Solo dungeon mode, please

Tornaad

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Please READ the post before posting commets, not just title

And again. PLEASE READ before commenting. PLEASE.

Dear ZOS,
A lot of lore already hidden in 4-player dungeons. It is even worse for the Wrathstone dungeons, as they are a part of the story. Please make a solo dungeon mode for players, who are not able to do dungeons in a group.
Let this solo dungeon mode be purely story oriented: no sets, no motifs, no achivements, no skillpoints - nothing that could make this mode a kind of a cheating one. Nothing to grind. It should not be a part of Undaunted pledges and whatever else - juts a story to do.

To all who want to post some answer like "find friends", "find a guild", "learn to play", please read this: I play since 2016. I tried hard to find people like me to do dungeond for a story. And here are the results:
1. We are 4 and we all want to do a dungeon for a story. I'm a tank. Other players are: a healer who sees a restoration staff for the first time and 2 DDs running around a dungeon like mad chickens. These people never did dungeond before, and will never practice - they are focused on quests only. They don't want to spend their time learning how to play in a group.
2. I found 3 people who agree to change their playstile. We live in different countries - thus it is hard to set a time for dungeon runs or practice. More - even if we all 4 are online, these players are busy doing something. As, you know, there are a lot things to do. And the most bad thing: I can be forced to log off at any moment because of my job.
3. Many players who want to do dungeon stories refuse to change anything. As a master crafter, I offer them free sets, food, glyphs. I try to explain their skills gently. I try to explain dungeon mechanics. But solo players are SOLO players. They don't want someone to be a leader. They don't want to learn a crazy rotation piano, they don't listen to a team mechanics. "I'll go see what's there!" - types my teammate in chat. I start typing "No" in respond, but the teammate is already dead, and mobs are running at us.
4. Guildmates do agree to do a dungeon with me. Sometimes they even give some time for me to make screenshots of dialogues. Sometimes. But the rest of the time they just rush through a dungeon. I don't want to rush! Dungeons are beautiful, I want to enjoy them! I don't want to make dialogue screenshots, I want to LISTEN to them!
5. I tried to do dungeons solo with a petsorc. My results: Fungal Grotto 1 and another "beginners" dungeon with a spider boss. I know - some players can do a lot of dungeons solo. Not me, unfortunately.

I assure you - I've made every effort to find players like me. A lot of people want to do dungeon stories, and it is impossible to become a team. Please @ZOS, give us a possibility to enjoy dungeons!
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I'll second that.

Chirru

BretonMage wrote: »

Chirru wrote: »

What I do speak against is this...

Players who do like to play PvP and do like Grouping in dungeons do have access to all of the Game.

Players who prefer to play PvE Solo do not!

PvE Solo players miss out on a huge chunk of the Game's features.

In other words...players with a Herd mentality get it all and Individualism is punished by the Developers (in my opinion). I call this Social Engineering.

Ah, I see. Yes, I agree with you that individualism seems to be discouraged overall in this game, both by the devs and the player base. Coming from the single-player TES, where one plays however one wants, I dislike that herd mentality aspect in ESO enormously.

(I still think they do it for profits though )

Yes, I agree with the profit comment.

As a fact: PvE Solo players pay the same playing the game as everyone else and yet get only a partial game experience. Yes I know...we choose doing this. Still...I do not think it fair. PvE Solo Players should get a discount. Okay...okay...lol... wishful thinking.

Still...me thinks that Dungeons vital to Lore content ought to be Solo Dungeons. They were in previous DLC's

Good luck to us all

AlnilamE

Chirru wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I'd happily pay for a solo dungeon mode. But I think they should do normal mode AND vet mode, for people who like vet level but without being forced to group. With appropriate rewards.

