PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

pwidsten

ZOS Developers,

I get the idea here, I do. But this is much simpler than your proposed solutions.

IMO: Shield stacking is the reason shields are over powered in PvE and PvP, not the reactive vs proactive use or the cast time, or really any other reason. Overload Ultimate is maybe too powerful in certain situations damage wise, but it's also a significant part of a massive number of builds for utility purposes. Crowd control abilities are just too different in general and all versions need adjustments for PvP purposes.

Here's another idea.

1. Shields
a. Make the last shield cast over-write the previous. Example: If you've got Harness Magicka up and you cast Healing Ward, now you only have Healing Ward up.
b. Critical hits can critically hit a shield (this will still really hurt Healing Ward's practical PvP use, but it now becomes a decision on how to play your character which is better imo).
c. Duration a shield is active and amount of hps a shield protects/adds should scale with Magicka/Stamina pool and be adjusted via PTS server testing for PvE vs PvP. This gives developers the benefit of individually tailoring them for both content types now and in the future.
d. They retain an instant cast time.

2. Overload Ultimate (based on your proposed changes this is clearly an ability that you feel needs significant changes)
a. Both morphs aid Magicka and Stamina users.
b. One morph adds a third ability bar, but reduces damage dealt (utility vs output).
c. One morph improves damage dealt, but does not include a third ability bar (again, utility vs output).

3. Crowd Control Abilities in Total
a. All CC abilities that stun/knock-back/immobilize should behave in a similar fashion in PvP (this solves them from being OP or under/over utilized).
b. All CC abilities can and should have different visual effects, so there is still class-based difference to learn from the player perspective.

PW

JadonSky

Shield changes:
I tested the shield cast time change and it is horrible. It has ruined the Sorc class for PVP and PVE bc our one defense while using light armor was shields. The thought that increasing the shield duration would help just showed how much you don't know about the game play for this class. Anyone who uses a sorc knows shields last less then 1 second in a battle hints why we casted over and over again. Now with the ability to crit they will die out even faster. I have unsubscribed and will not be purchasing anything from ESO until this is removed. I encourage others to do the same because the only thing we have as a player against them is money.

Overlord: To be honest I have not used overlord in a long time. Being able to use my weapon skills while in overload seems pretty good for DPS. But I know a lot of support classes and stam user needed the third bar and this was one of the things that separated sorcs from other classes.

Rune:
You guys kill this skill last patch so stopped using it then and won't be using it now.

ExhumedToConsume

Thraben wrote: »

Sorc Tanks - detailed feedback.
3) Dark Deal: We economists have a very simple understanding of saving: People prefer having money now than having money in maybe 10 years. Because, you know, in 10 years you might already be dead. Thus, the interest rate must be reliably high enough to motivate people to save money. The same principle applies to the new Dark Deal. Even worse, I´m getting punished if I have to use the skill more often than, say, 20 seconds. For a laughable interest rate of 2% more ressource regen? Naaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BaylorCorvette

Thraben wrote: »

3) Dark Deal: We economists have a very simple understanding of saving: People prefer having money now than having money in maybe 10 years. Because, you know, in 10 years you might already be dead. Thus, the interest rate must be reliably high enough to motivate people to save money. The same principle applies to the new Dark Deal. Even worse, I´m getting punished if I have to use the skill more often than, say, 20 seconds. For a laughable interest rate of 2% more ressource regen? Naaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh....

YUP. That was my thoughts when I first saw this. The return on investment isn't there.

Beardimus

Maybe ZOS should.explain.what they think the problem.is and let us discuss solutions.

Clearly they think this is the answer on wards.. But the answer to what exactly

Chrlynsch

Heymexa wrote: »

After changing the magic shields:

Dear developers. My views look like this:

1. I propose to remove the opportunity to become invisible in the Nightblade class.
2. I suggest removing all the abilities to heal from the Templar and Warden classes.
3. I propose to remove all the fire damage abilities of Dragonknight class. Remove the opportunity to use the shield.

Sorcerer in PVP. RIP. 17.09.2018.

They made a set for this

Sebar80

Fresh from the PTS

Hard to find anyone in Cyrodiil. Battlegrounds seems to be inactive, been queuing for over an hour.

1. Overload - not strong (maybe its a gear choice) and very clunky, animation an weaving with skills looks like epilepsy attack, also ability used to enable 3rd unique "buff" bar now completely gone, taking from stam sorc its uniqueness and in my case affecting the damage potential in PVP. No one in their right mind would run stam sorc in PVE anyway

2. Dark exchange and morphs - another direct hit at stam sorc in my case, the sustain is gone, laughable 2.4k stamina back, you are better off by heavy attacking.

Stam sorc seems to be killed for me with this changes

I main tanks in PVE, including also sorc tank and don't see how this would help me. As a channel I would like to have insta cast and then it can return all its content over 20 second with no up front gratification.

