We feared you'd leave addons unable to read guild history. Don't make it permanent please.

StabbityDoom

You guys just keep confirming my fears.

"ZOS_GinaBrunoZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
To update you on this issue, we're working on the in-game guild history and the guild history data utilized by addons. The current plan is to re-enable the in-game portion, but leave the addon functionality that use the guild history turned off for now. This is still a temporary solution until we are able to implement a better, more permanent fix. This change is planned for Monday's PC incremental patch."

The way this reads, I am worried this will not just be a temporary fix. I know you say "better, more permanent fix" but this seemed like the obvious outcome of turning off the guild history. Don't just let this be the solution you guys sit on for weeks. If you do, many of your sellers will just give up and go.

I'm asking you, and I'm sure many other traders are asking you, please don't keep this situation as is after Monday for any serious amount of time.

Ackwalan

I have a feeling, this is the new normal.

srfrogg23

Why, though? [snip]

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comment]

Hm... "non-constructive"?

"Baiting"?

You forgot to mention that it's the only relevant question.

If guild traders are so great, then why is everyone losing their minds over not being able to use addons just to be able to enjoy it?

If we need a bunch of addons just to make it bearable, then Zos, you should be asking yourselves why. Not censoring my posts.

StabbityDoom

Ackwalan wrote: »

I have a feeling, this is the new normal.

So do I and that's why I posted this.

jircris11

Ppl cant use mm anymore so they freak out. Now the deposit and withdraw history should be a normal inclusion. But if ppl don't want to take time to price check on their own before selling stuff that's on them. Never used mm and never will.

Pevey

This is not just about traders having access to MM. it is not about item pricing.

It is about the MANUAL bookkeeping GMs will now have to do because NO Shissu’s Guild Tools, NO ATT, NO Master Merchant. Who has time for that? And even if they do have the time for that, who wants to spend time on that? Being a GM of a trade guild was already a full-time job.

Now I have to re-evaluate the time cost vs the benefit of the good feeling that does come from creating specific kind of community and providing a place for them to trade. There are intangible rewards of being a GM, but they are not unlimited.

The other option is to go the route consoles are already forced to go, which is mandatory weekly dues. I don’t want to be a tax assessor, didn’t sign up for that.

Very disappointed to be backed into a corner of even thinking about whether it is worth it to continue after all the work it took to get the guild to this point.

P.S. A small part of me can’t help but be a bit suspicious that this is all a contrived excuse to remove these addons on PC, just because whatever ZOS reasons, with nothing to do with performance.

srfrogg23

I'm curious to see what the "do we need a global auction house" poll numbers will look like after a few months without all those addons...

Spage

Was that an attempt at throwing us a bone? Turning on Guild History without the ability to pull it in any meaningful way is nearly completely useless.

There is no consolidation options using the in-game displays. I could calculate my sales by painstakingly going through each sales history line, for each guild - but it would be an (even more) insane exercise to do it for 500 people.

Gold deposits are easier to read, and manually transcribing every line is more possible, but still an asinine thing to ask us to do for the foreseeable future.

I'm flabbergasted. I have no idea what we're supposed to do now. In my assessment, which may be a minority, chat lag (or no chat at all!), while having addon functionality is actually a better outcome.


And I didn't even touch how this affects traders beyond guild leadership - which would include so much more ranting.

ManwithBeard9

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm curious to see what the "do we need a global auction house" poll numbers will look like after a few months without all those addons...

Why do you assume this only effects trade guilds and how people buy/sell stuff?

Gilvoth

i dont agree with your saying "we"
myself and many others of the eso communtiy "hate" the addons and hate they are even allowed in eso.
in single player games addons are awesome and really fun and joy, but not in an MMO they are completely an open door for cheating and its been proven that with miats addon, and many others, that the ability to cheat does exist and is even still being used in eso.

heres some proof
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387011/miats-zeni-can-i-have-new-skills-please/p1

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397179/why-wont-miats-addon-die

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1

the list is never ending ...

add-ons need to be disabled Permanently and removed from eso!

Ankael07

When FPS was horrible they removed the animations of certain AOE skills. Instead of fixing the performance theyre chipping away parts of the game. Next thing you know the game will become like a Minecraft addon

Neyane

Seriously? Oh for the love of..... Please don't make this a thing ZOS. It isn't necessary.

