Sorcs and Favoritism

Izaki

Killset wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs

Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:

https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s

I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.

Dude. This was about my breaking point with your posts. Let me clue you in on something. Your rebuttals, responses, retorts and comebacks to nearly everything is prove it. Show me evidence. You can't prove it. Blah, blah blah. Then you finish by saying you have no problem beating Sorcs as if this very fact alone PROVES your point. This isn't a court and you are not the ESO Judge and Jury. People do not have to provide you with video, complex mathematical equations, and screen shots attached to every post. People have experiences in the game of ESO and come to the forums to find information or express feelings and opinions. It's your right as the reader to accept or dismiss them. I main a Nightblade and play all of the other classes. I know my Sorc has a better overall tool kit than my other classes as a whole. Much better. And I don't need to prove it to you. I hate to say that because I love my Nightblade.

Where do you think all of this "Sorc Hate" is coming from? Do you think it is a conspiracy? Or maybe there is an underlying reason that has been quietly building up and finally exploded after the recent patch notes. People keep comparing passives, skills, 2 shields, 3 shields, nerfs, buffs, lack of buffs, etc. I'll tell you exactly what makes Sorc one of the most overpowered classes in the game. And most of it has nothing to do with the Sorc itself.

It started with the the nerf to shields everyone likes to remind us about. However annulment was buffed to resist physical damage at the same time giving Sorcs 3 universal shields instead of 2. Sorcs do not like to mention this. Most Sorcs could care less about the duration nerf other than to use it in "you see we are not OP!" arguments. Then came the change to armor sets in One Tamriel allowing Lich to be run in a 5/5/2 set up and therefore granting access to a monster set, damage set, and arguably the best sustain set in the game. Next is access to 3 of the best Ultimates in the game in the form of Eye of the Storm, Negate, and Soul Assault. Then comes the 8% damage buff to Fire destro and curse becoming undodeable and unblockable. All of these above mentioned things are packed into a class that can do it all from range, enjoys some of the best maneuverability in the game, and one of the best executes. I won't even get into PvE. It is an accepted fact that Mag Sorc is the best. Hands down. Most of the things I listed have absolutely nothing to do with Sorc class itself, except for one thing. All of the things I listed synergize with the Sorc FAR better than any other class. Top tier damage, top tier defense, top tier mobility, all wrapped up into one class. And throw in best PvE class for the cherry on top.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If the game were to freeze in its current state. Why would any new player, just starting the game, wanting to enjoy and do well in all of the content, play anything BUT a Mag Sorc. The Sorc may not be first place in every single event but the Sorc is on the podium in EVERY single event. And it is the only class that can say that.

Exactly my point. None of the things that make Sorc strong in PvP are Sorc things. None of the nerfs that make Sorc weaker this patch are Sorc things either.
Just 2 things: Curse was undodgeable and unblockable since the begining of the game and became blockable in Orsinium or TG which was essentially a revert to its initial state. The execute was considered the worst in the game for a pretty long time, because of huge delay between the animation and the hit itself.
It is widely accepted that Pet Sorc is the strongest PvE class. I don't argue against that. The Scamp is definitely overtuned. But once again, non-pet Sorcs are pretty balanced compared to other classes.

And no, I can count 3-4 posts when I was asking for "proof", so not even close to "nearly all" (or even a third) of my posts here. And I don't need the "proof" or "evidence" for myself. ZOS need it to do what you want them to do so badly: nerf Sorcs. They always ask for constructive well thought out posts, none of that is even in this thread, there's just a bunch of hysterical screaming and crying about some favoritism bull***. So if you had managed to actually come up with all the things that make Sorcs absurdly OP while putting it into perspective with all 4 other classes and throwing in a few calculations, then I'd be making you a favor when asking for proof and evidence, because then ZOS will have a reason to nerf the class. Like you said, the Sorc "supremacy" is an indirect product of buffs to other things in the game. And if you even so much as logged on to PTS and tried to play a Sorc during the Cyro event you'd know that they aren't nearly as potent as they are on live, which just crushes the whole "sorcs remain unchanged and OP = favoritism" thing.

Killset

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs

Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:

https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s

I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.

Dude. This was about my breaking point with your posts. Let me clue you in on something. Your rebuttals, responses, retorts and comebacks to nearly everything is prove it. Show me evidence. You can't prove it. Blah, blah blah. Then you finish by saying you have no problem beating Sorcs as if this very fact alone PROVES your point. This isn't a court and you are not the ESO Judge and Jury. People do not have to provide you with video, complex mathematical equations, and screen shots attached to every post. People have experiences in the game of ESO and come to the forums to find information or express feelings and opinions. It's your right as the reader to accept or dismiss them. I main a Nightblade and play all of the other classes. I know my Sorc has a better overall tool kit than my other classes as a whole. Much better. And I don't need to prove it to you. I hate to say that because I love my Nightblade.

