Sotha Sil NAPC Part VII

StaticWave

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I and my friend Jaisins 2v8 a dc group today, one of the few things large scalers won’t be able to do

Unless you know the skill levels/experience/gear/circumstances of the players involved that kind of statement is meaningless. i.e. A few weeks back, I along with another DC player wiped a 12 man EP group. We both prefer large scale PVP, so does that make us just as good as skilled small scalers and your statement wrong? Or is my statement meaningless and indicative of nothing without further information about the players we were up against?

...

Both sides are trying to compare apple and oranges here. Each style of PVP has it's own unique skills that are intrinsic to that style of play. So trying to claim one is superior than the other is pointless. It's like trying to argue who is the superior athlete: The 100m runner, the middle distance runner or the long distance runner. They all involve running, they all compete in the same stadium, and you can make a case for all of them being superior. But the argument is just as pointless because at the end of the day they are all different disciplines, that require similar but different skill sets in order to excel.

The notion that a player can't be good at (or enjoy) more than one style of PVP is equally as nonsensical. Why not? What exactly is stopping someone who is good at large scale PVP also being good at small scale or solo PVP (or vice versa)? If anything the non-cp campaign encourages players to try out and (hopefully) become good at more than one discipline, because it is so easy to go from a build set up for large scale play to a build set up for small scale or solo play. In many cases you literally only have to change gear sets and swap some skills, rather than have to respec anything.

This.

StaticWave wrote: »

my friend @jaysins and I had a successful 2v8 vs a DC group today, one of the few things large scalers won’t be able to do

You keep talking about ratio's but then not applying them. Here for example, yes, large scale raids often fight and win 12 v 48. And again, you saying loosing one guy in 12 man is less than loosing 1 guy in a 4 man. Yes that statement is correct, but your ratio is not, loosing 1 guy in a 4 man is equivalent to loosing 3 people in a 12 man, see what I am saying? And seeing how the number of enemies you fight in large groups scales in the same way, yes, it's equally as detrimental to loose those members.

Like I said, I don't think anyone here is trying to quash small scale, simply offer equal legitimacy to both sides of the conversation. I came in here, saw large group getting nothing but bashed and wanted to offer my thoughts, I'm not here to say small scale is bad, I am here to make the same point @esotoon did.

You can't fight a 48 man group without cp. It's just not possible.

You haven't played largescale pvp it's clear. No CP is easier than CP in that style check ZS videos if you don't believe it. We regularly play no CP eu. Where there is actual population and guilds to fight not just fresh recruits ready to be 1vx'd
Siege is the only difficulty on no CP but that's mitigated by build and setup

If you run a zerg of your own yea

StaticWave

Adenoma wrote: »

@StaticWave , you could make 4 friends and then try to fight drac,

Why does my guild have to find 4 new players that we have not played regularly with or tested their compatibility just to GvG with Drac? If Drac can’t fight a GvG with less than 12 members, then it seems like a confidence issues to me. OR, my guild can fight them 8v12, if that’s what they want. But remember though, that will put the pressure on them to win, because they will have 4 more players than us. Losing a 12v8 won’t look nice on their end.

StaticWave

Skip to the last clip to see how getting outplayed by zergs look like

https://youtu.be/XN9WFP2M5YI

Adenoma

@StaticWave , why don't you want to beat Drac at their best? That would prove your hypothesis. If you fight 8v8 and outside of their normal comp you really haven't proved anything in this small vs large group debate. I don't get why this is a complicated point or why it is so hard to reach out to four more friends that are competent.

DeadlyRecluse

How 'bout 10v10 and everyone stop making excuses. The power of compromise!

Adenoma

Look, I just want to egg folks on.

StaticWave

Adenoma wrote: »

@StaticWave , why don't you want to beat Drac at their best? That would prove your hypothesis. If you fight 8v8 and outside of their normal comp you really haven't proved anything in this small vs large group debate. I don't get why this is a complicated point or why it is so hard to reach out to four more friends that are competent.

Ok. I guess it means we’re doing an 8v12

usmcjdking

StaticWave wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@StaticWave , you could make 4 friends and then try to fight drac,

Why does my guild have to find 4 new players that we have not played regularly with or tested their compatibility just to GvG with Drac? If Drac can’t fight a GvG with less than 12 members, then it seems like a confidence issues to me. OR, my guild can fight them 8v12, if that’s what they want. But remember though, that will put the pressure on them to win, because they will have 4 more players than us. Losing a 12v8 won’t look nice on their end.

It's not a confidence issue, it's not anything other than I simply would not show up with my B game if directly called out by someone else.

You think if some bantamweight (118lbs) called me out, a natural jr. lightweight (130) and demanded I meet him at 118 I would do anything other than LOLOLOLOL in his face? Drac is the top dog, you want that title you go earn it.

Adenoma

Drac, cut 12lbs and get back to @StaticWave so he can have a shot at the title.