3.New crystal frag proc indication is really bad, white turning to light pink no special effect no nothing hard to see when fighting. It should be more distinctive telegraph. Going by run cage new telegraph we should have a small elephant jumping in front of us

4.Rune cage, had only 6 fights (5 1v1 and 1 1v2) however could not land a single stun, people were clearly having good time breaking it, at this point in time as good as being removed from game completely, just put a place holder in its place.
To be more spoon fed by ZOS to break from this skill we should have a toggle under combat setting break rune cage on/off and be done with it. It seems also to draw a lot of resources as it cannot hit but uses magica. Had very hard time sustaining with lich and EG.

5. Shields are DEAD, there is absolutely no point when you need them and have 1 second cast time you are dead anyway. i had more success running bound aegis front bar, casting it, bar swapping to cast healing ward and streaking to stun all while blocking. Extra dmg mitigation by blocking was saving my hide more reliably than "buffed" shields.

After entertaining myself with the new shield mechanic for some time I came to conclusion that its only purpose is to play animation of sorcs (in PVP) and any magica (in PVE) sh***g themselves a moments before getting killed.

Well DONE combat design team the whole class uniqueness both magica and stamina killed in one sweep

oxygen_thief

pwidsten wrote: »

1. Shields
a. Make the last shield cast over-write the previous. Example: If you've got Harness Magicka up and you cast Healing Ward, now you only have Healing Ward up.

what is a sense to cast healing ward and dont cover it with another ward? do you know what are you talking about?

Sebar80

Also to add to my comment number 5. I am running temporal guard on back bar so bar bar swapping I had always small shield to cover healing ward.

I am waiting until next PTS patch notes, if this persists I am cancelling my 2 subscriptions

clocksstoppe

Good riddance, maybe sorcs will actually be killable now. A proper shield stacking sorc will never die, it will just run when it thinks it can't kill you fast.

JadonSky

Sebar80 wrote: »

Also to add to my comment number 5. I am running temporal guard on back bar so bar bar swapping I had always small shield to cover healing ward.

I am waiting until next PTS patch notes, if this persists I am cancelling my 2 subscriptions

I already canceled mine and forwarded my cancelation confirmation email to ZOS with my reason why and until this is changed I will not resub.

This change has killed the sorc class. I think its funny that they think increasing the shield duration would help, this just shows how much the balance team does not understand what they are doing. Everyone who plays a light armor with shields knows they don't last longer then 1-2 seconds when in a fight. Now that you can crit shields they will last even less time. Putting a cast time on top of that they are not even worth using because you will die before you can ever even get it cast since it can interrupted.

To be honest I hate to even mention the interrupted part because then ZOS will think "Oh we can make them happy by making it uninterruptible" which won't help.

To those few on here that are saying "Oh get over it, its not that bad" have not actually gone on PTS to try it. If you are going to add a cast time to shields maybe you should add a cast time to NB cloak ability as well.

Sebar80

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Good riddance, maybe sorcs will actually be killable now. A proper shield stacking sorc will never die, it will just run when it thinks it can't kill you fast.

If you had a problem killing sorcs now than its clearly L2P issue Whats your build? Broom and bucket?
Sorcs running away in the meta of swift jewellery and available for everyone gap close abilities, good joke man.
Sorry to break it for you but it won't get any better after sorcs are gutted. The only chance you have is to fight a potato player regardless of class.

hesobad

Where is the cast time for gap closers?

Where is the cast time for Resolving Vigor?

Where is the cast time for Roll dodge?

Where is the cast time for Minor Evasion buffs?

Where is the cast time for Stuns such as 120 ultimate Incap, Fears, fossilize, etc, etc.

RIP sorcs and other magic classes. Magic NBs might be the only thing left since they can still instant cloak and heal over time back up.

Derra

Ok actual feedback - as my other feedback was apparently not constructive enough:

The class is not in a playable state for pvp with the changes to shields. Having tested no shield and shield builds on pts.
It´s flatout unplayable and no further feedback can be given before the class is atleast back in a semi competetive state.

You can´t give feedback how a cars driving when you pull of the tires.
That´s what you´ve done to sorc.

You can´t expect feedback when you break something so bad it flatout doesn´t work anymore.
Or atleast you can´t deem it unconstructive when the only feedback you get after doing that is:
It doesn´t work.
Which is sadly all i can really say about it.

It´s not on the players to give feedback now. It´s on ZOS to accept that what they´ve done is such a monumental failure that they should get back to the drawing board - to create something that´s atleast worthy of feedback longer than: It doesn´t work.

Lord_Eomer

Sorc is class that helps lot of players in getting clear harder PVE contents but after the nerf train there is no hope.

anatole1234

Simple solution : Keep cast time on hardened ward and remove cast time on annulment.

BOOM!

You've just nerfed sorc's massive shield stack without gimping other light armor builds

Plodeoca

My real question is:
Who asked the cast time on shields?
I mean, nobody cares about mag sorcerer shieldstacking due isn’t a tactic to survive due to a sorcerer will finish resources and consequently die.

Talking about the pvp side you are going to literally kill the sorcerer class, nobody asked to remove the overload third bar due to it was giving sorcerers an unique way to play different from other classes.
Nobody asked to add a cast time to shields.

Really who plays real pvp in cyrodiil or even bg, knows what is really 1 second.

