Redguard sustain is ruining overall PvE stamina sustain

usmcjdking

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I actually remember a while back, when Khajiit was getting an additional racial bonus to be competitive. IIRC it was 6% Max Stamina, which made a lot of sense mathematically to balance the races. At the time, the forums blew up with nerf threads about how they didn’t want to be obligated to play a cat and how it would be too OP. The changes were reverted before that patch went live. That is why we only have one viable race today. Keep up the complaining and soon we’ll have zero.

It's important to know that the only comparative race to Khajiit at this time was Orc and Orc was still a solid 6-7% behind in DPS.

@usmcjdking It’s been awhile, so I could be remembering wrong, but wasn’t Redguard the same then as it is now? AFAIK, Redguard’s 10% Max Stamina has always been within 2% damage output of Khajiit’s 8% crit chance. And even before Morrowind sustain changes, the other Redguard bonuses weren’t completely useless, while Khajiit stealth and health regen typically were for PVE. I have a hard time believing that Khajiit was ever more than 1% DPS ahead of Redguard.

Orc is an interesting one because it’s 4% damage bonus only applies to melee attacks, and even if doing 100% melee (unlikely with hail, caltrops, and poison injection) it still only gives about 3% more DPS due to additive bonus calculations. Their 6% stamina is worth maybe another 2% DPS. I could see them falling between Redguard and Khajiit in some scenarios (still talking Pre-Morrowind), but the differences wouldn’t have been nearly 6-7%, more like 1-2%.

Anyway, correct me if any of my info is incorrect. I’m going mostly by memory of my Khajiit Sorc, Redguard DK, and Orc Nightblade, so I was never able to do a fair side-by-side comparison without class being a big factor (and no target dummies back then for testing), and it’s been a long time since the days we’re referencing.

@WrathOfInnos

It wasn't necessarily Khajiit. It was Khajiit + Warhorn and Trap. This was when Warhorn gave a 30% multiplicative buff value to CHD which with TBS shadow/thief threw your CHD well over 100 making that 8% crit almost a solid 10-12% DPS increase.

IZZEFlameLash

How about instead of nerfing, ask for buffs to other races' sustain? As far as stam sustain goes, race doesn't really matter with fast charge heavy attacks and what not. I suggest not to spam Caltrops every 3 seconds or something for sustain.

NyxWrench

Fixing my mistakes from the earlier post:


Bosmer sorcerer:

Summoning passive increased stamina and health recovery with slotted skills. Removing that leaves 621 magicka, 309 health, and 621 stamina.

Subtract racial from stamina and the result is 514 (1.72). No CP bonus, no class bonus.

10% magicka recovery came from Capacitor passive. Factoring that out leaves 11%, gained from CP. No class bonus.

Health of 309. Possible baseline.

Base for magicka and stamina is 514 (1.72). No hidden bonus from class for any of magicka, stamina, health.


Bosmer nightblade:

+15% to magicka, stamina, and health from Refreshing Shadows passive. That cancels out the supposed bonus for magicka and stamina, but leaves health low.

Values: 591 magicka, 355 health, 740 stamina. Subtract passive traits and CP, and the base values should be: 514, 309, 514.

Base magicka and stamina are 514 (1.72). Same base 309 health as the sorcerer.


Nord dragonknight:

Magicka, health, and stamina of 514, 360, 560. Subtract 9% stamina from CP, leaving 514, 360, 514. Subtract 20% racial bonus for health recovery, and it leaves 514, 309, 514.

Base magicka and stamina are 514 (1.72). Same base 309 health as the sorcerer.


***

So my former conclusion is wrong. There is no inherent class-based recovery improvement other than that provided by the passives in the skill trees. Baseline recovery values are 514 for magicka and stamina (1.72 * 299), and 309 for health. That also implies that there are no additional hidden bonuses for the races, in terms of the base recovery values.

***

From there, the original conclusion for the Redguard bonus returns.

If a deficit of 100 recovery is acceptable (enough to run out of stamina in around 5 minutes, while a Redguard is still maintaining steady), then, roughly speaking, a Bosmer would need an extra 78 in stamina recovery, and a race without any stamina recovery buffs would need an extra 155 stamina recovery. Basically, one piece of jewelry set for recovery should put you within spitting distance of a Redguard.

Of course, while you might think that other passives would help balance that out (such as the Khajiit's boost to critical damage), the Redguard's boost to max stamina also boosts damage, so there's nothing really gained there. Redguard gets all combat boosts, while other races get combat+utility (stealth, resistances, health, etc).