StaticWave

usmcjdking wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@StaticWave , you could make 4 friends and then try to fight drac,

Why does my guild have to find 4 new players that we have not played regularly with or tested their compatibility just to GvG with Drac? If Drac can’t fight a GvG with less than 12 members, then it seems like a confidence issues to me. OR, my guild can fight them 8v12, if that’s what they want. But remember though, that will put the pressure on them to win, because they will have 4 more players than us. Losing a 12v8 won’t look nice on their end.

It's not a confidence issue, it's not anything other than I simply would not show up with my B game if directly called out by someone else.

You think if some bantamweight (118lbs) called me out, a natural jr. lightweight (130) and demanded I meet him at 118 I would do anything other than LOLOLOLOL in his face? Drac is the top dog, you want that title you go earn it.

“Drac is the top dog” - that is such an arrogant statement that even smallscalers won’t make.

If Drac does not want to drop numbers, then it’s 8v12

Adenoma

I don't think it's arrogant if it's coming from folks outside of Drac.

I'm not in Drac.

They're top dog.

Edit: even if you found 12 I would bet a lot of money on the Drac horse. I think you would be hard pressed to find folks who wouldn't.

StaticWave

Adenoma wrote: »

I don't think it's arrogant if it's coming from folks outside of Drac.

I'm not in Drac.

They're top dog.

Edit: even if you found 12 I would bet a lot of money on the Drac horse. I think you would be hard pressed to find folks who wouldn't.

We won’t, because why would we fight a GvG with 4 people whom we’ve never played with and have no compatibility with.

But then again, Drac wouldnt GvG with less than 12 players, so they havent GvG with any of the top small scale guilds. Their claim only applies to large scale guilds

Adenoma

Lol

A_G_G_R_O

Incorrect, ANIMOSITY is actually currently the top tier guild pvp in PC NA it’s a reality. Also they are the only guild I would be hesitant to GvG in a competitive setting. Anything past 8 is not competitive in a versus setting. That’s it.

usmcjdking

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Incorrect, ANIMOSITY is actually currently the top tier guild pvp in PC NA it’s a reality. Also they are the only guild I would be hesitant to GvG in a competitive setting. Anything past 8 is not competitive in a versus setting. That’s it.

Indonesia is the best trained standing military in the world, hands down.

They still get crushed by any standard Western power in every theoretical confrontation. It's no different here. Man for man you guys probably are better - but you aren't playing man for man. You called out the entire guild. And with that means you are going to go up against the guild's core because that's what they chose to bring. And in that case smart money is on Drac who has a disgustingly long track record of wins.

Vilestride

Our GM is on holiday until next week. I can promise you nothing will be happening until then regardless of whatever it is. everybody needs to chill out. This is all I will say on the subject as none of this has anything to do with the sotha sil campaign.

A_G_G_R_O

My argument was the skill level of the individuals within the guild. That pound to pound who was better. I am unsure where this was lost in the argument. Yeah I’m sure 100 man pact militia would “outplay” anyone.

Adenoma

Nobody's talking about some situation where ya'll self-proclaimed 1vX complain about Xv1. We're talking about you trying to field a team that competes against one of the top guilds in the game. You've derided their playstyle, challenged them to GvG, and frankly have no track record of GvG to justify any arrogance.

I mean, I play with only a few folks nowadays if I'm not solo, but it's not like it would be hard for me to find 11 strong players to group v guild Drac. It sure as heck wouldn't be interesting for them because they'd roll us - but I'm assuming that's what would happen to you fellas too.

I'm done trying to egg on a group that's all talk and no walk.

A_G_G_R_O

Adenoma wrote: »

Nobody's talking about some situation where ya'll self-proclaimed 1vX complain about Xv1. We're talking about you trying to field a team that competes against one of the top guilds in the game. You've derided their playstyle, challenged them to GvG, and frankly have no track record of GvG to justify any arrogance.

I mean, I play with only a few folks nowadays if I'm not solo, but it's not like it would be hard for me to find 11 strong players to group v guild Drac. It sure as heck wouldn't be interesting for them because they'd roll us - but I'm assuming that's what would happen to you fellas too.

I'm done trying to egg on a group that's all talk and no walk.

I have to recruit 4 new people I have never played with, they have to pick their best 8....

Obviously one would be quicker and easier.

StaticWave

Adenoma wrote: »

Nobody's talking about some situation where ya'll self-proclaimed 1vX complain about Xv1. We're talking about you trying to field a team that competes against one of the top guilds in the game. You've derided their playstyle, challenged them to GvG, and frankly have no track record of GvG to justify any arrogance.

I mean, I play with only a few folks nowadays if I'm not solo, but it's not like it would be hard for me to find 11 strong players to group v guild Drac. It sure as heck wouldn't be interesting for them because they'd roll us - but I'm assuming that's what would happen to you fellas too.

I'm done trying to egg on a group that's all talk and no walk.

It’s not a self proclaimed title. People have seen us 1vX, or got 1vXed. Josh and kita have a youtube channel if you want to check them out. Some even called us hackers. There are many other 1vXers in the game outside of my guild, and we all share 1 common thing: We are either soloer or small scalers.

