I'd like to see Transmogrification of armor styles be tel var based.

Fur_like_snow

No thanks. Adding more pve content to a pvp zone makes no sense and maybe one of the reasons why few venture into the sewers. Those who do are generally only in it for the pve rewards in the first place a change like this wouldn't make that any different. Transmog should be tied to the new DLC in some way but it'll probably be behind the crown store token system let us be honest here.

Also I get the impression that after a few weeks to a month when most people have their rare drop and the guild stores have dozens of transmog stones for sale the sewers goes quiet again as if it never happened at all. *spooky ghost sound*

Betsararie

MattT1988 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Ubung wrote: »

I dont agree with this idea at all. In fact I dont think it should even be locked behind an item at all. They should just add extra equipment slots that override the visuals. Something as important as this should be easy to use and able to altar whenever you want.

Pretty stupid to lock it behind pvp. Majority dont pvp so i bet this will not happen.

Should try it. It's fun.

It's the opposite of fun times.

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Ubung wrote: »

I dont agree with this idea at all. In fact I dont think it should even be locked behind an item at all. They should just add extra equipment slots that override the visuals. Something as important as this should be easy to use and able to altar whenever you want.

Pretty stupid to lock it behind pvp. Majority dont pvp so i bet this will not happen.

Should try it. It's fun.

No, it's not. PvP is the most miserable gaming experience I've ever had.

Why's that?

Because pvp is awful? Awful interactions with awful people in awful ways. It's just not fun.


I participated in some pvp in WoW, back in the battlegrounds/pre-arena days. Since then, I've basically avoided all competitive multiplayer games, because I don't enjoy them. No CoD, no mobas, no RTS's, no Overwatch, nothing. You couldn't pay me to play those games. I dislike the heck out of competitive multiplayer.

(Hmm, I think I tried one battleground in Neverwinter, and wandered into the dark zone in The Division a couple times. Which reminded me why I avoid pvp.)

What on earth happened to scar you from PvP for life?

Why it that every time someone says they don't like PvP, people immediately assume that they are terrified of it? Maybe people just DON'T LIKE PVP. Me? I hate PvP, especially in this game because I find the Zerging and ganking playstyles disgusting and I want no part in either. Not liking something doesn't mean your scared of it. Good lord.

I'm not talking about that particular guy you replied too specifically, I mean in general. It seems to be the general attitude of PvPers towards people who'd rather not PvP. Does my head in.

Because it's slightly annoying to see people just dismiss it the way you do.

The only assumption to be made if you ask me, is that you guys just aren't successful in pvp. Nothing wrong with it

How is that the only assumption that could be made?
I don't see me dismissing PvP any different to pure pvpers dismissing pve. I don't assume that they're scared of pve, I assume that they just don't prefer to take part in it. Like I don't choose to take part in the gank/Zerg fest that is ESO PvP. It's just not for me.

That's the primary assumption to be made, because that's what people do when they're bad at something. They just talk about how much they hate it and say they have no interest in doing it. ie, I will assume all the whiners whining about pvp are just that- terrible pvpers. As it turns out, this is almost always true.

MattT1988

Blanco wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Ubung wrote: »

I dont agree with this idea at all. In fact I dont think it should even be locked behind an item at all. They should just add extra equipment slots that override the visuals. Something as important as this should be easy to use and able to altar whenever you want.

Pretty stupid to lock it behind pvp. Majority dont pvp so i bet this will not happen.

Should try it. It's fun.

It's the opposite of fun times.

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Ubung wrote: »

I dont agree with this idea at all. In fact I dont think it should even be locked behind an item at all. They should just add extra equipment slots that override the visuals. Something as important as this should be easy to use and able to altar whenever you want.

Pretty stupid to lock it behind pvp. Majority dont pvp so i bet this will not happen.

Should try it. It's fun.

No, it's not. PvP is the most miserable gaming experience I've ever had.

Why's that?

Because pvp is awful? Awful interactions with awful people in awful ways. It's just not fun.


I participated in some pvp in WoW, back in the battlegrounds/pre-arena days. Since then, I've basically avoided all competitive multiplayer games, because I don't enjoy them. No CoD, no mobas, no RTS's, no Overwatch, nothing. You couldn't pay me to play those games. I dislike the heck out of competitive multiplayer.