Where do you think all of this "Sorc Hate" is coming from? Do you think it is a conspiracy? Or maybe there is an underlying reason that has been quietly building up and finally exploded after the recent patch notes. People keep comparing passives, skills, 2 shields, 3 shields, nerfs, buffs, lack of buffs, etc. I'll tell you exactly what makes Sorc one of the most overpowered classes in the game. And most of it has nothing to do with the Sorc itself.

It started with the the nerf to shields everyone likes to remind us about. However annulment was buffed to resist physical damage at the same time giving Sorcs 3 universal shields instead of 2. Sorcs do not like to mention this. Most Sorcs could care less about the duration nerf other than to use it in "you see we are not OP!" arguments. Then came the change to armor sets in One Tamriel allowing Lich to be run in a 5/5/2 set up and therefore granting access to a monster set, damage set, and arguably the best sustain set in the game. Next is access to 3 of the best Ultimates in the game in the form of Eye of the Storm, Negate, and Soul Assault. Then comes the 8% damage buff to Fire destro and curse becoming undodeable and unblockable. All of these above mentioned things are packed into a class that can do it all from range, enjoys some of the best maneuverability in the game, and one of the best executes. I won't even get into PvE. It is an accepted fact that Mag Sorc is the best. Hands down. Most of the things I listed have absolutely nothing to do with Sorc class itself, except for one thing. All of the things I listed synergize with the Sorc FAR better than any other class. Top tier damage, top tier defense, top tier mobility, all wrapped up into one class. And throw in best PvE class for the cherry on top.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If the game were to freeze in its current state. Why would any new player, just starting the game, wanting to enjoy and do well in all of the content, play anything BUT a Mag Sorc. The Sorc may not be first place in every single event but the Sorc is on the podium in EVERY single event. And it is the only class that can say that.

Exactly my point. None of the things that make Sorc strong in PvP are Sorc things. None of the nerfs that make Sorc weaker this patch are Sorc things either.
Just 2 things: Curse was undodgeable and unblockable since the begining of the game and became blockable in Orsinium or TG which was essentially a revert to its initial state. The execute was considered the worst in the game for a pretty long time, because of huge delay between the animation and the hit itself.
It is widely accepted that Pet Sorc is the strongest PvE class. I don't argue against that. The Scamp is definitely overtuned. But once again, non-pet Sorcs are pretty balanced compared to other classes.

And no, I can count 3-4 posts when I was asking for "proof", so not even close to "nearly all" (or even a third) of my posts here. And I don't need the "proof" or "evidence" for myself. ZOS need it to do what you want them to do so badly: nerf Sorcs. They always ask for constructive well thought out posts, none of that is even in this thread, there's just a bunch of hysterical screaming and crying about some favoritism bull***. So if you had managed to actually come up with all the things that make Sorcs absurdly OP while putting it into perspective with all 4 other classes and throwing in a few calculations, then I'd be making you a favor when asking for proof and evidence, because then ZOS will have a reason to nerf the class. Like you said, the Sorc "supremacy" is an indirect product of buffs to other things in the game. And if you even so much as logged on to PTS and tried to play a Sorc during the Cyro event you'd know that they aren't nearly as potent as they are on live, which just crushes the whole "sorcs remain unchanged and OP = favoritism" thing.

Trust me. I am a big advocate of seeing how things pan out when they go live. I am simply giving my opinion why I think Sorcs are overtuned the way they stand right now. Who cares whether or not the recent changes I listed are Sorc specific or not. The fact is they compliment Sorc FAR better than any other class. Why is that? It's all about the destination in this game, not the journey.

I don't remember calling for Sorc nerfs one time in my previous post. I was explaining what I think is a huge factor in Sorc over performance, when compared to other classes, and maybe why such animosity has developed towards Sorc. Stop inventing things to support your argument and fuel your rage. And just so your crystal clear on MY agenda. I am starting to not care anymore what they do with the class. It's played out.

You demand proof that Sorc is overpowered. Someone can just as easily demand proof that it is not. You could post videos and screenshots showing that the class is, in fact, balanced. Someone could just as easily post videos and screenshots to the contrary. I am not being argumentative here. I am simply saying I doubt anyone could produce the kind of "smoking gun" evidence you require. What people can offer are opinions and experiences with the class. Hopefully they are relatively unbiased. We can then agree or disagree as we see fit.

I do not pretend to understand ZOS' reasoning and criteria for buffing or nerfing a class, unlike you, who seems to think he knows exactly what the company wants and requires. I think both of us could go all day with a list of illogical buffs and nerfs. But I am going clue you in on something I would bet my house on. ZOS cares about money. And if they care about money, they care about their consumers PERCEPTION of the game. Knowing this, Sorcs should be very concerned.

