Suspensions for Update 17 XP Exploit

LordSemaj

For starters, contrary to what others may believe, I sympathize with your plight and predicament as you were engaging in something you were either new to experiencing or unsure of how to properly handle. I hope this experience serves you well in ESO and future games you play. You will now know how to handle this kind of scenario should it ever come up again.

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

About 15 to 20 mins in I finally realize that the xp is too high. I say in chat to my friend. Hey do you notice xp is not right or is it just me? We get sidetracked with some more blues or reds. We then get back to killing bosses and I realize xp is still weird.

You noticed something peculiar but continued anyway without granting it much consideration. Perfectly normal if this is your first time being in these circumstances and you won't be too severely affected by it, you're merely experiencing the system shock that comes along with your first offense. A lot of questions, not enough answers, and confusion by the sound of it.

But now that you have experience with issues like this, it will serve as a constant reminder that if you notice anything unusual about the rewards in any game you play that you should take the matter seriously. Because that is what I believe your account and others like it address - that the matter wasn't thought to be serious and so not given proper attention.

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

Then I notice my champion points and say in guild chat... ok there is for sure something broke here and it must be happening only in the city. (my chat log will clearly show this). I then proceed to kill a few more mobs and note the xp in a test. Yep xp is clearly broke so I then take the time to submit the bug to eso. Ok ticket has been submitted and jokingly I put in the ticket this isn't one of those cases where you respond "Working as intended" to be funny. I'm guessing I was the first or only person to submit one since it was right after the server was up. Knowing eso would simply fix the error and roll back my xp I killed a few more mobs not thinking much more into this as I am cp 900+ and gain nothing from xp.

Realizing that there was something wrong, taking the correct course of action, and then continuing to do it even more is perhaps not the ideal method of handling the situation.

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

After awhile someone said you probably better leave or you could get in trouble. Not really sure how I would get in trouble for a error on eso's part I got scared and left anyway.

Wise advice given and received and good on you for adhering to it! This exemplifies that you were simply unfamiliar with how these matters play out but make no mistake they get taken very seriously and the person who warned you likely knew that.

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

You have to understand xp means nothing to me. I don't count it or care about it and never have unless I was leveling a new toon. I was there to play and have fun. Nothing more and no ill intentions. I did not log to a lowbie toon and level him, I did not hear about the bug and go to the city to grind levels. I did nothing wrong and just assumed eso would fix my cp and the day goes on. Gaining CP does nothing for a max toon so how is that called a exploit? I would always stay ahead of cap regardless. My skills are cap as well for those who want to cry about that too. the definition of a exploit is: make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource). XP for a person above 720 currently does NOTHING unless skills was leveled at that time.

Unfortunately, to keep in accordance with fairness, the why matters less than the how. This is especially true when automated means are used that cannot differentiate between players who are intentionally exploiting and those who are simply oblivious. It's too fine a line, too easy to argue one side of the other, and so a firm hand has to be shown that tolerates none of it. In your particular case, I'm sure the fact that you confessed awareness of it twice and continued anyway did not help the matter.

Lucifers_Pain wrote: »

Call me crazy but how is this any different from running a dungeon and bypassing mobs and bosses by jumping walls and swimming in lava to get around parts of the dungeon so that you can get your weapon or helm that your farming or get the dungeon done faster. By all rights that's the same kind of exploiting is it not? And don't tell me nobody has ever done that because every person who has farmed a dungeon has exploited in some way. There is no way to argue this... its the same kind of exploit that you don't even consider a exploit. Some people did go to the city to farm xp. I did NOT go to the city to farm xp but I am still paying the same price for being there doing what I do every single day even though im the one that submitted a ticket.

How does eso allow people for 2 years to grind out levels using bot trains but I had to work for mine?
How does eso allow farming node toons to gather material and sell on the market when I had to work for it?
How does eso allow dungeon farmers to bypass mobs and bosses by jumping walls and swimming through lava?

Its not fair at all. I loved this game and probably have over 2000 hours and lots of money invested but this has left me feeling a bit salty when I had NO ill intentions but still got disciplined.