Stebarnz wrote: »

As I said there could be easier and better solutions. I was just thinking there could be a mentour system, where players that know the mechanics of dungeons would queue up with players doing it for the first time. Mentours helping new or casual players in dungeons would be rewarded, this could be done in many ways like an achievement or even, something more fun, at the end of the dungeon if a new player completed the quest a chest would spawn with some rewards for the entire group. Now the quality of the rewards I have no idea what should be eheh nothing too powerfull but still worth getting, maybe cosmetics or something cool

Interesting idea, don't know if there are many charitable souls who will volunteer (there IS a guild who's dedicated to helping players experience dungeon stories, kudos to them).... Though I think that if ZOS is forcing us to group up, then THEY should provide a mentor.

Chirru wrote: »

I hate Slavery...so I will not be forced into grouping. The Developers crude and infantile attempt of social engineering will not work with me.

I hate grouping up too, though I think it's more about money, not social engineering. They probably decided that players stay around for longer if they play with friends, so they're trying to force us to find friends so we'll continue to feed their profits. And it probably works too, because in threads asking forumites what keeps us in the game, about 70% of the time, people respond, "friends".

Please do not understand me wrong!

I have nothing against PvP play!

I have nothing against Group Dungeons play!


What I do speak against is this...

Players who do like to play PvP and do like Grouping in dungeons do have access to all of the Game.

Players who prefer to play PvE Solo do not!

PvE Solo players miss out on a huge chunk of the Game's features.

In other words...players with a Herd mentality get it all and Individualism is punished by the Developers (in my opinion). I call this Social Engineering.

Concerning playing with Friends....ah... really? Is anyone really telling me that playing in a Group shuffled together by a random dungeon finder App constitutes 'playing with friends'? The very thought has me roflol.

Good luck to us all

Well, consider that if you go to an all-you-can-eat buffet, you pay the same price as everyone else, but:

- People who are omnivores have access to the entire buffet
- People who are vegetarian don't have access to dishes containing meat
- People who are celiac don't have access to dishes containing gluten
- People who have food allergies don't have access to dishes containing their specific allergens

Does that mean that only omnivores can enjoy buffets?

Dragonnord

I agree 100%. I also opened a thread with this same request a few months ago.
 

AlnilamE

Chirru wrote: »

Still...me thinks that Dungeons vital to Lore content ought to be Solo Dungeons. They were in previous DLC's

Good luck to us all

How is the lore content more vital than the content of Banished Cells, though? That has direct ties to some of the other quests in Auridon.

Chirru

Clanbrassil wrote: »

I really like the idea of mercenaries. I was thinking about how much work would be involved in developing a story mode, and whether each dungeon would need to be reworked. But what a simple solution to allow a player who can't conveniently find a group of humans to avail themselves of three NPCs. Then the dungeon is still played as a group and needs little if any modification. And since NPCs who fight on the player's side already exist, that's easy too. The NPCs won't mind if a player stops to take in dialogue or admire the scenery, or has to answer the phone.

And the rewards don't need changing, either.

Yep...a possible simple solution.

However...the Developers are way to intelligent to think of this or to do the work involved in such a solution.

Really...me thinks (on the Developer side) there is an attitude of: We know what is right for you. You little Player have no idea what you really want. So we dictate to you what we know you want...even if you (as yet) do not understand why you need to want it.

Okay...I hope the above makes sense. If not; Do not worry...eventually you will get it...or not.

Good luck to us all

lassitershawn

Normally would disagree with anything asking for a content nerf but tbh if there are no rewards and people just want to enjoy the story why not?

AlnilamE

lassitershawn wrote: »

Normally would disagree with anything asking for a content nerf but tbh if there are no rewards and people just want to enjoy the story why not?

Yeah, pretty much.

myskyrim26

A video of dungeons already appeared... Yet it is like - you want a girlfriend? You don't need one, just look through some pictures of romatic couples. You want this icecream? You don't need one, just watch this video: a guy is eating the icecream you want! Wait.. why are you frustrated?! It is FINE to watch other people doing things you want!

