PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Jewelry Crafting

reoskit

The most frustrating thing about this, IMO, is despite the vast number of threads there have been discussing how ridiculous this grind is, there has been no response from ZOS. (Please do correct me if I'm wrong.)

We are not (all) entitled MMO crybabies who don't wanna put in the effort. I get that's a normal response with every update. Someone is going to be upset about something.

But look around, guys.

Have you ever seen the community so united in an opinion of a system's mechanics? And we're only at PTS... Just turn off the forums when this goes live.

Why even ask us for feedback? SMH.

/soapbox

eagles9595b16_ESO

Well done ZoS, you didn't want people to be able to do Gold jewelry items on day one.. major success !

Less than 2 weeks before Summerset hit live servers I have just cancelled my ESO plus membership that was running since 2014. I know that I'll pass on this new crafting system that is utterly ridiculous.

I understand with the new crafting system that the game is not aimed to players like me anymore.
Hence I don't see why I should continue to support your work and once my membership is over, I'll simply do like many others, which is play for free.

Gallagher563

They we're in a relatively easy position. Make the drop rate the same as say blacksmithing and it's a super defensible position. By doing what they did they annoyed most of their existing players and made jewelry crafting inaccessible to new players.

Donari

reoskit wrote: »

The most frustrating thing about this, IMO, is despite the vast number of threads there have been discussing how ridiculous this grind is, there has been no response from ZOS. (Please do correct me if I'm wrong.)

I don't know that it really deeply addressed the issue, but there was some response in the form of a patch note saying they'd upped the seam nodes, or something like that.

Elsterchen

Well, just my piece of thought to current patch.

The increase in node number is notable, ty. I can't say wether its enough or not, but one does find nodes now.

Adding to it, everyone who did not buy SI will be able to harvest nodes and sell raw material via guild trader. They will not be able to upgrade or refine material or jewellery. So, next to harvesting nodes and deconstructing jewellery created after launch of SI, guild traders are going to be a reliable source for raw materials.

Obviously its hard to judge wether all 3 sources will eventually be enough, PTS is just not as populated as live, nor can we find a dedicated trading community. Sure enough prices are going to be high at launch, too... just as the first crafted rings.

Nevertheless, imo there are still 2 things that may require some rethinking.
1) Tempers for improvement... the grain thingy is just very very unsexy, boring and grindy. Given that the basic material cost nicely reflect those of clothing, blacksmithing and woodworking with 100+ platings for level CP160 jewellery, the same IS expected for upgrading material.

If you fear inflation due to the Golden One and her stock, just keep the Goldens jewellery non-deconstructable and non tradeable (hence let this jewellery keep the Pre-SI Identifiers). Treat it the same way all jewellery from before summerset island gets treated at launch: transformation is possible, deconstruction isn't possible.

This way there is no inflation of deconstructed golden jewellery in the new crafting market, hence no reason to make the process of improving jewellery so grindy.
(Sorry whales, but its for the good of all)

2) I think you missed that the 1 day crafting scrolls from Rolis cost 3 voucher, not 10.

Gallagher563

It was good of them to up the node count but the same fundamental problem persists. This fundamental problem is that you need 10X the number of materials to create or update jewelry.

commdt

Damn I guess I'm the only one here absolutely fine with the new system. You say that the majority is against it as it is, but remember that the majority dont do endgame content, they just want everithing right now and without effort. And Im glad that not only I wont sell golden rings to a vendor but will make some profit from them. Dont worry though, craglorn trials are farmed so much prices will drop quickly

Darlon

commdt wrote: »

Damn I guess I'm the only one here absolutely fine with the new system. You say that the majority is against it as it is, but remember that the majority dont do endgame content, they just want everithing right now and without effort. And Im glad that not only I wont sell golden rings to a vendor but will make some profit from them. Dont worry though, craglorn trials are farmed so much prices will drop quickly

Don’t think you’ll be making profit anytime soon from golden rings... will be a while before you can craft any, since you need so many upgrade materials (20 green, 30 blue, 40, purple and 80 gold) before you can only make 1 ring...

Wayshuba

Vandellia wrote: »

Extremely Unhappy with the implementation of trait research. I might be able to understand only being able to research a single ring trait and a single necklace trait at a time but as it currently stands 1 trait only is flat out ugly. if you can not afford to spend deep /hard cash to "speed up" research times it, it will take a completely unreasonable and insane amount of time to get everything learned id estimate somewhere around 5 to 6 months for a intense crafter and far more for the typical player which is simply unaccceptable.