Nasaman

I've seen people get banned for all of those things in MMOs before, skipping content in instances even saw people warned in ESO, it's always funny when a GM shows up in the middle of your dungeon clearly watching you glitch past the walls and then resets the entire dungeon to make you do it all over again. The player even posted his video of it to youtube but god knows how to find it now. It's a matter of whether the developer both can and will enforce the rules on the matter. Or sometimes whether they have the tools to track it without hiring a GM to personally shadow people. The rules were violated, that is abundantly clear, but they are not always enforced which leads players to believe in this false sense of security and subsequent extreme shock when it happens to them.

Cpt_Teemo

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

I agree but it’s always ZOS pointing the ban hammer at people for ZOS’s seriously bugged game. I am tired of this company acting like we are the issue when their QA department is the real reasons we have these issues. IT’S YOUR FAULT ZOS. These people weren’t using 3rd party software. These people weren’t doing anything but grinding for stones for crates as they should have been. Please stop being acuasatory and start being sorry.

Yes, absolutely. This was 100% ZOS' fault. I'd support the bans IF some sort of special effort went into activating the bug, but when the bug was caused merely by playing the game, there is absolutely ZERO blame on the player. Playing the game as you normally would is not an intentional exploit. You paid for Imperial City and you should be able to play the content you paid for normally without suffering a ban because of a bug you have no control over, made no effort to activate, and may not even be aware of. The anti-exploit provisions should only apply if there is intentional action to activate or use an exploit, and I strongly suspect that ZOS is running afoul of consumer protection laws by their unjustified actions here.

The ToS you signed states that you are to blame not ZoS for taking advantages of bugs.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ydrisselle wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I am well aware that "guilty" people will claim their "innocence" along with the true innocents.
That's no reason to declare everyone guilty.
The only correct stance for any of us is to say "sorry, I cannot know what's true and what's not".

I'm quite sure that more than 276 players were active in IC during the time this exploit was in effect, so not even ZOS declared everybody guilty - only those who they found guilty by their own inner standard. We can discuss if that standard is fair or not, however I doubt they will change it.

Yes I agree.
I was referring to the people in this thread who tend to assume that everyone pleading for their innocence was actually guilty.

Gnortranermara

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

The ToS you signed states that you are to blame not ZoS for taking advantages of bugs.

For actively taking advantage of bugs, sure, but not for playing the game normally and making no effort to take advantage of anything. In law there's a concept called mens rea (guilty mind) that is required for an action to be considered violative. Simply playing the game you paid for the same way you normally would does not satisfy mens rea. There would have to be a positive indication that the person intentionally went out of their way to exploit the bug, not that they were simply enjoying the product they paid for and a bug happened to occur that benefited them.

VaranisArano

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

The ToS you signed states that you are to blame not ZoS for taking advantages of bugs.

For actively taking advantage of bugs, sure, but not for playing the game normally and making no effort to take advantage of anything. In law there's a concept called mens rea (guilty mind) that is required for an action to be considered violative. Simply playing the game you paid for the same way you normally would does not satisfy mens rea. There would have to be a positive indication that the person intentionally went out of their way to exploit the bug, not that they were simply enjoying the product they paid for and a bug happened to occur that benefited them.

How exactly is it playing the game normally when you are receiving bugged exp far out of the norm just for playing?

jordanmarx_ESO

Playing the game as you normally would but also gaining bugged exp that's clearly out of the normal for the game as you play the game is NOT an exploit. Wait, what? (Hint: its not playing the game normally when you are getting bugged exp for playing)

No, we didn't have to do anything special to get the bugged exp. So what? The TOS and the COC we all agree to still expect us to stop what's causing the bug and report it.

[/quote]

The TOS that we typically agree to as consumers are usually quite robust you are right. But The entire DLC of Imperial City was unavoidably bugged for certain players. For myself, and several of the other IC grinders on here, we could not play the content we paid for without experiencing the bug.

There are no terms of service docs robust enough to justify this.

