PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Morgul667

I thought shield stacking was the sorc issue

Xsorus

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

two words

Reflective Scale

HoloYoitsu

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

two words

Reflective Scale

Scales still reflects tho. A more comparable change would be if Scales was changed from reflect to absorb only (and not the good kind of absorb that absorbs cliff racers and meteors).

ToRelax

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

two words

Reflective Scale

Scales still reflects tho. A more comparable change would be if Scales was changed from reflect to absorb only (and not the good kind of absorb that absorbs cliff racers and meteors).

To be fair, reflecting is Scales' only purpose. Fragments' main purpose is damage. But, it doesn't make sense arguing about this. Don't know why he brought it up either.

Ankael07

I cant imagine how it would be if Wrobel was in charge of a wheelchair company.

Marketing Team: Mr. Wrobel people arent buying our wheelchairs, they're walking instead! What do we do?

Wrobel: Start breaking their legs to make wheelchairs a ''much more interesting choice''

ToRelax

Ankael07 wrote: »

I cant imagine how it would be if Wrobel was the owner of a wheelchair company.

Marketing Team: Mr. Wrobel people arent buying our wheelchairs, they're walking instead! What do we do?

Wrobel: Start breaking their legs to make wheelchairs a ''much more interesting choice''

This is going to become a meme >_>

Morgul667

Ankael07 wrote: »

I cant imagine how it would be if Wrobel was in charge of a wheelchair company.

Marketing Team: Mr. Wrobel people arent buying our wheelchairs, they're walking instead! What do we do?

Wrobel: Start breaking their legs to make wheelchairs a ''much more interesting choice''

That made me laugh

RedGirl41

Nobody in pvp chooses crystal blast. That's completely insane to take away the cc. Sorcs are extemtly easy to burst down even with "shield stacking" way to go. Catering to new/bad players that can't kill a sorc.

RedGirl41

Frags are CONSTANTLY dodged by shuffle and roll dodge or blocked. It's pretty easy to avoid that dps/cc

Irylia

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Not the changes I would have suggested (nerfs or buffs).

Time to adapt and overcome once again.

But for some serious changes, aside from the jokes, can we destroy destro ult and make it have smaller scale uses or something completely different as it is now.

Options:
-scale like prox det
-diff effects based on staff type
1. Inferno single target fireball does initial damage and applies a mark giving the caster minor beserk to the target.
2. Lightning is a conal shock stun with initial damage (db type)
3. Ice creates frost ripples in an aoe that root and deal damage for every one that hits the enemy. Dealin subsequentially less per each one that hits (ice atro in ic)

Irylia, goblin mag sorc main

I wish people would stop asking for nerfs. Everyone that dies to a skill comes on these forums wants everything nerfed. Tired of reading about it honestly

sure. Or it's a legit thing to remove from the game in an attempt to create healthier pvp. It just amplifies the gap between number differences and enhances the many in their ability to roll over players without putting much effort in.

Xsorus

ToRelax wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

two words

Reflective Scale

Scales still reflects tho. A more comparable change would be if Scales was changed from reflect to absorb only (and not the good kind of absorb that absorbs cliff racers and meteors).

To be fair, reflecting is Scales' only purpose. Fragments' main purpose is damage. But, it doesn't make sense arguing about this. Don't know why he brought it up either.

It was a class defining skill that got gutted and now isn't used by most players anymore?

lucky_Sage

don't worry sorcs it happened to dk aswell a stupid nerf to try to make a usless spell that should be reworked maybe might get used but really wont

Emma_Overload

NBrookus wrote: »

So sorcs have a superior version of Talons, and now the same skill as Petrify with a more useful defense morph? While having better damage and mobility and shields than Dragonknights?

Give Rune Prison something else instead of making it a clone of a DK skill.

Since when have Sorcs had a superior version of Talons? You're not talking about Encase, are you? Encase is a JOKE! Enemy players just jump up and down to avoid it. You can cast Encase 3 or 4 times in a row, burning through half your Magicka, and watch it miss every time.