(Hmm, I think I tried one battleground in Neverwinter, and wandered into the dark zone in The Division a couple times. Which reminded me why I avoid pvp.)

What on earth happened to scar you from PvP for life?

Why it that every time someone says they don't like PvP, people immediately assume that they are terrified of it? Maybe people just DON'T LIKE PVP. Me? I hate PvP, especially in this game because I find the Zerging and ganking playstyles disgusting and I want no part in either. Not liking something doesn't mean your scared of it. Good lord.

I'm not talking about that particular guy you replied too specifically, I mean in general. It seems to be the general attitude of PvPers towards people who'd rather not PvP. Does my head in.

Because it's slightly annoying to see people just dismiss it the way you do.

The only assumption to be made if you ask me, is that you guys just aren't successful in pvp. Nothing wrong with it

How is that the only assumption that could be made?
I don't see me dismissing PvP any different to pure pvpers dismissing pve. I don't assume that they're scared of pve, I assume that they just don't prefer to take part in it. Like I don't choose to take part in the gank/Zerg fest that is ESO PvP. It's just not for me.

That's the primary assumption to be made, because that's what people do when they're bad at something. They just talk about how much they hate it and say they have no interest in doing it. ie, I will assume all the whiners whining about pvp are just that- terrible pvpers. As it turns out, this is almost always true.

So the only reason that anyone has to hate something is because they're not good at it? Ok mate xoxo

usmcjdking

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No thanks. Adding more pve content to a pvp zone makes no sense and maybe one of the reasons why few venture into the sewers. Those who do are generally only in it for the pve rewards in the first place a change like this wouldn't make that any different. Transmog should be tied to the new DLC in some way but it'll probably be behind the crown store token system let us be honest here.

Also I get the impression that after a few weeks to a month when most people have their rare drop and the guild stores have dozens of transmog stones for sale the sewers goes quiet again as if it never happened at all. *spooky ghost sound*

People that argue that this is a bad idea because locking PVE stuff behind PVP is dumb.

- How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?
- Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

There are some blitheringly stupid comments in here.

Fur_like_snow

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Doctordarkspawn

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

This is absolutely correct. You wont infuse life into IC, you will only monopolize something for it's sake and strengthen nothing.

Enough PVP greed.

usmcjdking

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

The only other real legitimate option would be to make it a raw gold sink by charging a flat rate from an NPC or a drop down option or through some crafting mechanism that eats mats. This would work fine but does nothing to support the current game infrastructure.

Fur_like_snow

Funny thing is I have almost 200k tel var stones in the bank because my friends make a nightly excursion to IC to farm the bosses. Guess how much pvp actually takes place in this pvp zone? Next to none. Adding some tel var bought item will only give life to IC in the short term.

If ZOS is gonna work on pvp content it should involve BGs by adding more maps, modes, ranked matches with a ladder system and better rewards based on performance. I know some of you love IC but you gotta let that one go and look to the future and not the past for updates

Doctordarkspawn

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

No matter how you slice it @usmcjdking the only reason you'd think the whole "I dont wanna go there' arguement is dumb is if you want people to gank. it's what you want. it's plainly obvious.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

Raeph

Tieing PvE to PvP has never worked successfully in any game I've ever played. It's just a horrible idea that creates toxicity amongst the player base. There are better ways to revamp IC.

usmcjdking

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

You've cherry picked the endstate and completely ignored the method, and then through some amazing powers of deduction concluded that that is my argument. The goal is to revitalize IC. The argument is that transmorg has such a high demand and potential for longevity that it has the capability of propping up the tel var market on its own which will drive the IC content hard.

So far you've only disputed that by saying transmorg will only be a temporary demand from the playerbase and by proxy that supply will outweigh demand quickly enough that, in the event its a TV purchaseable token, IC will simply die back out. I strongly question the salience of that assumption, so much in fact that I originally dismissed it as your counterargument.

Romo

Well let's see.

Get rid of the counterproductive stealing of Tel-Var stones first, and the reduction in number of stones per drop by groups.

Then let's talk about your somewhat demented idea of forcing peeps to do bad 1v1 PvP.

Simply looking if you're a griefer or a scared little ganker.

