We feared you'd leave addons unable to read guild history. Don't make it permanent please.

Apox

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

Jhalin

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

Apox

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

lol. the unoptimized game and server wide searches is hilariously accurate. i concede that to you.

but everything else is pretty bogus.

if your trade guild are super social and friendly, thats awesome. they'll transition nicely into being social guilds without having the looming weekly sales requirement and expectation of your leadership to always keep a trader

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

StabbityDoom

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That's just you though. I am in 8 trade guilds over two accounts. I love it.

Apox

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That's just you though. I am in 8 trade guilds over two accounts. I love it.

nothing says those guilds cant be trade focused otherwise. still, a global auction house would be a better system than the current guild traders.

Jhalin

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

rumple9

Fact of the matter is the game worked last week and doesnt work this week - noting to do with addons its to do with zos lazy programming patch

Apox

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

i understand this. however its irrelevant to what i said. you just misunderstood what i said. i never once said any gold is generated on traders. it is however take out bit by bit and deposited into the bank, where the leadership uses it to bid on a weekly trader.

the auction system would cut that step out entirely, removing roughly the same amount of gold per listing/purchase as guild traders do now, but instead of depositing this to a bank for one person to use/abuse as they see fit, it just immediately deletes that gold from the game, bit by bit, listing by listing, purchase by purchase.

so, there absolutely is a way that the auction system could make up for billions o gold weekly, because the gold that each trader uses to bid on their trader comes from the same place that the global auction house would erive its sales tax from. the people buying/selling on the trader. hence what i said about removing little bits every time you interact with a trader instead of one big ass weekly bid. please dont try to lecture me on the workings of the game when youre the one misunderstanding.

Kidgangster101

No offense as I am a console player, but I have stating for well over a year now this game needed a central AH system. I stated that this system was very flawed in numerous ways but people said I was wrong and that this system was amazing.

Now you guys are losing your add-on that console players do not have, and you guys think it is a terrible idea? But if this system is so great why should you need an add-on to use the guild trader system?

Again I'm not trying to be rude I am rather curious as we have this thread complaining about not using add-ons, and another one saying we need global AH but that one is being denied?

AlnilamE

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

i understand this. however its irrelevant to what i said. you just misunderstood what i said. i never once said any gold is generated on traders. it is however take out bit by bit and deposited into the bank, where the leadership uses it to bid on a weekly trader.

the auction system would cut that step out entirely, removing roughly the same amount of gold per listing/purchase as guild traders do now, but instead of depositing this to a bank for one person to use/abuse as they see fit, it just immediately deletes that gold from the game, bit by bit, listing by listing, purchase by purchase.

so, there absolutely is a way that the auction system could make up for billions o gold weekly, because the gold that each trader uses to bid on their trader comes from the same place that the global auction house would erive its sales tax from. the people buying/selling on the trader. hence what i said about removing little bits every time you interact with a trader instead of one big ass weekly bid. please dont try to lecture me on the workings of the game when youre the one misunderstanding.

Only half of the taxes are deposited into the guild bank. The other half goes into the void along with the listing fees.

So an auction house would have to increase taxes. I'd be ok with about 30% tax if we are not going to have bids on traders anymore.

But I prefer the guild trader system to an AH.

StabbityDoom

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

VaranisArano

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

i understand this. however its irrelevant to what i said. you just misunderstood what i said. i never once said any gold is generated on traders. it is however take out bit by bit and deposited into the bank, where the leadership uses it to bid on a weekly trader.

the auction system would cut that step out entirely, removing roughly the same amount of gold per listing/purchase as guild traders do now, but instead of depositing this to a bank for one person to use/abuse as they see fit, it just immediately deletes that gold from the game, bit by bit, listing by listing, purchase by purchase.

so, there absolutely is a way that the auction system could make up for billions o gold weekly, because the gold that each trader uses to bid on their trader comes from the same place that the global auction house would erive its sales tax from. the people buying/selling on the trader. hence what i said about removing little bits every time you interact with a trader instead of one big ass weekly bid. please dont try to lecture me on the workings of the game when youre the one misunderstanding.

I can see your point if and only if most trading guilds made their trading bids solely from their Guild Sales tax. Then, doing an Auction House would be a simple case of making the guild sales taxes also go to a gold sink for the full 7%, and players would still see 93% of the sales' worth. Effectively, there would be no change.

