We feared you'd leave addons unable to read guild history. Don't make it permanent please.

Jhalin

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

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Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

I think the experience will be much better without all of these 3rd party addons manipulating the market. Now people will use the system the way it was intended. They'll have to.

Now, if a single guild wants to dominate a specific trader for months at a time, they will actually have to run their trading guild like a real business, which is going to be so, so fun...

Honestly, I hope Zos leaves it this way. Then they'll finally get some real feedback on this crap system instead of constantly being defended by people who only enjoy it because they supplement their experience with 3rd party software. Heck, the console crowd seems to be doing just fine.

Go forth and trade! Anarchy is here

Sorry this doesn't stack up. It was always intended that addons would fill the voids in UI functionality, partially because of the console .

Statements like this do not negate the fact that addons do exist and provide much needed functionality that players have come to depend on.

Also you have not grasped that guild history has been disabled, a feature that is integral to the core game. Addons do not manipulate the game or the market they interrogate information that is available and deliver it to players in a usable way.

It is already a pretty one-sided and toxic relationship that Zos has with its trade guild GMs. We undertake huge amounts of admin, stress and yes fun as well running the trade system for Zos, without much support or direct communication. For example Zos has failed to grasp, the direct impact of crown selling (basically legal gold buying) on the trading system and how an excess of gold from those willing to spend real money has had on the bidding system.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker how about a dedicated, named developer responsible for the trade system, a forum thread and a constructive dialogue between trade GMs and Zos initiated please?

It does add up. Addons can be good for cosmetic customization. If you want to rearrange the UI, change its appearance then, yeah, that's why they have addon functionality.

I don't think the devs intended for people to use the addons to circumvent gameplay. Make no mistake, manually researching and tracking market prices amongst a large number of competing vendors is the intended "gameplay". It's a medieval market simulator, not a modern corporate tycoon simulator.

I know for sure that they NEVER intended for addons to be used to give players such a significant advantage over the players who aren't using addons.

how can you know that for sure? zos is in control about which api functions can be used and most likely they know what you are able to do with it. additionally they disabled those functions if players archived something they didn't thought about. so i would say it was pretty much intended.

Do you honestly think they would create a system specifically to be circumvented by addons? To be considered almost mandatory just to enjoy the content? Do you honestly think they intended for players to have such a massive advantage over other players just because they use some addons?

No. I don't think that was the intent at all. I think, it's more of a case of either addons are allowed or they're not, and up until this point, they tolerated the addons that bordered on cheating because they didn't want to prevent the use of cosmetic addons.

You should be thankful for this development. It means you will enjoy the game the way it was intended. If you don't like it that way, then you can join the rest of us when we say the guild trader system sucks (this is the reason why it sucks, btw).

There is no “advantage over other players” when you try to paint console players as the “other players”. You chose a system you knew would not have addons, you also don’t directly compete with anyone on PC. No competition = no advantage.

People on PC chose the platform with addons. And yes, ZOS did design this game with addons in mind. That why the API has functioned like it has for 5 or so years with only moderate changes. There’s even a quote a small way back about how the devs left out some features because they knew and addon could fulfill the same function if players so desired.

Nothing has been circumvented. API issues have gotten patched rather quickly once they come to public attention. There’s no blanket addon-ban, that would definitely cause a great deal of people to quit. MM, Shissu’s Guild Tools, ATT have existed for years as publicly known and encouraged tools for traders and trade guild GMs. Most of those tools should 100% be built into the base game.

The console trade scene is toxic only because you don’t have reasonable tools available, or the dedication I guess. Since you could just track every single sale every player makes right? (/s)

I think you're doing way too many mental gymnastics to try to downplay the affect that these addons have on the system. Just to put it into perspective: Read all of the posts complaining about all of the horrible, time consuming things that guld masters will have to do just to remain competitive and hold on to their traders from week to week.

And yes, guilds are competing against each other to hold those spots. If you lose your trader, then you're limited to in-guild sales. That means profits are extremely limited.

That's where the significant advantage of addons comes into play.

Mental gymnastics to say the console market developed differently than PC? Nah I don’t think so.

PC trading has functioned healthy because PC guilds can base requirements off sales rather easily. It’s more player-friendly and generates a nice reward system for those who participate when a weekly fee is waived in light of good sales numbers.

Console, in general, doesn’t use sales as a metric at all because gathering the info is tedious. That environment is much less welcoming and doesn’t distinguish between high participation sellers and those just hanging out in the guild for a week. They all have the same donation reqs even if one person sells 100k and another sold 50k. Even with addons I’d venture to say PC trade GMs work as hard or harder than console trade guild GMs do due to the completely different requirement system we’ve all come to know here.

The reward systems like sales tax returns, high-seller bonuses are not feasible on console because you lack a proper data gathering tool. On PC those reward systems are common.

Maybe you’re selectively reading, but people on PC would agree that bringing over many addon function, especially for guilds, would be welcome on consoles. You’re not competing against addons in your system, which is the point. PC players all have equal access to addons, further making that point moot. The trade system at its base is social and unique on top of all the good it does keeping gold inflation down. That doesn’t mean it’s not in dire need of an update.

I'm not selectively reading. I understand exactly what you're saying. "Addons make guild traders worthwhile".

You're not understanding me. I'm saying, "guild traders suck because they're only worth a damn if you use a bunch of addons. People who don't use addons are at a disadvantage because of that. The guild trader system needs to go away. If it's not going to go away, then everyone needs to be on an equal playing field. That means getting rid of the addons, permanently."

You see, I don't care if you think you're somehow facilitating a good gameplay experience for non-addon-using players because you use addons yourself. I want you to experience the guild trader system in its purest form and then come back and tell me how fun it is.

Game devs need real feedback on this system. People like to brush aside the criticism of it by saying "just download all these addons so it doesn't suck". Sorry, no. That's bad design. We should not need to download 3rd party software just to make a mechanic bearable.

So, no more addons, I say. Play it the way I do. See how you enjoy it after that.

“I’m not selectively reading” you say, and yet

Maybe you’re selectively reading, but people on PC would agree that bringing over many addon function, especially for guilds, would be welcome on consoles. You’re not competing against addons in your system, which is the point. PC players all have equal access to addons, further making that point moot. The trade system at its base is social and unique on top of all the good it does keeping gold inflation down. That doesn’t mean it’s not in dire need of an update.

So please keep wailing about how I don’t want base game improvements

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

With this thread continuing to derail from all sides after our intervention, we've felt it necessary to close this thread. When posting be sure to stay constructive and respectful regardless of where you stand on the matter. Best to avoid problematic posts to avoid flame spreading through the topic, keep in mind that both bait and flame are against the Forum Rules.

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