With ESO+ membership and maxed out passives to reduce research time it will take 212 days or 7 months.

Wayshuba

I haven't played on PTS, but there are discussions going on regarding jewelry crafting (and the Psijic Order skill line) that have reached outside of these forums (and they are very much unfavorable to ZoS).

But, I will put my feedback on optics of the new systems to someone still not sold on them (haven't purchased Summerset yet because they feedback of what is coming has been rather negative - not something you want from an expansion).

On Jewelry Crafting:

People that haven't played PTS are expecting something that mimics blacksmithing, woodworking and clothing. THERE IS NO REASONABLE EXPLANATION from a game design standpoint for the current system that is implemented and A LOT more people are going to be upset to see what they got with something THEY PAID FOR.

Things that need to be with jewelry crafting (but won't because it seems this is being designed to intentionally upset customers):

1.) Grains need to be gone and only plates should remain just like it is with the other three professions. There is no logical reason AT ALL, to have a ten times ratio on jewelry. You can argue that it is because there are only three pieces, but with woodworking you are rarely crafting more than two pieces for use on a character.

2.) The skill line that reduces research times should also allow researching two items at once. As it stands today, with maxed passives in jewelry and ESO+ membership, it will take 4.6 months to research the lines. With the skill fixed to match other professions, it will still take almost 2.5 months.

3.) There is no reason not to have a jewelry hireling at all. 5 out of 6 crafts we have today have a hireling, why was jewelry made an exception?

On the Psijic Skill Line:

1.) The grind to raise the levels is atrocious and BORING. Something really needs to be done about it.

For an "expansion" where two of the major selling features are receiving such negative feedback outside of the official forums, it is not doing ZoS any favors in selling people on buying the expansion. I purchased Morrowind right away when it became available and still have not purchased Summerset because I am wondering whether it is worth paying for something that is just going to be frustrating. Seems ZoS you are doing the wrong thing with both of these because neither of them is receiving positive feedback (maybe you should have Mr. Lambert spend some time on Reddit before committing yourselves permanently to your current course).

Edaphon

Wayshuba wrote: »

Vandellia wrote: »

Extremely Unhappy with the implementation of trait research. I might be able to understand only being able to research a single ring trait and a single necklace trait at a time but as it currently stands 1 trait only is flat out ugly. if you can not afford to spend deep /hard cash to "speed up" research times it, it will take a completely unreasonable and insane amount of time to get everything learned id estimate somewhere around 5 to 6 months for a intense crafter and far more for the typical player which is simply unaccceptable.

With ESO+ membership and maxed out passives to reduce research time it will take 212 days or 7 months.

No, it won't.
It will take 140 days, same as woodworking.

Asardes

IMO re-traiting is the only part of the system that is worth using in the current form. I will just proceed to level the skill on one character so I can access those passives, then simply research and change the traits on existing dropped jewelry. I will start with arcane, robust, infused for making jewelry from heavy armor sets viable for DPS and triune for making certain sets more beneficial to tank. The rest can just wait since I really don't find much of an usage.

Wayshuba

Edaphon wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Vandellia wrote: »

Extremely Unhappy with the implementation of trait research. I might be able to understand only being able to research a single ring trait and a single necklace trait at a time but as it currently stands 1 trait only is flat out ugly. if you can not afford to spend deep /hard cash to "speed up" research times it, it will take a completely unreasonable and insane amount of time to get everything learned id estimate somewhere around 5 to 6 months for a intense crafter and far more for the typical player which is simply unaccceptable.

With ESO+ membership and maxed out passives to reduce research time it will take 212 days or 7 months.

No, it won't.
It will take 140 days, same as woodworking.

K. My math was off. Still it is 140 days and that is NOT the same as Woodworking. Woodworking has six items with three that can be researched at once. So while the overall time is the same as woodworking, jewelry with only two items should be half that if it was keeping with the same skills in the other three comparable ones.

Still doesn't eliminate that we should have the capability to research multiple at once, have hirelings and grains (1/10 plates), should be removed completely.

drake88131

Well everyone try to keep a good attitude about it. It's something we didn't have before and TBH I can't remember zos ever Not making the pts go live. Just focus on the ones you want and expand. I know I'm going to get bloodthirsty ring and infused neck and ring researched first then transmute jewelry I already am wearing and be happy while I learn the rest but that's me! So long as my current gear still hits about he same dps it will be all good!

Gallagher563

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

Lord_Eomer

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

Darlon

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

This. Not to bothered that they want to keep gold more exclusive and make it more expensive... but even upgrading to blue, let alone purple, will be a grind...

