Sorcs and Favoritism

Drishtan

Edziu wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

And about mages wrath yes it only works after 20% BUT it the only one u can put on someone at 100% and it can proc later when ur in death range and insta kill you... Not one other excute does that.

and this!
I wrote it many many times about sorcs...this finisher is *** annyoing because once you go under 20% health in fight against sorc it insta death to you.....

Add in implosion and you never have a chance.

Xvorg

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's follow the idea to buff classes instead of nerfing them, so:

DKs

8- change the 40% extra dmg on full heavy attackson Armaments for a 20% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks


Ok sorcs, do you agree with those suggestions?

LMFAO!!!!!! Lets buff them.....Number 8 a clear nerf....WTF LMFAO

a 20 % extra dmg on light attack + elegance is a 40% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks. You don't need full cast, just weaving will be enough.

LFMAO SO Now to get the 20% im forced to run elegant set???

How is this not a nerf?? THATS WORSE THEN A NORM NERF ITS A DOUBLE NERF!!!! 1. You red damage. 2. U force me to use a new set????

I mean come on now i have to run Shieldbreaker + elegant just to run around on a mag dk????

Really???

How many light attacks can do while casting a full heavy attack? How much uti is generated? How much magicka/stamina is returned?

You don't have to use a new set. Full heavy mDK can run elegance too and get a 60% extra dmg on each heavy attack, question is, do you have enough time to use a full heavy attack moar than once each fight?

So an extra 20% dmg while weaving light attacks is bad? How much do we have now? How many builds do use armaments instead of igneous?

And that 20% is tricky in mDKs... because of major sorc it is a little stronger (nearly 30%)

Xvorg

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's follow the idea to buff classes instead of nerfing them, so:

DKs

8- change the 40% extra dmg on full heavy attackson Armaments for a 20% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks


Ok sorcs, do you agree with those suggestions?

LMFAO!!!!!! Lets buff them.....Number 8 a clear nerf....WTF LMFAO

a 20 % extra dmg on light attack + elegance is a 40% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks. You don't need full cast, just weaving will be enough.

LFMAO SO Now to get the 20% im forced to run elegant set???

How is this not a nerf?? THATS WORSE THEN A NORM NERF ITS A DOUBLE NERF!!!! 1. You red damage. 2. U force me to use a new set????

I mean come on now i have to run Shieldbreaker + elegant just to run around on a mag dk????

Really???

How many light attacks can do while casting a full heavy attack? How much uti is generated? How much magicka/stamina is returned?

You don't have to use a new set. Full heavy mDK can run elegance too and get a 60% extra dmg on each heavy attack, question is, do you have enough time to use a full heavy attack moar than once each fight?

So an extra 20% dmg while weaving light attacks is bad? How much do we have now? How many builds do use armaments instead of igneous?

And that 20% is tricky in mDKs... because of major sorc it is a little stronger (nearly 30%)

snip

You ar not getting the point:

Current extra dmg on light attacks= 0
Current extra dmg on heavy attacks = 0
Current extra dmg on full heavy attack: 40%

Proposed Idea

Current extra dmg on light attacks= 20%
Current extra dmg on heavy attacks = 20%
Current extra dmg on full heavy attack: 20%


Now let see: how many builds do use molten instead of igneous? Can a mDK using s/B use it? Can a stamDK using bow take advantage of it?

Only one build can use it and that build is plainly bad. The idea is focused on making the skill moar universally used

Is that so hard to understand?

Xvorg

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's follow the idea to buff classes instead of nerfing them, so:

DKs

8- change the 40% extra dmg on full heavy attackson Armaments for a 20% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks


Ok sorcs, do you agree with those suggestions?

LMFAO!!!!!! Lets buff them.....Number 8 a clear nerf....WTF LMFAO

a 20 % extra dmg on light attack + elegance is a 40% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks. You don't need full cast, just weaving will be enough.

LFMAO SO Now to get the 20% im forced to run elegant set???

How is this not a nerf?? THATS WORSE THEN A NORM NERF ITS A DOUBLE NERF!!!! 1. You red damage. 2. U force me to use a new set????

