Redguard sustain is ruining overall PvE stamina sustain

MehrunesFlagon

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@MehrunesFlagon , not everyone's so shallow that they're playing MMORPG game for stats and achievements alone. Some equally value both MMO and RPG parts.

I thought about that,however if one is not so concerned with the stats.What does their issue stem from?

John_Falstaff

@MehrunesFlagon , it's not what I wrote though. What I wrote is 'concerned with both stats and race', that's completely different thing. Game has competitive side (because online MMO) and roleplaying side (because, naturally, RPG). And imbalanced racial passives create source of pressure between those two sides. Some players have to live under the pressure from competitive side for being inferior through simply staying true to themselves.

ezio45

NO NO MORE NERFS



STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MaleAmazon

@John_Falstaff

you shouldn't assume that I don't want to run for leaderboards. Or anyone else doesn't want to run for leaderboards. If not now, then in the future; and surely nobody enjoys that sort of pressure - 'no worries, as long as you choose to stay peasants, your choice of race won't ever matter'. Imagine that female characters had -50 spell and weapon damage compared to male characters. It's all right, really? You still can complete any content in the game as female character, no big deal. But would you get behind it? Rhetoric question.

(I´ll ignore the 'rhetoric question' part). No, it *wouldn´t* be all right to differentiate between males and females, and that´s my own point. It´s fine to run for leaderboards. Heck, I run for them myself sometimes. But here´s the lowdown in numbered list form;

1. RPGs actually did use to do stuff like give females less STR and more AGL etc. Morrowind for example.

2. Elder Scrolls has deliberately moved away from locking people into such choices and stereotypes. Level caps were done away with eventually in Skyrim, you didn´t have to lock your birthsign in character creation, race attribute bonuses were removed, and people could / would mod race powers since it was single player.

3. I am simply annoyed that people write 'X is useless', when they actually mean 'X is slightly subpar as a choice for something 1% of the game population does'.

4. Removing race bonuses for leaderboard content would remove the complaint. My more evil side says people might not want this since it removes one possible source of blame for their own failure. Letting leaderboard concerns dictate what happens to the *entire* game population is IMO a bit much.

5. Race bonuses are likely mostly in as a source of revenue since ZOS can sell 'tokens' that allow you to perform basic game functions. (Still waiting for that 'competently made UI' in the crown store...)

6. Personally I think it would make for a better game if race bonuses were replaced by a 'passive character skills' pool that you could choose from to differentiate characters. Similar to Diablo 3 but locked in unless you respeced and not class bound. So you could give stealth bonuses like faster stealth movement or increased regen in stealth for your stealthy stamina character, and max stamina or 'gain 3 ultimate when killing something' for your brawny stamina character.

P.S. If it wasn´t obvious from the above ranting, I am much in favour of freeform choice. I find the race stereotypes in ESO detrimental to gameplay since it locks *all* Altmer into Magicka for example. You want a stamina Altmer, it is pretty much going to be subpar, period. Regardless of everything else, your character is supposed to defy any race stereotype.

I know that is harder to do in ESO when 'Arrghonian Pirate Badazz145' joins in on your Murkmire Path of the Lily quest bossfight...

ImmortalCX

Murkmire sustain is a weird thing. I'm sure people on the PTS figured this out a while ago...

If you really want a night/day difference in sustain, put an absorb stamina enchant on your backbar bow. Wow, its like a different game. Staminagalore.

I have a feeling that the redguard sustain bonus is tiny compared to this. My redguard needs the enchant.

Who actually has two identical characters of different races to test this stuff? I think its the *idea* that the races are different that bothers people, not the reality. People don't know the reality beyond what they're told.

Even if stamblade meta was (secretly) Khajit, it would take people months/years to figure it out because they were fixated on Redguard superiority.

TheYKcid

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@MehrunesFlagon , not everyone's so shallow that they're playing MMORPG game for stats and achievements alone. Some equally value both MMO and RPG parts.

But surely you must see the dissonance between valuing the RPG elements of the game, while also wanting to min-max.

To put things into perspective from my own situation—my first toon ever on ESO was a Breton DK. I was fresh, only had experience with Skyrim, and was going for the whole "high-fantasy Celtic knight" archetype.

Well it sucked from an optimisation standpoint. Even when I started to get more seriously about PvE, remorphed him into magDK, adopted a meta build/rotation, I was still pulling ~3K solo DPS less than my Dunmer guildies.

