Sorcs and Favoritism

LeifErickson

Subversus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Dude above is trying to say that sorcs are fine cause they run out of magicka fast on the pts while stacking shields. Uhm hello sorcs aren't the only ones stacking shields, but they are THE ONLY shieldstacker that didn't get class specific nerfs. Come again, tell my magblade how bad your shield stacking sustain is.

@Zarrakon

But no really, at this point this becomes a problem with the actual changes than with the classes, and we're just throwing *** at each other. No nerfs should negate like 80% of the playstyles and builds in a game that is bragging about the freedom to create your own build.

Omg. Nightblade has soooo much better in combat sustain.
Please, show me a magicka Sorc who uses dark conversion in combat, or at all. It's only the stamina crowd who can afford to use it.
No magicka Sorc will take the risk of casting this inside of combat (unless you are a notorious line of sight breaker or when you can stand safely in the back), resulting in mag sorc having the WORST sustain of all class, the worst by far. Dark conversion is just so risky to use as a mag sorc, it's not wise.

Sorcerer has no sustain utility at all. Our only sustain is locked behind a 1 second cast, while all other classes get their sustain rather passively while using their regular stuff. It's so ridiculous.

You can't be serious Dracane. You yourself said that you don't get below 90% magicka in 1v1s and the videos you upload to YouTube support that claim. Please stop saying that sorcs have bad sustain, it sounds hypocritical.

A lot of MAGsorcs use dark conversion and builds that revolve aroundo it. @LeifErickson uses a dw build with amberplasm and Malcolm on EU (considered one of the best sorcs as you very well know :P ) uses one as well. Please stop.

I don't really feel like reading through 16 pages to know what we are talking about, but I will give examples of why dark deal IN COMBAT does work like @Subversus pointed out.

In a duel against melee:
All you have to do is sit behind your mines and you can spam dark deal all you want. Melee is unable to keep pressure up like ranged can in a duel because of mines so you can literally just sit there and spam the thing.

In a duel against anything:
You can get a dark deal or two off when you notice your opponent is applying buffs or doing things that they would not be able to bash you with. You can use stuns such as streak or defensive rune to get a dark deal or two off. The animation is so fast that you can even get one off when they are pressuring you sometimes, especially if they are ranged.

In open world:
It seems like when outnumbered, people don't even bother bashing you. Whether it's because each player assumes the other will bash, they don't even know bashing stops dark deal, or some other reason, getting a dark deal off in open world is not that hard. You can use line of sight to do it too.

Dark deal is not hard to get off in combat. It's only hard to get off if you are using it in the wrong moments. But dark deal isn't even that good compared to harness magicka. Harness magicka right now is so ridiculously op when combined with hardened that it makes sustain easy. All it takes is one magicka player to be hitting you and you can literally shield stack infinitely.

BohnT

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

That is no counterplay for everyone except for templars

Except for the fact that it's an alliance war support skill. There are also sets that will automatically clear negative effects, too.

yes it only costs 5k magicka meaning no stam char can use it often enough to use it as actual counterplay. That is no Argument to waste all your resources for 1 kill that helps you for .5 seconds

STEVIL

may have been said, may not have been said but...

1 - if it isn't already done or planned - i believe the "dark" skill/morphs should get the same "scale by level" as a number of other sustain powers do and that would likely mean a buff to the health restore but a nerf to the mag or stam restore. however, haven't looked at it recently for scaling so... maybe not.

2 - it seems many of their cuts on sustain-based powers were aimed at "sustain-others" and long run" sustains you throw before combat - that they dont generally seem to be cutting as bad against self-sustain powers especially ones which dont have long run-times. Specifically, if using it for sustain WILL cost you damage clicks of your rotation, notgetting so much of a cutback. That seems to fit with their goal here of putting sustain and damage as opposing options, as alternatives to each other, competitive choices for clicks, slots, sets, gear etc.

Vosital

On ESO live they mentioned Crystal Frags getting a 10% damage reduction.