I would trade Encase for Talons any time.

Xsorus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So sorcs have a superior version of Talons, and now the same skill as Petrify with a more useful defense morph? While having better damage and mobility and shields than Dragonknights?

Give Rune Prison something else instead of making it a clone of a DK skill.

Since when have Sorcs had a superior version of Talons? You're not talking about Encase, are you? Encase is a JOKE! Enemy players just jump up and down to avoid it. You can cast Encase 3 or 4 times in a row, burning through half your Magicka, and watch it miss every time.

I would trade Encase for Talons any time.

I wouldn't, I've screwed so many people over with Encase its downright silly.

Emma_Overload

SodanTok wrote: »

I am all for sorc nerfs as the other guy but when will ZoS finally realize that people

1. do not want to use cast time abilities
2. can not use cast time abilities (both with and without existence of Miat addon)

dark flare, snipe, crystal blast... what do they have in common other than cast time? Smart people do not use them (unless they have to because you did not give them any other tool)

Maybe if they made them all uninterruptible like Wrecking Blow, people would used them more often.

Dorrino

Joy_Division wrote: »

And all this time, I never realized Hskbret was Wrobel on PC NA,

Honestly i suspected that Hskbret was prepping for the new meta.

On the subject, it feels like they will push Crystal Blast down your throats after all:)

But Pertify nerf is even more hilarious, imo.

BohnT

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

Oh Joy, I play every class in the game and i want balance. Is the nerf stupid yes it is, sorcs needs to be nerfed differently, does it destroy sorcs? Hell no.
Almost any class defining skill has been nerfed in the past, it's not just sorcs and many of the nerfs had to be done.

You can tell me i am biased but no I'm not. I may play 2 nbs and only 1 spec for the other classes except Warden ( i simply can't play it it is no fun for me, but i still play a lot with and against Warden to know what they have and what they shouldn't have)
If you can play around something I'm fine with it.
Take away the stun from incap it's the same as frags, you have a reliable cc no need to have it on the already strongest ability for this class.
The only class where I want to see a buff in cc regards is templar they are behind anything and there is simply no synergy with javalin and jabs.
You push your enemy 8m back but this means you can't hit them with your jabs that's what i call stupid.

Derra

Xsorus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

two words

Reflective Scale

Scales still reflects tho. A more comparable change would be if Scales was changed from reflect to absorb only (and not the good kind of absorb that absorbs cliff racers and meteors).

To be fair, reflecting is Scales' only purpose. Fragments' main purpose is damage. But, it doesn't make sense arguing about this. Don't know why he brought it up either.

It was a class defining skill that got gutted and now isn't used by most players anymore?

Well it´s one of the two class defining dps abilities.

Its the equivalent to whip/embers. Not really comparable to wings in that regard.

Reflective scales can be compared to bol (which also got nerfed from 6.5s down to 2.5 and is now rarely used bc of that).

Beardimus

Change to Frag is a big old Nerf.

For those that moan ZOS don't listen hopefully you will shut up now, they have listened to the whining noisy noobs.

No one is hard casting frags in PvP, no one is that keen for a CC.

It's another huge nail in the MagSorc DW coffin and its getting ridiculous now. play how you want, except patch fter patch you just have to head towards one clear dual staff meta setup if you want the gains. It's so dull @ZOS_Wrobel its sucking diversity.

On that any buff to Shadow mundus? Currently weaker than Warrior / mage for crit?

Apherius

NBrookus wrote: »

So sorcs have a superior version of Talons, and now the same skill as Petrify with a more useful defense morph? While having better damage and mobility and shields than Dragonknights?

Give Rune Prison something else instead of making it a clone of a DK skill.

• Talons : Call forth talons from the ground to deal X physical damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Also afflict enemies with minor maim reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, allies can activate impale to deal X magic damage

• Shattering prison : Call daedric shards from the earth to immobilize enemies in front of you for 4,5 seconds. the shard deal X damage when the effect end. This ability cannot be blocked.