El_Borracho

And around we go. I must live a charmed life as most vet dungeon runs I do are through group finder and nearly all go well. I can't think of any non-group content outside of PVP that a person needs monster sets or dungeon gear to do. And calling PVP non-group content is a stretch.

Linaleah

as i have mentioned before. BECAUSE skillpoints are currently tied to the dungeon quests, and BECAUSE of how rough those quest can be to finish sometimes, becasue other group members just... don't... listen and rush right along.

either story mode should give a skill point on completion of the quest, OR.. and you are going to like this one. skill point is detached from the quest, and instead - attached to the first clear of the place on normal or higher difficulty, you know those vanquisher achievements? that way we can keep any meaningful loot out of story mode (again as i have suggested - the loot you'd be getting would be world drops from whatever zone the dungeon is located - in green) and keep your darn incentive to do dungeons WITH a group, while also allowing story players to actualy YOU KNOW, enjoy the story at our own pace.

god forbid solo players get anything good, fine. FINE. just let. us. see.. the story. and fix this ridiculous skill point issue, because it IS an issue. because some of those dungeons don't let you turn in the quest for the story untill 2-3 minutes worth of dialogue is done and guess what? 30 seconds after boss died, you are kicked from the dungeon, becasue everyone else left. yes yes, some people wait. I certainly try to. but not everyone waits. not every reads chat, or cares for someone else's quest completion, EVEN if they skip all the intermediate dialogue.

so there are 2 issues here. inability to complete the quest, due to how players actualy play their way through the dungeons.
and inability to enjoy that quest's story.

attaching the skill point to first clear rather then quest turn in and creating a separate solo mode where all you get to do is finish the quest? solves both. win win.

Linaleah

AlnilamE wrote: »

Chirru wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I'd happily pay for a solo dungeon mode. But I think they should do normal mode AND vet mode, for people who like vet level but without being forced to group. With appropriate rewards.

Stebarnz wrote: »

As I said there could be easier and better solutions. I was just thinking there could be a mentour system, where players that know the mechanics of dungeons would queue up with players doing it for the first time. Mentours helping new or casual players in dungeons would be rewarded, this could be done in many ways like an achievement or even, something more fun, at the end of the dungeon if a new player completed the quest a chest would spawn with some rewards for the entire group. Now the quality of the rewards I have no idea what should be eheh nothing too powerfull but still worth getting, maybe cosmetics or something cool

Interesting idea, don't know if there are many charitable souls who will volunteer (there IS a guild who's dedicated to helping players experience dungeon stories, kudos to them).... Though I think that if ZOS is forcing us to group up, then THEY should provide a mentor.

Chirru wrote: »

I hate Slavery...so I will not be forced into grouping. The Developers crude and infantile attempt of social engineering will not work with me.

I hate grouping up too, though I think it's more about money, not social engineering. They probably decided that players stay around for longer if they play with friends, so they're trying to force us to find friends so we'll continue to feed their profits. And it probably works too, because in threads asking forumites what keeps us in the game, about 70% of the time, people respond, "friends".

Please do not understand me wrong!

I have nothing against PvP play!

I have nothing against Group Dungeons play!


What I do speak against is this...

Players who do like to play PvP and do like Grouping in dungeons do have access to all of the Game.

Players who prefer to play PvE Solo do not!

PvE Solo players miss out on a huge chunk of the Game's features.

In other words...players with a Herd mentality get it all and Individualism is punished by the Developers (in my opinion). I call this Social Engineering.

Concerning playing with Friends....ah... really? Is anyone really telling me that playing in a Group shuffled together by a random dungeon finder App constitutes 'playing with friends'? The very thought has me roflol.