Apherius

Edaphon wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Vandellia wrote: »

Extremely Unhappy with the implementation of trait research. I might be able to understand only being able to research a single ring trait and a single necklace trait at a time but as it currently stands 1 trait only is flat out ugly. if you can not afford to spend deep /hard cash to "speed up" research times it, it will take a completely unreasonable and insane amount of time to get everything learned id estimate somewhere around 5 to 6 months for a intense crafter and far more for the typical player which is simply unaccceptable.

With ESO+ membership and maxed out passives to reduce research time it will take 212 days or 7 months.

No, it won't.
It will take 140 days, same as woodworking.

so ... 70 days if i use a research scroll each day.

eagles9595b16_ESO

drake88131 wrote: »

Well everyone try to keep a good attitude about it. It's something we didn't have before and TBH I can't remember zos ever Not making the pts go live. Just focus on the ones you want and expand. I know I'm going to get bloodthirsty ring and infused neck and ring researched first then transmute jewelry I already am wearing and be happy while I learn the rest but that's me! So long as my current gear still hits about he same dps it will be all good!

I have the same complains toward ZoS and the fact that they LIED to all of us by not giving us all the information.

Some might say that they didn't lie, they announced a new craft system and that's what we have...
That's truth is that they knew from the beginning that it'll would take 6/8 months minimum for most of us to craft anything purple or gold. They knew that we would need 10 times more resources to upgrade any rings/necklace.

They decided to hide these information on purpose in order to have many players believe that the system would be just like the other craft system.
As they let us think about the new system rather than telling us such huge difference at all evel of this new craft system, for me they LIED to us.

That's why I cancelled my ESO+ membership.. I refuse to support them anymore until they change this new system to something more acceptable (btw I was a ESO+ since the beginning, so 4 years)

craigr02

I definitely am not happy with having to farm so many grains and raw material, especially how it is right now where you get about a 1 or 2 gold grains per stack. That is ridiculous. that will take about 14000 to 16000 raw materials to get enough grains to upgrade one piece of jewelry to gold. So almost 48000 to upgrade 3 pieces is ridoculous.
Next year I'll wait until patch notes before i commit to purchasing anything, and might change my order from collectors edition to regular upgrade.

commdt

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

Blue jewelry is from normal and purple is from vet, last boss. For many players the difference is huge, so it keeps the excitement

JasonSilverSpring

commdt wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

Blue jewelry is from normal and purple is from vet, last boss. For many players the difference is huge, so it keeps the excitement

Well not all purple jewelry comes from dungeons. Some comes from dolmens or treasure chests. But, even with that argument, why should it take so many mats to upgrade to green or blue?

commdt

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

Blue jewelry is from normal and purple is from vet, last boss. For many players the difference is huge, so it keeps the excitement

Well not all purple jewelry comes from dungeons. Some comes from dolmens or treasure chests. But, even with that argument, why should it take so many mats to upgrade to green or blue?

And so you have a choice:
1. Farm
2. Buy it cause it is dirt cheap anyway
3. Improve

Obviously N2 for me. I still buy golden jewelry from auction house/Golden vendor despite incoming update, and it is a good thing.

TequilaFire

commdt wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

Blue jewelry is from normal and purple is from vet, last boss. For many players the difference is huge, so it keeps the excitement

Well not all purple jewelry comes from dungeons. Some comes from dolmens or treasure chests. But, even with that argument, why should it take so many mats to upgrade to green or blue?

And so you have a choice:
1. Farm
2. Buy it cause it is dirt cheap anyway
3. Improve

Obviously N2 for me. I still buy golden jewelry from auction house/Golden vendor despite incoming update, and it is a good thing.

The problem is low level alts you are leveling, it is hard to find low level quality jewelry sets at vendors. I PvP so everything counts. So every 10 levels I am forced to farm to upgrade a low level's jewelry.
My solution was to have my crafter make jewelry sets for my lowbies.
Guess that is going to take a while now.

drake88131

commdt wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Gallagher563 wrote: »

The concern is not about dps or anything like that. The concern is that we are not getting what we expected when jewelry crafting was announced. If they had come out initially and said that you won't be able to craft anything for several months and it's going to take a year at least for the average player to upgrade anything to gold nobody would have bought the expansion. I pre-ordered because I thought it would function just like any other crafting skill and would be actually usable. Silly me.

If ZOS want to keep other ways more effective for getting gold jewelry then atleast should allow upgrade easily to purple rather then need 40 x purple mats.