I mean come on now i have to run Shieldbreaker + elegant just to run around on a mag dk????

Really???

How many light attacks can do while casting a full heavy attack? How much uti is generated? How much magicka/stamina is returned?

You don't have to use a new set. Full heavy mDK can run elegance too and get a 60% extra dmg on each heavy attack, question is, do you have enough time to use a full heavy attack moar than once each fight?

So an extra 20% dmg while weaving light attacks is bad? How much do we have now? How many builds do use armaments instead of igneous?

And that 20% is tricky in mDKs... because of major sorc it is a little stronger (nearly 30%)

Also light attacks restore 0 mag and stam fyi....

So again you really do not understand this game at all so just be quiet.

Are you sure light attacks don't return resurces? What about building ulti to use Battle roar? Because that ulti comes from light attacks right?

Drishtan

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's follow the idea to buff classes instead of nerfing them, so:

DKs

8- change the 40% extra dmg on full heavy attackson Armaments for a 20% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks


Ok sorcs, do you agree with those suggestions?

LMFAO!!!!!! Lets buff them.....Number 8 a clear nerf....WTF LMFAO

a 20 % extra dmg on light attack + elegance is a 40% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks. You don't need full cast, just weaving will be enough.

LFMAO SO Now to get the 20% im forced to run elegant set???

How is this not a nerf?? THATS WORSE THEN A NORM NERF ITS A DOUBLE NERF!!!! 1. You red damage. 2. U force me to use a new set????

I mean come on now i have to run Shieldbreaker + elegant just to run around on a mag dk????

Really???

How many light attacks can do while casting a full heavy attack? How much uti is generated? How much magicka/stamina is returned?

You don't have to use a new set. Full heavy mDK can run elegance too and get a 60% extra dmg on each heavy attack, question is, do you have enough time to use a full heavy attack moar than once each fight?

So an extra 20% dmg while weaving light attacks is bad? How much do we have now? How many builds do use armaments instead of igneous?

And that 20% is tricky in mDKs... because of major sorc it is a little stronger (nearly 30%)

YOU NOT GETTING THE POINT!!!! YOU ARE NERFING IT!!!! NOT A BUFF. YOU SAID TO ADD BUFF INSTEAD OF NERFS!!!

THIS IS A NERF AND YOU FORCE ME TO RUN A SET TO GET SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE????

ARE YOU***** CRAZY????

You complain about streak getting nerfed this skill has already been nerfed in the pass!!! Do you remember this skill used to have an execute it doesnt now...

LMFAO your a moron. I cant believe you cant understand the fact that if you force someone to wear a set thats a huge nerf. I dont want to use that set ever.

You ar not getting the point:

Current extra dmg on light attacks= 0
Current extra dmg on heavy attacks = 0
Current extra dmg on full heavy attack: 40%

Proposed Idea

Current extra dmg on light attacks= 20%
Current extra dmg on heavy attacks = 20%
Current extra dmg on full heavy attack: 20%


Now let see: how many builds do use molten instead of igneous? Can a mDK using s/B use it? Can a stamDK using bow take advantage of it?

Only one build can use it and that build is plainly bad. The idea is focused on making the skill moar universally used

Is that so hard to understand?

You really arent getting it you said buff and you propose a nerf plain and simple.

Izaki

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's follow the idea to buff classes instead of nerfing them, so:

DKs

8- change the 40% extra dmg on full heavy attackson Armaments for a 20% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks


Ok sorcs, do you agree with those suggestions?

LMFAO!!!!!! Lets buff them.....Number 8 a clear nerf....WTF LMFAO

a 20 % extra dmg on light attack + elegance is a 40% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks. You don't need full cast, just weaving will be enough.

LFMAO SO Now to get the 20% im forced to run elegant set???

How is this not a nerf?? THATS WORSE THEN A NORM NERF ITS A DOUBLE NERF!!!! 1. You red damage. 2. U force me to use a new set????

I mean come on now i have to run Shieldbreaker + elegant just to run around on a mag dk????

Really???

How many light attacks can do while casting a full heavy attack? How much uti is generated? How much magicka/stamina is returned?