I think Altmer is the only other race that is purely offense-oriented, and it is likewise considered the 'best' ('only') option for magic-focused builds. I've found the over-reliance on Altmer as the only real choice for magicka builds to be annoying, and could see the same annoyance in people's view of Redguards on the stamina side.

I would not mind if they swapped out any of the racial traits in those races to something more utility or survival oriented. Even if Redguard continued to have the highest sustain, if it wasn't paired with higher damage due to the max stamina boost, I don't think the complaints would be here.

On the other hand, it's not unreasonable for the devs to have a couple race choices that are purely for those only interested in max damage, as they're sacrificing the utility and survivability that other races get. It's a legitimate player choice to go that route. The problem is when it becomes the only recommended/allowed choice, and the accompanying view that choosing anything else is 'wrong'.

If it were me, I'd take out the max stamina on Redguards, and let their specialty be sustain (compared to Orcs' melee or Khajiits' crits). For Altmer, I'd take out the magicka recovery, and let their specialty be pure damage (compared to the Breton's focus on efficiency, and the Dunmer's mix of stamina). I'm not sure what I'd replace each option with (maybe boost health recovery for Redguard, since it's in the same theme), but having two races designed for pure offense, compared to the mix of utility in all the other races, just seems unbalanced when you consider the "human interaction" factor of players influencing players.

Basically, it's not a real problem in isolation; it's only a problem in the context of how players force other players to play.

After all, I'm happy with my Bosmer magSorc, despite the race options being utterly worthless for the class choice. I just don't kid myself in thinking I wouldn't be heavily snubbed if I got anywhere close to endgame activities.

Monsieur

I don’t know where this myth comes from but redguards do not have infinite sustain - they did during the heavy attack meta but those days are long gone.
Yes, redguards have slightly better sustain than non-redguards but a redguard still has to use dubious camoran throne, have an absorb stamina glyph and rely on shards/orbs to not run completely out of stamina while using an exclusively light attack rotation. Throw in an emergency Vigor or two and they’re out of stamina just like any other class.

It is absurd to call for a nerf to redguards when the correct call is to raise base sustain for everyone. It’s not just stamina characters suffering with sustain.

John_Falstaff

@Monsieur , I wouldn't call it "slightly", but point in case, nobody suggests to nerf redguad. Suggestion is to bring sustain up over the board, so nobody would have to heavily gimp oneself for damage just to sustain an engaging rotation and enjoy the DPS role as the race they enjoy.

Title of the whole thread might be misleading as the line of conversation goes. But I do see some detrimental effect in that devs may be using redguad as a lithmus paper for the state of stamina sustain in general. That's why I also would really like to take a glance at their internal parses they've shown to reps on the meeting, and see if they're done on redguad characters. Which would explain why ZOS feels all's good and dandy.

Navras

You guys really need to stop all these "nerf this nerf that" threads.

If sustained isn't ok on other races, start a thread to suggest some buff instead.

Sotha_Sil

Nerf argonians!!! oops wrong thread.

FR0STDEE

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/profile/DanteYoda

FR0STDEE

@ginnymouse80_ESO

Nifty2g

jlmurra2 wrote: »

The same is true of Argonians for tank builds. Redguard is almost always the recommended race for almost all stamina builds, and Argonian is almost always the recommended race for almost all tank builds.

The other stamina focused races need a buff to compete with Redguard, and the other tank focused races need a buff to compete with Argonian.

Eh? Argonian sucks for a tank race

Elsterchen

Hmm, if anything: nerf relequen.

Too much damage, too much sustain... why is everyone and their mother using this set to compare stam classes ?

Needs to be tuned down.

Hateanthem

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

BuddyAces

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

Hateanthem

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

I didn't fail to grasp anything BUDDY. There are 7 pages of back and forth and people whining about how they can't sustain like a Redguard.

"Same level of sustain." "want the gap closer".

Basically the same thing, BUDDY.

BuddyAces

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

I didn't fail to grasp anything BUDDY. There are 7 pages of back and forth and people whining about how they can't sustain like a Redguard.

"Same level of sustain." "want the gap closer".

Basically the same thing, BUDDY.

Not really. The gap is too large. Always has been. All my stam toons are redguard because the difference is too much. If they were closer it would open up more options.