Goregrinder

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Wulfespirit

When player numbers start falling (and you can bet zos's recent performance in many regards will lead to that outcome)................

.... they'll find some scapegoat to blame instead of looking in the mirror.

Providing functionality and gameplay that players use/need/enjoy then pulling the carpet out from under their feet because of utterly unprofessional lack of foresight and attention to scalability. Problems that could've been addressed at any number of points in the past.

Then we get.. well .. we're just going to cap the queue... just going to disable the functionality.... until something miraculous happens somewhere...sometime...

Shameful.. just shameful.

Tandor

I suggested in one of the auction house discussions a while back that it would be interesting to suspend trading addons for a while and see what effect that had on those predominantly PC players who defend the present trading system. Interestingly, we may be about to find out...

Spage

Gilvoth wrote: »

i dont agree with your saying "we"
myself and many others of the eso communtiy "hate" the addons and hate they are even allowed in eso.
in single player games addons are awesome and really fun and joy, but not in an MMO they are completely an open door for cheating and its been proven that with miats addon, and many others, that the ability to cheat does exist and is even still being used in eso.

heres some proof
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360442/miat-addon

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387011/miats-zeni-can-i-have-new-skills-please/p1

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397179/why-wont-miats-addon-die

and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308971/miats-pvp-alerts-addon/p1

the list is never ending ...

add-ons need to be disabled Permanently and removed from eso!

Your "never ending" list is about a single addon (that I've never heard of).

The addons we're referring to simply read and display Guild Histories in usable ways. This post is about Guild History access - not whatever you're on about.

"add-ons need to be disabled Permanently and removed from eso!" Really? I wouldn't have played longer than a month without a mini map addon.

If you have beef with one particular addon, that's completely fine, but it's not helpful to this discussion.

VaranisArano

Tandor wrote: »

I suggested in one of the auction house discussions a while back that it would be interesting to suspend trading addons for a while and see what effect that had on those predominantly PC players who defend the present trading system. Interestingly, we may be about to find out...

I havent been using MM for about 6 months. Bought a ton of motifs over the anniversary event without it. Never used TTC.

It doesnt make as big of a difference as I expected. I learned to buy and sell before I started using MM, so the same skills still apply. Removing the addons makes buying and selling more time-consuming, but not necessarily harder. (And there's a whole 'nother argument to be had about why ZOS likes things to be time-consuming.)

The biggest time sink is simply that you have to do your own price checking if you want to buy or sell for an "average" price. For consumables, materials, and motifs, that's usually pretty easy to figure out and got much easier thanks to the new item search! It makes it harder with gear and rarer items, as its harder to figure out what people are willing to pay for "impen Spriggans chest" or whatever.

I tend to sell mats, motifs, and very limited gear sets. So MM prices on those were pretty stable or pretty easy to figure out.


The problem with "removing easy add-ons = more people want Auction House" is that doesnt capture the whole argument. That's only true for some people.

If someone wants more convenience and uses addons to create something close to the convenience of an Auction House, then sure, they'd probably want an AH.

However, for anyone who doesnt want an Auction House because of the effect it will have on the economy, removing addons like MM and TTC is ideal, because TTC in particular distorts the market in a similar if lesser way as an AH.

Personally, having not used MM after using it for a long time, I don't think the addons are necessary. They make trading quicker and easier, sometimes too quick and easy.

But ultimately, that's only one small part of the AH argument. Given the problems with Guild History right now, I have zero faith that ZOS can create a working AH that holds up under player demand.

Pevey

Once again, this is not really about individual traders. Minor inconvenience. But for GMs and officers (because it takes several), it is a MAJOR inconvenience to say the least

Edit: I don’t mean to be dismissive, probably shouldn’t have said minor inconvenience. It depends on playstyle.

wolfie1.0.

Tandor wrote: »

I suggested in one of the auction house discussions a while back that it would be interesting to suspend trading addons for a while and see what effect that had on those predominantly PC players who defend the present trading system. Interestingly, we may be about to find out...

It just means that we go back to having to shop around for good deals. I will be able to charge more in rawl for my stuff because people wont want to price check.

wavingblue

My guess is with the push they have made for new players all the spaghetti code has been pushed over the edge, weaknesses are getting magnified exponentially and ZOS is probably not far away from complete system collapse.