You don't have to use a new set. Full heavy mDK can run elegance too and get a 60% extra dmg on each heavy attack, question is, do you have enough time to use a full heavy attack moar than once each fight?

So an extra 20% dmg while weaving light attacks is bad? How much do we have now? How many builds do use armaments instead of igneous?

And that 20% is tricky in mDKs... because of major sorc it is a little stronger (nearly 30%)

Also light attacks restore 0 mag and stam fyi....

So again you really do not understand this game at all so just be quiet.

Are you sure light attacks don't return resurces? What about building ulti to use Battle roar? Because that ulti comes from light attacks right?

Ultimate gain comes from any attacks with your weapon be it light or heavy. Block also generates the same ultimate.
Standard ultimate gain is 3 ult per second for 9 seconds.

ZOS_Bill

We've had to remove some comments that were flaming and baiting, which can lead this thread into being derailed. Please review the forum rules before posting so your commenrs are constructive and remain civil.

Stamden

Xvorg wrote: »

Let's follow the idea to buff classes instead of nerfing them, so:

NBs:

1- Give cloak its purge back
2- Give impale, CW, assa will and cripple frozen dmg and a chance to proc frozen status
3- Reverse strife cost nerf
4- Give grim focus a chance to proc on class skill use while keeping the buff on activation
5- Make agony a stam morph
6- Make power extraction return stam for each enemy hit and buff its dmg on a 10%
7- Allow casting shadow out of combat and make twin shadows a toggle like sorc pets (if you want)
8- Reverse any change done to Manifestation of terror... we want the trap back (invis to enemies)
9- Reverse any changes to be done on Siphoning strikes

DKs

1- Bring inferno back to its original form. Make FOO work on flame dmg and get rid of cauterize, instead make it a poison dmg skills (poison cloud)
2- Reduce magicka cost for each skill in a 10%
3- Make the combustion passive work on flame or poison dmg and not on statuses. A 5% dmg increase would be nice
4- Reverse most of the changes done to flappy wings, except reflecting ultis.
5- Make choking talons a stam morph doing poison dmg. Keep the cost
6- Increase base heal of GDB a 40%
7- Get rid of obsidian shard healing and make it heal the caster, make stonegiant a physical dmg skill (costing stam)
8- change the 40% extra dmg on full heavy attackson Armaments for a 20% extra dmg on light and heavy attacks
9- Get rid of fragmented shield, change it for a flame cloak
10- Reverse any change done to ash cloud (give back the missing chance on attacker)

Temps

1- Reverse any changes done this morrowind patch. You are killing a class that doesn't deserve it.

Ok sorcs, do you agree with those suggestions?

This right here. If the devs want to do all this, then fine, leave Sorcs how they are. In fact, I would prefer these changes (for some reason they gave my Inferno away to Stam Sorcs and gave me some ghetto inner-light instead).

But realistically it is just easier to nerf a broken class.

Minalan

Where do we lobby for cloak to get a purge again?

Eirella

Minalan wrote: »

Where do we lobby for cloak to get a purge again?

Yes please!



Also, leave sorcs alone!

Malamar1229

I cant even read these forums any more. The crying is over the top. The Nerfs are over the top. I mean, I hope the blatant crying over sorcs isn't because you've died to someone cheating, because then we all suffer right...

I dont build for cheese, and I die just as much as you all do. Clearly your issues are with certain sorc metas right now that are largely at the fault of poor sets.

Godspeed

I love all the career sorcs in this thread who are trying to convince people that they are just better players.

They need to make a new buff category for shields so only one can be active at a time.

Derra

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

Derra

Kilandros wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

Read my previous comments in this thread, will you? I'm pretty sure your arguments are much worse than mine.

Your arguments have been pretty awful so no

Says the guy who doesn't have any

Also I'm not the one whining for nerfs because I'm not good enough to go up against a Sorc. You are.

I think you need to L2P the other classes and then we can talk.

I think you didn't understand my comment. I'm not the one whining for Sorc nerfs, because I'm good enough to go up against a Sorc.