This also implies that we knew that the bug would 1. Continue throughout our playtime in IC. 2. And that it wouldn't go away if we switched zones within IC itself. 3. And that we knew exactly what was causing it, the killing of mobs. All of these are false assumptions that are easy to make after the fact but hard to assume when you are there in the moment.

Cpt_Teemo

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

The ToS you signed states that you are to blame not ZoS for taking advantages of bugs.

For actively taking advantage of bugs, sure, but not for playing the game normally and making no effort to take advantage of anything. In law there's a concept called mens rea (guilty mind) that is required for an action to be considered violative. Simply playing the game you paid for the same way you normally would does not satisfy mens rea. There would have to be a positive indication that the person intentionally went out of their way to exploit the bug, not that they were simply enjoying the product they paid for and a bug happened to occur that benefited them.

You aren't simply playing the original game, the original game does not let you obtain that much xp per kill, even with enlightened it would have only been 1.4k xp or so not 1.9m xp

Cpt_Teemo

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

Playing the game as you normally would but also gaining bugged exp that's clearly out of the normal for the game as you play the game is NOT an exploit. Wait, what? (Hint: its not playing the game normally when you are getting bugged exp for playing)

No, we didn't have to do anything special to get the bugged exp. So what? The TOS and the COC we all agree to still expect us to stop what's causing the bug and report it.

The TOS that we typically agree to as consumers are usually quite robust you are right. But The entire DLC of Imperial City was unavoidably bugged for certain players. For myself, and several of the other IC grinders on here, we could not play the content we paid for without experiencing the bug.

There are no terms of service docs robust enough to justify this.

This also implies that we knew that the bug would 1. Continue throughout our playtime in IC. 2. And that it wouldn't go away if we switched zones within IC itself. 3. And that we knew exactly what was causing it, the killing of mobs. All of these are false assumptions that are easy to make after the fact but hard to assume when you are there in the moment.

You could have just avoided where the bug was taking place for a few hours till they fixed it

sentientomega

Three lessons from this:
1. Exploiters and potential exploiters, don't do it.
2. To the unwary, if in doubt, don't. I'm afraid it seems that the game seems to be in such a broken state at times that being afraid of your own shadow really is the only safe way to cope.
3. Zenimax, please fix your bugged content, especially the content so vulnerable to rampant exploitation. Doing something ingame that's just part of playing the game should *not* be producing a result that causes great masses of people to be suspended or banned, if only when it comes to players making genuine mistakes.

Thanks to bugs like this, how can anyone expect to be able to reasonably play the game without failing themselves for fear over the fact that any remotely innocuous thing they do will come back to burn them?

Players would look a great deal more kindly on the devs for going out of their way to make the gaming environment manifestly tolerable and even enjoyable for ordinary players, by eliminating, or at the very least, minimising the possibilities of running into bugs that would be considered exploits, regardless of actual guilt or innocence.

LordSemaj

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

The ToS you signed states that you are to blame not ZoS for taking advantages of bugs.

For actively taking advantage of bugs, sure, but not for playing the game normally and making no effort to take advantage of anything. In law there's a concept called mens rea (guilty mind) that is required for an action to be considered violative. Simply playing the game you paid for the same way you normally would does not satisfy mens rea. There would have to be a positive indication that the person intentionally went out of their way to exploit the bug, not that they were simply enjoying the product they paid for and a bug happened to occur that benefited them.

In law there is also something called motive which is the prosecutor's reasoning for why a person would commit the offense, whether you intended to or not doesn't matter as long as the court sees there being a plausible reason. Judgements are rendered against the actions took rather than the person's reason for taking them as with all the liars that make their way to the stand it's the only way that anyone would ever be convicted. It's also up to the judge to determine whether these reasons or states of mind are sufficient or not and in this example ZOS is the judge of that.

We keep arriving back at the same conclusion -- that all pleas must be put forth to ZOS and they will decide whether the evidence and the testimony are plausible or whether to apply a firm hand to use an example. That too is something that happens in modern life and heaven help the person who gets caught in a judge's crosshairs around their retention vote.

