Redguard sustain is ruining overall PvE stamina sustain

JumpmanLane

This is just a whiney, crybaby game. "I can't compete so lower the bar so I can ."

Trinity_Is_My_Name

And another Nerf thread. LOL. Keep em coming guys!

Leogon

True but instead of nerfing Redguards, they should buff the other stam races and Breton for magicka.

TequilaFire

And then there is the High Elf.
This was a great game till players got a hold of it!

Bouldercleave

JumpmanLane wrote: »

This is just a whiney, crybaby game. "I can't compete so lower the bar so I can ."

Agreed. I have 4 Stam characters that I play and not one of them is Redguard. The game is 100% playable without HAVING to be a certain race or class.

I'll take a player that knows what they are doing over a min / max template with a noob behind the wheel any day.

Leogon

Bouldercleave wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

This is just a whiney, crybaby game. "I can't compete so lower the bar so I can ."

Agreed. I have 4 Stam characters that I play and not one of them is Redguard. The game is 100% playable without HAVING to be a certain race or class.

I'll take a player that knows what they are doing over a min / max template with a noob behind the wheel any day.

I completely agree but still, there shouldn't be a race that's better than the rest. It's called balancing but ZOS is having a hard time with that.

Bouldercleave

Leogon wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

This is just a whiney, crybaby game. "I can't compete so lower the bar so I can ."

Agreed. I have 4 Stam characters that I play and not one of them is Redguard. The game is 100% playable without HAVING to be a certain race or class.

I'll take a player that knows what they are doing over a min / max template with a noob behind the wheel any day.

I completely agree but still, there shouldn't be a race that's better than the rest. It's called balancing but ZOS is having a hard time with that.

That's just the thing, a Redguard is not THAT much better than the others. A decent player can overcome the small differences in DPS vs sustain.

Just like in real life, not everyone is the same. Nor should they be.

Sriivah

A while ago (iirc, it was the same patch that they originally were going to give Khajiit a max stam bonus), ZOS stated that they wanted Khajiit to be the damage race, Bosmer to be the sustain race, and Redguard to be the in-between race for stamina pve dps. Now, Redguard has the best damage and the best sustain, Bosmer excel really only at being gankblades and Khajiit get to play second fiddle to both of them. I feel like they should really go back to that design; give Khajiit 6-10% max stam so they truly have the best damage at the cost of the worst sustain, buff Bosmer stam sustain, and just leave Redguard as it is. I admit I like my cats and may be biased, but it seems fair to me to have each race do different things instead of having one be great at everything and leave the others grubbing for niche excuses to exist.

Also, @OtarTheMad - That magsorc was never built to do maximum dps and mostly exists for giggles. Also probably eternally parked in Alinor doing my writs.

John_Falstaff

@Bouldercleave , why, if you feel the difference is small... then I suppose you're not against nerfing Redguard sustain. After all, it's a small difference. ^^ All those folks shouting L2P and "just slot a regen glyph" probably can calm down too, after all, nerf won't hurt Redguard too much, they're just a tiny bit ahead of other races...

Bouldercleave

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Bouldercleave , why, if you feel the difference is small... then I suppose you're not against nerfing Redguard sustain. After all, it's a small difference. ^^ All those folks shouting L2P and "just slot a regen glyph" probably can calm down too, after all, nerf won't hurt Redguard too much, they're just a tiny bit ahead of other races...

Why in the world do we want every dam build, race, skill line to be exactly the friggin same? I'm not for or against it at all - because I find it insignificant.

What I am against is the continual dilution of diversity in the game. You all seem to just want to run around with the same skills, same gear, sale DPS, same resistances, same speed---it goes on and on.

Show some backbone people. Make something that is NOT the min/max paper tiger and make it work!

idk

OP's comments are not entirely correct.

Redguard sustain is situationally superior. Wood elf ofc is the opposite.

Further, OP either has not played ESO very long or has a short memory. It was not that long ago that the best choice was Kahjiit.

In other words, when OP is successful in getting the nerf hammer on the Redguard he will be complaining about whatever class has become the best, unless maybe it becomes the class he is already using.

There will always be one that is preferred over the others for one reason or another.

John_Falstaff

@Bouldercleave , because the game is competitive, and the thing it's centered about is damage. Have diversity anywhere you have (though if you'll tell me that having a tail or black skin and different lore is not enough diversity for you between races, then I'll tell you that you've chosen wrong game to play), but not where competition is. Damage is what ESO is about, and I don't know what peasant mentality should you have to be all right with knowledge that you won't ever achieve something that equally skilled player will achieve by picking redguard, simply by birthright.