I see 3 classes in your sig. I main a stamblade, play Stamplar, MagDK and Stam Sorc actively and lets just say that I'm near top on every trial leaderboards on my MagSorc (4th being the lowest). So yeah, I can play other classes and Sorc isn't even my main. I also have the other specs for every class, including Tank and Healer. So yeah, between us two, I think you're the one with a L2P issue.

Not quite. I'm currently solo on my MagSorc in Cyro and it's easy mode compared to the other classes (can't speak for Stamblade, though, as I don't play one). This isn't bias. This isn't me having an agenda other than wanting balance. This is irrefutable fact plain and simple that MagSorc is easier and more effective to play than, say, mDK. If you disagree, I challenge you to go solo on a mDK for a bit.

Which is not a good argument to make in the first place.

mDK and Magplar simply suffer because they lack mobility not in combat effectiveness (a good magplar will destroy sorcs without pets flatout - a good mDK will atleast force a draw). The sole reason why magsorc and stamblade are so popular for soloplay in cyro is because they´re the only classes with the possibilty to escape fights.

If you put the classes into a group fight context sorc is suddenly no longer overperforming compared to anything but magDK maybe.
But should the possibly worst class in the game at the moment really be the benchmark?

Edit: Petsorcs overperforming in duels is another issue - but also gets solved by groupplay where petsorcs are horrible.

Xsorus

I don't know, I'm curious how Pet Sorcs are going to do in the BG's to be honest..

Derra

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know, I'm curious how Pet Sorcs are going to do in the BG's to be honest..

It´s really tricky. Petsorc synergises well with other petsorcs but they do get (hard)countered by nonpetsorcs with negate/encase (a single sorc will take out all enemy vol familiars - which are the dangerous part about petsorcs).

A single petsorc without groupsupport is dead meat against similar skilled opponents.

Bartdude

What makes me laugh the most? Instead of people standing up and fighting for their own class they h8 against another...well funny...just goes to show the mentality and age group of some people.

Edziu

Bartdude wrote: »

What makes me laugh the most? Instead of people standing up and fighting for their own class they h8 against another...well funny...just goes to show the mentality and age group of some people.

maybe some things need to be toned down? ofc better will be to buff other classes but you cant buff every time, zos will but again 1 other class to much and then what? buff rest again raising power creep?
ofc now those nerf are unecessary to other classes but at all sorc also need to be toned down, now I dont say for big nerf to sorc but sorc at all need atlest to be a bit toned down as ZOS is nerfing this all because of power creep so buff other classes to sorc level wont be ZOS intention because it wont be toned down but rather again buff rest for more pwoer creep with which ZOS is trying to fight lol

Allu07neb18_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

But again Not ONE sorc has gave a rational argument as to why they didnt get any changes in both pts patch notes.

@Drishtan most of what makes sorc overperforming is either gear or skills not specific to sorcs.

They need to adress harness magica stacking with hardened ward. It flatout should not imo.
They need to do something about pirate skeleton. It´s too strong.

About sorc they need to reduce the effectiveness of dark deal. A suggestion was turning the resources return into a over time component (470 every s over 10s instead of 4700 at once) allowing you to spam dark deal for healing or wait for the resource return reducing it´s effectiveness.

What would you propose to change about sorcs?

This!!! I hope they do this.

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

Merlin13KAGL

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

TheHsN

Who Cant beat the other player.. it is not because that who is againest them is SORC or DK or TEMPLAR or NB it is Cuz enemy is better player than him/her self...

in this game everbody kill anybody just need to know their classes and need to know how to play...

BohnT

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

That is no counterplay for everyone except for templars

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

That is no counterplay for everyone except for templars

Curse is really hard to balance when thinking about it though - as it´s essentially the only tool for sorcs to combat block.

Also curse was unblockable for most of the games lifetime. I think it´s specifically meant to be a block counter.

Vosital

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

That is no counterplay for everyone except for templars

Curse is really hard to balance when thinking about it though - as it´s essentially the only tool for sorcs to combat block.

Also curse was unblockable for most of the games lifetime. I think it´s specifically meant to be a block counter.

