Redguard sustain is ruining overall PvE stamina sustain

Shezzarrine

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I like Redguards, but it sucks that they're the only viable stamina race.

On the magicka side, Altmer and Dunmer are equally viable and Breton isn't far behind.

That's just not true, they may be the best, but are not the only viable race. In fact, the best dps I personally know is khajiit.

Bosmer is viable, imperial is somewhat viable also, just none of them are as good as redguard except khajiit, which can be very close if built right

Girl_Number8

Smh~ nerf threads

TheGreatBlackBear

To get around the sustain problem I play warden. A Khajit with bull netch has been working wonders for me.

Bigevilpeter

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf, I said buff sustain in general so it won't be a problem for other races, currently Redguards are the problem even if they reduce redguard sustain they buff sustain general so they would still be the same.

But one viable race for stamina dd is just stupid

JobooAGS

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf, I said buff sustain in general so it won't be a problem for other races, currently Redguards are the problem even if they reduce redguard sustain they buff sustain general so they would still be the same.

But one viable race for stamina dd is just stupid

Absorb stamina + infused = sustain for days. If you have questions, pm me

Casul

I like my orc personally, yeah sustain may not be anywhere near the level of redguard but at least I run super fast.

Bigevilpeter

JobooAGS wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf, I said buff sustain in general so it won't be a problem for other races, currently Redguards are the problem even if they reduce redguard sustain they buff sustain general so they would still be the same.

But one viable race for stamina dd is just stupid

Absorb stamina + infused = sustain for days. If you have questions, pm me

And less dps

code65536

Or... OR... maybe the problem of racial diversity is the result of the harsh Morrowind nerf hammer that everyone hated?

Emma_Overload

Forum: Sorcs need to be nerfed! Nerf Nerf Nerf!

ZOS: *nerfs Sorcs*

Sorcs: OK, so what about stamina...

Forum: No more nerfs! Stop asking for nerfs!

Haashhtaag

Maybe if ZOS wouldn’t have nerfed sustain khajiits would still be a thing.

Kuramas9tails

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Less nerfing, more adapting

Or more buffing other races?

Haashhtaag

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Less nerfing, more adapting

Or more buffing other races?

Let’s cross breed a redguard and Khajiit, we have the dark magic to do it, and upon completion welll have the perfect pve race the khajuard

John_Falstaff

@Haashhtaag , or a redjit. ^^

Haashhtaag

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Haashhtaag , or a redjit. ^^

Should we upvote it?

RedRook

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Less nerfing, more adapting

I kind of chuckle when I see replies like this.

Touts adapting, L2P etc but Mains a Redguard Stam Blade.

L2P a Redguard I guess?

Adapt to being a Redguard!

Racial bonuses are too important, but stating this fact always gets you shouted down. Apparently half of Cyrodiil infested with lizard people is necessary because lore. shrug Endgame PVE must be Reguard because lore. Khajiit have that pickpocket bonus, so everything's fine.

John_Falstaff

@Haashhtaag , tempting. ^^

Though I'm sure that in best ZOS traditions, it would inherit only useless passives. Also, @code65536 , comes without saying. Sustain is a good thing when there's enough of it, if everyone could sustain the playstyle they enjoy without having to take an abrupt dip in damage, there'd be much fewer complaints.

Banana

I changed to an imperial. Was better looking.

Bigevilpeter

Banana wrote: »

I changed to an imperial. Was better looking.

Racist

JinMori

Everyone else is miserable, so redguards should be miserable too, seems reasonable.

I swear to god this line of thinking really gets on my nerves.

JinMori

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf, I said buff sustain in general so it won't be a problem for other races, currently Redguards are the problem even if they reduce redguard sustain they buff sustain general so they would still be the same.

But one viable race for stamina dd is just stupid

You also proposed to nerf redguards though, so you are at least partially guilty.

Calling other people basically stupid when you can't even read your own comment?

John_Falstaff

JinMori wrote: »

You also proposed to nerf redguards though, so you are at least partially guilty.

Calling other people basically stupid when you can't even read your own comment?

Did he? I don't see anything like that (proposal to raise sustain and nerf redguard is essentially equal to buffing everyone and leaving redguard as-is), so it might be in your head. ^^

randomkeyhits

Don't worry, I expect Redguards will be smacked with the nerfbat soon enough.

Those race change tokens don't sell themselves you know.....

JobooAGS

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf, I said buff sustain in general so it won't be a problem for other races, currently Redguards are the problem even if they reduce redguard sustain they buff sustain general so they would still be the same.

But one viable race for stamina dd is just stupid

Absorb stamina + infused = sustain for days. If you have questions, pm me

And less dps

Only about an 800 damage loss compared to having a disease/poison glyph, even less so with classes with bonuses to physical damage. Yes, I believe that 3 infused weapons is going to be best, even better than nirn/infused main bar. Bow with weapon damage, dw main/off hand with poison and absorb stam/disease. You get > 95-97% uptime on beserker enchant with this set up. 800 dps compared to not worrying about stam management as much is useful, especially in a raid set up or when you have to spend stamina blocking or rolling. Also, orbs (necrotic orb and morphs) pretty much negate the sustain issue.

JinMori

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

You also proposed to nerf redguards though, so you are at least partially guilty.

