I'd like to see Transmogrification of armor styles be tel var based.

code65536

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Edit: the lack of engaging campaign-relevant objectives also hurts its popularity.

That shouldn't be a side-note. IC failed from the outset because it was PvE/crafting with some PvP gimmicks mixed in. It should've been designed from the get-go to be pure PvP without crafting or PvE objectives. The lack of other options for crafting mats early on merely masked over the inherent misdesign of IC. Finding a new rug to replace the old worn out rug doesn't change the fact that the floor had been rotten all along.

Betsararie

I must admit, I immediately dismissed the idea at first because it was so 'out of left field', but there could be some potential here.

That is, to say Tel var could be one of the ways to acquire capability to transmog, but not the only way. In fact, not even the primary way.

It would just be another credit towards transmogging items (in addition to say, gold), and that alone could revitalize IC, a zone I am very much fond of.

As long as it isn't the only way to do it, and it isn't the primary way, I actually see no issue here.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

No.

IC was already unpopular forcing PvE'ers into PvP to do PvE content. Putting one of the most requested features into the same is going to be even more unpopular and its not going to fix IC.

Its like saying to do PvP content you first need to collect tokens from PvE dungeons.

I'd rather have it tied to ESO+ than have it tied to PvP.

Betsararie

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

No.

IC was already unpopular forcing PvE'ers into PvP to do PvE content. Putting one of the most requested features into the same is going to be even more unpopular and its not going to fix IC.

Its like saying to do PvP content you first need to collect tokens from PvE dungeons.

I'd rather have it tied to ESO+ than have it tied to PvP.

So ridiculous. Transmogging tied to ESO+ is the most disgusting way they could implement it.

Implementing it in IC is perfectly fine, even preferable, as long as there are other ways to acquire the capability to do it too. Then IC just becomes another option. And I don't know about you, but I believe the more options the better.

NightbladeMechanics

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

No.

IC was already unpopular forcing PvE'ers into PvP to do PvE content. Putting one of the most requested features into the same is going to be even more unpopular and its not going to fix IC.

Its like saying to do PvP content you first need to collect tokens from PvE dungeons.

I'd rather have it tied to ESO+ than have it tied to PvP.

Well it is primarily intended to be a PvP zone... No one makes you go there now, and no one would make you go if Transmog were implemented there. Guild stores exist for a reason.

NightbladeMechanics

code65536 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Edit: the lack of engaging campaign-relevant objectives also hurts its popularity.

That shouldn't be a side-note. IC failed from the outset because it was PvE/crafting with some PvP gimmicks mixed in. It should've been designed from the get-go to be pure PvP without crafting or PvE objectives. The lack of other options for crafting mats early on merely masked over the inherent misdesign of IC. Finding a new rug to replace the old worn out rug doesn't change the fact that the floor had been rotten all along.

I personally like the mix of PvP and PvE -- like PvP happening between the alliances with the daedric invasion going on all around as well. It creates some cool fights around bosses and among mobs with new threats and fight dynamics. I do agree that it was poorly implemented with incomplete objectives to incentivize PvP, though.

Aimora

No!

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Blanco wrote: »

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

No.

IC was already unpopular forcing PvE'ers into PvP to do PvE content. Putting one of the most requested features into the same is going to be even more unpopular and its not going to fix IC.

Its like saying to do PvP content you first need to collect tokens from PvE dungeons.

I'd rather have it tied to ESO+ than have it tied to PvP.

So ridiculous. Transmogging tied to ESO+ is the most disgusting way they could implement it.

Implementing it in IC is perfectly fine, even preferable, as long as there are other ways to acquire the capability to do it too. Then IC just becomes another option. And I don't know about you, but I believe the more options the better.

I didnt say I wanted it tied to ESO+, I said compared to having it tied to PvP then ESO+ would be the better option in my opinion.
Obviously the best way to implement it is to make it accessible to everyone everywhere for free since its a very wanted feature.

LadyNalcarya

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Ugh, the bottom line here is "dont lock crafting behind PvP" it makes no sense in any capacity whatsoever. PvP'ers can wail on each other all they want, transmig stones will only bring misery and nerfs when PvE'ers come crying to the forums again.

It wouldn't be locked unless they're bind on pickup.

And ZOS needs to start ignoring forum tears if the game is to be healthy.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No thanks. Adding more pve content to a pvp zone makes no sense and maybe one of the reasons why few venture into the sewers. Those who do are generally only in it for the pve rewards in the first place a change like this wouldn't make that any different. Transmog should be tied to the new DLC in some way but it'll probably be behind the crown store token system let us be honest here.