That's not nearly enough, and I really hope that it's not all there doing. The biggest problems are things like Hardened Ward, Curse, Dark Exchange, and their passives. But I must say that I am happy to finally see some nerfs to this class.

Subversus

They can let dark deal/ conversion be as far as I'm concerned if I think about this some more... By the looks of it I'll probably dust off the old stam sorc and forget that my magblade ever existed...

Lord_Hev

10% nerf to crystal frag proc.... a nerf that only affects DW sorc more and leaves destro/resto sorc untouched.


I must have frag'd Wrobel for 20k frags or something, every patch since Dark Brotherhood has been littered with direct and indirect nerfs to DW sorc playstyle, and the trend seems relentless.

Minalan

Lord_Hev wrote: »

10% nerf to crystal frag proc.... a nerf that only affects DW sorc more and leaves destro/resto sorc untouched.


I must have frag'd Wrobel for 20k frags or something, every patch since Dark Brotherhood has been littered with direct and indirect nerfs to DW sorc playstyle, and the trend seems relentless.

I don't think it got nerfed. @Lord_Hev

If I'm right, it should be about the same or slightly buffed.

Lord_Hev

Minalan wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

10% nerf to crystal frag proc.... a nerf that only affects DW sorc more and leaves destro/resto sorc untouched.


I must have frag'd Wrobel for 20k frags or something, every patch since Dark Brotherhood has been littered with direct and indirect nerfs to DW sorc playstyle, and the trend seems relentless.

I don't think it got nerfed. @Lord_Hev

If I'm right, it should be about the same or slightly buffed.

It might cancel out depending on how you stack Elemental Expert with Master at Arms. But in No CP, it is a nerf.

KingJ

Lord_Hev wrote: »

10% nerf to crystal frag proc.... a nerf that only affects DW sorc more and leaves destro/resto sorc untouched.


I must have frag'd Wrobel for 20k frags or something, every patch since Dark Brotherhood has been littered with direct and indirect nerfs to DW sorc playstyle, and the trend seems relentless.

Sorry I hate when they nerf niche playstyle like melee magblades and force a niche playstyle out.

Vosital

Subversus wrote: »

They can let dark deal/ conversion be as far as I'm concerned if I think about this some more... By the looks of it I'll probably dust off the old stam sorc and forget that my magblade ever existed...

Ugh, stam sorc is so much better then any other stamina setup that it is annoying. Every other class is has limited resource management but Dark Deal is still insane.

Beardimus

I'm with ya @Lord_Hev DW Magsorc has taken kicking after kicking patch after patch. They want wizards with wands

There is no need to Nerf a niche playstyle yet they do. Certainly to favoritism for DW MagSorc

Subversus

@Vosital shhh I've made up my mind about what I'll main next patch, heck even designed the character (super sexy fat orc). Let them listen to fengrush about how balanced the class is, after all he and the other amazing players that stream this game did a great job beta testing during that invite session, no wonder the game will get such marvelous changes next patch.

Riggsy

Delete Sorc as a class, replace it with Warden. Problem solved

burglar

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

I've never understood why this class isn't ever nerfed. It has the fastest speed, the highest damage, the ability to have pets, the greatest shields, direction-controlled teleports, really high sustain, easy access to 3 hotbars (overload). I wonder, what's the downside to sorcerer?

Minalan

Riggsy wrote: »

Delete Templar as a class, replace it with Warden. Problem solved

Fixed that for you, at least Warden gets major mending...

FuriousFridge

All these sorcs tears are wonderful.

Stamden

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

I've never understood why this class isn't ever nerfed. It has the fastest speed, the highest damage, the ability to have pets, the greatest shields, direction-controlled teleports, really high sustain, easy access to 3 hotbars (overload). I wonder, what's the downside to sorcerer?