Now let’s imagine you are a sorcerer walking around in cyrodiil.
You hear the snipe incoming, you dodgeroll, it’s too late. (Changes to dodgeroll) The projectile hits you, the first thing you try to do is to dodgeroll again? I think the fastest way to counter it it’s just to shield. Oh wait.. i have to wait 1 second.. pff.. Select the keep where to resurrect

You are going to do somethinf really wrong with sorcerers, after rune cage nerf less people are playing sorcerers, with those changes people will directly left the game.

Just check how many people have deleted the subscription after the PTS patch notes release.

bardx86

anatole1234 wrote: »

Simple solution : Keep cast time on hardened ward and remove cast time on annulment.

BOOM!

You've just nerfed sorc's massive shield stack without gimping other light armor builds

You have it backwards, if you must go down this route. The class skill should be instant cast not the generally available skill. however a cast time on any defensive skill is just plain stupid.

snakebitten

The new Sorc shield durations do not seem to apply to pets. The shields seem to be using the old duration time for pets but are accurate for the player.

I've added to the bug report here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435657/

ZarkingFrued

You have destroyed sustain on stam sorc. 2.4k dark deal is a joke. Seriously? No overload bar? Why roll a stam sorc now? Hurricane? One not even Good skill is supposed to make us wanna stam pvp on this class? Why even use it? Mag sorc shields 1 sec cast time? How about no. Why do you feel the need to nerf an ability 3 or 4 times in one patch? I've played every day for years, and now I'm looking at other games if this goes live. I pvp stam and mag sorc, it's what keeps me playing, and this has destroyed that.. and this is literally the only game I play... not anymore

LiquidPony

Did some further testing from a PvE perspective on both stamsorc and magsorc today ...

Stamsorc seems to be in a pretty good place. Stam sustain in general is vastly improved. No direct buffs to stamsorcs in the patch notes but the Crushing Weapon change and the changes to DW glyphs are really nice. Bi-stat food may be an option again. Generally I think the stamsorc will be a bit more fun to play in PvE, although the DPS may not have gone up a whole lot.

Magsorc ... I'm not sure. Sustain does seem a bit better with the light armor buff. DPS still isn't great. I've convinced myself that there is some other change to pets incoming in a later PTS patch, because the pet changes don't make any sense in a vacuum. There are some interesting build possibilities right now, even incorporating Volatile Familiar into a typical light attack build.

The cast time on shields is dumb. I don't see any way around that. A lot of the other changes this patch are really nice, actually, but that change alone is ridiculous.

ZOS_Mika

We have removed a handful of non-constructive comments from this thread. Please ensure that the discussion remains civil and free of bashing. Thanks for your understanding.

antihero727

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have removed a handful of non-constructive comments from this thread. Please ensure that the discussion remains civil and free of bashing. Thanks for your understanding.

We have ZOS’s response to the issue!!!

maboleth

Relax people, there are SO many nice ideas and posts here, but Zos probably won't listen.


The fact is, the future sorc ideas are SO stupid and ignorant, it almost feels these guys never even play pvp. Not only bad, it's not fun! I play this game to have fun not to deal with frustration after frustration every 3 months. I have enough in RL, as we all do - leave it out of this game, for Tamriel's sake.

I'm on my holiday and my sub ran out. Planned to resub on my return, but no chance, not with these atrocities on live server.

eory-s_reb17_ESO

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have removed a handful of non-constructive comments from this thread. Please ensure that the discussion remains civil and free of bashing. Thanks for your understanding.

Make constructive changes - not like your last patch notes - so players also can be constructive! You really can't blame players for being disappointed, sad and angry right now...

Grollok76

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have removed a handful of non-constructive comments from this thread. Please ensure that the discussion remains civil and free of bashing. Thanks for your understanding.

Should read:

"We have removed a handful of non-sensible changes from the PTS."

THAT would ensure a (much more) civil discussion. Thanks for YOUR understanding (as if...).

Sub cancelled today.

Fudly_budly

Joy_Division wrote: »

That's not true at all.

NB: insta cloak, telport
Temps: Block + BOL
DKs: Wings, Block + Dragon blood
Wardens: Shimmering or mushrooms

I did vMA on my sorc last night on the PTS. I see what the devs were going for because it's possible to do the arena with the way shields are (mostly by using healing ward shield as the oh *** button), but there is zero reason to slot, let alone use, Conjured ward or harness in their current state.

While "solo" may work using Healing Ward, running in groups or "gangs (non-grouped allies)" does not as the Ward is given to someone other than the caster. This other player then gets the heal as well. Further the Healing ward is only about 60% of Conjured or Harness. I tested this today in a Public Dungeon and was killed. I haven't died in a pub dungeon since I can remember.

Tannus15

Tested some rotations last night on PTS.

Dark conversion is almost useful, but the cast time really kills it off.
using it every 2nd rotation, just after haunting curse, provides a nice amount of sustain throughout the fight, but the cast time makes it a bit too much of a dps loss to use.

Empowered ward is useless and horrible to use. Feels super clunky.

James-Wayne

Templars are laughing at Sorcs having a cry about a couple of skills with cast time... Please! Hahaha

ezio45