Here you have both morph , you can give me talons if you want ! with pleasure ! i prefer minor maim that stupid little damage ( only at the end of the effect !not if the ennemie roll dodge during it ! ) same thing for the other morph , this snares enemies for 4,5 second at the end of the effect .. but they can just roll dodge during it and avoid the snares. so .. do you prefer 0,5(1,5 with passif ) more second of stun ? Or minor maim ? Knowing that enemies will take minor maim even if they roll dodge.

Edit : Wrobel have so much " agree " and " awesome " where is the " don't agree " and " -_- " options ?

SorataArisugawa

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

This exactly.
You destroying the meaning of the classes by making the skills all the same boring mess.
Every class has more or less the same skillset in the end today. There are so less clever effects left and now you destroying a nother one. Thats my main complain of you as a Class/Skill Dev Mr. @ZOS_Wrobel: you have no plan of making the classes unique and fun to play. And that is by far the biggest mistake a person in you department could make!

Aedaryl

@Wrobbel

Can you please make pet sorc viable in PvP pls ?

Actually, when someone kill your pets, there is NO WAY to recast it if the ennemy have bolt escape or any gap closer.

In fact even if you stun the ennemy with streak, the ennemi have time to break free, then gap close/ bolt escape you then interrupt you. The 1.5s is mathematically too much to recast a pet.

This make pet sorc non viable in a PvP environment. Every one having a half brain and have that gap closer/ bolt escape can kill a pet sorc at 100% chance.

I'm speaking about killing pets because pet defense is weak.

Pets have :

- 33% less shield than the sorc.
- Have no defensive cps meaning they take around 30% more damage than the sorc in cps environement + take more damage with shattering blow.
- Have no impen
- Can only be healing with Matriarch heal, and the scamp will never be healing if you are not alone (healing priorities).
- Pet's healing receive got nerfed and now take the same healing than you.
- Pet's have a stupid UI.
- You can't see HPs pets, so you can't even say when you need to heal/protect them actively.

With all that things, you can understand bursting a pet is extremelly easy. And when you saw someone starting to attacking your pet, you need to spam shield or he will be killed. And while you are spamming shield, you can't make damage. The most hilarious thing is you can't save you pet even whith spam shield - he just take too much damage.

For making pets viable in PvP, please @Wrobel reduce the cast time from 1.5s to 1s. So a pet sorc, with smart play can be able to recast his pet and not being 100% interrupted.

xiZeroPointix

sure. Or it's a legit thing to remove from the game in an attempt to create healthier pvp. It just amplifies the gap between number differences and enhances the many in their ability to roll over players without putting much effort in.[/quote]

You have a point. I must admit i was salty at first but after reading and pondering changes made the last few patches. Sorcs are moving more towards a jack of all trades..which has always been the hallmark of the sorc class. They are versatile with having skills like boundless storm comparable to dk hardened armor, encase being a weaker version of talons, rune cage and petrify, now blast is being changed to be more in line with fear allowing a multiple target stun so 3 players will face tank all of your damage. It would seem to be much easier now to throw a crystal blast stun 3 players..throw down mines on top of them. Throw down encase then crystal balst again then fury for the kill. Blast, mines/liquid lighting/ wall of elements procing off balance and concussion hmmm. The frag changes havent takin effect but some testing is in order. This could be a very strong cc in our tool kit maybe the best?? Not sure at the moment but curiosity is there nonetheless

Chilly-McFreeze

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

You have a point. I must admit i was salty at first but after reading and pondering changes made the last few patches. Sorcs are moving more towards a jack of all trades..which has always been the hallmark of the sorc class. They are versatile with having skills like boundless storm comparable to dk hardened armor, encase being a weaker version of talons, rune cage and petrify, now blast is being changed to be more in line with fear allowing a multiple target stun so 3 players will face tank all of your damage. It would seem to be much easier now to throw a crystal blast stun 3 players..throw down mines on top of them. Throw down encase then crystal balst again then fury for the kill. Blast, mines/liquid lighting/ wall of elements procing off balance and concussion hmmm. The frag changes havent takin effect but some testing is in order. This could be a very strong cc in our tool kit maybe the best?? Not sure at the moment but curiosity is there nonetheless

You know that Crystal Blast only stuns the main target?