I'll end this with a reiteration of the fact that I think we definitely need to see how things shake up when Morrowind goes live. It may be this is all a moot conversation. Time will tell.

NyassaV

My friend says he found and killed Wrobel on Azura's Star one day... And he was a sorc... This is an inside job. But hey at least we know that they do play their own game

thankyourat

Hollery wrote: »

My friend says he found and killed Wrobel on Azura's Star one day... And he was a sorc... This is an inside job. But hey at least we know that they do play their own game

It could've just been a player named wrobel

Vosital

Morrowind is out in <2 weeks now. Looks like no amount of feedback or logic is going to get through to the devs. I gotta say, in all my years of gaming, I have never seen stubbornness and favoritism actual impede sales and success to this degree.

Usually, money and the longevity of a product trumps all. Zenimax though, they would rather watch their game die than give out real nerfs to their precious Sorcerers. It's actually quite incredible.

Tasear

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

Yeah, at this point bring in the Catalyst passive (20 ult on potion use), the Siphoning passive (every 4 seconds gain 2 extra ultimate), the Dawn's Wrath passive (3 ult every 6 seconds) and the Earthen Heart passive (3 ult every 6 seconds). All of these give roughly the same ultimate gain as the Powerstone passive.

Do you know the catalist passive can be used each 45 secs? Than you need 40 secs to get 20 ulti with siph passive? and that together they reach simiar numbers to the reduction provided by power stone if you are aiming for EOTS?

In other words, you need at least 45 secs of depleting your magicka pool and potion inventory to get what sorcs has granted...

Seriously, try harder

@Xvorg
Destro ultimate on a Sorc costs 213 ult. The only ultimate gain Sorcs have is the basic ultimate gain, aka Light, Heavy attacks and block, this is 3 ultimate every second for 9 seconds. From here its pretty easy to see that it will take a Sorc 71 seconds to get the Destro ult charged.

Destro ultimate on a NB costs 250 ult. With the standard ult gain and the siphoning passive, you have the standard ult gain + the extra 2 ult every 2 seconds. This is basically 4 ult per second. Which gives you 62.5 seconds to charge the Destro ult. And that's without the potions. So lets take into account the potions. Basically, you start with 0 ult and you drink your potion, that gives you 20 ult right off the bat, which basically takes the cost down to 230 ultimate. At this point, you'll take 57.5 seconds to get your destro ult, if you don't drink a second potion. If you do, then it will take you 52.5 seconds to charge a Destro ult if a Siphoning ability is cast every 2 seconds (not hard at all). So a NB will get a destro ultimate almost 20 seconds faster than a Sorc would. That's quite a large margin. Even if you don't use a siphing abilty every 2 seconds, you'll still get your ult faster than a sorc would.

So what were you saying? Try harder? I think that applies to you

Yes, mageblades using strife can build ulti in 62.5 secs, I acknowledge that. The other skills in that line are not going to help you to do it because:

1- Cripple is a dot that lasts 8 secs, so you can go on spamming it each 4 secs to get 2 ulti
2- Agony doesn't work on an enemy that broke CC
3- Casting and recasting siph strikes each 4 secs is idiotic
4- Drain power requires an enemy at 8 mts at least and is a so expensive skill that is prohibitive to spam it.

So, to build ulti in 62.5 secs you must:

1- Be a mageblade (stamblades are out of the equation)
2- Slot (and use) strife (the skill nerfed last patch, right?)

What's the word we use in this case? Something about pigeons and holes, do you remember?

If you are a mageblade aiming for DPS, you use force pulse instead of strife and you have to build all the way long from 0 to 250 ulti.

On the other hand, the sorc passive benefits any build, whether it's stam or magicka based. Then, who's on a better spot?

Please TRY HARDER!

Yeah, even without activating a Siphoning Ability AT ALL, you're still gaining ultimate at the same rate as a Sorc (2 potions = 40 ult, 15% cost reduction on Destro ult = 37 ult). But who are you kidding here? Magblades activate Siphoning abilities at least every 8 seconds for Cripple so lets say you're activating Siphoning attacks every 16 seconds too. That gives you an extra 6 ultimate every 16 seconds in total right? With 2 potions you're still gaining a destro ult after 62.2 sec. That's still almost 10 sec faster than a Sorc. Now if you don't have any sustain issues, and not using Siphoning Attacks at all, with just Cripple and Potions you're gaining a Destro ultimate in 64.6 seconds.
Since you were the one who started talking about DPS, then you should be using potions on cooldown for the Spell Damage and the Spell Crit buffs. So what's your point?