Good luck to us all

Well, consider that if you go to an all-you-can-eat buffet, you pay the same price as everyone else, but:

- People who are omnivores have access to the entire buffet
- People who are vegetarian don't have access to dishes containing meat
- People who are celiac don't have access to dishes containing gluten
- People who have food allergies don't have access to dishes containing their specific allergens

Does that mean that only omnivores can enjoy buffets?

except, to take your analogy - everyone generally get get something from that all you can eat. you may not get everything, but you can get some salad, or whatever your eating requirements allow you to have.

with dungeon DLC's its like paying an entry fee to a buffet and having NO food available to you. at all. but still being charged an entry fee - ESO plus, part of selling point is that it covers DLC content and guess what - out of 3 dlc's we get included in it, TWO have no solo content in them. at all. story DLC's usually come with some solo content AND some group content, so everyone gets to partake. DLC dungeons? not so much.

creating solo mode for dungeons, still keeps all that those dungeons have to offer - to omnivores that do it on higher difficulty modes and get their achievements and skins etc. but at the same time, at least it throws a bone, so to speak.. a small one, just couple of dishes out of entire smorgasbord to solo players. and everyone wins. and people who don't subscribe and instead buy DLC's separately? will actualy have a good incentive to BUY TWO more content packs that they aren't currently buying.

El_Borracho

@Linaleah Not trying to pick a fight, but the overwhelming majority of content in this game is solo-able. A good number of normal group dungeons are solo-able. Every single non-DLC zone has a public dungeon. Summerset had 2 and zero group dungeons. So stop with the "solo players can't have nice things" and "only group content matters" stuff.

If you are doing the group dungeon for the quest/skill point, tell the group up front. Most of the time, the group will wait for you to fulfill the objectives. Yes, its inconvenient when the group wants to farm or do a speed run because they have done it before. Its happened to anyone who PUGs group dungeons. Funny thing, you end up doing these things over and over because of the Undaunted Pledges. So there is always another chance.

And yes, we know it blows to do some of these DLC dungeons in group finder. But is that really a valid reason to scrap the entire system and give players a solo alternative? We all have to deal with inconveniences in this game. Did I like getting abused in Cyrodiil while I leveled up for Caltrops and Vigor? Nope. The same goes for PVPers who need to get gear in dungeons, trials, etc. Heck, while we're at it, lets add in a group option for VMA for players who can't do the content on their own, are here for the group content, and think ZOS only caters to solo players....

LuxLunae

If you are asking for solo dungeons like malestorm arena go ahead

If you are asking for all dungeons in the game to be optionally solo:

I will have to deny this request..With 20 years of MMO experience, I can definitely tell you that option is a game killer....

Linaleah

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Linaleah Not trying to pick a fight, but the overwhelming majority of content in this game is solo-able. A good number of normal group dungeons are solo-able. Every single non-DLC zone has a public dungeon. Summerset had 2 and zero group dungeons. So stop with the "solo players can't have nice things" and "only group content matters" stuff.

If you are doing the group dungeon for the quest/skill point, tell the group up front. Most of the time, the group will wait for you to fulfill the objectives. Yes, its inconvenient when the group wants to farm or do a speed run because they have done it before. Its happened to anyone who PUGs group dungeons. Funny thing, you end up doing these things over and over because of the Undaunted Pledges. So there is always another chance.

And yes, we know it blows to do some of these DLC dungeons in group finder. But is that really a valid reason to scrap the entire system and give players a solo alternative? We all have to deal with inconveniences in this game. Did I like getting abused in Cyrodiil while I leveled up for Caltrops and Vigor? Nope. The same goes for PVPers who need to get gear in dungeons, trials, etc. Heck, while we're at it, lets add in a group option for VMA for players who can't do the content on their own, are here for the group content, and think ZOS only caters to solo players....

no. one. is taking. your. group content.

the main objection to solo mode I see is gear. fine. let there be no meaningful gear, no meaningful loot, so that solo players don't get dungeon stuff.

however.

