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Suspensions for Update 17 XP Exploit
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Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I would agree with this action if some special exploit (something like, say, Skyrim resto potion loop) had to be used to intentionally gain the extra XP, but when it happened merely by playing the game with no additional effort on the player's part then ZOS should take full 100% responsibility for the problem rather than blaming others for their screw up. I rarely even glance at my gold/xp/loot popup thingy and it's incredibly disturbing that I could be penalized for a developer mistake that I'm not even aware of while I'm farming tel var or whatever.
I'm the same. However, with each passing CP point you get quite a distinctive noise and a pop up across your screen telling you you've gained whatever type of CP point. I'm around the 810 mark and I'm lucky if I get anywhere near 2 of those notifications a-day. So getting one every minute or so would be a major giveaway that something wasn't right.
I highly doubt ZoS have suspended accounts who merely got a handful because I also don't believe only 200 and odd people fell foul of the massive xp gain. Huge difference between people gaining masses of XP points and those who saw how fast the xp gains were and left when they applied common sense.
Edited by Prof_Bawbag on February 20, 2018 10:27PM3 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
4 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm of the opinion that all cheaters should have a permanent mark/brand attached to all their characters. Something they can't hide behind a skin or costume. An aura or something. Resets don't bother these people as they'll just quickly regain all those skills again.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »I'm of the opinion that all cheaters should have a permanent mark/brand attached to all their characters. Something they can't hide behind a skin or costume. An aura or something. Resets don't bother these people as they'll just quickly regain all those skills again.
My high school English teacher might be rolling in her grave right now, yet I did not have to suffer through the "The Scarlet Letter" or "The Monsters are Due on Maple Street" in vain.
Blacklists and other forms of naming-and-shaming are a bad idea, and I applaud ZOS for being pretty good about not allowing them in the ESO community.4 -
splitsand✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I would agree with this action if some special exploit (something like, say, Skyrim resto potion loop) had to be used to intentionally gain the extra XP, but when it happened merely by playing the game with no additional effort on the player's part then ZOS should take full 100% responsibility for the problem rather than blaming others for their screw up. I rarely even glance at my gold/xp/loot popup thingy and it's incredibly disturbing that I could be penalized for a developer mistake that I'm not even aware of while I'm farming tel var or whatever.
I'm the same. However, with each passing CP point you get quite a distinctive noise and a pop up across your screen telling you you've gained whatever type of CP point. I'm around the 810 mark and I'm lucky if I get anywhere near 2 of those notifications a-day. So getting one every minute or so would be a major giveaway that something wasn't right.
I highly doubt ZoS have suspended accounts who merely got a handful because I also don't believe only 200 and odd people fell foul of the massive xp gain. Huge difference between people gaining masses of XP points and those who saw how fast the xp gains were and left when they applied common sense.
I gained around 10-15cp (I have 500) and I have a friend who got 4cp and we are both banned. He was down there for 15 minutes and I was down there for around an hour.
I also know someone who intentionally exploited quite a bit of xp and got no ban.
ZoS is not perfect, but I'm hoping they'll understand some people were not intentionally exploiting. I'd bet just checking to see what accounts had low level characters grinding and what accounts using xp pots would be a dead giveaway (I was doing neither).
1 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was honestlt expecting zos to let these players keep their hundreds of unusable cp. Either way, I'm glad to see something improve2 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭People take advantage of exploit created by game developer; players get suspended within hours.
People run bots for months on end exploiting the economy; players remain to this day performing the same exploit.
/ZoS logicEdited by Diminish on February 21, 2018 3:50AM6 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People take advantage of exploit created by game developer; players get suspended within hours.
People run bots for months on end exploiting the economy; players remain to this day performing the same exploit.