Triumviri

Its probably gonna be a crown mimic stone and a motif that you already know then that allows you to change dropped gear into what you have learned.

NightbladeMechanics

Romo wrote: »

Well let's see.

Get rid of the counterproductive stealing of Tel-Var stones first, and the reduction in number of stones per drop by groups.

Then let's talk about your somewhat demented idea of forcing peeps to do bad 1v1 PvP.

Simply looking if you're a griefer or a scared little ganker.

The incentive to limit group size and constant risk of losing tel var is part of the thrill of IC.

And I'm neither, thank you.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

No matter how you slice it @usmcjdking the only reason you'd think the whole "I dont wanna go there' arguement is dumb is if you want people to gank. it's what you want. it's plainly obvious.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

And JD isn't a ganker. You're making some dangerous assumptions, and it's degrading the logic of your replies.

Fur_like_snow

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

Convert your AP into gold rings/neck pieces and resell them at the guild trader. Convert your tel var into reagent bags then make the reagents into potions and sell them or buy the sets like black rose to resell. Crafting writs take less than 5 minutes to complete per character.

If pvpers are broke it is their own fault. I've yet to play an MMO where I could sustain my characters on pvp alone.

WhiteMage

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

Convert your AP into gold rings and resell them at the guild trader. Convert your tel var into reagent bags then make the reagents into potions and sell them or buy the sets like black rose to resell. Spend 90% of my time in this game pvping and this one is far from broke. If pvpers are broke it is their own fault.

Or, you know... we're using that stuff to barely fund ourselves. Trying out new combinations and gear sets require getting new gear sets and with the prices set by PvEers... I traded the gold from selling 3 gold jewels yesterday for a single staff and now I'm broke again.

Fur_like_snow

traded the gold from selling 3 gold jewels yesterday for a single staff and now I'm broke again.

Well there it is. You spent the last of your gold on a staff and now you're broke, which was your choice to make. So my statement stands true.

So lemme ask the OP a question. How much would these trasmog stones cost? I have a friend who is sitting on a million plus tel var and unless the cost of a single stone was something ridiculous like 100k he could easily buy up potentially thousands of stones on the first day flooding the market.

max_only

Why are pvpers never satisfied with killing each other? Why do you need to lure carebears into IC?

If IC was an enjoyable game mode in the first place, then pvpers would already be there.

Why is it empty? Is it really lack of incentive or is it just not fun even for people who like pvp?

If telvar was ONE of the methods to get these hypothetical transmog stones then fine, but not the only method.

Anyway this argument of hypotheticals is useless, ZOS has no monetary incentive to revitalize old content. Transmog will be through Mimic Stones or require some other purchase. Done.

Artis

Yeah, PvP in general and IC in particular don't have enough. I loved IC, it's always fun, unlike grinding in pve areas. However, if I go play what I like playing, I won't be able to get achievements I want to get. So instead of doing that, I'm "forced" to do other stuff. Houses won't buy themselves, you know.

Transmogrification or not, but I think it's not a bad idea to add something valuable to IC. Maybe even not make it exclusive to IC but make it so that it's significantly more efficient to farm it there.

p.s. No one cares about luring carebears into IC. Go farm your anchors all you want. You don't have to farm everything that drops from mobs. Transmogrification is not a pve or pvp feature. Also, you would have an option to keep farming your idk what you farm - nirncrux? Sell it and buy stuff from IC. That's the whole point of currencies such as gold..... You can trade things...

Again, no one wants to lure you there. They want to give a reason to and lure more players interested in PVP! These players now have no reason to go to IC, because cyro is way better for AP farm and has way more people so you actually pvp way more. IC is an extremely enjoyable game mode, but other game modes are simply more rewarding. You know, eating ice-cream all week would be enjoyable for me, but I don't get paid for it, so I have to go get a job or something.

p.p.s. I'm not a PvPer.

WhiteMage

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

traded the gold from selling 3 gold jewels yesterday for a single staff and now I'm broke again.

Well there it is. You spent the last of your gold on a staff and now you're broke, which was your choice to make. So my statement stands true.