Problem is, most trading guilds don't fund their weekly bids on sales taxes alone. Only 3.5% of each sale goes to the Guild Bank, while the other 3.5% of that just disappears into a gold sink. Most do a raffle or an auction in order to help fund their weekly bid.

For context, I've been an officer in a trading guild before. I've also got an example from my own trading. There were a few weeks when I sold around 100k a day in one of my guild stores. I was really focusing on farming those weeks, so that's not typical of my sales, but I'll use it as an example of my maximum. Those weeks I was also in the top 10 of my nearly full trading guild, judging by the MM statistics.

Those weeks, assuming I sold around 700k+ worth in gold, my trading guild made 24,500 gold off of my sales. And I was NOT a typical seller during those weeks. I don't know what our bid was, but based on some comments, I'd guess around 2 to 3 million.

Our sales requirement at the time was 25k. For every player that met that requirement, that Guild made 875 gold off that sales tax. This is why most guilds really like doing raffles and auctions - a single 1k raffle ticket is more gold in their bank than 25k worth of sales.

In other words, while its barely possible that we might have made our trader bid every week with just guild sales tax, that would be a very "paycheck-to-paycheck" type existence. We had a non-requirement raffle, and a good auction just so that we weren't completely emptying the bank every time we bid.

So I'd argue based on my own experience in several trading guilds and based on comments when this discussion comes up on the forums, that its very likely that the gold being taken out of the economy in the weekly trader bid actually exceeds the money the guild gets from its Sales Tax, and therefore serves as a gold sink.

In that case, I'd expect the per-transaction tax to increase for players, as ZOS has obvious reasons to not want to lose a weekly gold sink without compensation. As for how much it would increase, I couldn't say without the actual data on how much trader guilds make vs how much they bid, and that's data most guilds obviously don't share. I'm sure ZOS knows. (I'd also argue that ZOS has strong incentive not to lose the social functions of trading guilds without compensation, and that its not looking likely that the game can handle the server functions of a centralized auction house, but those are somewhat tangential to gold sinks.)

EC_Rob

As a trading guild GM, I honestly have no idea how I am going to keep track of everything. Its damn near impossible to keep track of 500 people with addons... leave alone to do it without.

I really dont know why I still pay for eso+, for the first time since the release, I am seriously thinking about losing eso+ and just log in for my guilds.

And I too feel like this is the new standard. They cant seem to fix their own broken game.

With regards,

Apox

AlnilamE wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

i understand this. however its irrelevant to what i said. you just misunderstood what i said. i never once said any gold is generated on traders. it is however take out bit by bit and deposited into the bank, where the leadership uses it to bid on a weekly trader.

the auction system would cut that step out entirely, removing roughly the same amount of gold per listing/purchase as guild traders do now, but instead of depositing this to a bank for one person to use/abuse as they see fit, it just immediately deletes that gold from the game, bit by bit, listing by listing, purchase by purchase.

so, there absolutely is a way that the auction system could make up for billions o gold weekly, because the gold that each trader uses to bid on their trader comes from the same place that the global auction house would erive its sales tax from. the people buying/selling on the trader. hence what i said about removing little bits every time you interact with a trader instead of one big ass weekly bid. please dont try to lecture me on the workings of the game when youre the one misunderstanding.

Only half of the taxes are deposited into the guild bank. The other half goes into the void along with the listing fees.

So an auction house would have to increase taxes. I'd be ok with about 30% tax if we are not going to have bids on traders anymore.

But I prefer the guild trader system to an AH.

overall it should also result with each player in a trade guild just having more gold

VaranisArano wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

i understand this. however its irrelevant to what i said. you just misunderstood what i said. i never once said any gold is generated on traders. it is however take out bit by bit and deposited into the bank, where the leadership uses it to bid on a weekly trader.

the auction system would cut that step out entirely, removing roughly the same amount of gold per listing/purchase as guild traders do now, but instead of depositing this to a bank for one person to use/abuse as they see fit, it just immediately deletes that gold from the game, bit by bit, listing by listing, purchase by purchase.

so, there absolutely is a way that the auction system could make up for billions o gold weekly, because the gold that each trader uses to bid on their trader comes from the same place that the global auction house would erive its sales tax from. the people buying/selling on the trader. hence what i said about removing little bits every time you interact with a trader instead of one big ass weekly bid. please dont try to lecture me on the workings of the game when youre the one misunderstanding.