/ZoS logic
I'm guessing it's probably easier to detect the exploiters. Run a query to see who gained millions or billions of experience points in X amount of hours = proof that the exploit was used. Just like someone who speeds. But run a query to see who farmed a thousand crafting materials is not equal to proof of botting. Now, if character's movements were logged, one could run a query to see who repeats the same exact movement over and over again. But I doubt those logs exist. And even if they did, the botters could add some random moves, and it would be a battle between ZOS and the botters to out-script each other.3 -
Taylor_MB✭✭✭✭✭
✭People take advantage of exploit created by game developer; players get suspended within hours.
People run bots for months on end exploiting the economy; players remain to this day performing the same exploit.
/ZoS logic
I'm guessing it's probably easier to detect the exploiters. Run a query to see who gained millions or billions of experience points in X amount of hours = proof that the exploit was used. Just like someone who speeds. But run a query to see who farmed a thousand crafting materials is not equal to proof of botting. Now, if character's movements were logged, one could run a query to see who repeats the same exact movement over and over again. But I doubt those logs exist. And even if they did, the botters could add some random moves, and it would be a battle between ZOS and the botters to out-script each other.
Yeah, cause tracking 20 players all running the exact same route for hours on end is hard to track.PvP Defensive Set Comparison
Firestarter MagDK 1vX - build and gamplay!
LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar - build and gamplay!
ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank - build and gamplay!
Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
My YouTube Chanel2 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People take advantage of exploit created by game developer; players get suspended within hours.
People run bots for months on end exploiting the economy; players remain to this day performing the same exploit.
/ZoS logic
I'm guessing it's probably easier to detect the exploiters. Run a query to see who gained millions or billions of experience points in X amount of hours = proof that the exploit was used. Just like someone who speeds. But run a query to see who farmed a thousand crafting materials is not equal to proof of botting. Now, if character's movements were logged, one could run a query to see who repeats the same exact movement over and over again. But I doubt those logs exist. And even if they did, the botters could add some random moves, and it would be a battle between ZOS and the botters to out-script each other.
Yeah, cause tracking 20 players all running the exact same route for hours on end is hard to track.
How would they track the players? And how would they identify the players to track? Much more difficult than merely running a simple query on existing data.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I wasn't one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Edited by Emma_Overload on February 21, 2018 5:36AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
Because it wouldn't be brief. It would be perpetually occupying your screen space to your increasing annoyance due to the rate at which it is being spammed.
Additionally, gaining CP at all is a rare occurrence when your CP is already high, something you might see once a day at most. Having it literally occur every mob kill places it far beyond the ordinary commonplace doldrums you're accustomed to and into the unusual and therefore noteworthy realm of abnormality. Claim otherwise with ZOS directly but I those people you mentioned aren't obliged to accept such reasoning. I recommend paying attention in the future to peculiar game behavior that deviates from the usual rates your brain has been trained to accept as normal.Edited by LordSemaj on February 21, 2018 4:50AM1 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭People take advantage of exploit created by game developer; players get suspended within hours.
People run bots for months on end exploiting the economy; players remain to this day performing the same exploit.
/ZoS logic
I'm guessing it's probably easier to detect the exploiters. Run a query to see who gained millions or billions of experience points in X amount of hours = proof that the exploit was used. Just like someone who speeds. But run a query to see who farmed a thousand crafting materials is not equal to proof of botting. Now, if character's movements were logged, one could run a query to see who repeats the same exact movement over and over again. But I doubt those logs exist. And even if they did, the botters could add some random moves, and it would be a battle between ZOS and the botters to out-script each other.
Yeah, cause tracking 20 players all running the exact same route for hours on end is hard to track.
How would they track the players? And how would they identify the players to track? Much more difficult than merely running a simple query on existing data.
Simply logging in and visiting any one of the COUNTLESS locations the very people on this forum have reported bots at. If they used in-game reporting then they can log where the targeted character is standing. Its not rocket science; ZoS just dont give a **** unless they are using players as a scapegoat to obfuscate their development mishaps. Banning/Suspending ANYONE for this, innocent or not, leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. They messed up, not the players. Players didnt exploit anything. They didn't circumvent the game design. ZoS simply screwed up and now points their finger at players who noticed.2 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭So a bug that took away from (or in another perspective added to) the sales of crown xp items, is resulting in suspensions and bans and is worthy of ZoS announcing it.