OtarTheMad

Sriivah wrote: »

A while ago (iirc, it was the same patch that they originally were going to give Khajiit a max stam bonus), ZOS stated that they wanted Khajiit to be the damage race, Bosmer to be the sustain race, and Redguard to be the in-between race for stamina pve dps. Now, Redguard has the best damage and the best sustain, Bosmer excel really only at being gankblades and Khajiit get to play second fiddle to both of them. I feel like they should really go back to that design; give Khajiit 6-10% max stam so they truly have the best damage at the cost of the worst sustain, buff Bosmer stam sustain, and just leave Redguard as it is. I admit I like my cats and may be biased, but it seems fair to me to have each race do different things instead of having one be great at everything and leave the others grubbing for niche excuses to exist.

Also, @OtarTheMad - That magsorc was never built to do maximum dps and mostly exists for giggles. Also probably eternally parked in Alinor doing my writs.

Still good at it though Sri.

And I remember that too, about what ZOS wanted with the races. Players shut that down so quick.

SodanTok

idk wrote: »

OP's comments are not entirely correct.

Redguard sustain is situationally superior. Wood elf ofc is the opposite.

Further, OP either has not played ESO very long or has a short memory. It was not that long ago that the best choice was Kahjiit.

In other words, when OP is successful in getting the nerf hammer on the Redguard he will be complaining about whatever class has become the best, unless maybe it becomes the class he is already using.

There will always be one that is preferred over the others for one reason or another.

Wrong. Redguard sustain is superior in every situation where fight occurs. In game that is about fighting this puts its far above 'situational superior'.

It is very long ago Khajiit was best choice. And it was by much less significant difference than redguard is now. There is no excuse to keep one race significantly better than others. They could literally nerf redguard sustain by 66% and they would still be the best race for majority (if not all) of people so there is pretty giant leap. They could remove that sustain passive totally and redguard would be just slightly worse than khajiit in pve and still better than all others.

Bouldercleave

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Bouldercleave , because the game is competitive, and the thing it's centered about is damage. Have diversity anywhere you have (though if you'll tell me that having a tail or black skin and different lore is not enough diversity for you between races, then I'll tell you that you've chosen wrong game to play), but not where competition is. Damage is what ESO is about, and I don't know what peasant mentality should you have to be all right with knowledge that you won't ever achieve something that equally skilled player will achieve by picking redguard, simply by birthright.

You just keep chasing the carrot then - I'd rather have fun. For many of us this is not a competition, and I'm not going to lose my mind if I'm not on top of the pixel leaderboard. I have enough of that going on in the real world, I'm just here to relax and have some fun. You guys should try it some time.

OtarTheMad

SodanTok wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP's comments are not entirely correct.

Redguard sustain is situationally superior. Wood elf ofc is the opposite.

Further, OP either has not played ESO very long or has a short memory. It was not that long ago that the best choice was Kahjiit.

In other words, when OP is successful in getting the nerf hammer on the Redguard he will be complaining about whatever class has become the best, unless maybe it becomes the class he is already using.

There will always be one that is preferred over the others for one reason or another.

Wrong. Redguard sustain is superior in every situation where fight occurs. In game that is about fighting this puts its far above 'situational superior'.

It is very long ago Khajiit was best choice. And it was by much less significant difference than redguard is now. There is no excuse to keep one race significantly better than others. They could literally nerf redguard sustain by 66% and they would still be the best race so there is pretty giant leap.

What race is on top really depends on what ZOS does to the classes and what sets they introduce that can be used for endgame. So basically every quarter the top race could change. I am not sure a nerf to Redguard would do anything because in another update they could change some things with classes and by doing that boost other races and now Redguard is at the bottom of the choices.

John_Falstaff

@Bouldercleave , if you're content with the thought you'll never be shooting for anything more - then it's not your discussion then, you have nothing to gain or lose here. Thank you for this none-too-masquaraded "I have a life, you care too much about your toys", but with all respect, you know precisely nothing about people you're talking to and what life they have.

SodanTok

OtarTheMad wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP's comments are not entirely correct.

Redguard sustain is situationally superior. Wood elf ofc is the opposite.

Further, OP either has not played ESO very long or has a short memory. It was not that long ago that the best choice was Kahjiit.

In other words, when OP is successful in getting the nerf hammer on the Redguard he will be complaining about whatever class has become the best, unless maybe it becomes the class he is already using.

There will always be one that is preferred over the others for one reason or another.

Wrong. Redguard sustain is superior in every situation where fight occurs. In game that is about fighting this puts its far above 'situational superior'.