No, I wouldn't say so. I started this game of PvEing and had saved up a good amount of gold going about my everyday business. Once I started to get into PvP, all that saved up gold slowly began to disappear. I go around hunting for low prices when I want something, but because of the vast overabundance of gold that PvEers have accumulated and the surprising scarcity of weapons (thanks RNG)... whatever. Economics. Point is, PvPers don't get paid a "living wage in Tamriel" at the end of every month. Just about everything I find in cyrodiil I use for myself. There's almost nothing left to sell. And then, when I do have a surplus, let's say of AP, and get this crazy idea that I can get the gear I want in some boxes, I end up wasting 3m AP not getting the piece I want, let alone in a good trait! Of course, in all that RNG I did find 4 sellable things, and that gold did help me gear up a bit...

Idk, whatever dude. If you're one of those guys who gets a rare item and the first thought that runs through your head is "How much can I sell this for?" instead of "What can I use this for?" and you're well enough off with that to chase someone else's meta, good for you. Jumping back to the topic, I wouldn't mind terribly if Tel Var was used to purchase transmog things, personally, if it only changes style. If it changes traits, hell yeah, give me some of that action in PvP so I can spend less time grinding my arse off when I want to try a new set. As for the effect on non-PvPers... I can see how that would be painful. If it's just for style, then I'd be of half a mind to say suck it up buttercup to people who complain about having to PvP when they don't want to because I have to do the reverse all the time. If trait is included, you can throw the trial group a bone for it as well.

What I think will happen is there will be a paywall. If it's just for style, that's fine, I won't like it and I won't touch it. If it's for trait as well... that's P2W and I think we'd all go and burn down ZOS together.

NightbladeMechanics

max_only wrote: »

Why are pvpers never satisfied with killing each other? Why do you need to lure carebears into IC?

If IC was an enjoyable game mode in the first place, then pvpers would already be there.

Why is it empty? Is it really lack of incentive or is it just not fun even for people who like pvp?

If telvar was ONE of the methods to get these hypothetical transmog stones then fine, but not the only method.

Anyway this argument of hypotheticals is useless, ZOS has no monetary incentive to revitalize old content. Transmog will be through Mimic Stones or require some other purchase. Done.

We don't want carebears in IC. We want serious players to fight against, but we also want something of value to fight over, or to receive as a reward for playing our preferred content. PvPers are still the poorest player group with AP being the weakest currency by far and tel var being a good source of income only with heavy boss grinding -- which discourages PvP.

IC is empty because we don't have anything to fight over aside from district flags, which have the worst flipping and respawn mechanics imaginable. They encourage potato zergs, get repetitive and boring to fight over, and don't contribute to any higher goal, like the campaign, at all.

Transmog is neither a PvE nor PvP feature. Don't act like you own it or that it would somehow be unacceptable if it were implemented in PvP content. How would you feel if it were implemented as an auxiliary feature of the upcoming Midyear Mayhem PvP holiday event in Cyrodiil?

Doctordarkspawn

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Romo wrote: »

Well let's see.

Get rid of the counterproductive stealing of Tel-Var stones first, and the reduction in number of stones per drop by groups.

Then let's talk about your somewhat demented idea of forcing peeps to do bad 1v1 PvP.

Simply looking if you're a griefer or a scared little ganker.

The incentive to limit group size and constant risk of losing tel var is part of the thrill of IC.

And I'm neither, thank you.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

No matter how you slice it @usmcjdking the only reason you'd think the whole "I dont wanna go there' arguement is dumb is if you want people to gank. it's what you want. it's plainly obvious.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

And JD isn't a ganker. You're making some dangerous assumptions, and it's degrading the logic of your replies.

Enough content. Enough rewards. Enough reasons to do it.

It has. Enough. The only reason people want it tied to Tel-Var is the reason people wanted the PVP justice system.

Greed. And that is the main reason people want to see Transmog tied to Tel-Var. Greed. They want PVP to have more meat for the grinder, more bodies for them to grind. It is greed. Plain and simple. And it does not deserve to be fullfilled.

It will not revitalize IC. It will briefly force people to go there, and then it will stop. Grind to an abrupt halt, like it has before. A feature will be wasted, for the sake of PVP greed.

Edit: I also never said it would be a 'temporary want' in reguards to Transmogs. I said it would be a brief infusion of life on IC. Because people would go for a gold rush and then not come back. It wouldn't be a constant stream. It'd be a brief infusion.