In AoE situations Sap Essense is the strongest magicka AoE in the game, so of course you're gonna spam it and at that point you'll have even higher ultimate gain. In every situation outside of trials, you're using Strife as your spammable, and at that point you are definitely gaining your Destro Ult faster than a Sorc. And don't forget Soul Harvest which just straight up 12 ultimate for anything you kill.

Also I have a question for you: why do you bring up stamblades when we are talking about destro ult? Running out of stupid arguments yet?
Well, as a matter of fact lets take a look at that too. For all ultimates cheaper than 150 ultimate, the Catalyst passive is better than the Power Stone passive. And as soon as the ultimate is expensive enough to be able to drink 2 potions (165 ult cost), Catalyst becomes better once again, all the way up until 250 ult where both passives even out once again. So the only time Power Stone is better than Catalyst is between 150 and 165 ult, and guess what? There are no ultimates between 150 and 165.
Well... Rend costs 150 ultimate so Catalyst = Power Stone. Dawnbreaker costs 125 so Catalyst > Power Stone. Ballista costs 175 ult so Catalyst > Power Stone. So for all stamina ultimates NB has a better ultimate gain than Sorcs.

I've heard stupid stuff, but saying that Power Stone is OP, is the stupidest thing I've heard to date on Sorcs. NBs have the best ultimate regen in the game and you're trying to argue against a fact established long ago. But my point was, every class have ultimate gain that is equal, with NBs being the exception. You can try harder still mate. But if you make false claims when there's simple math to prove you wrong, you're always going to lose. Please verify your statements before making them.

Let's also compare shipon strike and dark deal because it's not actually far off as some people are claiming.

With the recent Nerf to dark exchange maybe it's time sorc complain like Templars who caused and get there class defining skill back.

Aquanova

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

Twohothardware

That would be a good change to shields in general making them scale off max health instead of Magicka. Magicka increases damage, you should not be able to increase survivability with the same stat that increases damage because then you only focus on maxing that one stat. Either that or give Stamina classes like DK a Stamina scaled Igneous shield.

Derra

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Pirate will no longer be an issue next patch for burst builds (it won´t loose much of it´s power against magica dot builds though).

If you´re fighting vamp sorcs - ever considered daedric dmg enchants? Anyone who is vamp and uses pirate is royally *** when you have shieldbreaker. There is no coming back from that.

I´m a sorc myself most of the time. I solo frequently. I can kill most other sorcs without problem even if they use harness and pirate skeleton in 1vX situations (i usually go for the sorc first to establish dominance).
I don´t use harness or dampen magica myself. I don´t use pirate skeleton.
I´m runnin an infused daedric dmg glyph on my backbar - invaluable.

What you want against a sorc is either a high dmg dw 2h setup or a 2h bow setup with shieldbreaker on bow bar.
Also you don´t want to lightattack weave. It´s for sustained dps - any burst should always start with a full heavy of 2h or dw.
Apply dots (dw and or 2h bleed, PI or bloodcraze) heavyattack=>incap=>will/supriseattack/finisher.
Shadow mundus should at the moment be the natural choice for stam builds imo.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Pirate will no longer be an issue next patch for burst builds (it won´t loose much of it´s power against magica dot builds though).

If you´re fighting vamp sorcs - ever considered daedric dmg enchants? Anyone who is vamp and uses pirate is royally *** when you have shieldbreaker. There is no coming back from that.

I´m a sorc myself most of the time. I solo frequently. I can kill most other sorcs without problem even if they use harness and pirate skeleton in 1vX situations (i usually go for the sorc first to establish dominance).
I don´t use harness or dampen magica myself. I don´t use pirate skeleton.
I´m runnin an infused daedric dmg glyph on my backbar - invaluable.

What you want against a sorc is either a high dmg dw 2h setup or a 2h bow setup with shieldbreaker on bow bar.
Also you don´t want to lightattack weave. It´s for sustained dps - any burst should always start with a full heavy of 2h or dw.
Apply dots (dw and or 2h bleed, PI or bloodcraze) heavyattack=>incap=>will/supriseattack/finisher.
Shadow mundus should at the moment be the natural choice for stam builds imo.

I forgot to mention the heavy attack but still even if I go full burst I have to wait for the curse to explode before I do anything because you die in MA way to easily.
The damage difference for stam builds is marginal with vamp glyph or disease damage ~700-1k
Shieldbreaker simply is useless, I really don't understand why anyone would use it against magsorc. You need 10 seconds with no heals for the sorc to kill it with shieldbreaker only. Any sorc with a small heal can ignore shieldbreaker at any time.
Shieldbreaker is only useful if you outnumber the sorc and that is hard in 1vX

DW is good against sorc but you lack reliable burst heal with it on a stamnb if you don't play DW/2h but then you lose range pressure and one of the best skill lines for pvp ( poison injection, major expedition, bow heavy attack)

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Pirate will no longer be an issue next patch for burst builds (it won´t loose much of it´s power against magica dot builds though).