I can see your point if and only if most trading guilds made their trading bids solely from their Guild Sales tax. Then, doing an Auction House would be a simple case of making the guild sales taxes also go to a gold sink for the full 7%, and players would still see 93% of the sales' worth. Effectively, there would be no change.

Problem is, most trading guilds don't fund their weekly bids on sales taxes alone. Only 3.5% of each sale goes to the Guild Bank, while the other 3.5% of that just disappears into a gold sink. Most do a raffle or an auction in order to help fund their weekly bid.

For context, I've been an officer in a trading guild before. I've also got an example from my own trading. There were a few weeks when I sold around 100k a day in one of my guild stores. I was really focusing on farming those weeks, so that's not typical of my sales, but I'll use it as an example of my maximum. Those weeks I was also in the top 10 of my nearly full trading guild, judging by the MM statistics.

Those weeks, assuming I sold around 700k+ worth in gold, my trading guild made 24,500 gold off of my sales. And I was NOT a typical seller during those weeks. I don't know what our bid was, but based on some comments, I'd guess around 2 to 3 million.

Our sales requirement at the time was 25k. For every player that met that requirement, that Guild made 875 gold off that sales tax. This is why most guilds really like doing raffles and auctions - a single 1k raffle ticket is more gold in their bank than 25k worth of sales.

In other words, while its barely possible that we might have made our trader bid every week with just guild sales tax, that would be a very "paycheck-to-paycheck" type existence. We had a non-requirement raffle, and a good auction just so that we weren't completely emptying the bank every time we bid.

So I'd argue based on my own experience in several trading guilds and based on comments when this discussion comes up on the forums, that its very likely that the gold being taken out of the economy in the weekly trader bid actually exceeds the money the guild gets from its Sales Tax, and therefore serves as a gold sink.

In that case, I'd expect the per-transaction tax to increase for players, as ZOS has obvious reasons to not want to lose a weekly gold sink without compensation. As for how much it would increase, I couldn't say without the actual data on how much trader guilds make vs how much they bid, and that's data most guilds obviously don't share. I'm sure ZOS knows. (I'd also argue that ZOS has strong incentive not to lose the social functions of trading guilds without compensation, and that its not looking likely that the game can handle the server functions of a centralized auction house, but those are somewhat tangential to gold sinks.)

as of 2017, the ah cut in wow was 5%, and gold is significantly more plentiful in eso, so the 5% tax cut in wow should end up pulling more gold out of the economy in eso since more listings sell for larger amount of gold. but as you mentioned esos trader tax is 7%, 3.5 to the bank, 3.5 to the void. The 3.5 to the bank ultimately also goes to the void when used on a guild trader.

one other person mentioned they were fine with up to 30% tax cut without trader bids but i think thats too much. the tax number could be tinkered with to ensure it remains a good gold sink. Id be fine with probably bumping up to 10-12%

but right now as someone who plays the game content and not the guild traders, its incredibly frustrating to deal with the trader system. we all rely on TTC to see where the listing is posted at that we want, then we travel there and get mad because the posting is gone and we're either SoL or have to suffer even more eso load screens to get what we want.

Kidgangster101

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

pknecron

Gilvoth wrote: »

i dont agree with your saying "we"
myself and many others of the eso communtiy "hate" the addons and hate they are even allowed in eso.
in single player games addons are awesome and really fun and joy, but not in an MMO they are completely an open door for cheating and its been proven that with miats addon, and many others, that the ability to cheat does exist and is even still being used in eso.

heres some proof
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387011/miats-zeni-can-i-have-new-skills-please/p1

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397179/why-wont-miats-addon-die

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1

the list is never ending ...

add-ons need to be disabled Permanently and removed from eso!

No addons, I will find another game to play and they will lose my ESO+ money.

BigBragg

In before Crown Store Market Merchant.

StabbityDoom

del

StabbityDoom

You seem nice. Have a good one, Kidgangster.

Kidgangster101

StabbityDoom wrote: »

You seem nice. Have a good one, Kidgangster.

Lol are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you trying to say I'm right and we should work together? Because it seems like you are being very sarcastic instead of trying to work together to get zos to fix a major problem with this game.

I'm not being rude I'm being very serious with what I said. We all play this game (maybe not together) but without finding from all 3 platforms together the game would fall off very fast. Elswyr launched on console and the game actually seems like it isn't as populated as you would expect.