Edit 2: 1. I used 'ganker' as a informal way of saying he just wants meat for the grinder.

2. If PVP does not have relevant rewards, that's PVP's fault. Why should everyone else get bent for your greed? Why should every new featuure be tied to PVP to safe a dying game mode? If it cant prop itself up, that's it's own fault. The one thing I can agree with from this thread, is Transmog is neither a PVP or PVE feature. It should not be tied to either. It should have general game functionality in vanilla or the crown store.

Thank god, that it is entirely likely it'll be monitized rather than be subjected to PVPer greed. And when I say PVPer greed, I do not mean many. I mean the select few, that will come on here and press for crap like this, for the PVP justice system. These are the people who need the PVE-er ganks. These are the people who want them.

Bobby_V_Rockit

God damn, can you imagine the nightblades gamk zergs? I'd rather just pay crowns than face that onslaught.

Tannus15

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, PvP in general and IC in particular don't have enough. I loved IC, it's always fun, unlike grinding in pve areas. However, if I go play what I like playing, I won't be able to get achievements I want to get. So instead of doing that, I'm "forced" to do other stuff. Houses won't buy themselves, you know.

Transmogrification or not, but I think it's not a bad idea to add something valuable to IC. Maybe even not make it exclusive to IC but make it so that it's significantly more efficient to farm it there.

p.s. No one cares about luring carebears into IC. Go farm your anchors all you want. You don't have to farm everything that drops from mobs. Transmogrification is not a pve or pvp feature. Also, you would have an option to keep farming your idk what you farm - nirncrux? Sell it and buy stuff from IC. That's the whole point of currencies such as gold..... You can trade things...

Again, no one wants to lure you there. They want to give a reason to and lure more players interested in PVP! These players now have no reason to go to IC, because cyro is way better for AP farm and has way more people so you actually pvp way more. IC is an extremely enjoyable game mode, but other game modes are simply more rewarding. You know, eating ice-cream all week would be enjoyable for me, but I don't get paid for it, so I have to go get a job or something.

p.p.s. I'm not a PvPer.

I have an idea.

Why not have transmog purchasable for Tel'var as well as drop from world bosses and dolmen chests and end bosses in dungeons.

This is going to sound totally nuts, but why not make it available for everyone in their preferred way to play?

Artis

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Enough content. Enough rewards. Enough reasons to do it.

It has. Enough. The only reason people want it tied to Tel-Var is the reason people wanted the PVP justice system.

Greed. And that is the main reason people want to see Transmog tied to Tel-Var. Greed. They want PVP to have more meat for the grinder, more bodies for them to grind. It is greed. Plain and simple. And it does not deserve to be fullfilled.

It will not revitalize IC. It will briefly force people to go there, and then it will stop. Grind to an abrupt halt, like it has before. A feature will be wasted, for the sake of PVP greed.

Edit: I also never said it would be a 'temporary want' in reguards to Transmogs. I said it would be a brief infusion of life on IC. Because people would go for a gold rush and then not come back. It wouldn't be a constant stream. It'd be a brief infusion.

You sound like a greedy one here. Claiming transmogrification is "your" content, when it's neither pve nor pvp and OP simply expressed his view.

And no. It DECIDEDLY doesn't have enough. If I want to farm gold, IC is next to the LAST thing I would do. No body cares about grinding bodies. Omg, are you scared or something? Think it's conspiracy? No one cares about PvEers in PvP zones. Only people who ask an "open pvp, full loot" type of stuff. Almost no one supports this crowd here. No, PvPers want more PvPers there, because right now there is no reason to go there for them.

Fair point about temporary infusion. I can see why someone can think that. I disagree, however, in this case. Players will always want to change how they look. There will always be demand. And demand creates supply. I would definitely go there to meet demand if I knew I'd sell those consumables for sure. I mean, look at how well hakeijo sells.

NightbladeMechanics

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Romo wrote: »

Well let's see.

Get rid of the counterproductive stealing of Tel-Var stones first, and the reduction in number of stones per drop by groups.

Then let's talk about your somewhat demented idea of forcing peeps to do bad 1v1 PvP.

Simply looking if you're a griefer or a scared little ganker.

The incentive to limit group size and constant risk of losing tel var is part of the thrill of IC.