If you´re fighting vamp sorcs - ever considered daedric dmg enchants? Anyone who is vamp and uses pirate is royally *** when you have shieldbreaker. There is no coming back from that.

I´m a sorc myself most of the time. I solo frequently. I can kill most other sorcs without problem even if they use harness and pirate skeleton in 1vX situations (i usually go for the sorc first to establish dominance).
I don´t use harness or dampen magica myself. I don´t use pirate skeleton.
I´m runnin an infused daedric dmg glyph on my backbar - invaluable.

What you want against a sorc is either a high dmg dw 2h setup or a 2h bow setup with shieldbreaker on bow bar.
Also you don´t want to lightattack weave. It´s for sustained dps - any burst should always start with a full heavy of 2h or dw.
Apply dots (dw and or 2h bleed, PI or bloodcraze) heavyattack=>incap=>will/supriseattack/finisher.
Shadow mundus should at the moment be the natural choice for stam builds imo.

I forgot to mention the heavy attack but still even if I go full burst I have to wait for the curse to explode before I do anything because you die in MA way to easily.
The damage difference for stam builds is marginal with vamp glyph or disease damage ~700-1k
Shieldbreaker simply is useless, I really don't understand why anyone would use it against magsorc. You need 10 seconds with no heals for the sorc to kill it with shieldbreaker only. Any sorc with a small heal can ignore shieldbreaker at any time.
Shieldbreaker is only useful if you outnumber the sorc and that is hard in 1vX

DW is good against sorc but you lack reliable burst heal with it on a stamnb if you don't play DW/2h but then you lose range pressure and one of the best skill lines for pvp ( poison injection, major expedition, bow heavy attack)

I´ll flatout say: Bow is seriously overrated.
NBs that give me trouble are 2h dw.

Shieldbreaker is not meant to be spammed. You burst the sorc (where pirate should procc) and when you get them into low health you bowswap and execute them through shields.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Pirate will no longer be an issue next patch for burst builds (it won´t loose much of it´s power against magica dot builds though).

If you´re fighting vamp sorcs - ever considered daedric dmg enchants? Anyone who is vamp and uses pirate is royally *** when you have shieldbreaker. There is no coming back from that.

I´m a sorc myself most of the time. I solo frequently. I can kill most other sorcs without problem even if they use harness and pirate skeleton in 1vX situations (i usually go for the sorc first to establish dominance).
I don´t use harness or dampen magica myself. I don´t use pirate skeleton.
I´m runnin an infused daedric dmg glyph on my backbar - invaluable.

What you want against a sorc is either a high dmg dw 2h setup or a 2h bow setup with shieldbreaker on bow bar.
Also you don´t want to lightattack weave. It´s for sustained dps - any burst should always start with a full heavy of 2h or dw.
Apply dots (dw and or 2h bleed, PI or bloodcraze) heavyattack=>incap=>will/supriseattack/finisher.
Shadow mundus should at the moment be the natural choice for stam builds imo.

I forgot to mention the heavy attack but still even if I go full burst I have to wait for the curse to explode before I do anything because you die in MA way to easily.
The damage difference for stam builds is marginal with vamp glyph or disease damage ~700-1k
Shieldbreaker simply is useless, I really don't understand why anyone would use it against magsorc. You need 10 seconds with no heals for the sorc to kill it with shieldbreaker only. Any sorc with a small heal can ignore shieldbreaker at any time.
Shieldbreaker is only useful if you outnumber the sorc and that is hard in 1vX

DW is good against sorc but you lack reliable burst heal with it on a stamnb if you don't play DW/2h but then you lose range pressure and one of the best skill lines for pvp ( poison injection, major expedition, bow heavy attack)

I´ll flatout say: Bow is seriously overrated.
NBs that give me trouble are 2h dw.

Shieldbreaker is not meant to be spammed. You burst the sorc (where pirate should procc) and when you get them into low health you bowswap and execute them through shields.

I have to disagree bow is such an awesome weapon in PvP against almost any build. It helps pressuring a sorc who's camping in his mines until you are ready to burst, it is so good as an escape tool for stamnb as one of your main defences give you major expedition.

A good sorc won't die to Shieldbreaker, if you burst him he'll go defensive and starts to streak and Los you and even if you reduce the sorcs health to 4k you have to hit 3 light attacks to kill the sorc as you only deal 2075 flat damage.
One tick of health regen saves the sorc from dieing to 2 light attacks. The sorc could even use dark exchange for a burst heal (with streak and LoS easy doable if you are on your bow bar)

Miswar

Getting annoyed with nerf mag sorcs stuff. Yes, you can kill them on PvP. There is no such myth as sorcs that can't be killed.

If you are having problems killing it is down to your skill level as player. Simple as that.