Also I get the impression that after a few weeks to a month when most people have their rare drop and the guild stores have dozens of transmog stones for sale the sewers goes quiet again as if it never happened at all. *spooky ghost sound*

People that argue that this is a bad idea because locking PVE stuff behind PVP is dumb.

- How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?
- Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

There are some blitheringly stupid comments in here.

Regardless, it would be stupid to tie something like restyling armor to IC would be stupid. You stated that IC failed when Zos made the crafting mats available outside of IC.

If that is the case that activity in IC was based solely on crafting matts then IC failed miserably. Why force players to play a failed design merely to change the appearance of their gear? No reason to defend such an idea that lacks logic.

He said that the IC design failed because the mats became available with less effort outside of IC. IC was incredibly popular when it served a purpose in the game's economy. All it has right now is hakeijo. There are people (like myself) who play in IC and farm for hakeijo, but the game doesn't have enough demand for hakeijo to support a robust IC playerbase like the general crafting mats and repora markets used to support.

Edit: the lack of engaging campaign-relevant objectives also hurts its popularity.

Populated=/=popular.
IC patch introduced 2 more veteran ranks and a new tier of mats so people kinda had to farm. I doesnt mean they actually enjoyed it.

O_LYKOS

lmao

no.

Vercingetorix

Telvar? Really?

Putting a frequently requested feature behind a paywall AND putting it behind forced PVP with *** queue times, crappy lag, and a population of the most depraved scum of the human race?

Have you taken your stupid pills today? If so, consult with your doctor because your dosage needs adjusting.

BrianDavion

Allow me to translate the OP.

Dear Bethesda, there are not many people playing in IC right now, so instead of offering ways to enchourage PVPers to go there, as well as making the PVP fun eneugh that everyone else wants to try it, please lock a feature for roleplayers behind PVP so that I can slaughter Roleplayers.

max_only

BrianDavion wrote: »

Allow me to translate the OP.

Dear Bethesda, there are not many people playing in IC right now, so instead of offering ways to enchourage PVPers to go there, as well as making the PVP fun eneugh that everyone else wants to try it, please lock a feature for roleplayers behind PVP so that I can slaughter Roleplayers.

Well..... to be fair to OP I think it's more like:

Dear Zos I can't make any money killing other players. By the way, did you know there are players who are dying to transform their armor? Why not let me earn money selling the thing they need to transform their armor so I can continue living my pk life and not have to bother with weaksauce environments/mobs (aka 90% of the game). I'd go play a game where killing players is 90% of the game (like an fps) but why do that when I feel so powerful in this game already? So, give me a way to make money off of these milk-drinking babies who like to dress up their "toon".

Let's not assume that OP and his supporters are out to slaughter roleplayers indiscriminately. They're just hoping and wishing and praying that Zos will care about stale content that appeals to a seemingly minority of players.

Did I get at least some of that right?

Lord-Otto

Kena, of course you as a Nightblade want IC to be more populated.
As for me, Gank City can burn in hell.

Vercingetorix

You know what, let's meet you half way and introduce "Transmog Stones" as an IC drop from Molag Bal and District bosses.

However, killing a player who has at least 1 Transmog Stone in their inventory will automatically kill the attacking player instead, granting the Transmog carrier 100% of the attacker's carried Telvar. Afterwards, the Transmog Stone is consumed. In addition, being killed by a Transmog Stone effect teleports your character out of Cyrodiil with a 45 minute cooldown before being able to re-queue.

See, now IC is populated like you wanted, but we, the players who just want to be left in peace, can grind without any scum interfering. Cyrodiil will still be full, just not with players like you.

Jamini

Simple solution, make transmorg items/costume slots available from three different sources and tradable.
Costume slot price assumes a SWTOR costuming system. Transmorg assumes changing the motif of an individual item.

Proposed estimated gold cost for a full costume: 210,000 gold
Proposed estimated gold cost for a single item transmorg: 30,000

Proposed Transmorg Sources

Source 1 Master Writs

Full Costume : 140 Vouchers
Single Piece : 20 Vouchers

Source 2 Vet Trials Completion

Full Costume Droprate : 100% on HM completion, appox 33% chance on normal vet completion
Single Item Transmorg Droprate: Appox 50% chance for one per boss, 2-3 per raider on HM boss.

Source 3 Imperial City Tel-Var

Full Costume: 105,000 Tel Var
Single Item: 15,000 Tel Var

Source 4 Alliance Points

Full Costume: 420,000 AP per slot
Single Item: 60,000 AP per slot

Source 5 Crown Store

-Whatever the hell ZOS wants to sell them for. The Clown store makes no sense anyway-
-Crown transmorg items are BoP-

All Transmorg Items are tradable until used.