Jhalin

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

or maybe they could fix the crappy guild trader system, convert all the old traders to function like synced server wide auction house, and do away with trade guilds altogether.

I dont want to be in even 1 trade guild, but i have to if i want to sell my items reasonably quickly.

fewer trade guilds = more guild slots to actually play with people you like. "but i like my trade guild" ok dude

That is not even close to feasible

For one, this game is so poorly optimized trying to complete a global search would crash the game, without a doubt.

Secondly, trade guilds are a social aspect. Not one I’ve been in was solely business. They’re very sociable guilds with players that run all sort of content.

Thirdly, nothing would ever come close to the gold sink that trader buds provide.

If you’re too lazy or too impatient to interact with a decentralized system, that many of us enjoy, then whatever, you’re entitled to your opinion, but a global AH is not feasible on a system that’s strained to breaking by every dungeon event.

<snip>

also, as for the gold sink. where does all that gold come from? the gold comes from players buying, selling, and donating to the guild bank. buying and selling particularly. the trader takes the tax cut and deposits it directly into the bank to be used for guild trader bids.

global ah also will have a tax where the trader takes a cut. the gold will be taken out of the economy with every listing and purchase instead of one big ass lump sum every week. this is how its worked in wow since 2006 and the only complaint wows ah ever got was very slow searches and listings because too many people were using it.

It seems you don’t understand the difference between gold sources, gold exchanges, and gold sinks. Absolutely zero gold enters the economy from guild traders.

Zero, zilch, nada.

Gold traders only have gold exchanging hands or getting removed from the game.

All gold in the game comes from questing, treasure chests, looting enemy corpses, and thieving/fencing. That’s the gold that is being sunk by the billions every week through traders. Rawl’kha alone is upwards of 1 billion gold being drained.

There is no possible way for the current listing fees to make up for that.

i understand this. however its irrelevant to what i said. you just misunderstood what i said. i never once said any gold is generated on traders. it is however take out bit by bit and deposited into the bank, where the leadership uses it to bid on a weekly trader.

the auction system would cut that step out entirely, removing roughly the same amount of gold per listing/purchase as guild traders do now, but instead of depositing this to a bank for one person to use/abuse as they see fit, it just immediately deletes that gold from the game, bit by bit, listing by listing, purchase by purchase.

so, there absolutely is a way that the auction system could make up for billions o gold weekly, because the gold that each trader uses to bid on their trader comes from the same place that the global auction house would erive its sales tax from. the people buying/selling on the trader. hence what i said about removing little bits every time you interact with a trader instead of one big ass weekly bid. please dont try to lecture me on the workings of the game when youre the one misunderstanding.

I did not misunderstand anything. You implied list fees (gold sink) and guild taxes (gold exchange) are the primary method of covering a trader bid, and that they somehow offset the massive gold sink of the bid. They do not.

3.5% of the gold from every sale across the entire game is lost when someone lists an item. 3.5% remains in circulation. Billions of gold is removed on Sunday’s when bids are finalized, far more than the other 3.5% from sales, probably close to double what taxes provide. So the net gold sunk is those billions, plus the 3.5% lost from listing fees.

If you wanted to even it out, everyone would have to dump closer to 12% into the void just to list an item.

All for a system that would hardly function due to strain on the cruddy servers we have already, and a system that (if it did function) could have fully automated buy-relist programs run on it that would now have access to everyone’s listing rather than only those of a few hundred players.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Because it seems like you are being very sarcastic instead of trying to work together to get zos to fix a major problem with this game.

Your attitude is not "working together to all have the same advantages". It's purely "I don't have it therefore you shouldn't have it either".
Furthermore, while I wouldn't mind console players having access to addons, I don't see why I should team up with them for any sort of "fight for justice". Playing ESO on console is a choice they made, I don't understand why anyone would make such a choice but then again, millions of people made the choice to play on console with the full knowledge that they would have no addons and also with the full knowledge of what ESO vanilla UI looks like (there were 15 months between PC launch and console launch).
You don't hear us PC players complaining that we don't play on our couch, on our 42' screen, or that a PC is more expensive than a console, and then call it unfair. We made a choice, so did console players. You have your couch, we have our addons.
I wouldn't play ESO even 10 minutes without addons.