This relating to PvP and have played a lot as sorc and as non sorc.

Adjust other things that are relevant and stop making classes unplayable.

Sugaroverdose

Miswar wrote: »

Getting annoyed with nerf mag sorcs stuff. Yes, you can kill them on PvP. There is no such myth as sorcs that can't be killed.

If you are having problems killing it is down to your skill level as player. Simple as that.

This relating to PvP and have played a lot as sorc and as non sorc.

Adjust other things that are relevant and stop making classes unplayable.

Anyone can be killed, nerfsorc is about Sustain+Defence+Offence are all maxed out for class while others forced to compromise.

Aumintor

The developers should just buff the other classes instead of nerfing everything to the ground. Increase the damage output in general might help. Adding some abilities and morphs which are specialised in combating wards would help as well.

pieratsos

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Pirate will no longer be an issue next patch for burst builds (it won´t loose much of it´s power against magica dot builds though).

If you´re fighting vamp sorcs - ever considered daedric dmg enchants? Anyone who is vamp and uses pirate is royally *** when you have shieldbreaker. There is no coming back from that.

I´m a sorc myself most of the time. I solo frequently. I can kill most other sorcs without problem even if they use harness and pirate skeleton in 1vX situations (i usually go for the sorc first to establish dominance).
I don´t use harness or dampen magica myself. I don´t use pirate skeleton.
I´m runnin an infused daedric dmg glyph on my backbar - invaluable.

What you want against a sorc is either a high dmg dw 2h setup or a 2h bow setup with shieldbreaker on bow bar.
Also you don´t want to lightattack weave. It´s for sustained dps - any burst should always start with a full heavy of 2h or dw.
Apply dots (dw and or 2h bleed, PI or bloodcraze) heavyattack=>incap=>will/supriseattack/finisher.
Shadow mundus should at the moment be the natural choice for stam builds imo.

I forgot to mention the heavy attack but still even if I go full burst I have to wait for the curse to explode before I do anything because you die in MA way to easily.
The damage difference for stam builds is marginal with vamp glyph or disease damage ~700-1k
Shieldbreaker simply is useless, I really don't understand why anyone would use it against magsorc. You need 10 seconds with no heals for the sorc to kill it with shieldbreaker only. Any sorc with a small heal can ignore shieldbreaker at any time.
Shieldbreaker is only useful if you outnumber the sorc and that is hard in 1vX

DW is good against sorc but you lack reliable burst heal with it on a stamnb if you don't play DW/2h but then you lose range pressure and one of the best skill lines for pvp ( poison injection, major expedition, bow heavy attack)

I´ll flatout say: Bow is seriously overrated.
NBs that give me trouble are 2h dw.

Shieldbreaker is not meant to be spammed. You burst the sorc (where pirate should procc) and when you get them into low health you bowswap and execute them through shields.

I have to disagree bow is such an awesome weapon in PvP against almost any build. It helps pressuring a sorc who's camping in his mines until you are ready to burst, it is so good as an escape tool for stamnb as one of your main defences give you major expedition.

A good sorc won't die to Shieldbreaker, if you burst him he'll go defensive and starts to streak and Los you and even if you reduce the sorcs health to 4k you have to hit 3 light attacks to kill the sorc as you only deal 2075 flat damage.
One tick of health regen saves the sorc from dieing to 2 light attacks. The sorc could even use dark exchange for a burst heal (with streak and LoS easy doable if you are on your bow bar)

I can only reflect on my personal experience. I don´t feel pressured at all by a bow nb unless they have shieldbreaker.

With shieldbreaker against a sorc you have to plan the fight. You kite away from los so that they can´t actually hide and outheal it. Especially as vamp and with pirate skeleton there is nothing that will save a sorc unless they have a direct heal slotted.

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

If shields were to scale of maxhealth you´d have to give sorcs the same means of selfhealing available to magica nightblades, magica templars and dks.

Harness IS the problem about sorc shieldstacking because the resources return proccs also when hardened ward is damaged basically guaranteeing a full return on every harness cast - which is why as a magica character you can not drive a sorc out of resources ever.

Also did you read the post? I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HARNESS. It just should not stack with hardened ward. Use hardened or harness. Done. Shieldstacking fixed because there is no stacking anymore.

If we were to delve deeper into the topic the real problem is vampirism + minor+major protection + healing ward + another shield. But i guess that´s such a rare case to happen that it´s not thaaat problematic.