Calling other people basically stupid when you can't even read your own comment?

Did he? I don't see anything like that (proposal to raise sustain and nerf redguard is essentially equal to buffing everyone and leaving redguard as-is), so it might be in your head. ^^

Then why not just buff other races at that point?

What's the point to nerf redguard to then buff them anyway along with other races? Just buff other races, it's an unnecessary step, so it came off as, let's nerf redguards.

John_Falstaff

@JinMori , well that's what was suggested, no? Basically remove redguard exclusivity, but buff sustain across the board. So, redguard would stay at same sustain as before, but other races would enjoy same level of it as well. It's just another way of getting to the same result, that's all, really. I don't think anyone wants to bring redguards down to being just as miserable as others, everyone's fed up with heavy attacking since Morrowind and want better playstyle.

JinMori

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@JinMori , well that's what was suggested, no? Basically remove redguard exclusivity, but buff sustain across the board. So, redguard would stay at same sustain as before, but other races would enjoy same level of it as well. It's just another way of getting to the same result, that's all, really. I don't think anyone wants to bring redguards down to being just as miserable as others, everyone's fed up with heavy attacking since Morrowind and want better playstyle.

The point of redguard IS that you get better sustain, why run redguard when you can just use another race and get the same sustain?

The point is that you guys just wanna cut out flavor, everything must be streamlined, and then everything loses it;'s value because everything is the same ***.

Buff medium armor, let other races have more sustain, but the point of redguard is BETTER SUSTAIN compared other races, no one wants morrowind heavy attack meta, but cutting out race attributes, just makes the game even less flavorful.

Guess what, before morrowind you could run stamina on other races, because you had more sustain, but now it's all redguard exactly because of those nerfs.

Numerikuu

While I agree Redguards have certainly had it easier than others in terms of stamina (and for a long time now), let's not bloody nerf them, ok?

Bring the other races up to the same standard. If your player base ends up abandoning other races to utilize the one, then that probably means you should look at why that is, and making the others just as attractive.

No more *** nerfs!!!!! [yells into the void]

John_Falstaff

@JinMori , no, the point of playing redguard is in playing redguard. ^^ You see, that's -whole- point of this thread. There's 'R' in RPG for a good reason, and if everyone was choosing race for passives, nobody would have complaints about redguards - everyone would be just choosing them, what's easier? But some love khajiits, some associate with nords and orcs... and from that, arises pressure between staying what you like and be viable. Only people who enjoy playing redguards right now don't feel that pressure (unless they also like magicka, but that's different topic altogether). So bottom line, point of being redguard is playing the race you like, no more, no less. ^^ Just like with others. Before Morrowind, it was exactly that - redguards didn't see sustain as a point of playing one... because everyone had enough sustain.

@JobooAGS , I'm not sure if you can reliably proc both infused glyphs on front bar while being swapped to back bar, from DoTs only. Basically you only have two running, twin slashes (ticks every 2 seconds, no?) and sometimes cloak (ticks every 3 seconds). Glyphs proc when they're off cooldown, one at a time if I'm not mistaken? So there might be delays when you're on bow bar and both glyphs are off cooldown - one procs, one will wait up to 2 seconds until it'll proc again.

JinMori

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@JinMori , no, the point of playing redguard is in playing redguard. ^^ You see, that's -whole- point of this thread. There's 'R' in RPG for a good reason, and if everyone was choosing race for passives, nobody would have complaints about redguards - everyone would be just choosing them, what's easier? But some love khajiits, some associate with nords and orcs... and from that, arises pressure between staying what you like and be viable. Only people who enjoy playing redguards right now don't feel that pressure (unless they also like magicka, but that's different topic altogether). So bottom line, point of being redguard is playing the race you like, no more, no less. ^^ Just like with others. Before Morrowind, it was exactly that - redguards didn't see sustain as a point of playing one... because everyone had enough sustain.

@JobooAGS , I'm not sure if you can reliably proc both infused glyphs on front bar while being swapped to back bar, from DoTs only. Basically you only have two running, twin slashes (ticks every 2 seconds, no?) and sometimes cloak (ticks every 3 seconds). Glyphs proc when they're off cooldown, one at a time if I'm not mistaken? So there might be delays when you're on bow bar and both glyphs are off cooldown - one procs, one will wait up to 2 seconds until it'll proc again.

Do you actually know what the definition of a RPG game is?

A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which each participant assumes the role of a character, generally in a fantasy or science fiction setting, that can interact within the game's imaginary world.

In rpg games, which many times are fantasies, those fantasies have different races, with different attributes, for example, elves are usually more nimble than man, dwarfs are better at crafting etc, those things have been in rpg games since the beginning.

The play whatever you want with no pros and cons was never in rpgs, so you are objectively wrong.

The only thing that i agree with is this: Before Morrowind, it was exactly that - redguards didn't see sustain as a point of playing one... because everyone had enough sustain.

But only partially, because although it was true that every race could sustain, redguards were still king of sustain, and always have been, and have always been selected for their sustain, and max stam bonuses by high end players.

NolaArch

Buffing other races’ sustain and/or revisiting Morrowind sustain changes is really the only way to go. “Doing something about” Redguards or nerfing their sustain won’t do anything. That stamblade khajiit is still going to have sustain issues and will still need to run absorb stam + infused.