And about the "jack of all trades" argument. How would your skill bars look like?

Hardened Ward, Rune Prison, Crystal Blast/Frag, Mage's Wrath, Curse
Healing Ward, Streak, Dark Conversion, Encase, Boundless Storm

Or on a Pet build?

Pet, Ward, Prison, Crystal, Wrath
Pet, Streak, Conversion, Curse, Boundless Storm

I don't buy it. No room for a spam, HoT, , Bound Armor, Mage Light pets or second ward. Not enough room to be a jack of all trades. Not to mention that these highly mobile builds with high regen are not the same builds that "facetank" agroup (if that would be even possible) and burst you down in one rotation.

pieratsos

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

sure. Or it's a legit thing to remove from the game in an attempt to create healthier pvp. It just amplifies the gap between number differences and enhances the many in their ability to roll over players without putting much effort in.

You have a point. I must admit i was salty at first but after reading and pondering changes made the last few patches. Sorcs are moving more towards a jack of all trades..which has always been the hallmark of the sorc class. They are versatile with having skills like boundless storm comparable to dk hardened armor, encase being a weaker version of talons, rune cage and petrify, now blast is being changed to be more in line with fear allowing a multiple target stun so 3 players will face tank all of your damage. It would seem to be much easier now to throw a crystal blast stun 3 players..throw down mines on top of them. Throw down encase then crystal balst again then fury for the kill. Blast, mines/liquid lighting/ wall of elements procing off balance and concussion hmmm. The frag changes havent takin effect but some testing is in order. This could be a very strong cc in our tool kit maybe the best?? Not sure at the moment but curiosity is there nonetheless

You would need to be a very bad player to be able to die by a sorc hardcasting crystal blast that you outnumber 3 to 1. And im talking a very very bad player. Like contender for worst player of the game.

xiZeroPointix

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

You have a point. I must admit i was salty at first but after reading and pondering changes made the last few patches. Sorcs are moving more towards a jack of all trades..which has always been the hallmark of the sorc class. They are versatile with having skills like boundless storm comparable to dk hardened armor, encase being a weaker version of talons, rune cage and petrify, now blast is being changed to be more in line with fear allowing a multiple target stun so 3 players will face tank all of your damage. It would seem to be much easier now to throw a crystal blast stun 3 players..throw down mines on top of them. Throw down encase then crystal balst again then fury for the kill. Blast, mines/liquid lighting/ wall of elements procing off balance and concussion hmmm. The frag changes havent takin effect but some testing is in order. This could be a very strong cc in our tool kit maybe the best?? Not sure at the moment but curiosity is there nonetheless

You know that Crystal Blast only stuns the main target?

And about the "jack of all trades" argument. How would your skill bars look like?

Hardened Ward, Rune Prison, Crystal Blast/Frag, Mage's Wrath, Curse
Healing Ward, Streak, Dark Conversion, Encase, Boundless Storm

Or on a Pet build?

Pet, Ward, Prison, Crystal, Wrath
Pet, Streak, Conversion, Curse, Boundless Storm

I don't buy it. No room for a spam, HoT, , Bound Armor, Mage Light pets or second ward. Not enough room to be a jack of all trades. Not to mention that these highly mobile builds with high regen are not the same builds that "facetank" agroup (if that would be even possible) and burst you down in one rotation.