Yet exploits and those still using a lot of known exploits, are in existence and still being abused are not banned nor fixed. If @zos wants to finally start taking a stand and announcing numbers of penalties being handed out, I am all for that. HOWEVER! They should not be so picky as to what they choose to announce a ban for and should be consistent in all forms of punishment and exploit fixes.
Not just ones that may or may not decrease the sales of certain items in the crown store.
Either way, good to see zos being more open. Here's hoping it continues and they actually start swinging the ban hammer more for exploits that are still being used.
Edit: spelling and thingsEdited by OGLezard on February 21, 2018 5:14AM0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »Ehh, idk about this one. Had it been 5m gold instead of xp, absolutely. But leveling characters affects no one but those doing so. In my opinion, this was a "ahh damn, fix the bug and move on" case. Sometimes things like this happen and when no achievements or collectibles/consumables are involved, I think it's best to just fix it and not let it happen again. It's nice to see Zos taking action, but I disagree with something that does not affect other players being a bannable offense.
That being said, if so many people are willing to exploit experience, maybe Zos should take a look at adding a character level token to the crown store.
I agree, I don't think they should be banned even temporarily. I think if you look at the bigger picture with the IC bug, the storage deletion bug, PC EU on patch day, the bugs in vSP that were never fixed I really don't think it's warranted. If the patch dropped and that was the only major bug then I'm in ZOS's corner and I 100% agree and think this is well done and well communicated, however, it's not. I think ZOS/the community as a whole should see it as an issue of product quality and maybe there should be an extra week between PTS and the launch to allow for more bug fixes. Hopefully that could squash most of the bugs before stuff like this happens on the live server.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »Ehh, idk about this one. Had it been 5m gold instead of xp, absolutely. But leveling characters affects no one but those doing so. In my opinion, this was a "ahh damn, fix the bug and move on" case. Sometimes things like this happen and when no achievements or collectibles/consumables are involved, I think it's best to just fix it and not let it happen again. It's nice to see Zos taking action, but I disagree with something that does not affect other players being a bannable offense.
That being said, if so many people are willing to exploit experience, maybe Zos should take a look at adding a character level token to the crown store.
I agree, I don't think they should be banned even temporarily. I think if you look at the bigger picture with the IC bug, the storage deletion bug, PC EU on patch day, the bugs in vSP that were never fixed I really don't think it's warranted. If the patch dropped and that was the only major bug then I'm in ZOS's corner and I 100% agree and think this is well done and well communicated, however, it's not. I think ZOS/the community as a whole should see it as an issue of product quality and maybe there should be an extra week between PTS and the launch to allow for more bug fixes. Hopefully that could squash most of the bugs before stuff like this happens on the live server.
Cheater say what?
Edited by Cpt_Teemo on February 21, 2018 5:39AM1 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.
I'll tell you. They looked at how long you were there, how much XP you earned AND your chat logs. You have been all over this thread, but what did you say to your group members while there earning XP.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.
I'll tell you. They looked at how long you were there, how much XP you earned AND your chat logs. You have been all over this thread, but what did you say to your group members while there earning XP.
I don't group much except during prime time evening hours when my guild is active. Usually I run solo and don't say much in zone chat. During the morning the patch came out, I was just running around looking for players, mobs and bosses to kill. I was probably in the City for at least two hours before I logged out.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.
I'll tell you. They looked at how long you were there, how much XP you earned AND your chat logs. You have been all over this thread, but what did you say to your group members while there earning XP.
I don't group much except during prime time evening hours when my guild is active. Usually I run solo and don't say much in zone chat. During the morning the patch came out, I was just running around looking for players, mobs and bosses to kill. I was probably in the City for at least two hours before I logged out.
After 2 hours (at least) you didn't notice the XP bug...Doubtful. Just stop already. You won't convince anyone here.