It is very long ago Khajiit was best choice. And it was by much less significant difference than redguard is now. There is no excuse to keep one race significantly better than others. They could literally nerf redguard sustain by 66% and they would still be the best race so there is pretty giant leap.

What race is on top really depends on what ZOS does to the classes and what sets they introduce that can be used for endgame. So basically every quarter the top race could change. I am not sure a nerf to Redguard would do anything because in another update they could change some things with classes and by doing that boost other races and now Redguard is at the bottom of the choices.

I am awaiting that quarter then

But no it doesnt work like that. You dont keep one race superior for year and half because you may one day introduce patch that will put it to bottom of a barrel.
And PVE is very controlled environment. Changes to classes, gear or damage calculations are constantly switching between if 10% max stam is better or worse than 8% crit on khajiit. That is balance. Except in this example redguard has OP AF sustain passive and khajiit doesnt have anything else. That is not balance.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Scarpion wrote: »

Redguard in lore has the adrenaline rush passive, they are SUPPOSED to have more sustain.

That's not how adrenaline works...

idk

SodanTok wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP's comments are not entirely correct.

Redguard sustain is situationally superior. Wood elf ofc is the opposite.

Further, OP either has not played ESO very long or has a short memory. It was not that long ago that the best choice was Kahjiit.

In other words, when OP is successful in getting the nerf hammer on the Redguard he will be complaining about whatever class has become the best, unless maybe it becomes the class he is already using.

There will always be one that is preferred over the others for one reason or another.

Wrong. Redguard sustain is superior in every situation where fight occurs. In game that is about fighting this puts its far above 'situational superior'.

You really should check your fact first. Redguard has superior regen when and only when in melee combat.

Granted in PvE and to a lesser degree in PvE we are often in melee, that does not cover every situation where fight occurs as you clearly state. Further, there is downtime in some PvE fights, not to mention downtime in PvP fights. During those times Redguards are not benefitting from Adrenal Rush.

smashcats

Im playing a redguard warden and idk what ur talking about, with my 1500 stam recovery + redguard passives, still constantly out of stamina. How am i supposed to even get around a bg without wasting half my bar sprinting? cause I sure as hell aint gonna just walk at a snails pace....im confused how all you people seem to sustain so well, who wastes there time heavy attacking in pvp? by the time u swing u get hit by 50 different abilties

Androconium

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf, I said buff sustain in general so it won't be a problem for other races, currently Redguards are the problem even if they reduce redguard sustain they buff sustain general so they would still be the same.

But one viable race for stamina dd is just stupid

yes, yes.

But historically, if it's a problem, it gets nerfed. You really should have seen it coming.

So, if nerfing Redgard isn't the solution; what is? Which race do you want to see as the alternate stamina DD?

Bouldercleave

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Bouldercleave , if you're content with the thought you'll never be shooting for anything more - then it's not your discussion then, you have nothing to gain or lose here. Thank you for this none-too-masquaraded "I have a life, you care too much about your toys", but with all respect, you know precisely nothing about people you're talking to and what life they have.

If that comment struck a chord, I know you better than you think...

Joy_Division

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow people really can't read or have low IQ.

I didnt call for a nerf...

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

The solution is to either make sustain not an issue for other races and let Redguard over sustain or to nerf Redguard sustain and adjust overall sustain accordingly.

You used to word nerf!

And even if that was not your intent, you know ZOS's history. When was the last time the buffed everything else when something was overperforming? Never?

Androconium

Hostee wrote: »

This is what happens when all the kids get participation trophies 🏆

No. That's the other discussion about not getting all the rewards.

WuffyCerulei

Sustain needs to be made better for the other stam races. No one one should be forced to go one race merely because the other races suffer with sustain.

ruikkarikun

Bait and nerf topics are ruining game.

webrgesner

people dont even accept my khajiit nb dps cuz im not a red guard even tho im pulling 48k dps but before they know that theyd be trippin bout my race

John_Falstaff

@idk, Relequen procs Adrenaline Rush, I think, so in a PvE fight there'll typically be hardly a downtime. Even for bow/bow builds.

@Bouldercleave , if you feel that your comment have struck any chord, you're flattering yourself. ^^ But by assuming things about people you don't know you do tell something about your own persona.

LizziAS

There is no PVE

There is Solo PLay, and Group Play, and PVP


PVP elitists who think that end game is a phrase that actually has some meaning, when all it really is is a phrase to shut down conversation, have divided the game up that way in order to control the conversation according to their Hegelian dialectic are in fact ignoring the real dynamics of the game in order to maintain their false sense of superority.

NEWS FLASH: There is no virtue to be found in playing a video game well. Far from making you a better person, it's more likely to encourage ugliness towards others.