And I'm neither, thank you.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

No matter how you slice it @usmcjdking the only reason you'd think the whole "I dont wanna go there' arguement is dumb is if you want people to gank. it's what you want. it's plainly obvious.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

And JD isn't a ganker. You're making some dangerous assumptions, and it's degrading the logic of your replies.

Enough content. Enough rewards. Enough reasons to do it.

It has. Enough. The only reason people want it tied to Tel-Var is the reason people wanted the PVP justice system.

Greed. And that is the main reason people want to see Transmog tied to Tel-Var. Greed. They want PVP to have more meat for the grinder, more bodies for them to grind. It is greed. Plain and simple. And it does not deserve to be fullfilled.

It will not revitalize IC. It will briefly force people to go there, and then it will stop. Grind to an abrupt halt, like it has before. A feature will be wasted, for the sake of PVP greed.

Edit: I also never said it would be a 'temporary want' in reguards to Transmogs. I said it would be a brief infusion of life on IC. Because people would go for a gold rush and then not come back. It wouldn't be a constant stream. It'd be a brief infusion.

Edit 2: 1. I used 'ganker' as a informal way of saying he just wants meat for the grinder.

2. If PVP does not have relevant rewards, that's PVP's fault. Why should everyone else get bent for your greed? Why should every new featuure be tied to PVP to safe a dying game mode? If it cant prop itself up, that's it's own fault.

Then why is IC empty if it has "enough?" Many people love IC. Most PvPers remember the early days of IC fondly, back when it was packed full of big groups fighting each other endlessly -- people actually seeking PvP, not the juvenile preying upon PvEers that you seem to think all PvPers live for. Those were great fights in an interesting and refreshing environment, but most PvPers don't go there anymore because it's empty, even though many prefer to fight there.

I think you are biased against PvP and PvPers as a whole, and too jaded to really hold a rational opinion on this topic.

IC is empty because it has never contained a continuous incentive to fight there -- one that doesn't eventually dwindle like you describe. It badly needs one.

usmcjdking

max_only wrote: »

Why are pvpers never satisfied with killing each other? Why do you need to lure carebears into IC?

If IC was an enjoyable game mode in the first place, then pvpers would already be there.

Why is it empty? Is it really lack of incentive or is it just not fun even for people who like pvp?

If telvar was ONE of the methods to get these hypothetical transmog stones then fine, but not the only method.

Anyway this argument of hypotheticals is useless, ZOS has no monetary incentive to revitalize old content. Transmog will be through Mimic Stones or require some other purchase. Done.

10k stones would be my suggestion. Not hard to get but can be hard to amass if you don't have uninterrupted free farm. In addition, throw a NO DROP version on a trader NPC in capital cities for 50k gold to establish a base value.

It's price fixing by administrator, sure.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Romo wrote: »

Well let's see.

Get rid of the counterproductive stealing of Tel-Var stones first, and the reduction in number of stones per drop by groups.

Then let's talk about your somewhat demented idea of forcing peeps to do bad 1v1 PvP.

Simply looking if you're a griefer or a scared little ganker.

The incentive to limit group size and constant risk of losing tel var is part of the thrill of IC.

And I'm neither, thank you.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

No matter how you slice it @usmcjdking the only reason you'd think the whole "I dont wanna go there' arguement is dumb is if you want people to gank. it's what you want. it's plainly obvious.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

And JD isn't a ganker. You're making some dangerous assumptions, and it's degrading the logic of your replies.

Enough content. Enough rewards. Enough reasons to do it.

It has. Enough. The only reason people want it tied to Tel-Var is the reason people wanted the PVP justice system.

Greed. And that is the main reason people want to see Transmog tied to Tel-Var. Greed. They want PVP to have more meat for the grinder, more bodies for them to grind. It is greed. Plain and simple. And it does not deserve to be fullfilled.

It will not revitalize IC. It will briefly force people to go there, and then it will stop. Grind to an abrupt halt, like it has before. A feature will be wasted, for the sake of PVP greed.

Please tell me how you, or anyone else is forced to go to IC to get your proposed transmorg stones when the very explicitly stated, infinitely repeated, often bolded option of making them tradeable allows you to purchase them off guild traders.

Please tell me.

Doctordarkspawn

Artis wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Enough content. Enough rewards. Enough reasons to do it.