You say you don't group much, but avoid saying if you grouped that day or not. I've done some investigation work in my life, there are so many red flags in your posts, it's ridiculous.
6 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.
I'll tell you. They looked at how long you were there, how much XP you earned AND your chat logs. You have been all over this thread, but what did you say to your group members while there earning XP.
I don't group much except during prime time evening hours when my guild is active. Usually I run solo and don't say much in zone chat. During the morning the patch came out, I was just running around looking for players, mobs and bosses to kill. I was probably in the City for at least two hours before I logged out.
After 2 hours (at least) you didn't notice the XP bug...Doubtful. Just stop already. You won't convince anyone here.
You say you don't group much, but avoid saying if you grouped that day or not. I've done some investigation work in my life, there are so many red flags in your posts, it's ridiculous.
I can't say for sure whether I grouped at all that day, because it wasn't memorable enough to remember. What difference does it make anyway whether I was alone or with others? None of the players I'm friends with are exploiters, either.
You sound like you are unwilling to listen to reason or give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In any civilized country, the accused are considered innocent until proven guilty. Nobody can prove i intended to accumulate extra XP by exploiting a bug, therefore I should be considered innocent, and my suspension should be rescinded.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.
I'll tell you. They looked at how long you were there, how much XP you earned AND your chat logs. You have been all over this thread, but what did you say to your group members while there earning XP.
I don't group much except during prime time evening hours when my guild is active. Usually I run solo and don't say much in zone chat. During the morning the patch came out, I was just running around looking for players, mobs and bosses to kill. I was probably in the City for at least two hours before I logged out.
After 2 hours (at least) you didn't notice the XP bug...Doubtful. Just stop already. You won't convince anyone here.
You say you don't group much, but avoid saying if you grouped that day or not. I've done some investigation work in my life, there are so many red flags in your posts, it's ridiculous.
I can't say for sure whether I grouped at all that day, because it wasn't memorable enough to remember. What difference does it make anyway whether I was alone or with others? None of the players I'm friends with are exploiters, either.
You sound like you are unwilling to listen to reason or give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In any civilized country, the accused are considered innocent until proven guilty. Nobody can prove i intended to accumulate extra XP by exploiting a bug, therefore I should be considered innocent, and my suspension should be rescinded.Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Part of the purpose of these suspensions is to send a message to would-be exploiters and tell the community that exploitive behavior will not be tolerated. There will always be exploits given the updates to the game, but hopefully, this message reduces the number of future exploiters and makes all the non-exploiters feel a sense of fairness and justice.
I didn't "exploit" anything, but I still got suspended. Why would I feel "feel a sense of fairness and justice"? I don't have any black marks on my record, as far as I know, so I don't expect to be banned. Even so, this experience will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
The only people who were exploiting were the ones who went down to IC with the intention of racking up extra XP. I went down to the IC simply because that's where I always like to play, as numerous players have attested in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. People who claim that it's impossible that I didn't noticed the XP bug are wrong:
1) The XP notification is small and fades out. If you look at the forum thread where the bug was posted, there is a screenshot that shows that the notification didn't even say "1,900,000 XP" or "1.9 MILLION XP", it just said "1.9m XP". It's not that noticeable.
2) As I've said before, and others have said in this thread who didn't even get suspended, CP increases are not that noteworthy when you are already way past the cap. Why would my brain be trained to notice a brief alert to a "gain" that doesn't positively affect my character at all?
I won't dispute that were probably some players who were exploiting the bug intentionally, probably to quickly level lowbie toons. However, I was one of them, and it makes me really angry to see that I'm being lumped in with those people through no fault of my own.
Hmm...did you try contacting support? Or are they pretty much like "you met the threshold, and therefore you are presumed to have exploited, end of story"?
Yes, I sent a ticket yesterday and got a response today. The response was a form letter that only reiterated what was in their initial letter. They didn't ask me any questions or give me a chance to tell my side of the story.
The game logs tells your side. ZOS has access to those.