We can't even discuss whether the measures ZOS used are fair or not, just or not, convincing or not because we literally know nothing pertinent.

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

But The entire DLC of Imperial City was unavoidably bugged for certain players.

This too is an example of a misconception players have, that "unavoidable" somehow means you're still allowed to play the content. The bug is avoidable by not playing Imperial City at all. That may sound unfair for content you paid for but that is the reality. Don't play bugged content.

Gnortranermara

VaranisArano wrote: »

How exactly is it playing the game normally when you are receiving bugged exp far out of the norm just for playing?

Maybe you don't understand what words like "normal" mean. Is English your second language? "Playing the game normally" means that the player's actions were normal. The XP gains behind the scenes may have been abnormal, but that was not a player action for which they have any responsibility. They were simply playing and killing mobs (for drops, tel var, etc) like they'd normally do. They didn't drink a resto potion loop or charge through an invisible wall to find high-xp mobs living outside the map or craft broken 10000% XP training gear or take any other special additional action to make the bug occur. They were just playing normally, and the abnormal XP gains were not caused by any intentional exploit. They performed no additional exploitative act, but simply used the product they paid for and have a right to enjoy under consumer protection law.

VaranisArano

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

The TOS that we typically agree to as consumers are usually quite robust you are right. But The entire DLC of Imperial City was unavoidably bugged for certain players. For myself, and several of the other IC grinders on here, we could not play the content we paid for without experiencing the bug.

There are no terms of service docs robust enough to justify this.

This also implies that we knew that the bug would 1. Continue throughout our playtime in IC. 2. And that it wouldn't go away if we switched zones within IC itself. 3. And that we knew exactly what was causing it, the killing of mobs. All of these are false assumptions that are easy to make after the fact but hard to assume when you are there in the moment.

I'm not sure how the TOS aren't robust enough to cover "hey, I was playing the game and found a bug that I can't avoid while just playing the game! What should I do?"

The TOS:
8. RULES OF CONDUCT
"You agree not to use any Service to: ...Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"

Seems pretty robust to me.

As for the rest of it, I'm sympathetic to your confusion as to the nature of the bug (although, personally, I don't think that killing mobs = exp is a hard conclusion to jump to), but I also think its fairly obvious that continuing to do actions that are gaining you bugged exp may not be the wisest course of action when you are expected to report such things and stop doing them.

LordSemaj

sentientomega wrote: »

Thanks to bugs like this, how can anyone expect to be able to reasonably play the game without failing themselves for fear over the fact that any remotely innocuous thing they do will come back to burn them?

Perhaps by not falling prey to the idea perpetuated that these were arbitrary suspensions?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

During our investigation, we took into account that some players may not have immediately noticed the bug, and it was possible they were not intentionally exploiting. The suspended accounts were those that undoubtedly took advantage of the situation.

I mean they do own the game and the TOS even describes the DLC we "own" as being rented from them and not ours by right. These are the terms agreed upon and anyone who objects to them is free to not play their product. Their stance, while possibly viewed as harsh, is clear as day and not up for discussion. These warnings apply to all players, not just the 276 suspended, and I would advise everyone to take them seriously.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As a reminder to everyone, the ZeniMax Terms of Services states that you will not exploit any bug or abuse any game system, and are expected to report any discovered exploit to us. Abusing a bug will put your account at risk for a suspension or permanent ban from ESO.

Cpt_Teemo

VaranisArano wrote: »

jordanmarx_ESO wrote: »

The TOS that we typically agree to as consumers are usually quite robust you are right. But The entire DLC of Imperial City was unavoidably bugged for certain players. For myself, and several of the other IC grinders on here, we could not play the content we paid for without experiencing the bug.

There are no terms of service docs robust enough to justify this.

This also implies that we knew that the bug would 1. Continue throughout our playtime in IC. 2. And that it wouldn't go away if we switched zones within IC itself. 3. And that we knew exactly what was causing it, the killing of mobs. All of these are false assumptions that are easy to make after the fact but hard to assume when you are there in the moment.