Blast is an AOE stun now meaning multiple targets. Frag was single target.
Sorcs have 3 bars to add abilities which is more than i can say for any other class...i wasnt talking about slotting every skill from the menu either. If you dont have room dont use the d*** skill. I was trying to say that sorc has and is still getting skills from other classes. If you have played the other classes, sorc has more "borrowed" skills from other classes than others. Bars in pve and pvp will be different of course but mine are as follows:

PVE.
Bar1: Force pulse
Pulsar
Liquid lightning
Elemental Blockade
Inner light
Eye of storm

Bar2: Mages wrath
Hardened ward
Dark conversion
Power surge
Boundless storm
Overload

Overload bar: encase
Hardned ward
Daedric minefield
Haunting curse
Rune prison (the one where you can apply endless dots for 25s)

Pvp
Bar1: Force pulse
Frags (soon to be the new crystal blast)
Destructuve Reach
Haunting curse
Wrath
Overload
Bar2: blessing of protection (the only burst heal for sorcs)
Hardened ward
Rune prison
Encase
Entropy
Lights champion/negate
Overload bar
Dark conversion
Streak
Harness magicka
Boundless storm
Rapid maneuver

NBrookus

Apherius wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So sorcs have a superior version of Talons, and now the same skill as Petrify with a more useful defense morph? While having better damage and mobility and shields than Dragonknights?

Give Rune Prison something else instead of making it a clone of a DK skill.

• Talons : Call forth talons from the ground to deal X physical damage and immobilize nearby enemies for 4 seconds. Also afflict enemies with minor maim reducing their damage by 15% for 4 seconds. While enemies are held, allies can activate impale to deal X magic damage

• Shattering prison : Call daedric shards from the earth to immobilize enemies in front of you for 4,5 seconds. the shard deal X damage when the effect end. This ability cannot be blocked.

Here you have both morph , you can give me talons if you want ! with pleasure ! i prefer minor maim that stupid little damage ( only at the end of the effect !not if the ennemie roll dodge during it ! ) same thing for the other morph , this snares enemies for 4,5 second at the end of the effect .. but they can just roll dodge during it and avoid the snares. so .. do you prefer 0,5(1,5 with passif ) more second of stun ? Or minor maim ? Knowing that enemies will take minor maim even if they roll dodge.?

Yeah, Talons is so good every raid group uses 30% DKs pushing front lines spamming talons to root people during ult pushes? Yeah, no.

Both Talons and Encase are expensive, but Talons has a 6 meter range. You have to put yourself at extreme risk to use it. Encase, on the other hand, can be spammed from range at zero risk while standing in 12 layers of healing springs.

Old tooltips, btw. Choking Talons morph does Magic Damage now.

Kilandros

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So sorcs have a superior version of Talons, and now the same skill as Petrify with a more useful defense morph? While having better damage and mobility and shields than Dragonknights?

Give Rune Prison something else instead of making it a clone of a DK skill.

Since when have Sorcs had a superior version of Talons? You're not talking about Encase, are you? Encase is a JOKE! Enemy players just jump up and down to avoid it. You can cast Encase 3 or 4 times in a row, burning through half your Magicka, and watch it miss every time.

I would trade Encase for Talons any time.

You wouldn't if you knew what you were talking about.

STEVIL

Drummerx04 wrote: »

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to touch on a couple things we’re looking to iterate on for this class. First, some of you have mentioned that the Summon Charged Atronach AoE can occasionally miss targets that are right next to it. To address this, we plan to change the AoE pattern to a single circle instead of 5 small circles. We’ve also seen reports of an issue with Overload where the bound armor can persist even when it’s not on your bar; we’re investigating this issue.

Lastly, we’ve seen some of you mention that the new Rune Prison is quite powerful in PVP - we’re looking at adjusting the cost to help counter this. In addition, we’ve been evaluating the Crystal Shard skill line and its morphs and are planning to make some adjustments. The base stun component is going to be removed from the ability and instead placed on the Crystal Blast morph. This will make the choice between Crystal Fragments and Crystal Blast much more interesting as you are choosing between a CC and AoE damage vs. increased burst damage.

Thanks for taking the time to hop on the PTS and test out the changes so far!

@Wrobel We seem to be having a communication issue. You don't make more interesting choices for a morph by nerfing the most highly chosen morph in the hopes that the other morph suddenly looks better.

The choice is not between CC + AoE and single target burst... the current choice is between CAST TIME CC + AoE, and instant cast CC.

Note: it's the cast time that is the perceived problem that people can't move past, and that does not change by nerfing crystal frag... it just nerfs crystal frag.