KyraCROgnon

My 2 cents : the pbm here is that ZOS disabled an existing feature frm the PC game with no warning, no discussion, and they did it because they can't run their servers properly !
And THAT is unacceptable, because letting them get away with it will encourage them to postpone needed hw upgrade even more, and lead to more restrictions on gameplay (in the last few months, we've had added logging queue, LFG degraded even more, cyrodil access restrictions, endless loading screens ... and none of it solved the lag /unstability/random post maintenance weekly disaster from happening.

So I want ZOS to get their bugs and pbm sorted and deliver a stable, fully functionnal service , or they can refund part of our ESO+ for reduced access and fall on their sword !

Rewamping the AH system may or may not be in their futur plans, but it should not be done to hide a malfunction of their game service ! (or what will they feed us next time as lame excuse ? To reduce lag in cyrodil linked to too fast screen refresh we will prevent sprinting and riding in there ? )

Derra

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Why, though? [snip]

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comment]

It´s pretty obvious - it removes a function that allows veteran players to gain an edge on inexperienced newcomers.
That´s happening all over the game for a while now.

Veteran players make the game less fun for newbies.
Veteran players also potentially spend less cash on the game as they already have most things they desire.

zaria

Gilvoth wrote: »

i dont agree with your saying "we"
myself and many others of the eso communtiy "hate" the addons and hate they are even allowed in eso.
in single player games addons are awesome and really fun and joy, but not in an MMO they are completely an open door for cheating and its been proven that with miats addon, and many others, that the ability to cheat does exist and is even still being used in eso.

heres some proof
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387011/miats-zeni-can-i-have-new-skills-please/p1

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397179/why-wont-miats-addon-die

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1

the list is never ending ...

add-ons need to be disabled Permanently and removed from eso!

Its one addon and one functionality in PvP around a year ago. Seeing that we have constant around 10 pvp complains on front page its not surprisingly that people complained about an addon even if that function should be blocked.

Recommend you play on PS4 or One.

zaria

Tandor wrote: »

I suggested in one of the auction house discussions a while back that it would be interesting to suspend trading addons for a while and see what effect that had on those predominantly PC players who defend the present trading system. Interestingly, we may be about to find out...

yes searching on 10 million items as default will improve performance.

DeadlyHammer

All the people on here that are acting like losing this function is no big deal, and think people are just complaining over not having MM function have obviously never run a guild or helped run a guild in this game. The guild member and bank histories are about so much more than anything to do with pricing or sales in our stores. In fact, I could easily live without that part. Its about the ability to track invaluable and necessary information that guild leaders need to account for guild donations and raffle sales for their traders. Most if not all guilds with traders have some kind of fundraisers and dues for their guildies to pay for the trader the guild obtains. The guilds would not have enough gold to pay for the traders if the majority of their guildies were "roster sitters" who did not contribute. Guild member and bank history allows guilds to see who deposits gold to the guild when and how much to monitor their level of contributions. Many have weekly sales amounts as part of their allowed requirements to stay in guild and the only way to reasonably track that is with an addon like MM.
All we are asking for is the basic functions we need to keep our guilds afloat by being able to continue taking donations and sell raffle tickets and track them.With the guild trader system the way it is that guilds must be able to earn the gold required for their trader bids; then it is unreasonable to eliminate the very thing that allows us to do so in the first place.

Urigall

Am I right in thinking a guild can deploy some of its stored capital - as opposed to revenue - to make guild spot bids? I think the answer is yes, but does anyone know for sure?

Is there a cap on how much capital that any guild can accumulate, or is it infinite?

Side comment - my first guild was a social guild. It has an in house trader facility, but its main focus is social interaction. Social interaction does not need to be through a trade guild. In fact, dedicated, social guilds probably do the social thing much better because that is their main function.

StabbityDoom

Urigall wrote: »

Am I right in thinking a guild can deploy some of its stored capital - as opposed to revenue - to make guild spot bids? I think the answer is yes, but does anyone know for sure?.

I mean, if it has any, it has to. But the guild bids are so astronomical that that isn't often the case.

Darkenarlol

so we have two opinions here

first group is like - i never use addons i'm not in trading guild,

have no idea about economics, hate trading so i'm ok with

the incoming changes - just screw you all gold whales,

gonna really enjou your suffering


the second group is actual traders/trade guilds GMs and officers...

and they are reasonably horrified with zos' news on addons

because "there is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution"


gj zeni, gj

/popcorn