Yeah, but how do I know whether they will check to see that it's normal behavior for me to play in the City? Just looking at the logs on the day of the exploit doesn't tell the whole story.
I wish someone from ZOS like @ZOS_GinaBruno would chime in and tell us what their criteria are, what evidence they'll be looking at and whether we'll have a chance to respond to any accusations and present our side of the story to the investigators.
I'll tell you. They looked at how long you were there, how much XP you earned AND your chat logs. You have been all over this thread, but what did you say to your group members while there earning XP.
I don't group much except during prime time evening hours when my guild is active. Usually I run solo and don't say much in zone chat. During the morning the patch came out, I was just running around looking for players, mobs and bosses to kill. I was probably in the City for at least two hours before I logged out.
After 2 hours (at least) you didn't notice the XP bug...Doubtful. Just stop already. You won't convince anyone here.
You say you don't group much, but avoid saying if you grouped that day or not. I've done some investigation work in my life, there are so many red flags in your posts, it's ridiculous.
I can't say for sure whether I grouped at all that day, because it wasn't memorable enough to remember. What difference does it make anyway whether I was alone or with others? None of the players I'm friends with are exploiters, either.
You sound like you are unwilling to listen to reason or give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In any civilized country, the accused are considered innocent until proven guilty. Nobody can prove i intended to accumulate extra XP by exploiting a bug, therefore I should be considered innocent, and my suspension should be rescinded.
So launch day that changed many combat abilities and added more items to buy with TV stones wasn't memorable enough to remember. A day when the servers were off line for several hours, and then were taken down again after only four hours wasn't memorable enough to remember. My advice to you, never commit a crime in real life. You should also avoid playing cards.
4 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah this is the most important thing and a great change to see. With past exploits people have sadly kept some of the gains. The last few ZOS has acted on seems like they're getting better at stripping away gains as well.Ep1kMalware wrote: »I was honestlt expecting zos to let these players keep their hundreds of unusable cp. Either way, I'm glad to see something improve
You've already been found guilty though by the judge and jury (ZOS). You're now trying to appeal to the general public that you've been wrongly accused.Emma_Overload wrote: »You sound like you are unwilling to listen to reason or give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In any civilized country, the accused are considered innocent until proven guilty. Nobody can prove i intended to accumulate extra XP by exploiting a bug, therefore I should be considered innocent, and my suspension should be rescinded.
If you're not happy you need to speak to the only people who can help you, ZOS. It doesn't matter if we believe you innocent or not because we can't do anything for you.
As I and others have said in this thread everyone will take what you say with a pinch of salt because it's the same in every game that a ban/suspension wave is given. There will be a number of people who claimed they were wrongly targeted, some may be true, others may be lies but other than the player and the company no one else can see the evidence to make an informed choice.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."6 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since this thread seems to really have legs and also to have strayed a bit, I'd just like to say...
Regardless of how I or anyone feels about the actions taken, @ZOS_GinaBruno and ZOS in general earned a good bit of respect for taking the time to be more upfront about this. Would love to see more communication and transparency along these lines in the future.
Kudos
5 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nobody can prove i intended to accumulate extra XP by exploiting a bug, therefore I should be considered innocent, and my suspension should be rescinded.
You’re not facing a capital sentence. Yes, in dubio pro reo is a established concept in most modern states that are law based, but it holds no significance in a contractual environment. For the purposes of the contract the only measure is what has been negotiated between the parties. And you agreed to acknowledge the power of ZOS to decide at their discretion when you signed the ToS (that the ToS probably wouldn’t hold in front of a European Court is entirely another matter).
Besides, your logic is flawed. Nobody could ever prove intent. It’s why penal law is often satisfied with the assessment a person did nothing to alleviate the risk of an action. Can’t look into the mind of someone yet luckily. If intent was the sole measure everyone would always be innocent.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Anyone seen the latest Alcast achievement videos he uploaded today or yesterday? He´s been playing with a guy/gal with 1831 CP. I don´t say this person cheated, but 1831 ....0
This discussion has been closed.