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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Sorcs and Favoritism
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So now for the fun part: bring me some real evidence about how Sorc is overperforming. Like real evidence. Backed up with math and constructive un-biased reasoning.
1. There's this thing called the PTS. You can test PvP with dueling and Battlegrounds, although we can't talk about the latter. Regardless, it is very clear that this class is overperforming and way too strong. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. There is no reason not to play a Mag Sorc right now.
2. Even if you're too lazy to test, just use common sense. Sorcs are already insane in Homestead. Every other class is getting gutted. Meanwhile, Sorcs and Shields remain untouched. What did you expect to happen?
Yeah. That's not evidence.
If you want we'll hop onto the PTS and test stuff together, and I'll show you just how wrong you are.
How are Sorcs insane in Homestead? Bring me evidence!@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dude above is trying to say that sorcs are fine cause they run out of magicka fast on the pts while stacking shields. Uhm hello sorcs aren't the only ones stacking shields, but they are THE ONLY shieldstacker that didn't get class specific nerfs. Come again, tell my magblade how bad your shield stacking sustain is.
@Zarrakon
But no really, at this point this becomes a problem with the actual changes than with the classes, and we're just throwing *** at each other. No nerfs should negate like 80% of the playstyles and builds in a game that is bragging about the freedom to create your own build.
Omg. Nightblade has soooo much better in combat sustain.
Please, show me a magicka Sorc who uses dark conversion in combat, or at all. It's only the stamina crowd who can afford to use it.
No magicka Sorc will take the risk of casting this inside of combat (unless you are a notorious line of sight breaker or when you can stand safely in the back), resulting in mag sorc having the WORST sustain of all class, the worst by far. Dark conversion is just so risky to use as a mag sorc, it's not wise.
Sorcerer has no sustain utility at all. Our only sustain is locked behind a 1 second cast, while all other classes get their sustain rather passively while using their regular stuff. It's so ridiculous.
LOL I can't even
Exactly, you can't.
Try using dark conversion against me as a magicka Sorcerer. You will not get it off and then you'll see your "superior and infinite" sustain-
Your comments are honestly beyond ridiculous. I don't take you seriously.
Ah so you say that sacrifising your precious stamina to restore some magicka with a 1 second cast is convenient ? When focus by enemies who only need to interrupt you ? You should take it very seriously. I, unlike you, do play mag sorc all the time and I know that this spell is not usable during combat. You don't have the stam nor the safety to use it.
YUP THOSE RESOURCES PLUS HEAL ON DEMAND SOOOOOOOOOO INCONVENIENT. GAWD GUYS DO I REALLY NEED TO USE AN ABILITY WHEN PLAYING? VERY UNFAIR! SAD!
For a class that needs to be so cautious with their stamina, yes, it definately is.
Nightblades activate siphoning and are good to go and receive it all passively, Dks get ressource just by using their regular shield and ults and templar has rune focus and radiant aura+ morphs.
Only Sorc has its ressources locked behind a 1 second cast. I too think the stamina version of dark exchange is too easy to use and with no risk. Because magicka is not needed for a stam Sorc to survive and they have shuffle which can dodge bashes and interrupt attacks. But the magicka version is a complete different story, not compareable to dark deal easy mode.
What syphoning? That that restores 385 magicka only in basic attacks?
[*]Siphoning- Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now converts the ability into a Stamina ability and causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Stamina based on your character level.
- Siphoning Attacks (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to also restore Magicka based on your character level.
- Siphoning Strikes:
- This ability now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Health instead of Magicka or Stamina.
- Increased the duration of this ability and its morphs to 20 seconds from 15 seconds.
Developer Comments:This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.
What dks Shields? Those that don't provide mending if they're not active? what ults? those that restore a fixed amount of magicka, stamina and health now? What helping hands? A skill that restore less stam if you have a stam pool higher than 20k?
[*]Earthen Heart- Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.
- Helping Hands: This passive ability now restores Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Stamina.
Developer Comments:This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 19,800 and a reduction if it is above.
- Igneous Shield (Obsidian Shield morph): The Major Mending buff granted by this morph is now tied to your own damage shield. If the damage shield is removed, the Major Mending bonus will also be removed.