Danksta

Tannus15 wrote: »

The problem with this is that you're locking what should be core functionality behind a DLC paywall

This is my biggest gripe with battlegrounds and Morrowind.

How is it "behind a paywall" if you can buy it from traders?

NightbladeMechanics

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Ugh, the bottom line here is "dont lock crafting behind PvP" it makes no sense in any capacity whatsoever. PvP'ers can wail on each other all they want, transmig stones will only bring misery and nerfs when PvE'ers come crying to the forums again.

It wouldn't be locked unless they're bind on pickup.

And ZOS needs to start ignoring forum tears if the game is to be healthy.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No thanks. Adding more pve content to a pvp zone makes no sense and maybe one of the reasons why few venture into the sewers. Those who do are generally only in it for the pve rewards in the first place a change like this wouldn't make that any different. Transmog should be tied to the new DLC in some way but it'll probably be behind the crown store token system let us be honest here.

Also I get the impression that after a few weeks to a month when most people have their rare drop and the guild stores have dozens of transmog stones for sale the sewers goes quiet again as if it never happened at all. *spooky ghost sound*

People that argue that this is a bad idea because locking PVE stuff behind PVP is dumb.

- How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?
- Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

There are some blitheringly stupid comments in here.

Regardless, it would be stupid to tie something like restyling armor to IC would be stupid. You stated that IC failed when Zos made the crafting mats available outside of IC.

If that is the case that activity in IC was based solely on crafting matts then IC failed miserably. Why force players to play a failed design merely to change the appearance of their gear? No reason to defend such an idea that lacks logic.

He said that the IC design failed because the mats became available with less effort outside of IC. IC was incredibly popular when it served a purpose in the game's economy. All it has right now is hakeijo. There are people (like myself) who play in IC and farm for hakeijo, but the game doesn't have enough demand for hakeijo to support a robust IC playerbase like the general crafting mats and repora markets used to support.

Edit: the lack of engaging campaign-relevant objectives also hurts its popularity.

Populated=/=popular.
IC patch introduced 2 more veteran ranks and a new tier of mats so people kinda had to farm. I doesnt mean they actually enjoyed it.

Go talk to the people who played it then.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Kena, of course you as a Nightblade want IC to be more populated.
As for me, Gank City can burn in hell.

I haven't ganked since One Tamriel, even then only for a short period, and I have no intention of ganking again. I also don't bomb anymore. Don't try to project bias onto me. I don't want to fight easy prey. I want quality PvPers to have a reason to return to IC, and I'm not alone.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Isnt the better option to have the stones (or whatever the transmog item is) drop from a variety of endgame content? Seems beyond stupid to limit it strictly to PVE or PVP, and worse yet to secure it behind a DLC paywall.

Taleof2Cities

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Its like saying to do PvP content you first need to collect tokens from PvE dungeons.

I'd rather have it tied to ESO+ than have it tied to PvP.

Though I agree that I'd rather see transmog tied to ESO+, this is a pretty bad supporting argument.

If PvP players are going to have any sort of end game character, they have to do all sorts of PvE content. Especially true in this resource-intensive Morrowind patch ... where you really need to have your Undaunted passives.

Betsararie

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Isnt the better option to have the stones (or whatever the transmog item is) drop from a variety of endgame content? Seems beyond stupid to limit it strictly to PVE or PVP, and worse yet to secure it behind a DLC paywall.

This is what I have been saying.

As long as Tel Var isn't the primary way to get it, and it is just but one of many ways, there is absolutely no issue, and in fact, it is preferable.

LadyNalcarya

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Populated=/=popular.
IC patch introduced 2 more veteran ranks and a new tier of mats so people kinda had to farm. I doesnt mean they actually enjoyed it.

Go talk to the people who played it then.

What do you mean? I played it back then and I remember how "happy" everyone was about having to grind 100+ mats for every armor piece + 2 vet ranks on every alt.

old_mufasa

I would before a costume slot system like LOTRO.. So you have a costume tab anything slotted in it is what appears on your toon when that costumes tab is selected..

Now what they could do is that everyone one would get 1 tab per toon base.. You can buy more tabs through the crown store or if you are ESO+ you have all tabs unlocked.

It's a simple system.. and can make them money through the crown store as well as ESO+ benefits.. seems like it would be a win/win for all.

Ubung

old_mufasa wrote: »

I would before a costume slot system like LOTRO.. So you have a costume tab anything slotted in it is what appears on your toon when that costumes tab is selected..