I'm not sure how the TOS aren't robust enough to cover "hey, I was playing the game and found a bug that I can't avoid while just playing the game! What should I do?"

The TOS:
8. RULES OF CONDUCT
"You agree not to use any Service to: ...Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"

Seems pretty robust to me.

As for the rest of it, I'm sympathetic to your confusion as to the nature of the bug (although, personally, I don't think that killing mobs = exp is a hard conclusion to jump to), but I also think its fairly obvious that continuing to do actions that are gaining you bugged exp may not be the wisest course of action when you are expected to report such things and stop doing them.

Easy, just avoid area if people talk about it and move onto something else for the time being don't just go ahead and do what they're doing just because you can, it'll just bite you in the ass later.

Ydrisselle

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I am well aware that "guilty" people will claim their "innocence" along with the true innocents.
That's no reason to declare everyone guilty.
The only correct stance for any of us is to say "sorry, I cannot know what's true and what's not".

I'm quite sure that more than 276 players were active in IC during the time this exploit was in effect, so not even ZOS declared everybody guilty - only those who they found guilty by their own inner standard. We can discuss if that standard is fair or not, however I doubt they will change it.

Yes I agree.
I was referring to the people in this thread who tend to assume that everyone pleading for their innocence was actually guilty.

ZOS already found them guilty, since they got the suspension. It may be discussed if they made mistakes during their inspection - however that should be done in private between the suspended player and ZOS.

VaranisArano

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

How exactly is it playing the game normally when you are receiving bugged exp far out of the norm just for playing?

Maybe you don't understand what words like "normal" mean. Is English your second language? "Playing the game normally" means that the player's actions were normal. The XP gains behind the scenes may have been abnormal, but that was not a player action for which they have any responsibility. They were simply playing and killing mobs (for drops, tel var, etc) like they'd normally do. They didn't drink a resto potion loop or charge through an invisible wall to find high-xp mobs living outside the map or craft broken 10000% XP training gear or take any other special additional action to make the bug occur. They were just playing normally, and the abnormal XP gains were not caused by any intentional exploit. They performed no additional exploitative act, but simply used the product they paid for and have a right to enjoy under consumer protection law.

Oooh, its the definition game with a side of insulting other people's languages! I've never played that game before! What are the rules? How do you win?

See, it doesn't actually matter. Once you know there's a bug, the TOS and COC are pretty clear that you need to report the bug and stop exploiting it.

That's why so many people are trying to argue innocence based on things like "I don't pay attention to exp gain" or "I had addons, so I didn't see it." Because once you see the bugged exp, you've got a responsibility to report and stop exploiting. You can't "play the game normally" once you know that by "playing the game normally" you are receiving a abnormal benefit.

Take a look at the Code of Conduct:
5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

You seem to be arguing that because players didn't take any extra step to "intentionally" cause the exploit but were instead playing the game "normally" in exactly the same way they would without the glitch, that they are absolved of their responsibility to report and stop exploiting. If I've misunderstood your argument, let me know (and let's not play childish language games while we're at it, m'kay?)

I'm arguing that once a player noticed the bugged exp, its impossible to avoid their responsibility to report and stop exploiting, and thus that continuing to play (even playing normally with no extra actions than they usually would) after they noticed is inevitably exploiting. And that's ,again, why so many people are trying to argue (rightfully or wrongly) that they didn't notice. Because if they noticed and didn't stop, the TOS and COC are pretty clear about what they should have done.

jordanmarx_ESO

As for the rest of it, I'm sympathetic to your confusion as to the nature of the bug (although, personally, I don't think that killing mobs = exp is a hard conclusion to jump to), but I also think its fairly obvious that continuing to do actions that are gaining you bugged exp may not be the wisest course of action when you are expected to report such things and stop doing them.[/quote]

took me about 15 minutes to come to the conclusion that I needed to get out of the entire IC and go play pve or Cyro or something. I think that's probably a typical response the average person would have to the situation I was in personally.

jordanmarx_ESO

I'm not sure how the TOS aren't robust enough to cover "hey, I was playing the game and found a bug that I can't avoid while just playing the game! What should I do?"