Developer Comment:Major Mending is an extremely potent buff category for healing. The ease at which you are able to maintain it creates a system where only extreme damage can kill you because your health bar rapidly swings from near-empty to full. Adjusting the uptime on Igneous Shield’s Major Mending means you will need to think more tactically about when to use your healing abilities while also giving enemies counterplay towards stopping them.
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And you dare to say DKs and NBs have better resource management than sorcs? The class tha can pop a shield to heal and recover resources in ONE skill?
Maybe on live they can... but from now on, resource management is a sorc department thanks to your beloved @Wroebel
Which is a lot O.o
385 magicka per base attack is so huge. If I had this as a Sorc, I would never need to worry about regen again.
And it makes perfect sense, that you gain no major mending while that shield is not active. Why would you anyway ?
Actually, I thought it was like that all the time. I didn't know that major mending actually lingers on you even when the shield is gone. It should have never been this way in the first place.
385 magicka on a skill that cost 2.8K during 20 secs, are you kidding me? you need to connect 7 light attacks to recover the cost... SEVEN, SIETE, SIEBEN, 7, VII.
how many LA can you connect consecutively in live during 20 secs?
Cost reduction? Ok, if you are able to reduce the base cost to 1700 magicka, you need 4 LA, the same 4 LA you need to proc merciless. You know why people don't use that skill on PvP? Because it is too hard to connect those 4 LA. If you are weaving maybe you can connect, but weaving implies using your magicka pool, so the return is neglectable.
Then you have shields associated to major mending. You know how strong is a shield for a stam or mag DK? les than 2 K because they escalate on Health. any proc attack brings down that shield so you are forced to spam it. So you are killing DK healer, and stam DK, to get a decen heal needs to slot GDB (for the stam return) and vigor to get a decent heal (because you know, vigor cost has been raised). 2 heals just to make 1 work.
Then we have sorcs, who can get 4 K stam in 1 sec. Spam the skill 3 times and you get a decent pool. Problems with stam or magicka after doing that? You just need a pot to recover half the pool (even those pots you can buy with AP are enough)
3secs, 12k stam/magicka...
I have never seen a Nightblade who doesn't use merciless resolve, not a single one. Be it stam or mag. And there is also no easier way to obtain a permanent minor berserk.
The buffs are good, yes, but the proc is the worst proc in this game. Dodgeable while building it, dodgeable once you have it active and unreliable when firing. If you get the proc within the first 4 secs AND you fire it, you lose the buff, which is pointless.
When people say NBs is the worst class in this game, it's because it is... and even with that in mind, ZoS keeps on nerfing it. Now sap tank and stamblade are put in the same box with mageblade: useless... (stamblade has no way to turn stam into magicka, so no cloak and no fear for stamblade, unless they get the 7 LA after using a 2.7k skill).
The easiest solution for any NB in this game is to make a mag or stam sorc, or quit playing. There's no way a NB is gonna kill a sorc now... currently it is hard, but from Morrowind on, it will be impossible (maybe some proctard ganker each full moon)Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique3 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You mean aside from Battle Roar, Mountain's Blessing, Helping Hands, and Elder Dragon?Ok since you really dont understand why lets list the passives.
1.) Capacitor- Increases the Vestige's Magicka regeneration by 5%.
2.) Expert Mage- Reduces the cost of Storm Calling spells by 5%.
3.) Unholy Knowledge- Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs by 3%.
4.) Rebate- Player receives 10% max Magicka when one their summoned creatures is killed.
5.) Reduces the cost of Ultimate skills by 8%.
6.) Daderic Protection- Increases the Vestige's Health regeneration rate by 10% with any Summoning skill slotted.
7.) Implosion- OP Plain and simple(Not a resource one but extermely OP)
So again Please list all the DK sustain Passive! They touch every other classes passives but leave all these sorc passives completely untouched???? WHY ZOS WHY????
Well, I suppose there are none, then.
Can you show me which Sorc passives returned a percentage of resource(s) other than Blood Magic?
Perhaps that's why DK passives got changed to flat rate and Sorc passives got changed from %...well, I guess most of those were already flat rate?
Care to compare the passives that add snares, mitigation, additional damage? Care to compare the skills that add damage, mitigation, healing, regen, or enemy debuffs? How about the Sorc Ult that basically makes incoming damage null and void for 9 seconds?