1. when I speak about not being able to turn int the quest, I. SPEAK. FROM. EXPERIENCE. yes, having said "I'm on a quest" in the beginning of the dungeon. the ONLY time I get to complete quests for sure, is when at least one other person is also on a quest. all other times - its a crap shoot. and NONE of those times, while in a pug? I get to actualy listen to dialogue. I tend to play a healer. which means I feel like its my responsibility to stay with a group and make sure they are alive, make sure they are buffed. guess what happens when I stay back anyway to listen to the quest text, assuming someone else didn't already skip past the dialogue and npc moved on before I was finished. - people run ahead, people start pulling, sometimes people die and I GET BLAMED. so no, actualy taking time to enjoy those quests in a group? aint happening.
2. soloable is subjective. just becasue very good players can solo all things, doesn't mean everyone can. i've seen people die in fungal grotto 1.
3. once again, because you seem to be ignoring that part. there is ZERO SOLO CONTENT IN DLC DUNGEON PACKS. ZE. RO.

NONE. ZILCH. ZIP. and yet its still part of ESO plus. 2 out of 3 content packs that ESO plus is supposed to cover? and there is ZERO content in them for a solo player. how many sales do you think are lost on direct DLC purchases just because those DLC's do nothing for solo players? I'd wager quite a few. yes, there is a ton of solo content. but that doesn't change the fact that 2 out of 3 paid content packs? have NO solo content, and yet we are still expected to pay the same exact money for ESO plus.

ADDING SOLO MODE does NOT scrap the system. its an added mode, NOT "instead of" mode. and yes... lost sales is a darn good reason to add it.

Karminathevamp

Someone already posted a video of both new PTS dungeons Frostvault and Depths of Malatar. Guess what? They just rushed through both dungeons at turbo speed while skipping all dialogue or looking around at the artful environment. This is the reason why I don’t do dungeons anymore. Nobody wants to wait for you while you are listening to the story being told or looking around at the beautiful arts. It’s just rush, rush, rush, bing, bang, done, out. Good old Sheogorath would say: “Where is the entertainment in that? BOOOOOOORING! ”

Mr_Walker

myskyrim26 wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

In case anyone missed it, here is ZOS explanation/justification for the dungeons/story thing:

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

The story is connected to the Season of the Dragon in that, assisting Tharayya in getting both halves of the Wrathstone tablet in Frostvault and Depths of Malatar provides context for how Abnur Tharn has them in the prologue quest. If you do not do the Dungeons, that's fine, some other adventurers helped him... but if you did, its an awesome pay off to see your hard work in the Dungeons with your friends be rewarded with a cool story element, don't you think? It's not something that has happened before and we are excited to finally bring this experience to players who enjoy our group content.

I hardly keep myself from commenting on this "justification"

I won't restrain myslef. Sophistry.

Mr_Walker

lassitershawn wrote: »

Normally would disagree with anything asking for a content nerf but tbh if there are no rewards and people just want to enjoy the story why not?

Because too many people are of the mindset that if they don't want it, no one should have it. Me want, screw you. It is the mentality of psychopaths and small children.

LuxLunae wrote: »

I will have to deny this request..With 20 years of MMO experience, I can definitely tell you that option is a game killer....

And I can definitely tell you gating people out of main-story related content is similarly a game killer.

max_only

Karminathevamp wrote: »

Someone already posted a video of both new PTS dungeons Frostvault and Depths of Malatar. Guess what? They just rushed through both dungeons at turbo speed while skipping all dialogue or looking around at the artful environment. This is the reason why I don’t do dungeons anymore. Nobody wants to wait for you while you are listening to the story being told or looking around at the beautiful arts. It’s just rush, rush, rush, bing, bang, done, out. Good old Sheogorath would say: “Where is the entertainment in that? BOOOOOOORING! ”

SIGH

Sylvermynx

I can't now remember if I commented previously.... WAY too many posts. Still.... I really would love a story mode option especially since coming content is gated behind running two dungeons.

My lag is 2000+ ms. NO ONE is willing to group with someone who deals with that massive lag/limitation. So.... I won't get to see that story content....