Tbh 80% I fight in cyro are vamps, with desto/ resto and pirate Skeleton. There is no way I can kill a sorc with this setup on my stamnb if I fight the sorc alone. And as a stamnb I can stack lots of burst easily. The maximum burst i can utilize in ~2 sec is incap, assassin's will and surprise attack with light attack weaving. Even when the sorc is hit by everything and he had full shields with pirate Skeleton the sorc will be at ~ 25% health left and then i have no chance to kill this sorc until he is back at 100% because with healing ward and ward i need another 26k burst to kill the sorc and that is something which is almost impossible to do without ult and assassin's will.
Something really has to change, if you try to 1vX and there is one of these sorcs in the X you have no chance to win this fight

Pirate will no longer be an issue next patch for burst builds (it won´t loose much of it´s power against magica dot builds though).

If you´re fighting vamp sorcs - ever considered daedric dmg enchants? Anyone who is vamp and uses pirate is royally *** when you have shieldbreaker. There is no coming back from that.

I´m a sorc myself most of the time. I solo frequently. I can kill most other sorcs without problem even if they use harness and pirate skeleton in 1vX situations (i usually go for the sorc first to establish dominance).
I don´t use harness or dampen magica myself. I don´t use pirate skeleton.
I´m runnin an infused daedric dmg glyph on my backbar - invaluable.

What you want against a sorc is either a high dmg dw 2h setup or a 2h bow setup with shieldbreaker on bow bar.
Also you don´t want to lightattack weave. It´s for sustained dps - any burst should always start with a full heavy of 2h or dw.
Apply dots (dw and or 2h bleed, PI or bloodcraze) heavyattack=>incap=>will/supriseattack/finisher.
Shadow mundus should at the moment be the natural choice for stam builds imo.

I forgot to mention the heavy attack but still even if I go full burst I have to wait for the curse to explode before I do anything because you die in MA way to easily.
The damage difference for stam builds is marginal with vamp glyph or disease damage ~700-1k
Shieldbreaker simply is useless, I really don't understand why anyone would use it against magsorc. You need 10 seconds with no heals for the sorc to kill it with shieldbreaker only. Any sorc with a small heal can ignore shieldbreaker at any time.
Shieldbreaker is only useful if you outnumber the sorc and that is hard in 1vX

DW is good against sorc but you lack reliable burst heal with it on a stamnb if you don't play DW/2h but then you lose range pressure and one of the best skill lines for pvp ( poison injection, major expedition, bow heavy attack)

I´ll flatout say: Bow is seriously overrated.
NBs that give me trouble are 2h dw.

Shieldbreaker is not meant to be spammed. You burst the sorc (where pirate should procc) and when you get them into low health you bowswap and execute them through shields.

I have to disagree bow is such an awesome weapon in PvP against almost any build. It helps pressuring a sorc who's camping in his mines until you are ready to burst, it is so good as an escape tool for stamnb as one of your main defences give you major expedition.

A good sorc won't die to Shieldbreaker, if you burst him he'll go defensive and starts to streak and Los you and even if you reduce the sorcs health to 4k you have to hit 3 light attacks to kill the sorc as you only deal 2075 flat damage.
One tick of health regen saves the sorc from dieing to 2 light attacks. The sorc could even use dark exchange for a burst heal (with streak and LoS easy doable if you are on your bow bar)

I can only reflect on my personal experience. I don´t feel pressured at all by a bow nb unless they have shieldbreaker.

With shieldbreaker against a sorc you have to plan the fight. You kite away from los so that they can´t actually hide and outheal it. Especially as vamp and with pirate skeleton there is nothing that will save a sorc unless they have a direct heal slotted.

I think the difference between us is that you as a sorc feel the pressure directly as your shields are simply ignored and your health is damaged, as a nb I can't really tell if it really pressures a sorc as they often don't react differently from a normal burst attempt of mine so the psychological factor of shieldbreaker is way better than its actual effect.
That's a bit like a beam at full health, it doesn't really damages you but in my case my blood pressure rises as I know that once my health decreases to 35% I'm dead for sure.

Edziu

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

pieratsos

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

Edziu

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

I have just compared main nb defense which is easy to screw up to sorc defense which is stackable with light armor shield making it the best possible defense in game outside perm block tank for zergs to only tank, slow them

pieratsos

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

I have just compared main nb defense which is easy to screw up to sorc defense which is stackable with light armor shield making it the best possible defense in game outside perm block tank for zergs to only tank, slow them

And i said shieldstacking is the problem. So fix shieldstacking. Harness should not stack with hardened. You dont destroy hardened and make it useless. Thats stupid.

Vosital

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

I have just compared main nb defense which is easy to screw up to sorc defense which is stackable with light armor shield making it the best possible defense in game outside perm block tank for zergs to only tank, slow them

And i said shieldstacking is the problem. So fix shieldstacking. Harness should not stack with hardened. You dont destroy hardened and make it useless. Thats stupid.