You got cost reductions on two different spells on DK. I don't recall any Sorc threads whining "Why didn't we get any reductions? *sadface* "
The classes are built differently for different purposes - always have been. WTF is your point?
As indicated above, Sorcs had only one % based return in Blood Magic, so short of stacking Health (which no Sorc does), there were no % based return passives to change to flat rate. They were already there.But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.
You act as if you have no useful skills and no useful passives. You're pissed because you lost your OP % based returns. Those don't have, nor have ever had, anything to do with Sorcs.
Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 27, 2017 4:00PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You mean aside from Battle Roar, Mountain's Blessing, Helping Hands, and Elder Dragon?Ok since you really dont understand why lets list the passives.
1.) Capacitor- Increases the Vestige's Magicka regeneration by 5%.
2.) Expert Mage- Reduces the cost of Storm Calling spells by 5%.
3.) Unholy Knowledge- Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs by 3%.
4.) Rebate- Player receives 10% max Magicka when one their summoned creatures is killed.
5.) Reduces the cost of Ultimate skills by 8%.
6.) Daderic Protection- Increases the Vestige's Health regeneration rate by 10% with any Summoning skill slotted.
7.) Implosion- OP Plain and simple(Not a resource one but extermely OP)
So again Please list all the DK sustain Passive! They touch every other classes passives but leave all these sorc passives completely untouched???? WHY ZOS WHY????
Well, I suppose there are none, then.
Can you show me which Sorc passives returned a percentage of resource(s) other than Blood Magic?
Perhaps that's why DK passives got changed to flat rate and Sorc passives got changed from %...well, I guess most of those were already flat rate?
Care to compare the passives that add snares, mitigation, additional damage? Care to compare the skills that add damage, mitigation, healing, regen, or enemy debuffs? How about the Sorc Ult that basically makes incoming damage null and void for 9 seconds?
You got cost reductions on two different spells on DK. I don't recall any Sorc threads whining "Why didn't we get any reductions? *sadface* "
The classes are built differently for different purposes - always have been. WTF is your point?
As indicated above, Sorcs had only one % based return in Blood Magic, so short of stacking Health (which no Sorc does), there were no % based return passives to change to flat rate. They were already there.But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.
You act as if you have no useful skills and no useful passives. You're pissed because you lost your OP % based returns. Those have, nor have ever had, anything to do with Sorcs.
DId you just list Elder Dragon as one of DK's sustain passives?Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT6 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.
Read my previous comments in this thread, will you? I'm pretty sure your arguments are much worse than mine.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so noInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Considering it gives Health Recovery? Yes, I most certainly did.
DId you just list Elder Dragon as one of DK's sustain passives?
Kinda falls right in line with #6 on Drish's Sorc list, I would say!Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 27, 2017 4:09PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
Sorcs were getting curse NERFED, they cried and they BUFFED CURSE INSTEAD OF NERFING!!!
Umm what about the millions of patch they gutted everyother class. The last time the gutted sorc they became the top PVE AND PVP DPS..
You are crazy my friend.
The change to haunting curse is literally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I still reapply curse every 3.5 seconds and the times that the echo is beneficial is so miniscule. It's hardly a buff. Meanwhile, DKs, Templars, and Nightblades got functional buffs that actually improved the class.
I am not at all complaining about the state of sorc, and I didn't cry when we didn't get any buffs last cycle. My issue is that the rhetoric on the forums is blown way out of proportion, because I fight against sorcs all the time and never struggle or feel an imbalance. The people that are whining right now do so because either:
A.) they have no idea how to fight sorcs and its a l2p issue
B.) They are just salty that sorcs aren't seeing nerfs and are on this crusade out of a petty agenda rather than logical and credible balance concerns.
Both of which are hella lame reasons to make new nerf sorcs threads every single god damn day.
3 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so no
Says the guy who doesn't have any
Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.Edited by Izaki on April 27, 2017 4:17PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
Sorcs were getting curse NERFED, they cried and they BUFFED CURSE INSTEAD OF NERFING!!!
Umm what about the millions of patch they gutted everyother class. The last time the gutted sorc they became the top PVE AND PVP DPS..
You are crazy my friend.