Katahdin

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

Because we don't want to play a redguard and see nothing but redguards for stam everywhere

Hateanthem

Katahdin wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

Because we don't want to play a redguard and see nothing but redguards for stam everywhere

Then don't play one?

BuddyAces

Katahdin wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

Because we don't want to play a redguard and see nothing but redguards for stam everywhere

I think you and I arguing with a bunch of rp'rs who don't understand the differential between the races.

BuddyAces

Hateanthem wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

Because we don't want to play a redguard and see nothing but redguards for stam everywhere

Then don't play one?

And gimp yourself in the process? Having to do more heavy attacks (a la morrowind changes which was bad but that's for a diff topic) or slot more regen glyphs to bring it up to par but lose dps...no thanks.

Hateanthem

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

I didn't fail to grasp anything BUDDY. There are 7 pages of back and forth and people whining about how they can't sustain like a Redguard.

"Same level of sustain." "want the gap closer".

Basically the same thing, BUDDY.

Not really. The gap is too large. Always has been. All my stam toons are redguard because the difference is too much. If they were closer it would open up more options.

So because min/maxers (I'll admit, I'm one too) use Redguard for stam recovery, that means your only option is to play a Redguard? Redguard may be the best at stam sustain, but you don't have to play one.

You say closing the gap will give you more options, but you already have those options. You CHOOSE to pigeonhole yourself into a meta mindset.

What is it with ESO players and this obsession with getting everything, the exact way they want it? It's not just on this topic, it's everything it seems.

You have options, make use of them. I see plenty of build videos and guides where people say Redguard is preferable, but any other race would work as well.

And be honest, even if they brought the other races' sustain to be less than Redguards, but much closer, you would still play a Redguard. You would play anything that is considered meta because you think that small advantage is going to bring enjoyment to your gameplay.

BuddyAces

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

I didn't fail to grasp anything BUDDY. There are 7 pages of back and forth and people whining about how they can't sustain like a Redguard.

"Same level of sustain." "want the gap closer".

Basically the same thing, BUDDY.

Not really. The gap is too large. Always has been. All my stam toons are redguard because the difference is too much. If they were closer it would open up more options.

So because min/maxers (I'll admit, I'm one too) use Redguard for stam recovery, that means your only option is to play a Redguard? Redguard may be the best at stam sustain, but you don't have to play one.

You say closing the gap will give you more options, but you already have those options. You CHOOSE to pigeonhole yourself into a meta mindset.

What is it with ESO players and this obsession with getting everything, the exact way they want it? It's not just on this topic, it's everything it seems.

You have options, make use of them. I see plenty of build videos and guides where people say Redguard is preferable, but any other race would work as well.

And be honest, even if they brought the other races' sustain to be less than Redguards, but much closer, you would still play a Redguard. You would play anything that is considered meta because you think that small advantage is going to bring enjoyment to your gameplay.

Wouldn't be asking for changes if I wanted to play something else. You may not play at a level to be able to tell the difference but not all of us are nightblades who don't need to worry about sustain.

Playing another race is a step back, if that don't bother you then buffing other classes shouldn't either.

Hateanthem

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

I didn't fail to grasp anything BUDDY. There are 7 pages of back and forth and people whining about how they can't sustain like a Redguard.

"Same level of sustain." "want the gap closer".

Basically the same thing, BUDDY.

Not really. The gap is too large. Always has been. All my stam toons are redguard because the difference is too much. If they were closer it would open up more options.

So because min/maxers (I'll admit, I'm one too) use Redguard for stam recovery, that means your only option is to play a Redguard? Redguard may be the best at stam sustain, but you don't have to play one.

You say closing the gap will give you more options, but you already have those options. You CHOOSE to pigeonhole yourself into a meta mindset.

What is it with ESO players and this obsession with getting everything, the exact way they want it? It's not just on this topic, it's everything it seems.

You have options, make use of them. I see plenty of build videos and guides where people say Redguard is preferable, but any other race would work as well.

And be honest, even if they brought the other races' sustain to be less than Redguards, but much closer, you would still play a Redguard. You would play anything that is considered meta because you think that small advantage is going to bring enjoyment to your gameplay.

Wouldn't be asking for changes if I wanted to play something else. You may not play at a level to be able to tell the difference but not all of us are nightblades who don't need to worry about sustain.

Playing another race is a step back, if that don't bother you then buffing other classes shouldn't either.

Not a nightblade, BUDDY.

And which is it, you want races buffed or classes buffed?