Blue jewelry is from normal and purple is from vet, last boss. For many players the difference is huge, so it keeps the excitement

Oh crap! You're right! This means when I try to get into a random vet dungeon I will see more and more low levels looking for carries?! Ugh. Guess it's time to only do vet dungeons with giildies

reoskit

Quite apart from the whole upgrade mat fiasco...

To folks doing JC on PTS: how's the drop rate on the pulverized trait mats?

In the grind scheme of things (see what I did there?) it seams (omg, stop me) like the lesser of the evils in this new system.

Sorry for puns. I really do want an answer.

ghastley

reoskit wrote: »

Quite apart from the whole upgrade mat fiasco...

To folks doing JC on PTS: how's the drop rate on the pulverized trait mats?

In the grind scheme of things (see what I did there?) it seams (omg, stop me) like the lesser of the evils in this new system.

Sorry for puns. I really do want an answer.

I've noticed an apparent jump in the frequency of pewter seams since the last patch, and the pulverised traits presumably benefit from that increase (if I'm not imagining it). So even if the rate per node hasn't changed, the overall availability may have improved.

karekiz

I wouldn't mind Gold being grindy. Its comparison is a RNG vendor or running high end raid content. So crafting wise it should be difficult.

Green/Blue/Purple on the other hand should be cut down to base. Maybe a slight grind on purple, but nothing major.

BrightOblivion

eagles9595b16_ESO wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Well everyone try to keep a good attitude about it. It's something we didn't have before and TBH I can't remember zos ever Not making the pts go live. Just focus on the ones you want and expand. I know I'm going to get bloodthirsty ring and infused neck and ring researched first then transmute jewelry I already am wearing and be happy while I learn the rest but that's me! So long as my current gear still hits about he same dps it will be all good!

I have the same complains toward ZoS and the fact that they LIED to all of us by not giving us all the information.

Some might say that they didn't lie, they announced a new craft system and that's what we have...
That's truth is that they knew from the beginning that it'll would take 6/8 months minimum for most of us to craft anything purple or gold. They knew that we would need 10 times more resources to upgrade any rings/necklace.

They decided to hide these information on purpose in order to have many players believe that the system would be just like the other craft system.
As they let us think about the new system rather than telling us such huge difference at all evel of this new craft system, for me they LIED to us.

That's why I cancelled my ESO+ membership.. I refuse to support them anymore until they change this new system to something more acceptable (btw I was a ESO+ since the beginning, so 4 years)

While I'm truly disappointed with the 10x resource change, I'm going to have to be the bearer of bad news here. They most certainly did say what it would be like. In fact, that's one of the reasons I was so frustrated. On April 11, at least half a week before the PTS for this patch even started, they released this article: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/26357?Check-out-Jewelry-Crafting-With-this-Preview-&-Guide

Inside it, point blank, they say:

You can acquire upgrade materials by refining Dust (the Jewelry Crafting base material) into Ounces. When refining Dust, you have a chance to acquire Grains of the different upgrade materials. You must refine 10 Grains in order to acquire a Bar, and you can use Bars to upgrade your necklaces and rings at a Jewelry Crafting Station.

It's one of the main reasons I think they're set on this course and don't give a crap what we think. It's not gonna change.

Elsterchen

Edaphon wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Vandellia wrote: »

Extremely Unhappy with the implementation of trait research. I might be able to understand only being able to research a single ring trait and a single necklace trait at a time but as it currently stands 1 trait only is flat out ugly. if you can not afford to spend deep /hard cash to "speed up" research times it, it will take a completely unreasonable and insane amount of time to get everything learned id estimate somewhere around 5 to 6 months for a intense crafter and far more for the typical player which is simply unaccceptable.

With ESO+ membership and maxed out passives to reduce research time it will take 212 days or 7 months.

No, it won't.
It will take 140 days, same as woodworking.

Instead of reposting this pic that clearly shows data from a char with maxed research time modifier, please look at the real numbers i.e.: starting at level 1 with no option to put a skill point into advancing research time.

You may only add ONE skill point there after a few levels, a second skill point may be added a few levels later. ... After researching the correct level-up rates you may add the numbers.

Please keep in mind: the 21 is a monday (no golden vendor till saturday), existing jewellery is not deconstructable (which btw. is also true for jewellery in containers you may have stored up). I am pretty sure there will be one maybe 3 or even 10 people that will get help from guildmates/friends and get all new jewellery found on day one ... however I fear even for them its going to be a tough call to max out jewellery crafting on said day one. hence, there is no reason to assume the time analyzing traits starts with all skills maxed out already.