The change to haunting curse is literally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I still reapply curse every 3.5 seconds and the times that the echo is beneficial is so miniscule. It's hardly a buff. Meanwhile, DKs, Templars, and Nightblades got functional buffs that actually improved the class.
I am not at all complaining about the state of sorc, and I didn't cry when we didn't get any buffs last cycle. My issue is that the rhetoric on the forums is blown way out of proportion, because I fight against sorcs all the time and never struggle or feel an imbalance. The people that are whining right now do so because either:
A.) they have no idea how to fight sorcs and its a l2p issue
B.) They are just salty that sorcs aren't seeing nerfs and are on this crusade out of a petty agenda rather than logical and credible balance concerns.
Both of which are hella lame reasons to make new nerf sorcs threads every single god damn day.
I like how when a legitimate sorc buff doesn't fit your narrative you call it "irrelevant"Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT7 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so no
Says the guy who doesn't have any
Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm not good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.
I think you need to L2P the other classes and then we can talk.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
Sorcs were getting curse NERFED, they cried and they BUFFED CURSE INSTEAD OF NERFING!!!
Umm what about the millions of patch they gutted everyother class. The last time the gutted sorc they became the top PVE AND PVP DPS..
You are crazy my friend.
The change to haunting curse is literally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I still reapply curse every 3.5 seconds and the times that the echo is beneficial is so miniscule. It's hardly a buff. Meanwhile, DKs, Templars, and Nightblades got functional buffs that actually improved the class.
I am not at all complaining about the state of sorc, and I didn't cry when we didn't get any buffs last cycle. My issue is that the rhetoric on the forums is blown way out of proportion, because I fight against sorcs all the time and never struggle or feel an imbalance. The people that are whining right now do so because either:
A.) they have no idea how to fight sorcs and its a l2p issue
B.) They are just salty that sorcs aren't seeing nerfs and are on this crusade out of a petty agenda rather than logical and credible balance concerns.
Both of which are hella lame reasons to make new nerf sorcs threads every single god damn day.
I like how when a legitimate sorc buff doesn't fit your narrative you call it "irrelevant"
Because it's not relevant. Any pro Sorc went hohum on the curse, only noobs don't recast at 3.5Edited by Waffennacht on April 27, 2017 4:11PM0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
Sorcs were getting curse NERFED, they cried and they BUFFED CURSE INSTEAD OF NERFING!!!
Umm what about the millions of patch they gutted everyother class. The last time the gutted sorc they became the top PVE AND PVP DPS..
You are crazy my friend.
The change to haunting curse is literally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I still reapply curse every 3.5 seconds and the times that the echo is beneficial is so miniscule. It's hardly a buff. Meanwhile, DKs, Templars, and Nightblades got functional buffs that actually improved the class.
I am not at all complaining about the state of sorc, and I didn't cry when we didn't get any buffs last cycle. My issue is that the rhetoric on the forums is blown way out of proportion, because I fight against sorcs all the time and never struggle or feel an imbalance. The people that are whining right now do so because either:
A.) they have no idea how to fight sorcs and its a l2p issue
B.) They are just salty that sorcs aren't seeing nerfs and are on this crusade out of a petty agenda rather than logical and credible balance concerns.
Both of which are hella lame reasons to make new nerf sorcs threads every single god damn day.
I like how when a legitimate sorc buff doesn't fit your narrative you call it "irrelevant"
NBs buff? which one? The one that gives major ward and major resolve on the same line there's the NB n°1 spammable? Lol
Or maybe the cost increase in strife
Or the resource return reduction in siphoning
or the "fix" to cloak
There's no such thing as a NB buff, it has never been since TG (or even before that)
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
Sorcs were getting curse NERFED, they cried and they BUFFED CURSE INSTEAD OF NERFING!!!
Umm what about the millions of patch they gutted everyother class. The last time the gutted sorc they became the top PVE AND PVP DPS..
You are crazy my friend.
The change to haunting curse is literally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I still reapply curse every 3.5 seconds and the times that the echo is beneficial is so miniscule. It's hardly a buff. Meanwhile, DKs, Templars, and Nightblades got functional buffs that actually improved the class.