Now what they could do is that everyone one would get 1 tab per toon base.. You can buy more tabs through the crown store or if you are ESO+ you have all tabs unlocked.

It's a simple system.. and can make them money through the crown store as well as ESO+ benefits.. seems like it would be a win/win for all.

My ideal way of them doing it.

idk

usmcjdking wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No thanks. Adding more pve content to a pvp zone makes no sense and maybe one of the reasons why few venture into the sewers. Those who do are generally only in it for the pve rewards in the first place a change like this wouldn't make that any different. Transmog should be tied to the new DLC in some way but it'll probably be behind the crown store token system let us be honest here.

Also I get the impression that after a few weeks to a month when most people have their rare drop and the guild stores have dozens of transmog stones for sale the sewers goes quiet again as if it never happened at all. *spooky ghost sound*

People that argue that this is a bad idea because locking PVE stuff behind PVP is dumb.

- How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?
- Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

There are some blitheringly stupid comments in here.

Regardless, it would be stupid to tie something like restyling armor to IC would be stupid. You stated that IC failed when Zos made the crafting mats available outside of IC.

If that is the case that activity in IC was based solely on crafting matts then IC failed miserably. Why force players to play a failed design merely to change the appearance of their gear? No reason to defend such an idea that lacks logic.

I'm sorry but I'm done repeating myself.

Regardless, my comment is correct. It would be a fail to attempt to bring relevance to IC by adding exclusive crafting/rest

usmcjdking wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Or based on some special drop found in the sewers specifically.

Make the item able to be sold on markets, and it won't be "behind a pay wall" or "behind PvP" (not that ZOS doesn't deserve to make some money off of newly developed features).

I really just want IC to become relevant again for more than boss farming zergs, especially the sewers. They're empty. Just an idea.

If you want IC to be relevant again, then you should eliminate PvE objectives and PvE rewards, not add more. IC is filled mostly with people who are there for non-PvP things who are trying to avoid PvP, and a few PvPers who prey on them. It's not fun for either group--those who don't want to PvP see the PvP as a nuisance, and those who do want to PvP don't find good fights--only gank targets or groups that zerg together for self-protection.

The PvP/PvE-hybrid model is why IC failed in the first place.

Nah.

IC should be the premiere PVE spot for PVPers. If a PVPer wants to farm, get gear, make some cash, they shouldn't be running some pub dungeon or a trial - they should be in IC. This means you have to actually put relevant, desireable stuff that is specifically locked to IC. Runestones and materials used for crafting used to be practically locked to IC and that was the zenith of IC.

Unfortunately, the incessant crying caused ZOS to go hyper-casual and move these items into open world drops and harvests which was a HUGE mistake. The DLC was made utterly irrelevant and PVP in the zone died shortly thereafter because it was made to be irrelevant due to no other reason than consumer feedback from, and this is important to note, people who did not enjoy the DLC to begin with as well as have no intentions to participate in such.

People who have and had enjoyed IC have watched it bleed out and exsanguinate due to reasons so far beyond their control it's sickening. Everything good about IC, any good reason to be in IC, was siphoned out and redistributed to the base game. And people wonder why it's dead?

Code's statement seems fairly correct. IC was dead before the changes were made that increased the availability of rune stones outside of PvE. I remember farming Tel Var and seeing no one in IC before well before the time frame you suggest caused it's death. I do not recall the exact update, but I think the change you mention started with TG, maybe the update before that.

IC was still pretty active until TG hit. Once TG hit, IC was robbed of any real monetary value that it had making casual PVP more profitable than uninterrupted Tel Var farming.

- Traited materials began dropping in dungeons and could be harvested in Orsinium.
- Repora, Itade and Truly Superb dropping in overland was with TG.
- Mats could be harvested in any zone come 1T.

From a longevity standpoint, none of the above should have even made the discussion board. Orsinium was the first nail. The only valued medium out of IC right now is Hakeijo and RNG satchels.

As far as game economy goes, it makes absolutely zero sense to do anything but put transmutation/transmorgification behind Tel Var. Gold is entirely too abundant ingame even with the housing gold sink to make it a direct purchase via gold. Crown Store purchases would be a huge cop out. Locking translmnop behind Tel Var does quite a few things

You even admit IC died when crafting matts were removed. So it has a failed design. It would be an fatuous move to put lock more crafting matts behind IC and force people to deal with such failed content.

Jamini wrote: »

Simple solution, make transmorg items/costume slots available from three different sources and tradable.
Costume slot price assumes a SWTOR costuming system. Transmorg assumes changing the motif of an individual item.