The TOS:
8. RULES OF CONDUCT
"You agree not to use any Service to: ...Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;"

I still feel like upon discovery of the bug, taking 15 minutes to take stock of the situation to understand what was going on, then reporting the bug and leaving the zone is not violating TOS.

LordSemaj

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

They were simply playing and killing mobs (for drops, tel var, etc) like they'd normally do.

And I accidentally walked a stuffed bear filled with 2 kilos of narcotics through airport security. I swear I have no idea how drugs magically ended up inside my possessions.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

They were simply playing and killing mobs (for drops, tel var, etc) like they'd normally do.

Many exploits happen by "playing normally". Item duplication, repeatable quest turn ins, zone crashes in PVP, the recent queue lock bug that happened if a player was offline in your group, deconstructing items with abnormally high material rewards, kiting bosses around a rock and then having them become stuck on it and unable to attack, dealing absurdly high damage by simply wearing the Salvation set, refilling your stamina to full instantly by crouching and blocking quickly, there are all kinds of circumstances where players play the game "normally" and it has unintended results. It's the player's responsibility to stop repeating those actions, using those items, or drinking those potions until the bug is fixed.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

They performed no additional exploitative act, but simply used the product they paid for and have a right to enjoy under consumer protection law.

You do not own anything from this product that you paid for. Per the contract you agreed to, you are renting the game servers, the world, the DLC, all of it. Your characters are the property of Zenimax. Your account is the property of Zenimax. At any point in time, Zenimax can shutdown or remove your access with no compensation due. If you feel differently, feel free to try suing them over it. Oh wait, the contract also says you're not allowed to do that either. Nevermind the fact that most lawsuits pertain to ENFORCING the contract when one party in breach of it, and in these circumstances the player is who is in breach.

antihero727

LordSemaj wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

They were simply playing and killing mobs (for drops, tel var, etc) like they'd normally do.

And I accidentally walked a stuffed bear filled with 2 kilos of narcotics through airport security. I swear I have no idea how drugs magically ended up inside my possessions.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

They were simply playing and killing mobs (for drops, tel var, etc) like they'd normally do.

Many exploits happen by "playing normally". Item duplication, repeatable quest turn ins, zone crashes in PVP, the recent queue lock bug that happened if a player was offline in your group, deconstructing items with abnormally high material rewards, kiting bosses around a rock and then having them become stuck on it and unable to attack, dealing absurdly high damage by simply wearing the Salvation set, refilling your stamina to full instantly by crouching and blocking quickly, there are all kinds of circumstances where players play the game "normally" and it has unintended results. It's the player's responsibility to stop repeating those actions, using those items, or drinking those potions until the bug is fixed.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

They performed no additional exploitative act, but simply used the product they paid for and have a right to enjoy under consumer protection law.

You do not own anything from this product that you paid for. Per the contract you agreed to, you are renting the game servers, the world, the DLC, all of it. Your characters are the property of Zenimax. Your account is the property of Zenimax. At any point in time, Zenimax can shutdown or remove your access with no compensation due. If you feel differently, feel free to try suing them over it. Oh wait, the contract also says you're not allowed to do that either. Nevermind the fact that most lawsuits pertain to ENFORCING the contract when one party in breach of it, and in these circumstances the player is who is in breach.

The player is always in breach in this buggy mess. The TOS is a prime example of a company giving a bad product and hiding their inability to fix their stuff behind paper and lawyers. When they apologize for the shotty craftsmanship I will be ready to listen and move on.

ZOS_Mika

Since this thread has run its course we have decided to close it down. We appreciate that this topic is of interest to the community, but this thread has begun to repeat itself and become a bit combative.

As we close this thread, we would like to remind you that discussion of specific, disciplinary action on an individual level is against the forum rules. If you have a concern about a disciplinary action that has been taken on your account, you should respond to the email that our team has sent to you regarding that specific action. Thank you for your understanding.