I am not at all complaining about the state of sorc, and I didn't cry when we didn't get any buffs last cycle. My issue is that the rhetoric on the forums is blown way out of proportion, because I fight against sorcs all the time and never struggle or feel an imbalance. The people that are whining right now do so because either:
A.) they have no idea how to fight sorcs and its a l2p issue
B.) They are just salty that sorcs aren't seeing nerfs and are on this crusade out of a petty agenda rather than logical and credible balance concerns.
Both of which are hella lame reasons to make new nerf sorcs threads every single god damn day.
I like how when a legitimate sorc buff doesn't fit your narrative you call it "irrelevant"
Because it's not relevant. Any pro Sorc went hohum on the curse, only noobs don't recast at 3.5
A buff is a buff, even if you choose to recast it. If you don't, it's still a free curse. I'll tell you what, give me an after heal on Coagulating Blood after 10 seconds. I might rarely use it because I need to heal so often. But I'd sure as hell still consider that a "relevant" buff.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT6 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so no
Says the guy who doesn't have any
Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm not good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.
I think you need to L2P the other classes and then we can talk.
I think you didn't understand my comment. I'm not the one whining for Sorc nerfs, because I'm good enough to go up against a Sorc.
I see 3 classes in your sig. I main a stamblade, play Stamplar, MagDK and Stam Sorc actively and lets just say that I'm near top on every trial leaderboards on my MagSorc (4th being the lowest). So yeah, I can play other classes and Sorc isn't even my main. I also have the other specs for every class, including Tank and Healer. So yeah, between us two, I think you're the one with a L2P issue.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so no
Says the guy who doesn't have any
Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm not good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.
I think you need to L2P the other classes and then we can talk.
I think you didn't understand my comment. I'm not the one whining for Sorc nerfs, because I'm good enough to go up against a Sorc.
I see 3 classes in your sig. I main a stamblade, play Stamplar, MagDK and Stam Sorc actively and lets just say that I'm near top on every trial leaderboards on my MagSorc (4th being the lowest). So yeah, I can play other classes and Sorc isn't even my main. I also have the other specs for every class, including Tank and Healer. So yeah, between us two, I think you're the one with a L2P issue.
Not quite. I'm currently solo on my MagSorc in Cyro and it's easy mode compared to the other classes (can't speak for Stamblade, though, as I don't play one). This isn't bias. This isn't me having an agenda other than wanting balance. This is irrefutable fact plain and simple that MagSorc is easier and more effective to play than, say, mDK. If you disagree, I challenge you to go solo on a mDK for a bit.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT9 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like how when a legitimate sorc buff doesn't fit your narrative you call it "irrelevant"
It's irrelevant because I get no functionality out of it. Yes, technically it is a 'buff'. But its not a buff in the way that backlash, fire leap, coag blood, 5% damage to whip, improved shadowy path, or ranged impale are buffs.
The curse 'buff' was literally intended to help inept sorcs use the skill more easily, not improve the power of the class . It was a quality of life change for bad sorcs, not a true buff.
So I stand by my point that every class got functional buffs besides sorc last patch, which only saw a nerf to overload. So its cool if everyone gets a nerf but sorcs this time around far as I care.1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like how when a legitimate sorc buff doesn't fit your narrative you call it "irrelevant"
It's irrelevant because I get no functionality out of it. Yes, technically it is a 'buff'. But its not a buff in the way that backlash, fire leap, coag blood, 5% damage to whip, improved shadowy path, or ranged impale are buffs.
The curse 'buff' was literally intended to help inept sorcs use the skill more easily, not improve the power of the class . It was a quality of life change for bad sorcs, not a true buff.
So I stand by my point that every class got functional buffs besides sorc last patch, which only saw a nerf to overload. So its cool if everyone gets a nerf but sorcs this time around far as I care.
Like I said, it's funny how you call buff irrelevant to fit your narrative. Buffs are buffs. Some are more potent than others. But a buff is a buff.
To put that in perspective; I agree that Fire Leap is a buff. But I don't get much functionality out of it because Shooting Star is still far superior for mDK burst. I nevertheless agree that it is a buff however because I'm a reasonable person. This thread wouldn't have derailed like it did if Sorcs could be reasonable. But apparently you guys can't be.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT7 -
Vosital✭✭✭✭@IzakiBrotherSs
Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:
https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s
3 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so no
Says the guy who doesn't have any
Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm not good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.
