it needed one. However we have reported time and time again that Screaming Cliff Racer's current morph(increases in damage based on range) doesn't work well with Deep Fissure(our class defining and anchor skill that we play and build around) as most of us only really feel comfortable using shalks from around 10 or less meters away. it doesn't look like they've heard that feedback, or else we'd have a different proc condition for the new off balance. I'm starting to feel like our pain points don't mean jack *** to them.

Again, I disagree with you on the use of SCR. It does its normal damage when I'm within range for Deep Fissure. Then, it does more and more damage as I back away while the enemy player thinks I'm backing up to avoid them. Great against melee range players and players that kite.

I don't need them to add something to the skill, I've already learned to use it properly. Your pain points are not my pain points.

Finedaible

I appreciate the increased effort in communication.

So, does this mean all that work buffing DoTs during Scalebreaker PTS has been for nothing? Are we now gonna spend the next months re-nerfing stuff so that it ends up the same as it was pre-Scalebreaker update (aka Gamebreaker)? Why are you giving Nightblades' skill mechanics to other classes? Nightblades were the only enjoyable class for a long time, and it feels like some of their uniqueness is being cannibalized for other classes' benefit (fear for example).

Are you gonna revert the Oblivion Foe set's nerf now that Soul Trap is gonna be re-nerfed? What was the point in any of those changes now?