And that's absolutely fine. I respect the lore and setting of the game enough to accept that a Breton shouldn't be pulling as much weight as a Dunmer on a fire-based class. And it's hasn't stopped me from clearing any of the trials and arenas I set my sights on.

From an RP standpoint, it really isn't so hard to accept that the most renown race of swordsmen have the best combat endurance. From a min-max perspective, it has never been easier to roll a new toon, or race-change your current (which can even be done with gold now). Both camps should have no quarrel, really.

MaleAmazon

From an RP standpoint, it really isn't so hard to accept that the most renown race of swordsmen have the best combat endurance. From a min-max perspective, it has never been easier to roll a new toon, or race-change your current (which can even be done with gold now). Both camps should have no quarrel, really.

Well.. really? I have to say it sort of annoys me that every Nord character I make is a subpar magician. There is a difference between saying that 'Nords in general shun magic' (which is fine) and saying 'every single Nord in Tamriel is innately worse at magic than any single Breton' (which ESO does and IMO this is not good).

Att1Tude

What in flying **** really community

TheYKcid

MaleAmazon wrote: »

From an RP standpoint, it really isn't so hard to accept that the most renown race of swordsmen have the best combat endurance. From a min-max perspective, it has never been easier to roll a new toon, or race-change your current (which can even be done with gold now). Both camps should have no quarrel, really.

Well.. really? I have to say it sort of annoys me that every Nord character I make is a subpar magician. There is a difference between saying that 'Nords in general shun magic' (which is fine) and saying 'every single Nord in Tamriel is innately worse at magic than any single Breton' (which ESO does and IMO this is not good).

You could most definitely pull more DPS on a Nord magicka DPS, compared to a Breton counterpart, if you had a better build, rotation, CP allocation/total, knowledge of a fight, etc.

That's a different way of saying "Nords may not have a natural affinity for magic, but those dedicated enough can eventually develop a better grasp of it than some of their more magically-inclined peers".

But ALL other factors being equal, will a Nord be just as good at magic as a Breton? No, and they shouldn't.

D0PAMINE

Sustain needs just a tiny boost for everyone. Just a teensy nudge. That or completely eliminate the resource drain bug please. PLEASE.

MaleAmazon

You could most definitely pull more DPS on a Nord magicka DPS, compared to a Breton counterpart, if you had a better build, rotation, CP allocation/total, knowledge of a fight, etc.

That's a different way of saying "Nords may not have a natural affinity for magic, but those dedicated enough can eventually develop a better grasp of it than some of their more magically-inclined peers".

But ALL other factors being equal, will a Nord be just as good as magic than a Breton? No, and they shouldn't.

Again, this comes from a standpoint that all members of a certain race are innately better than any member of another race, and that the 'inferior' race must 'overcome' this. I´ll refrain from making a real life metaphor since it would come across as.. well, racist ...

It doesn´t make sense gameplaywise. It doesn´t make sense realism-wise either, since individuals vary in innate ability, so then why can your character potentially spend as many attribute points as mine, in the first place? Why doesn´t my taller character have less stealth and more speed and WD? Part of me (again, the part) kinda wishes they´d introduce random dice rolls for how many attribute points we get to spend, like 5d10, while adding rerolls purchasable in the crown store

And again, even if it was the case that every single NPC woodelf was innately more talented at archery than every single NPC altmer (which it isn´t) - your character is your character and isn´t supposed to be bound by such notions.

Quite frankly it only makes sense from a 'ZOS finances' standpoint. No dice

Oberstein

redguard is fine.

cheops

Really????

Everyone has eight character slots and the goalposts move all the time so just make some alts and learn a range of playstyles and stop expecting the game to adapt to meet your needs and wants.

Amanuensis

Problem: I don't want to play a Redguard because it breaks my RP Immersion. But I want Redguard sustain when I'm playing:

a)Garfield/neko fantasy

b)Snipe spamming midget ganker

c)My Horde main from that other MMO

Solution:

a)Give Redguards a catsuit costume

b)Instead of honoring their dead, make Redguards eat them instead

c)Give Redguards a severe under bite and some tusks

Lord-Otto

Stamina sustain should be nerfed, period. No longer stacking weapon damage and ignoring sustain. Use sustain food and sets, and heavy attacks like everyone else.