I think you need to L2P the other classes and then we can talk.
I think you didn't understand my comment. I'm not the one whining for Sorc nerfs, because I'm good enough to go up against a Sorc.
I see 3 classes in your sig. I main a stamblade, play Stamplar, MagDK and Stam Sorc actively and lets just say that I'm near top on every trial leaderboards on my MagSorc (4th being the lowest). So yeah, I can play other classes and Sorc isn't even my main. I also have the other specs for every class, including Tank and Healer. So yeah, between us two, I think you're the one with a L2P issue.
Not quite. I'm currently solo on my MagSorc in Cyro and it's easy mode compared to the other classes (can't speak for Stamblade, though, as I don't play one). This isn't bias. This isn't me having an agenda other than wanting balance. This is irrefutable fact plain and simple that MagSorc is easier and more effective to play than, say, mDK. If you disagree, I challenge you to go solo on a mDK for a bit.
I agree. But at this point, I'm wondering why are people prioritizing getting Sorcs nerfed instead of getting their own class buffed?
There isn't much that makes Sorc easier than other classes, aside from the fact that you have complete freedom of range. Its easy to Sorc moderately well. I mean I see lots of people rolling Sorcs for trials and then wonder why their DPS is absolute trash. Its not that much of a difference with PvP. I think some classes are obviously going to be better than others for certain PvP playstyles. Its always going to be that way, even if the game is balanced, because some classes have tools that others don't, and that's what makes classes unique, not the color of the animations. IMO.
Stamblade is better in my opinion in open world due to the simple fact of being able to purge snares as well as have Shadow Image and Cloak for escaping. Not saying they are reliable escape mechanisms, but there kinda there and work sometimes.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@IzakiBrotherSs
Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s
I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
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Like I said, it's funny how you call buff irrelevant to fit your narrative. Buffs are buffs. Some are more potent than others. But a buff is a buff.
To put that in perspective; I agree that Fire Leap is a buff. But I don't get much functionality out of it because Shooting Star is still far superior for mDK burst. I nevertheless agree that it is a buff however because I'm a reasonable person. This thread wouldn't have derailed like it did if Sorcs could be reasonable. But apparently you guys can't be.
Highly debatable whether meteor or leap is better. Theres no debate that the standard application of curse is superior to utilizing the echo. Bad argument.
If you look at how much people are frothing at the mouth and some of the demands they are making for nerfs, I don't think its sorcs that are being the unreasonable ones here. People are being driven by a vandetta, not logic or true understanding of balance right now.
The only problem with the class is that people would rather cry for nerfs to it than learn how to counter it. Im sorry, you cant fix incompetence with balance changes. Sorcs are perfectly fine if you know how to play against em. But if you don't, then ya I totally get the rabid hatred.Edited by CyrusArya on April 27, 2017 4:37PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
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Like I said, it's funny how you call buff irrelevant to fit your narrative. Buffs are buffs. Some are more potent than others. But a buff is a buff.
To put that in perspective; I agree that Fire Leap is a buff. But I don't get much functionality out of it because Shooting Star is still far superior for mDK burst. I nevertheless agree that it is a buff however because I'm a reasonable person. This thread wouldn't have derailed like it did if Sorcs could be reasonable. But apparently you guys can't be.
Highly debatable whether meteor or leap is better. Theres no debate that the standard application of curse is superior to utilizing the echo. Bad argument.
If you look at how much people are frothing at the mouth and some of the demands they are making for nerfs, I don't think its sorcs that are being the unreasonable ones here. People are being dirven by a vandetta, not logic or true understanding of balance right now.The only problem with the class is that people would rather cry for nerfs to it than learn how to counter it. Im sorry, you cant fix incompetence with balance changes.
@Kilandros ^ He isn't wrong you know. Especially if we're talking about this thread specifically.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Vosital✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »@IzakiBrotherSs
Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s
I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.
I'll 1v1 you. I'll play Mag Sorc, you can play whatever you want. We can duel however many times you want. 50 times? You won't win a single one unless I DC or some shenanigans. Ok? Will that be enough evidence for you, your honor?2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »@IzakiBrotherSs
Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s
I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.
I'll 1v1 you. I'll play Mag Sorc, you can play whatever you want. We can duel however many times you want. 50 times? You won't win a single one unless I DC or some shenanigans. Ok? Will that be enough evidence for you, your honor?