And if you can't make another race work for a build, then I'm guessing you don't play at that high of a level either.

Androconium

Katahdin wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

Because we don't want to play a redguard and see nothing but redguards for stam everywhere

What's wrong with playing a Redguard?

BuddyAces

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

So you are asking to buff the other stam races to be in line with Redguard, completely negating Redguards racial passives? Sounds legit.

Then once everyone else has been brought up to the same level of sustain, we will have to buff Redguards sustain again in order to keep their Racial passives unique, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs, which will cause Redguards to be buffed, which will cause everyone to ask for buffs.... and the neverending cycle goes on.

How about, if you want their racial passives you...wait for it, you aren't going to believe how brilliant this is.... roll Redguard.

How bout you read more carefully what everyone's asking. Nobody is asking to be the same as redguard, we want the gap closer. If you're failing to grasp this then I don't know what to tell ya

I didn't fail to grasp anything BUDDY. There are 7 pages of back and forth and people whining about how they can't sustain like a Redguard.

"Same level of sustain." "want the gap closer".

Basically the same thing, BUDDY.

Not really. The gap is too large. Always has been. All my stam toons are redguard because the difference is too much. If they were closer it would open up more options.

So because min/maxers (I'll admit, I'm one too) use Redguard for stam recovery, that means your only option is to play a Redguard? Redguard may be the best at stam sustain, but you don't have to play one.

You say closing the gap will give you more options, but you already have those options. You CHOOSE to pigeonhole yourself into a meta mindset.

What is it with ESO players and this obsession with getting everything, the exact way they want it? It's not just on this topic, it's everything it seems.

You have options, make use of them. I see plenty of build videos and guides where people say Redguard is preferable, but any other race would work as well.

And be honest, even if they brought the other races' sustain to be less than Redguards, but much closer, you would still play a Redguard. You would play anything that is considered meta because you think that small advantage is going to bring enjoyment to your gameplay.

Wouldn't be asking for changes if I wanted to play something else. You may not play at a level to be able to tell the difference but not all of us are nightblades who don't need to worry about sustain.

Playing another race is a step back, if that don't bother you then buffing other classes shouldn't either.

Not a nightblade, BUDDY.

And which is it, you want races buffed or classes buffed?

And if you can't make another race work for a build, then I'm guessing you don't play at that high of a level either.

You can make it work by sacrificing dps. Why would you do that?

TequilaFire

This game has way to much emphasis on DPS. My Bosmar NB does just as well as my Redguard NB with tweaks to builds.

Bigevilpeter

TequilaFire wrote: »

This game has way to much emphasis on DPS. My Bosmar NB does just as well as my Redguard NB with tweaks to builds.

Redguards have more max Stamina and more sustain, tweaks definitely means less dps its just maths

TequilaFire

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

This game has way to much emphasis on DPS. My Bosmar NB does just as well as my Redguard NB with tweaks to builds.

Redguards have more max Stamina and more sustain, tweaks definitely means less dps its just maths

The point is... So what?
The difference is negligible unless you are a fanatic.

DeadlyPhoenix

It's always funny to see people who ask for nerfs one week, turn around the next week and tell people to stop whining for nerfs.

As if they weren't just full blown arguing over why said skill/class needs to be nerfed and now that their skill/class is targeted it's suddenly time to stop crying nerf....

Get used to it. This game is full of cry babies who chase meta and devs with no common sense or knowledge of how their game actually plays.

Want this game to be balanced? Stop giving them your money.

llSRRll

I agree I think they should buff heavy attack rotations so that the other races can compete with them.

ImmortalCX

This is a conspiracy theory i cant prove, but they did a stealth nerf to redguard sustain in murkmire. That or its bugged, or there is a sodt cap. And it has nothing to do with skill cost increases

Its like once you are empty, the passive doesnt work. If i go near empty, i cant even maintain my spammable. With a sustain glyph and food my stam doesnt regen enough to keep using la/flurry..which is a cheap skill. Before when i got empty i used to be able to at least spam, now sustain cant even do that. Honestly it feels like there is a sustain debuff sometimes.

It might be a nerf of orzagas triple trifle pocket, or a soft cap.

Also i suspect its a bug because its not consistent. Like i sais sometimes i cant even do my cheap spammable anymore and this is a redguard with extra sustain glyphs and food.

The point is...dont believe what game text says. There was an unreported change or nerf or bug to redguard sustain in murkmire. Just because it says redguard passive doesnt mean its still in play.