Proposed estimated gold cost for a full costume: 210,000 gold
Proposed estimated gold cost for a single item transmorg: 30,000

Proposed Transmorg Sources

Source 1 Master Writs

Full Costume : 140 Vouchers
Single Piece : 20 Vouchers

Source 2 Vet Trials Completion

Full Costume Droprate : 100% on HM completion, appox 33% chance on normal vet completion
Single Item Transmorg Droprate: Appox 50% chance for one per boss, 2-3 per raider on HM boss.

Source 3 Imperial City Tel-Var

Full Costume: 105,000 Tel Var
Single Item: 15,000 Tel Var

Source 4 Alliance Points

Full Costume: 420,000 AP per slot
Single Item: 60,000 AP per slot

Source 5 Crown Store

-Whatever the hell ZOS wants to sell them for. The Clown store makes no sense anyway-
-Crown transmorg items are BoP-

All Transmorg Items are tradable until used.

I've suggested the material for restyling be sold at the master voucher vendor. Makes the most sense.

As for a SWTOR appearance system, Zos went that lazy way of one piece costumes. Easier to design since it's not coded into 7 pieces. In the end we will not have the more robust system which is about the only thing from SWTOR I would suggest was an improvement.

Zos didn't think it through since it would have offered a deeper and potentially more profitable system.

usmcjdking

max_only wrote: »

BrianDavion wrote: »

Allow me to translate the OP.

Dear Bethesda, there are not many people playing in IC right now, so instead of offering ways to enchourage PVPers to go there, as well as making the PVP fun eneugh that everyone else wants to try it, please lock a feature for roleplayers behind PVP so that I can slaughter Roleplayers.

Well..... to be fair to OP I think it's more like:

Dear Zos I can't make any money killing other players. By the way, did you know there are players who are dying to transform their armor? Why not let me earn money selling the thing they need to transform their armor so I can continue living my pk life and not have to bother with weaksauce environments/mobs (aka 90% of the game). I'd go play a game where killing players is 90% of the game (like an fps) but why do that when I feel so powerful in this game already? So, give me a way to make money off of these milk-drinking babies who like to dress up their "toon".

Let's not assume that OP and his supporters are out to slaughter roleplayers indiscriminately. They're just hoping and wishing and praying that Zos will care about stale content that appeals to a seemingly minority of players.

Did I get at least some of that right?

Abrasive, but essentially yes.

Lord-Otto

[...]I haven't ganked since One Tamriel, even then only for a short period, and I have no intention of ganking again. I also don't bomb anymore. Don't try to project bias onto me. I don't want to fight easy prey. I want quality PvPers to have a reason to return to IC, and I'm not alone.[...]

Fair enough, but you're the minority. And an essential feature like transmog shouldn't be exclusive to something so blatantly biased as IC. That DLC is deserted for a reason, and you know exactly what that is. Once the Tel Var system gets overhauled, we could consider it again.

usmcjdking

Danksta wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The problem with this is that you're locking what should be core functionality behind a DLC paywall

This is my biggest gripe with battlegrounds and Morrowind.

How is it "behind a paywall" if you can buy it from traders?

Half the naysayers in this thread are arguing by assertion. Literally just repeating "paywall", "forced PVP", "gank carebears" in an effort to create enough confirmation bias amongst forumites that the devs assume this is actually a bad idea.

No one cries about the IC monopoly and forced PVP you have to do to buy Hakeijo. But now it's a problem?

LMAO.

NightbladeMechanics

Lord-Otto wrote: »

[...]I haven't ganked since One Tamriel, even then only for a short period, and I have no intention of ganking again. I also don't bomb anymore. Don't try to project bias onto me. I don't want to fight easy prey. I want quality PvPers to have a reason to return to IC, and I'm not alone.[...]

Fair enough, but you're the minority. And an essential feature like transmog shouldn't be exclusive to something so blatantly biased as IC. That DLC is deserted for a reason, and you know exactly what that is. Once the Tel Var system gets overhauled, we could consider it again.

Why do you think the tel var system needs an overhaul? What would you change about it?

NightbladeMechanics

usmcjdking wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The problem with this is that you're locking what should be core functionality behind a DLC paywall

This is my biggest gripe with battlegrounds and Morrowind.

How is it "behind a paywall" if you can buy it from traders?

Half the naysayers in this thread are arguing by assertion. Literally just repeating "paywall", "forced PVP", "gank carebears" in an effort to create enough confirmation bias amongst forumites that the devs assume this is actually a bad idea.

No one cries about the IC monopoly and forced PVP you have to do to buy Hakeijo. But now it's a problem?

LMAO.

Can confirm, have had a monopoly on hakeijo for 22 months straight. Get at me ZOS.