Sure let's 1v1.
But no that's not enough evidence because its based on only 2 players. I'm asking for actual arguments. Things that show that mathematically Sorc is better than other classes. Hell, even if its not maths, it can just be reasoning. Ever taken philosophy or law classes? You know the reasoning process? Those reasoning processes apply to any reasoning. Show me yours.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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Like I said, it's funny how you call buff irrelevant to fit your narrative. Buffs are buffs. Some are more potent than others. But a buff is a buff.
To put that in perspective; I agree that Fire Leap is a buff. But I don't get much functionality out of it because Shooting Star is still far superior for mDK burst. I nevertheless agree that it is a buff however because I'm a reasonable person. This thread wouldn't have derailed like it did if Sorcs could be reasonable. But apparently you guys can't be.
Highly debatable whether meteor or leap is better. Theres no debate that the standard application of curse is superior to utilizing the echo. Bad argument.
If you look at how much people are frothing at the mouth and some of the demands they are making for nerfs, I don't think its sorcs that are being the unreasonable ones here. People are being driven by a vandetta, not logic or true understanding of balance right now.
The only problem with the class is that people would rather cry for nerfs to it than learn how to counter it. Im sorry, you cant fix incompetence with balance changes. Sorcs are perfectly fine if you know how to play against em. But if you don't, then ya I totally get the rabid hatred.
I remember a couple of years ago the DK community was pushing back against the calls for nerfs. They used pretty much the same arguments. L2P, L2Counter, etc. etc. The fact is DK was overpowered AF then and Sorc is overpowered now. All the streamers have already started rerolling Sorc in anticipation for Morrowind.
I understand that you main a sorc so you're biased. I get that. But I am legitimately concerned for the health of this game. If these changes go live, Sorc will go from the most popular and already dominant class to being basically the only class.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT5 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »@IzakiBrotherSs
Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s
I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.
I'll 1v1 you. I'll play Mag Sorc, you can play whatever you want. We can duel however many times you want. 50 times? You won't win a single one unless I DC or some shenanigans. Ok? Will that be enough evidence for you, your honor?
Sure let's 1v1.
But no that's not enough evidence because its based on only 2 players. I'm asking for actual arguments. Things that show that mathematically Sorc is better than other classes. Hell, even if its not maths, it can just be reasoning. Ever taken philosophy or law classes? You know the reasoning process? Those reasoning processes apply to any reasoning. Show me yours.
How about this:
1) MagSorc is currently top PvE DPS. Competitive Raid Guilds are filling the majority of their DPS spots with Sorc.
2) My PvP guild, Invictus (one of the best PvP guilds NA, in my humble opinion, of course), is basically pushing for people to reroll Sorc because of how good it is.
It should tell you something when competitive PvE and PvP guilds are basically demanding people reroll to one class.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT6 -
Vosital✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »@IzakiBrotherSs
Do you really think this is some sort of conspiracy against Sorcs that the entire community is in on? You go on any part of the forum, Reddit, TF, etc, and you will see the same thing. EVERYBODY who has played against a competent Sorc knows how game breaking this class is. Even streamers, who try to stay unbiased, will straight up tell you Sorcs are insane right now. Here is one example:https://youtu.be/u-uvmYxHBN0?t=1h39m45s
I'm not thinking anything. I'm asking to give me evidence. So far you've given none to prove your point.
I'll 1v1 you. I'll play Mag Sorc, you can play whatever you want. We can duel however many times you want. 50 times? You won't win a single one unless I DC or some shenanigans. Ok? Will that be enough evidence for you, your honor?
Sure let's 1v1.
But no that's not enough evidence because its based on only 2 players. I'm asking for actual arguments. Things that show that mathematically Sorc is better than other classes. Hell, even if its not maths, it can just be reasoning. Ever taken philosophy or law classes? You know the reasoning process? Those reasoning processes apply to any reasoning. Show me yours.
1v1 is not good enough? Alright fine. We'll 4v4. My team will be 4 Sorcs (I know 1 Mag Sorc player and 2 Stam Sorc players with CB invite), you can have whatever group setup you like with no Sorcs. Once again, you will not win a single time. Let me know when you've got your team setup and we can arrange this.