That being said... crippling trade guilds and their players for weeks is not going to keep the players who spend a couple of hundred dollars per year around. Quite the opposite in fact as we are paying customers.

idk

Ackwalan wrote: »

I have a feeling, this is the new normal.

If they cannot easily fix it without undoing whatever they changed on purpose it probably will be. Look at the in-combat bug that significantly worsened last year. I have only seen one acknowledgement of the issue and it is not tied to Dev Tracker last time I looked. So, yea, they do not seem to have a clue how to fix it so they keep quiet about it.

arena25

*Grabs popcorn*

As much as I also am not a fan of the fact addons are having issues at the moment...

Seeing this and the other threads spewing toxicity and general nerdrage about broken trade guild addons is an example as to why Blizzard needs to hurry up and release Patch 8.2 and WoW Classic...cos these forums are slowly becoming the WoW forums in terms of toxicity, and that's not why I came to ESO in the first place (and the toxicity in the WoW forums is a big reason why I am unsubbed for the moment).

MLGProPlayer

What in the actual ***?

This is the dumbest decision they've made to date. This is going to completely kill the trade scene.

thermatico

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

What in the actual ***?

This is the dumbest decision they've made to date. This is going to completely kill the trade scene.

qft

Jhalin

This company does not care about its players, that much is obvious

They don’t care about the people here for the lore, they throw it out the window for fanservice

They don’t care about the hardcore players, abilities don’t work and mechanics get bugged and “You May Not — While In Combat” and “Someone Declined”

They don’t care about the trade scene, removing key addons that made GMing and participating a trade guild reasonable


Literally all ZOS wants playing their game are whales. They want a handful of people who don’t care about a functioning game so long as they can gamble for some shiny new reskin. Or throw hundreds on a house while being happy with nothing but mindless overland filler rather than ever seeking out dungeons, trials, or PvP, or any other people at all for that matter.

NorthernNightmare

its a bug feature

MartiniDaniels

I'll probably stick with fishing and acquiring master angler, all other activities have high risk of negative emotions due to unpredictable bugs, lags, feature removals, whatever.

XenoAlbedo

I swear this better not be a permanent change. I JUST got into trading.

corpseblade

Jhalin wrote: »

This company does not care about its players, that much is obvious

They don’t care about the people here for the lore, they throw it out the window for fanservice

They don’t care about the hardcore players, abilities don’t work and mechanics get bugged and “You May Not — While In Combat” and “Someone Declined”

They don’t care about the trade scene, removing key addons that made GMing and participating a trade guild reasonable


Literally all ZOS wants playing their game are whales. They want a handful of people who don’t care about a functioning game so long as they can gamble for some shiny new reskin. Or throw hundreds on a house while being happy with nothing but mindless overland filler rather than ever seeking out dungeons, trials, or PvP, or any other people at all for that matter.

I don't consider overland "mindless filler", I consider it the game. I don't do endgame or pvp and don't consider everything else to be an obstacle to that end. Lore is important to me and I have concerns with this latest expansion (and the loss of the lore overseer). But I am willing to let it play out for awhile.

As for the trading guilds problem, I don't use addons and never will. BUT I don't think it is ever a good idea to remove something people have come to depend on. It breeds resentment.

When the game started I abhorred the individual trading guild sites as a annoyance. Now I find it kind of charming to visit different guild traders to find what I am looking for. But I don't sell and I am not a massive buyer. Trading guilds should have their concerns dealt with as this part of the game is very important to them.

Tigerseye

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm curious to see what the "do we need a global auction house" poll numbers will look like after a few months without all those addons...

Yeah, suddenly an auction house will seem like a great option.

While new players don't have addons (so, overpay), but resellers do, the latter like/don't mind guild stores.

But, when no one has them, that will presumably be a different matter.

Reverb

Let’s take the pricing and sales component completely out of this discussion, and focus on the most painful impact.

The problem is the loss of guild history in the API. Many guilds run raffles for fundraisers. Without that history there’s no way to report deposits and give an accurate accounting of what members have given.

Some trade guilds have mandatory dues, and others will be driven to start requiring them without raffles, but without the history there’s no way to track the deposit for them.

This history gives transparency. Without history the tracking of member participation is shrouded in secrecy, which is why console players generally feel the trade GMs are corrupt. Trackable and exportable history keeps everything above board. That’s the part we need restored. We can all learn to live without the pricing and sales history if we have to.