John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , you omit that it's both RPG and MMO, so there's competitive factor - here is the other side of pressure I mentioned: pressure for being viable. This factor doesn't stand in single player RPGs, you're omitting that somehow.
But I already understood your point; you've been told that nobody wants to nerf redguards, but now, as it turns, it's not enough for you - you want redguards to stay on top. ^^ For a moment, I thought that you just want good gameplay for everyone, but no, as usual, it's still about yourself.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , you omit that it's both RPG and MMO, so there's competitive factor - here is the other side of pressure I mentioned: pressure for being viable. This factor doesn't stand in single player RPGs, you're omitting that somehow.
But I already understood your point; you've been told that nobody wants to nerf redguards, but now, as it turns, it's not enough for you - you want redguards to stay on top. ^^ For a moment, I thought that you just want good gameplay for everyone, but no, as usual, it's still about yourself.
You don;t seem to understand something.
The only way to have perfect balance is at the expense of flavor, if you removed every passive then every race would be the same, that's perfect balance at the expense of flavour, but if you want to keep the flavor, you can reduce the disparity, but there will always be someone on top of the dps charts, if redguard sustain was nerfed then khajiit would be the next bis race, there is no way to avoid that, other than removing all passives, but at that point, you also will remove uniqueness.
It doesn't really matter if a race is only 1 % better, people will still prefer that over the "lesser" races, it's like asking would you rather have 0 dollars or 1 dollar, or would you rather have 0 or 20 dollars, regardless, people will still gravitate over the better choice.
So it's not really about me being selfish, it;s just how reality works, if you want different passives it's impossible to perfectly balance them, you can get close, but never perfect.
Callous2208 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , you omit that it's both RPG and MMO, so there's competitive factor - here is the other side of pressure I mentioned: pressure for being viable. This factor doesn't stand in single player RPGs, you're omitting that somehow.
But I already understood your point; you've been told that nobody wants to nerf redguards, but now, as it turns, it's not enough for you - you want redguards to stay on top. ^^ For a moment, I thought that you just want good gameplay for everyone, but no, as usual, it's still about yourself.
You don;t seem to understand something.
The only way to have perfect balance is at the expense of flavor, if you removed every passive then every race would be the same, that's perfect balance at the expense of flavour, but if you want to keep the flavor, you can reduce the disparity, but there will always be someone on top of the dps charts, if redguard sustain was nerfed then khajiit would be the next bis race, there is no way to avoid that, other than removing all passives, but at that point, you also will remove uniqueness.
It doesn't really matter if a race is only 1 % better, people will still prefer that over the "lesser" races, it's like asking would you rather have 0 dollars or 1 dollar, or would you rather have 0 or 20 dollars, regardless, people will still gravitate over the better choice.
So it's not really about me being selfish, it;s just how reality works, if you want different passives it's impossible to perfectly balance them, you can get close, but never perfect.
I don't think anyone is asking for perfect balance though. Just that some races be brought up a bit to compete. As it stands now, no stamina favoring race is even close, by a long shot. Some will disagree, these people are misinformed and perhaps never participate in high level pve content.
This is the racial benefits of various races in Elder scroll:John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , well that's what was suggested, no? Basically remove redguard exclusivity, but buff sustain across the board. So, redguard would stay at same sustain as before, but other races would enjoy same level of it as well. It's just another way of getting to the same result, that's all, really. I don't think anyone wants to bring redguards down to being just as miserable as others, everyone's fed up with heavy attacking since Morrowind and want better playstyle.
The point of redguard IS that you get better sustain, why run redguard when you can just use another race and get the same sustain?
The point is that you guys just wanna cut out flavor, everything must be streamlined, and then everything loses it;'s value because everything is the same ***.
Buff medium armor, let other races have more sustain, but the point of redguard is BETTER SUSTAIN compared other races, no one wants morrowind heavy attack meta, but cutting out race attributes, just makes the game even less flavorful.
Guess what, before morrowind you could run stamina on other races, because you had more sustain, but now it's all redguard exactly because of those nerfs.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , if dark skin, or fur, or scales, and all the lore behind each race is not enough uniqueness for you - then sorry, you're probably playing wrong game. ^^ Achieving uniqueness by making certain races tangibly (and 350 regen above everyone isn't 1%, just for the record) better at doing what game's all about? A competitive multiplayer game? No, doesn't work like that. ^^
Callous2208 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , you omit that it's both RPG and MMO, so there's competitive factor - here is the other side of pressure I mentioned: pressure for being viable. This factor doesn't stand in single player RPGs, you're omitting that somehow.