If not, I am done arguing with you.0 -
Drishtan✭✭✭[/quote]
You don't think Sorc passives give functionality? Sorcs have the strongest passives in the game. Full stop. Implosion, Expert Mage, Blood Magic, POWER STONE, Energized, etc.
That is the single most OP list of passives in game. What drugs are you guys on??[/quote]
Power Stone? Dark Magic? The others I agree are very strong. But not these 2, they are perfectly in line with other passives. The ultimate generation... You can look through my previous posts on this thread to see where I show that Power Stone is roughly the same Ult gain as other classes, so while it is a good passive, its just as good as the ultimate generation from the following class passives: Mountain's Blessing, Prism and Transfer
NBs have ridiculously strong passives too. All classes have some very strong passives. Want proof?
Templar: Piercing Spear, Burning Light, Balanced Warrior
DK: Battle Roar, Helping Hands (even with nerfs these passives are still very strong)
NB: Catalyst, Pressure Points, Hemorrhage, Refreshing Shadows, Magicka Flood
Needless to say NB has more stronger passives than all the other classes. Sorc has 3.[/quote]IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Sometimes I'm wondering whether some people prioritize getting other classes nerfed or whether they prioritize reverting the nerfs to their own classes... Seems like the former.
It's both, but nerfs to Sorcs are as important if not more important. Because:
1. Sorcs are already overtuned in Homestead and are the strongest PvP class. They need nerfs regardless of what happens in the rest of this patch.
2. Some of the resource management nerfs actually make sense and can be healthy for the game. The problem is, when they only nerf 3/4 class there becomes a great disbalance. Especially when the one class they don't nerf is already the strongest.
@Vosital Tell me what buffs Sorc (specifically Sorc, not Destro Staff or Fighters Guild), has received since Thieves Guild.
For one Haunting Curse...
So your busted...
I never claimed that there were no buffs to Sorcs. I said list them all. So no Haunting Curse being the only one is exactly my point, aka the opposite of being busted.
Ok you want more.
1.) More than a few BUFFS to Pets.
2.) They added Physical Damage to Implosion
3.) They fixed how Mages wrath works and ow it hits faster than anything in the game.
So again busted. There actually are a few more but thats not my job to remind you how OP you are.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Your arguments have been pretty awful so no
Says the guy who doesn't have any
Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm not good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.
I think you need to L2P the other classes and then we can talk.
I think you didn't understand my comment. I'm not the one whining for Sorc nerfs, because I'm good enough to go up against a Sorc.
I see 3 classes in your sig. I main a stamblade, play Stamplar, MagDK and Stam Sorc actively and lets just say that I'm near top on every trial leaderboards on my MagSorc (4th being the lowest). So yeah, I can play other classes and Sorc isn't even my main. I also have the other specs for every class, including Tank and Healer. So yeah, between us two, I think you're the one with a L2P issue.
Not quite. I'm currently solo on my MagSorc in Cyro and it's easy mode compared to the other classes (can't speak for Stamblade, though, as I don't play one). This isn't bias. This isn't me having an agenda other than wanting balance. This is irrefutable fact plain and simple that MagSorc is easier and more effective to play than, say, mDK. If you disagree, I challenge you to go solo on a mDK for a bit.
I agree. But at this point, I'm wondering why are people prioritizing getting Sorcs nerfed instead of getting their own class buffed?
There isn't much that makes Sorc easier than other classes, aside from the fact that you have complete freedom of range. Its easy to Sorc moderately well. I mean I see lots of people rolling Sorcs for trials and then wonder why their DPS is absolute trash. Its not that much of a difference with PvP. I think some classes are obviously going to be better than others for certain PvP playstyles. Its always going to be that way, even if the game is balanced, because some classes have tools that others don't, and that's what makes classes unique, not the color of the animations. IMO.
Stamblade is better in my opinion in open world due to the simple fact of being able to purge snares as well as have Shadow Image and Cloak for escaping. Not saying they are reliable escape mechanisms, but there kinda there and work sometimes.
It's ZoS agenda on levelling classes. They don't buff anything, they just nerf.
And even with that, a nerf to 3 out of 4 classes can be seen as an indirect buff to the 4th class... then, where's the levelling?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1