That's why it's Zenimax's favorite class. Wrobel is the father and Sorcerer is like the first-born son. They need to be the best at everything and never get treated badly.

alexkdd99

Edziu wrote: »

sorceresr never got big nerf like other classes, example: magdk since game start was godmode, then nerf to the ground and unplayalbe for over year, templar have buff an nerf but big nerfs very hurting like now stamplar is unplayable in vpe since few months and now more unplayable, nb similiar, once was good and then now until now and nb is stil worst class for dps while sorc was damn never that down with nerf like other classes and this is balance? while very other class was up and at the bottom sorc was never at bottom, only as average or on top

What do you mean never got big nerf. Every class in the game has been buffed and nerfed throughout the games life. Get out of here with made up nonsense.

Shields from 20 seconds to 6.
Ultimate from 1000 to 500.

Those are just 2 of the ones that pretty much only affected sorcs.

Edziu

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

sorceresr never got big nerf like other classes, example: magdk since game start was godmode, then nerf to the ground and unplayalbe for over year, templar have buff an nerf but big nerfs very hurting like now stamplar is unplayable in vpe since few months and now more unplayable, nb similiar, once was good and then now until now and nb is stil worst class for dps while sorc was damn never that down with nerf like other classes and this is balance? while very other class was up and at the bottom sorc was never at bottom, only as average or on top

What do you mean never got big nerf. Every class in the game has been buffed and nerfed throughout the games life. Get out of here with made up nonsense.

Shields from 20 seconds to 6.
Ultimate from 1000 to 500.

Those are just 2 of the ones that pretty much only affected sorcs.

so only very hurting nerfs to sorcs?

how about nerf with dynamic ult reg which was 1 of many nerf which killed magdk in early game?with not to mention nerf with reflect and many other nerf just to dk what was killed this class for over year

templar nerf to repetanca what was to op before when you was ablo repetance 1 corpse forever xD and now again nerfed, taken away some most viable stuns for templar, bol nerfed many times, purify, radiant destruction, and other nerf which hitted templar very strong

nb was on start unplayable, then just some small buffs and when nb was just once on top he got big nerf and again he is on bottom, what about funnel health? concealed weapon useless escept speedbuff in stealth on pvp, soul harvest which nerf is more perceptible in pve, nerf to passives, as I remember before 1 passiva was givin 30% to stam regen and maybe to mag also but Im not sure, then they nerfed it to 15% added almost useless health regen bonus to this

and sorc? some streak nerfs, sorcs wasnt on bottom, ult storage from 1000 to 500? oh pleas, no more stacking ult to max and then mindless spam light attack overload with max dps? monkey will do better dps with normla skills than someone spamming only staced overload withing full fight and shields from 20 to 6 seconds...oh sorry...no more running 100% uptime shields in pvp outside combat and being immune to gankers, at all in combat our single shield in burst time would not be longer than 3 seonds lol


can someone remind here more nerf which was also very huring dk, templar and nb? I cant remember any strong nerf to sorc which did sorc unplayable for some time....ohh I remember! sorc was alway playabe, he never got big nerf like other classes sur he got nerf like other classes but never that big like other

BohnT

I guess we can finally say that the devs will never touch sorcs where they really should.

Dark Deal: Still no changes I can sustain so easy in pvp and pve on the pts without thinking about resources at any time even in HA

Shieldstacking: No nerf directly to it. And no the resource changes are not a direct nerf if you can't apply pressure the enemy don't have to shield.

Stackable curse and endless fury: no changes to these skills why does one sorc has the ability to reduce my effective health to 45% and lower? This is just stupid. And with the stackable curse you can instantly kill anyone that is not a magplar.

All these things should be addressed not to make the Mag sorc crappy but to balance them. I don't want another dead class like magblade magdk or stamplar ( last two in respect to the last year)

Aliniel

ZOS has always "favored" one class or another at any given time since beta. It's simple and obvious - ZOS is very bad at balancing. 4 classes and one is always way better than the rest. Welcome to ESO

Asgari

Confirmed, none of the actual issues with sorc were addressed.

Dark Deal interrupt - (should cost the caster if interrupted, also very hard to bash)
Increase ward duration but also increase its cost by 10% - (still have burst survivability but also forces a focus into less dmg sets)

CyrusArya

haha, suck it peasants.