Nope. I can't "upgrade" my connection. The only thing I have available here is satellite. Ain't hap'nin....

ruikkarikun

100+ agrees to OP lol. That's solid. Yes we need solo mode to be able to farm monster set we want. Because even if you're tank sometimes it's hard to find people for dungeo you're need.

It is pretty clear as it is. So I don't understand why this still not implemented.

max_only

.

SirAndy

Bookmarked this thread just in case i ever need to quickly find some really, really bad analogies ...

Finviuswe

Sure, and then what will the solo dungeoneers have you to do?

You never thought of them.

Linaleah

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Sure, and then what will the solo dungeoneers have you to do?

You never thought of them.

they can keep... soloing dungeons on normal mode (or veteran if that is their thing - I've seen some people do that its very impressive). like they do right now. why in a world do you think that would go away with solo mode?

Finviuswe

Linaleah wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Sure, and then what will the solo dungeoneers have you to do?

You never thought of them.

they can keep... soloing dungeons on normal mode (or veteran if that is their thing - I've seen some people do that its very impressive). like they do right now. why in a world do you think that would go away with solo mode?

Believe me.

Solo dungeoneers need to be able to solo their dungeon on any difficulty. lol. Whether that be veteran or normal

also

I care for the rights of all solo dungeoneers greatly.

there

Linaleah

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Lathrop3 wrote: »

Sure, and then what will the solo dungeoneers have you to do?

You never thought of them.

they can keep... soloing dungeons on normal mode (or veteran if that is their thing - I've seen some people do that its very impressive). like they do right now. why in a world do you think that would go away with solo mode?

Believe me.

Solo dungeoneers need to be able to solo their dungeon on any difficulty. lol. Whether that be veteran or normal

also

I care for the rights of all solo dungeoneers greatly.

there

and again, please explain to me because i'm not seeing a problem here. how does existence of an extra mode preventing them from doing what they are already doing?

if you so care about "rights of solo dungeoneers" then why do you seem to be against actual solo dungeons that are accessible to more people? heck, your "solo dungeoneers" whose rights who care so deeply about - may actualy benefit from ZoS reevaluation mechanics that require a group and redesigning them to be genuinely soloable without having to glitch your way past them (or just impossible to bypass all together) imagine... just imagine.... buttons that do not have to be pressed in perfect unison but instead can be pressed by a single person because there is now more time allowed between button presses. not getting chained or speared as long as you are the only person in a dungeon, so the mechanic still exists in a group, but doesn't stop soloer in their tracks. just... consider the benefits instead of going "you don't deserve to see this content you paid for unless you "git gud" at the game"

dovakiin5574

A simple fix would be to allow a player to leave the group and stay in the dungeon solo after the final boss is defeated. Then allow that player to go back and talk to NPCs for the story. Seems like the easiest way to me

Chirru

Without apology: The upcoming DLC Dungeons are a total waste of effort and space (in my opinion).

Groups rush through them and do not appreciate the work done.

Most solo players will not be able to do them.

Once all the item set (and whatever) have been harvested and better ones are available no one will care about these dungeons any more.

Ah yes...there is all the wasted time and emotional trauma (joke) waiting for a group invite because the group-finder is ...yea...

Good luck to us all...we desperately need it

karekiz

Chirru wrote: »

Groups rush through them and do not appreciate the work done.
....
Once all the item set (and whatever) have been harvested and better ones are available no one will care about these dungeons any more.

I ran MHK 4 times today and sold 4 motifs. Not bad to me. A groupmate also scored the chest so thats a bare min 110K + 30K + 30K + 30K = 200Kish for running some dungeons.

I never ran MHK for "items". If anything that "Dungeon" event utterly killed the worth of running old content into the group by granting Motifs for clearing Fungal Grotto 1 on Normal. Fang Lair chest I swear dropped 100K. So by your statement can we PLEASE not have another Dungeon motifs for faceroll event? I would rather like to run the older content and actually get worthwhile stuff.