We don’t keep records. There’s no reason to. But what we keep record of is the number of kills we make as a small man group vs a guild with more numbers.

We challenged Drac to a GvG, but since our guild cannot meet their requirements of at least 12 players, and they arent willing to drop to ours, then there’s really only 2 options left - continue the GvG with us 8vs12 of Drac, or not GvG at all. We’re not gonna ask 4 randoms we have never played with to do this GvG because it’s just unfair. If Drac claimed to be the topdog, then making us play with 4 randoms is kind of putting us at a disadvantage.

Mihael

I didn’t really know who drac was till now but my question is How can a group that has such a great a history of winning and is so good that everyone would bet on them
Not be able to adjust to compete with just 8 people against 8....

gameswithaspoon

Unless you are all willing to make this a nekked boxing match, can you move this to the Shor thread?

TipsyDrow

Adenoma wrote: »

Just to be objective, small scalers very rarely are actually fighting heavily outnumbered. They don't pull stunts like zerg squad where they stand in the open and flex their heals while they RP walk on the porch at Nik.

The whole point of LOS is to mitigate damage by making yourself untargetable. Sure, I've had 1vX where I killed 6-8 players, but realistically I'm fighting 2-3 players at a time tops while I scoot around a resource tower.

removed funny youtube clip, cause reasons.

Taylor_MB

@TipsyDrow Don't get us locked

TipsyDrow

Taylor_MB wrote: »

@TipsyDrow Don't get us locked

Adenoma is ma buddy!!

Irylia

EdmundTowers wrote: »

A lot of good points were brought up and I would like to see the results of a GvG betweeen good small scalers and a good coordinated group raid with even numbers on both sides. However, bringing down the coordinated raids' numbers down to the small scalers does not prove the point of the argument here. The claim was that small scalers are the superior players and that if they could match the numbers of the coordinated raid, they would win.

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

If I could make a 24 man group of the best small scalers, they would literally murder any coordinated pugtato guild. Why? Because beta soft potatoes hide in their numbers and the excuse of "HUE HUE im running a group build bro". I am just ....

no
no
no

I cannot support any of this preposterous garbage. Other than how hard is must be to lead a zerg group due to the nature of cringey remarks of "get packed up" uttered by these beta zerglings.

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

Also, if you small scale wipe zerg squad or Drac with your skills then you'll have my vote that you small scalers are superior.

yes because 6 people are going to wipe 24 (edited for sarcasm)
I'm talking about a strong 6 man group wiping 10-12 people, it happens a lot.
Expecting a handful of players to wipe a full raid of players is not only delusional but is twisting my words as that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying small scalers are better players because of the environment that they play in, and when it comes to a fight that involves SIMILAR numbers they will usually always win, as well as being outnumbered (depending on how large of course). If these FACTS are something you refuse to comprehend that's on you.

You should at least make the attempt to recruit and try to match the coordinated raids' numbers. Here, I don't know who these guys are but they look like a small scale guild and are looking for a fight:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380590/animosity-challenges-any-ad-dc-pc-na-guild-to-a-4v4#latest
Maybe try asking them to team up with you and then recruit some skilled streamers or something and make that GvG happen.

lol

A_G_G_R_O

Yeah NBD I’ll get a small scale guild of all EP players to join my AD group to fight an EP group....

Raknosh

lol this tread has basically become : I have a bigger d*ck than you!

A_G_G_R_O

That’s all this PvP has devolved into due to lack of in game elo or skill rating system which it needs, and a lack of refreshing new objectives that aren’t stale AF. In WoW if someone was talkin smack you’d ask huh, what’s your RBG rankings? What’s your arena rating? And you could also organize a GvG in game via custom battlegrounds. This game just hasn’t any of that competitive edge so all we have is mass **** talking. Even the BGs aren’t team v team.... They aren’t even faction locked so why the lore purpose other than avoiding anything too competitive?

There isn’t a true way to actually prove who is better than who. Even in organize GvG you can’t define who gets scroll bonuses or emp bonus. And in a tight match 5% bonus damage done and 5% less dmg taken crit but bonuses based on map and 3k hp bonus per player could be the difference of victory or defeat.

ZoS needs to implement something to add a competitive edge to their PvP and a skill based ranking system. Half the people in this game that don’t realize why people don’t BG is because it pointless. You deal with cancer tank comps and there is no reward, to be 1st you don’t have to be good you just have to play nonstop. This is the same with emp. This is the same with alliance war rank. I remember Krotha put it perfectly when he simply said what’s even the point of getting 5 stars it’s pointless it doesn’t mean anything. It’s actually true it’s pointless you aren’t rewarded with a thing and it has no skill barring other than how long you have played on one character.

DeadlyRecluse

Raknosh wrote: »

lol this tread has basically become : I have a bigger d*ck than you!

The best part (atm) is it's two guilds who have not, to my knowledge, every really interacted or homed the same server. And clearly both have no interest on fighting the other.