At any rate, most of the criticism on how sorcs are supposedly OP is misconceived and exaggerated.
People just love to hate on this class and always have. I appreciate that the devs acknowledge this and balance accordingly.

The rest of yall need to seriously just learn to play.

BohnT

CyrusArya wrote: »

haha, suck it peasants.

At any rate, most of the criticism on how sorcs are supposedly OP is misconceived and exaggerated.
People just love to hate on this class and always have. I appreciate that the devs acknowledge this and balance accordingly.

The rest of yall need to seriously just learn to play.

The bias is strong with this one. Have you played on pts with a sorc?
I did and it is laughable how op that thing is I had no sustain/heal/damage problems in 4 hours of bg fights, while seeing other class just light and heavy attack me after 30 seconds. I had no optimal gear and could kill so many ppl in few seconds I even had some 1vX I won with a class I never played on live.
Sorc is too strong in anything from pvp to pve this has go stop

Minalan

CyrusArya wrote: »

haha, suck it peasants.

At any rate, most of the criticism on how sorcs are supposedly OP is misconceived and exaggerated.
People just love to hate on this class and always have. I appreciate that the devs acknowledge this and balance accordingly.

The rest of yall need to seriously just learn to play.

You beat me to it Cyrus.

wimhwimladimf

BohnT wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

haha, suck it peasants.

At any rate, most of the criticism on how sorcs are supposedly OP is misconceived and exaggerated.
People just love to hate on this class and always have. I appreciate that the devs acknowledge this and balance accordingly.

The rest of yall need to seriously just learn to play.

The bias is strong with this one. Have you played on pts with a sorc?
I did and it is laughable how op that thing is I had no sustain/heal/damage problems in 4 hours of bg fights, while seeing other class just light and heavy attack me after 30 seconds. I had no optimal gear and could kill so many ppl in few seconds I even had some 1vX I won with a class I never played on live.
Sorc is too strong in anything from pvp to pve this has go stop

Dont wanna call you a troll, but without video anyone can make the same claim with <insert random class here>.

BohnT

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

haha, suck it peasants.

At any rate, most of the criticism on how sorcs are supposedly OP is misconceived and exaggerated.
People just love to hate on this class and always have. I appreciate that the devs acknowledge this and balance accordingly.

The rest of yall need to seriously just learn to play.

The bias is strong with this one. Have you played on pts with a sorc?
I did and it is laughable how op that thing is I had no sustain/heal/damage problems in 4 hours of bg fights, while seeing other class just light and heavy attack me after 30 seconds. I had no optimal gear and could kill so many ppl in few seconds I even had some 1vX I won with a class I never played on live.
Sorc is too strong in anything from pvp to pve this has go stop

Dont wanna call you a troll, but without video anyone can make the same claim with <insert random class here>.

You know that we are not allowed to share videos about bgs. Ask any competent sorc about the changes and they will tell you the same thing

Minno

olsborg wrote: »

Ashnunn wrote: »

Shields will cost more - moving points over to regen will take away from max magicka = reduced shield size.

Shield spamming, while still possible, will be much harder

But they didnt change the cost of the actual shields, they did that to vigor and every stamina skill and they nerfed major mending for both dk and templar(took it away).

Theres such a glaring balance issue between healing and damage shields....zos needs to start thinking.

Base cost for dampen mag is close to 5k (4.3-4.5 I think). Hardened ward is 3.2k base. Tbh that should have matched other class shield costs; templar = 4.3k or if matching the DK cost should have reduced strength due to the increased spamable intent.

Problem also, in cyro most builds can't allow for a delay in burst. The delay makes it hard for your enemy to time their Shield cast since if all the sources burst at once, they should be void of their 10k shield+. Following with a cc ensures they take dmg. But you can still follow a line of attacks that should put pressure on that Shield.

Minno

Edit: double Post

Minno

Minalan wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Delete Templar as a class, replace it with Warden. Problem solved

Fixed that for you, at least Warden gets major mending...

"Last of the Templars" starring Tom Cruise confirmed.