They also really need to nerf the magika return from Harness too. It gives back basically all magika back when you're wearing light.

pieratsos

Vosital wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

I have just compared main nb defense which is easy to screw up to sorc defense which is stackable with light armor shield making it the best possible defense in game outside perm block tank for zergs to only tank, slow them

And i said shieldstacking is the problem. So fix shieldstacking. Harness should not stack with hardened. You dont destroy hardened and make it useless. Thats stupid.

They also really need to nerf the magika return from Harness too. It gives back basically all magika back when you're wearing light.

Fine. Nerf that too. But leave hardened ward alone. Its sorc's only viable defence

Derra

Vosital wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

I have just compared main nb defense which is easy to screw up to sorc defense which is stackable with light armor shield making it the best possible defense in game outside perm block tank for zergs to only tank, slow them

And i said shieldstacking is the problem. So fix shieldstacking. Harness should not stack with hardened. You dont destroy hardened and make it useless. Thats stupid.

They also really need to nerf the magika return from Harness too. It gives back basically all magika back when you're wearing light.

I think it´s the intentional design of harness to refund it´s magica cost.
It´s only problematic on high magica sorc builds because in that scenario harness refunds way more than it´s original cost.

MurderMostFoul

Twohothardware wrote: »

That would be a good change to shields in general making them scale off max health instead of Magicka. Magicka increases damage, you should not be able to increase survivability with the same stat that increases damage because then you only focus on maxing that one stat. Either that or give Stamina classes like DK a Stamina scaled Igneous shield.

Another consideration as to why shields scaling off of Magicka is somewhat overpowered in PvP:

Because shields can't be crit, there is no point to having impenetrable gear while shield stacking. So, while other classes have to slot impen, shield stacking sorcs are free to use traits that can boost their offense, further widening the gap between them and other classes.

pieratsos

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

That would be a good change to shields in general making them scale off max health instead of Magicka. Magicka increases damage, you should not be able to increase survivability with the same stat that increases damage because then you only focus on maxing that one stat. Either that or give Stamina classes like DK a Stamina scaled Igneous shield.

Another consideration as to why shields scaling off of Magicka is somewhat overpowered in PvP:

Because shields can't be crit, there is no point to having impenetrable gear while shield stacking. So, while other classes have to slot impen, shield stacking sorcs are free to use traits that can boost their offense, further widening the gap between them and other classes.

Sorcs use impen too. The second ur shields drop and they will drop, u will die if u dont have impen.

You cant make hardened ward scaling of max hp. Just look at dragons blood. As long as it was scaling of max hp it was useless and people were raging for years because DKs didnt have an on demand self heal even tho the class was designed with high self healing. And you want to do the exact same thing by making shields useless on a class that is designed around shielding as a main defence. Wow. Im speechless.

If people start using their brain a bit before posting and actually have a clue about what they are talking it would be nice.

Ashamray

Derra wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

@Derra You are WRONG about harness being the problem with Sorcs. It's ward that allows Sorcs, AND ONLY Sorcs to stack 2 damage shields. Is harness a problem on Magblades or Magicka Templar or Magicka DK???.......NO!

If Ward and all its morphs scaled off max health like Blazing and Igneous Sorcs would be on an even playing field when it came to shields. Instead Ward gives Sorcs the incentive to dump all their attribute points into maxing out Magicka because they get tankiness, large resource pools and more damage.

Don't go after a skill all classes have access to just to avoid what the real problem with shield stacking when its within the Sorc skill line.

So you want to make sorc's only viable defence useless because harness can stack with ward. Yeah that obviously makes a lot of sense.

at all now if you can look just drink det potion or spam curse or just any aoe... on nb and his main defense (cloak) is just not working, nb is deprived his main defence skill while sorc will be able just use his shield like any other mag class

(on the other way now I see on cyro how 80% of mag nb have dropped cloak for this shield from light armora because it always work and is guaranteed defense haha)

NBs are struggling in solo small scale cause their main defence is kiting and avoiding dmg which is hard countered by the broken snares and roots. So you fix the stupid roots and snares so nightblades can utilize their main defence. You dont destroy the defences of other classes so they are all screwed. Thats common sense.

I have just compared main nb defense which is easy to screw up to sorc defense which is stackable with light armor shield making it the best possible defense in game outside perm block tank for zergs to only tank, slow them

And i said shieldstacking is the problem. So fix shieldstacking. Harness should not stack with hardened. You dont destroy hardened and make it useless. Thats stupid.

They also really need to nerf the magika return from Harness too. It gives back basically all magika back when you're wearing light.

I think it´s the intentional design of harness to refund it´s magica cost.
It´s only problematic on high magica sorc builds because in that scenario harness refunds way more than it´s original cost.

Just visited PTS and log in on my Sorc. Harness there costs 3900 magicka, 1300 (I have 42k magicka) is a value per hit up to 3 times. This value 30% stronger due to 5 LA. So ~1700x3 = 5100 is a pretty common scenario. Still too high, in my opinion.