Apherius wrote: »

• Crystal Fragments: Conjure dark crystals to bombard an ennemy dealing X magic damage, Casting any other magicka ability has a 35% chance of causing your next crystals fragments to be instant, deal 20% more damage and cost 50% less magicka, also damage ennemies near the initial target for X magic damage

• Crystal Blast : Conjure dark crystals to bombard an ennemy dealing X magic damage and stunning them for 2 sec, Casting any other magicka ability has a 35% chance of causing your next crystals fragments to be instant , deal 20% more damage and cost 50% less magicka.

THIS is a change that makes for a decent choice. Both morphs gain an instant cast 50% cost reduction and damage increase proc, BUT crystal frag has a CC, and crystal blast deals AoE damage but no CC.

This immediately makes frags look more appealing on average for pvp, and blast look more appealing on average for pve.

@Wrobel I encourage you to reconsider the specific changes you suggested for crystal frags

i agree with this... the proc needs to be the same between the options as far as cast time and cost. those fundamental mechanical differences are what is preventing blast from being played.

After that, whether blast becomes the stun option or the big AOE option is up for grabs as far as i am concerned. Depends on whether you want to play for staff vs staff option builds or PVE/PVP builds.

of course the other option of making blast the "proc on stamina ability" doing physical damage plus ARE and stun is also an option.

But nothing will overrule the cast time and cost proc so it either needs to go or needs to be for both.

ak_pvp

Joy_Division wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Everyone running a sorc knows that you can totally get by without the stun on crystal frags especially with the changes to Rune prison.

Most of the time you wouldn't even hit someone with the frag stun because almost every enemy you encounter uses Miat.
The change will be a nerf yes but it will translate into a increase in success for every average sorc.

As you don't have a cc with frags anymore you will use rune prison right before you dish out that frag into curse explosion and mage's wrath proc.
I see so many sorcs running around using frags on cooldown and failing miserably. It's like trying to hit Assassin's will without a cc before it won't work.
Now there is a good cc so you definitely don't need another cc as you can't double cc someone. (Of course everything's possible in lag )

I know many people will disagree but please sit down for 10 minutes, think about it and then post in this thread again.

And yes remove the stun from incap it's not needed!!

That's not the point.

Can a sorc still do their thing and have success? Yeah. But it's a slap in the face to those people whose main is a sorc. It's a class defining skill. One that worked and everyone used. It was strong, but had many counters. It's precisely the type of skills the game needs more of, not less. The nerf was not necessary. Hell, the 10% less damage nerf from the Morrowind patch was also unnecessary and should be reverted.

You come in this thread and tell people not to worry about the nerf because there's something else they can do - you just sound like one of the many people who spam nerf sorcs threads. If it was your class defining skill getting nerfed, you and everybody else telling sorcs "it ain't too bad, deal with it" would NOT just lie down and accept it. Nobody likes nerfs .... except when they happen to someone else's class, then they somehow are understandable and nothing to get worked over about.

More than that, the whole method of nerfing skills we actually use to make the ones we don;t more "appealing" is an absolute asinine way to go about balancing or "improving" a game. Such a procedure should be heartily discouraged and unambiguously denounced. The game will not get better and it's only a matter of time before it's your class that is "balanced" by making the sucky morph the standard.

Being stuck with sucky morphs is why people quit playing to classes and quit playing ESO. For years I put up with loadscreens, lag, bugs, questionable mechanics, apathetic PvP devs, guilds quitting, friends leaving, etc., because at the end of the day, those classes I chose to play and invest my time in were fun, could do some cool things, and sometimes did awesome things that made me feel powerful. Much of this is already gone and any further slippage down the precipice of homogeneity, bad skills, and boring gameplay should be resisted rather than encouraged.

/agree

Sorcs burst was a well made. It was easily avoidable but potent when used. Now, whilst the CC removal wasn't a class killer, it is a bit more simplistic and has less payoff for landing it.

Also the rune petrify just doesn't need to happen.