It has. Enough. The only reason people want it tied to Tel-Var is the reason people wanted the PVP justice system.

Greed. And that is the main reason people want to see Transmog tied to Tel-Var. Greed. They want PVP to have more meat for the grinder, more bodies for them to grind. It is greed. Plain and simple. And it does not deserve to be fullfilled.

It will not revitalize IC. It will briefly force people to go there, and then it will stop. Grind to an abrupt halt, like it has before. A feature will be wasted, for the sake of PVP greed.

Edit: I also never said it would be a 'temporary want' in reguards to Transmogs. I said it would be a brief infusion of life on IC. Because people would go for a gold rush and then not come back. It wouldn't be a constant stream. It'd be a brief infusion.

You sound like a greedy one here. Claiming transmogrification is "your" content, when it's neither pve nor pvp and OP simply expressed his view.

And no. It DECIDEDLY doesn't have enough. If I want to farm gold, IC is next to the LAST thing I would do. No body cares about grinding bodies. Omg, are you scared or something? Think it's conspiracy? No one cares about PvEers in PvP zones. Only people who ask an "open pvp, full loot" type of stuff. Almost no one supports this crowd here. No, PvPers want more PvPers there, because right now there is no reason to go there for them.

Fair point about temporary infusion. I can see why someone can think that. I disagree, however, in this case. Players will always want to change how they look. There will always be demand. And demand creates supply. I would definitely go there to meet demand if I knew I'd sell those consumables for sure. I mean, look at how well hakeijo sells.

"My" content? It's nobody's content. It's neutral, and should either be a crown store addition, or a base game free adition like dyes. Hence why tying it to -either-, was a stupid idea to begin with.

As for 'no it does not have enough', gold? Well then, take that up with PVP directly. Transmog isn't gonna earn you gold. If gold was the problem, then adressing it directly would likely have been a better solution.

NightbladeMechanics

Tannus15 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, PvP in general and IC in particular don't have enough. I loved IC, it's always fun, unlike grinding in pve areas. However, if I go play what I like playing, I won't be able to get achievements I want to get. So instead of doing that, I'm "forced" to do other stuff. Houses won't buy themselves, you know.

Transmogrification or not, but I think it's not a bad idea to add something valuable to IC. Maybe even not make it exclusive to IC but make it so that it's significantly more efficient to farm it there.

p.s. No one cares about luring carebears into IC. Go farm your anchors all you want. You don't have to farm everything that drops from mobs. Transmogrification is not a pve or pvp feature. Also, you would have an option to keep farming your idk what you farm - nirncrux? Sell it and buy stuff from IC. That's the whole point of currencies such as gold..... You can trade things...

Again, no one wants to lure you there. They want to give a reason to and lure more players interested in PVP! These players now have no reason to go to IC, because cyro is way better for AP farm and has way more people so you actually pvp way more. IC is an extremely enjoyable game mode, but other game modes are simply more rewarding. You know, eating ice-cream all week would be enjoyable for me, but I don't get paid for it, so I have to go get a job or something.

p.p.s. I'm not a PvPer.

I have an idea.

Why not have transmog purchasable for Tel'var as well as drop from world bosses and dolmen chests and end bosses in dungeons.

This is going to sound totally nuts, but why not make it available for everyone in their preferred way to play?

Sources in PvP and PvE would be fine. I never said the two had to be mutually exclusive.

But yours are are too many sources. The market would be saturated, and the transmog items would become worthless, failing to motivate people to seek them in IC. Adding them to IC would be pointless if you can sneeze on mobs in PvE land and get them.

Place them in IC and at the last boss of hard mode vet trials, and it might work. Might. We still have a lot of groups completing trials. Place them everywhere, and you might as well just leave IC alone.

Doctordarkspawn

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Romo wrote: »

Well let's see.

Get rid of the counterproductive stealing of Tel-Var stones first, and the reduction in number of stones per drop by groups.

Then let's talk about your somewhat demented idea of forcing peeps to do bad 1v1 PvP.

Simply looking if you're a griefer or a scared little ganker.

The incentive to limit group size and constant risk of losing tel var is part of the thrill of IC.

And I'm neither, thank you.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How exactly does transmorg qualify as "vs. environment"?