But I already understood your point; you've been told that nobody wants to nerf redguards, but now, as it turns, it's not enough for you - you want redguards to stay on top. ^^ For a moment, I thought that you just want good gameplay for everyone, but no, as usual, it's still about yourself.
You don;t seem to understand something.
The only way to have perfect balance is at the expense of flavor, if you removed every passive then every race would be the same, that's perfect balance at the expense of flavour, but if you want to keep the flavor, you can reduce the disparity, but there will always be someone on top of the dps charts, if redguard sustain was nerfed then khajiit would be the next bis race, there is no way to avoid that, other than removing all passives, but at that point, you also will remove uniqueness.
It doesn't really matter if a race is only 1 % better, people will still prefer that over the "lesser" races, it's like asking would you rather have 0 dollars or 1 dollar, or would you rather have 0 or 20 dollars, regardless, people will still gravitate over the better choice.
So it's not really about me being selfish, it;s just how reality works, if you want different passives it's impossible to perfectly balance them, you can get close, but never perfect.
I don't think anyone is asking for perfect balance though. Just that some races be brought up a bit to compete. As it stands now, no stamina favoring race is even close, by a long shot. Some will disagree, these people are misinformed and perhaps never participate in high level pve content.
This is the racial benefits of various races in Elder scroll:John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , well that's what was suggested, no? Basically remove redguard exclusivity, but buff sustain across the board. So, redguard would stay at same sustain as before, but other races would enjoy same level of it as well. It's just another way of getting to the same result, that's all, really. I don't think anyone wants to bring redguards down to being just as miserable as others, everyone's fed up with heavy attacking since Morrowind and want better playstyle.
The point of redguard IS that you get better sustain, why run redguard when you can just use another race and get the same sustain?
The point is that you guys just wanna cut out flavor, everything must be streamlined, and then everything loses it;'s value because everything is the same ***.
Buff medium armor, let other races have more sustain, but the point of redguard is BETTER SUSTAIN compared other races, no one wants morrowind heavy attack meta, but cutting out race attributes, just makes the game even less flavorful.
Guess what, before morrowind you could run stamina on other races, because you had more sustain, but now it's all redguard exactly because of those nerfs.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Races
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
Redgards has higher starting endurance in Oblivion and Morrowind, Orc has the same stats. Using Oblivion and Daggerfall as main source here as Daggerfall was very different, redguards has lower endurance than default for one.
...if you don’t want to do that. If all you care about is the MMO min/max aspect of the game, then it shouldn’t matter to you what race you’re pigeon-holed into for competitive PvE. Then everyone else who likes having the racial flavor can still have their variety too.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , well then let's bring everyone within a few percent to one another, not the vast difference like we have now. It's achievable, and I'm sure it will satisfy most players except die-hard meta-minded ones. Reducing differences to the point where player skill matters more than passives is where it's at, I'd say.
usmcjdking wrote: »The Redguard complaints in this thread are massively unwarranted.
Arenaline rush equals about as much sustain as 1`heavy attack every 25 seconds. If you can't manage one heavy and are like"I'M OUT OF STAM" then you need to l2p.
Haashhtaag wrote: »Maybe if ZOS wouldn’t have nerfed sustain khajiits would still be a thing.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@usmcjdking , even assuming your number is right, that's every other rotation. If you're going to tell me that it won't make your DPS drop, then you're not going to be honest. ^^ And I'm not even mentioning how it affects the gameplay of a DPS.
@Juju_beans , people who don't care about the game they're playing, in fact, do precisely that. Problem is, most people still do care.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , no, the point of playing redguard is in playing redguard. ^^ You see, that's -whole- point of this thread. There's 'R' in RPG for a good reason, and if everyone was choosing race for passives, nobody would have complaints about redguards - everyone would be just choosing them, what's easier? But some love khajiits, some associate with nords and orcs... and from that, arises pressure between staying what you like and be viable. Only people who enjoy playing redguards right now don't feel that pressure (unless they also like magicka, but that's different topic altogether). So bottom line, point of being redguard is playing the race you like, no more, no less. ^^ Just like with others. Before Morrowind, it was exactly that - redguards didn't see sustain as a point of playing one... because everyone had enough sustain.
@JobooAGS , I'm not sure if you can reliably proc both infused glyphs on front bar while being swapped to back bar, from DoTs only. Basically you only have two running, twin slashes (ticks every 2 seconds, no?) and sometimes cloak (ticks every 3 seconds). Glyphs proc when they're off cooldown, one at a time if I'm not mistaken? So there might be delays when you're on bow bar and both glyphs are off cooldown - one procs, one will wait up to 2 seconds until it'll proc again.