Because it could only be acquired initially thru fighting mobs for some sort of rare drop or at least that is how the OP proposed it.

Do we now quantify the ESO marketplace as PVP? You don't ever have to step foot in IC to transmorg your gear if you simply don't want to.

And many will only go to IC for the rare drop and not the pvp. Beyond the first month IC will be a ghost town. I would prefer ZOS doesn't waste time and resources trying to resurrect a dead zone and instead focus on the new content where imo transmog should be tied too.

Telvar is the proposed medium through which you acquire transmorg tokens in this thread.

The only compelling argument against putting it behind Tel'Var is because people that don't like IC don't want to go to IC which is an informal fallacy anyways (is ought). Meanwhile, the people who do want to go to IC are looking for some method of monetarily rewarding their time in IC much like every other environment in the game. What better method of getting IC active again with PVPers than putting a long term consumable that has longevity and high enough demand to actually create a legitimate market for it as a trade medium?

What sense does it make to pollute PVE zones with more farming as if there isn't enough farming to begin with? As I said previously, the only argument there is against this is that people who don't want to go to IC don't want any reason to go to IC. Dumb argument is dumb.

Because PVP has enough.

The only arguement I've seen is that you want people to go to IC again. It wont be perminant. it'll be a brief transfusion as people keep telling you. And it'll screw a system in the process. The same pleading arguement was made for the PVP justice system, and nobody wanted that either.

No matter how you slice it @usmcjdking the only reason you'd think the whole "I dont wanna go there' arguement is dumb is if you want people to gank. it's what you want. it's plainly obvious.

You will not make IC more popular by cannibalism the transmog system. You may want IC to be popular with all your heart. You will not make it popular. Let it go. Stop attempting to cannibalize every aspect of gameplay possible for PVP's sake.

PvP has enough what? If you mean incentive to get people into IC, then you're mistaken. Many people love IC but never go there because there is little incentive to play there. PvPers are the poorest players in the game because of lack of income from playing their preferred content.

And JD isn't a ganker. You're making some dangerous assumptions, and it's degrading the logic of your replies.

Enough content. Enough rewards. Enough reasons to do it.

It has. Enough. The only reason people want it tied to Tel-Var is the reason people wanted the PVP justice system.

Greed. And that is the main reason people want to see Transmog tied to Tel-Var. Greed. They want PVP to have more meat for the grinder, more bodies for them to grind. It is greed. Plain and simple. And it does not deserve to be fullfilled.

It will not revitalize IC. It will briefly force people to go there, and then it will stop. Grind to an abrupt halt, like it has before. A feature will be wasted, for the sake of PVP greed.

Edit: I also never said it would be a 'temporary want' in reguards to Transmogs. I said it would be a brief infusion of life on IC. Because people would go for a gold rush and then not come back. It wouldn't be a constant stream. It'd be a brief infusion.

Edit 2: 1. I used 'ganker' as a informal way of saying he just wants meat for the grinder.

2. If PVP does not have relevant rewards, that's PVP's fault. Why should everyone else get bent for your greed? Why should every new featuure be tied to PVP to safe a dying game mode? If it cant prop itself up, that's it's own fault.

Then why is IC empty if it has "enough?" Many people love IC. Most PvPers remember the early days of IC fondly, back when it was packed full of big groups fighting each other endlessly -- people actually seeking PvP, not the juvenile preying upon PvEers that you seem to think all PvPers live for. Those were great fights in an interesting and refreshing environment, but most PvPers don't go there anymore because it's empty, even though many prefer to fight there.

I think you are biased against PvP and PvPers as a whole, and too jaded to really hold a rational opinion on this topic.

IC is empty because it has never contained a continuous incentive to fight there -- one that doesn't eventually dwindle like you describe. It badly needs one.

As people have described previous, IC is partially PVE content. What isn't PVE content is generally speaking, standard PVP or PVP with districts that flip often and have poor mechanics.

As for 'it's allways empty', it's likely largely a self-propigating problem. People dont go there because it's empty, which creates a vortex. It could also be nostalgia glasses. It could also be, that the 'interesting and refreshing environment' was a brief repireve but came with it's own problems.

I could go on and on about the possibilities, but the bottom line is, the reason IC failed, was likely IC itself. And cannibalizing the Transmog system isn't gonna change that.