So in addition to Sorcs unique ability to shield, streak, negate, and dark deal, they also need to have a block counter?

DKs be like:

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

That is no counterplay for everyone except for templars

Curse is really hard to balance when thinking about it though - as it´s essentially the only tool for sorcs to combat block.

Also curse was unblockable for most of the games lifetime. I think it´s specifically meant to be a block counter.

Curse is too powerful in its current state against MA stam build which will be probably meta again in Morrowind.
Curse combined with endless fury lower the effective health of most stam builds to 40% and that is just op.
Fury means you are dead instantly lwhen at 20% health. Curse explodes and takes away about 40% of your health meaning that once you drop below 60% health you are almost dead.

Even while pressuring a sorc and curse explodes the frags can come instantly afterwards so you can never go full damage on a sorc even when he's playing defensively.
The abilities of sorcs just synergise so well with one another that any other class can only dream of this.
Sorc has literally an answer to any class and if not streak will ensure that you survive unless it bugs.

CyrusArya

Vosital wrote: »

So in addition to Sorcs unique ability to shield, streak, negate, and dark deal, they also need to have a block counter?

Yes they do, because other than curse, every single other skill in the sorc kit is countered by both blocking and dodging. No other class can be completely shut down like sorc for this reason. But I don't expect people who cry about sorcs to understand that too well. Also, the ability to shield is not unique to sorc.

And FYI DKs do have a tool to use against block, it's called fossilize.

Nelson_Rebel

I created a similar thread.


While highlighting the sorcs was also within my post, I blame on th way mechanics currently work.


Blatantly favoring ranged DPS over any other deviation of damage.

It's effectively shut down close range (notably stamina) and other magic classes frome being able to compete. Other than the obvious "chain adds" for DK's.


It's disgusting at this point

Xvorg

CyrusArya wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

So in addition to Sorcs unique ability to shield, streak, negate, and dark deal, they also need to have a block counter?

Yes they do, because other than curse, every single other skill in the sorc kit is countered by both blocking and dodging. No other class can be completely shut down like sorc for this reason. But I don't expect people who cry about sorcs to understand that too well. Also, the ability to shield is not unique to sorc.

And FYI DKs do have a tool to use against block, it's called fossilize.

Like encase, or negate, or streak, right?

Subversus

Dracane wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Dude above is trying to say that sorcs are fine cause they run out of magicka fast on the pts while stacking shields. Uhm hello sorcs aren't the only ones stacking shields, but they are THE ONLY shieldstacker that didn't get class specific nerfs. Come again, tell my magblade how bad your shield stacking sustain is.

@Zarrakon

But no really, at this point this becomes a problem with the actual changes than with the classes, and we're just throwing *** at each other. No nerfs should negate like 80% of the playstyles and builds in a game that is bragging about the freedom to create your own build.

Omg. Nightblade has soooo much better in combat sustain.
Please, show me a magicka Sorc who uses dark conversion in combat, or at all. It's only the stamina crowd who can afford to use it.
No magicka Sorc will take the risk of casting this inside of combat (unless you are a notorious line of sight breaker or when you can stand safely in the back), resulting in mag sorc having the WORST sustain of all class, the worst by far. Dark conversion is just so risky to use as a mag sorc, it's not wise.

Sorcerer has no sustain utility at all. Our only sustain is locked behind a 1 second cast, while all other classes get their sustain rather passively while using their regular stuff. It's so ridiculous.

You can't be serious Dracane. You yourself said that you don't get below 90% magicka in 1v1s and the videos you upload to YouTube support that claim. Please stop saying that sorcs have bad sustain, it sounds hypocritical.

A lot of MAGsorcs use dark conversion and builds that revolve aroundo it. @LeifErickson uses a dw build with amberplasm and Malcolm on EU (considered one of the best sorcs as you very well know :P ) uses one as well. Please stop. Dark deal is broken in it's current state.

I don't mind anything else regarding sorcs, shield stacking will get destroyed next patch so I'm fine.

Merlin13KAGL

BohnT wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Allu07neb18_ESO wrote: »

I dont like implosion passive its bad game desing, but i can live with that. I still hope they give something else to socs.

I think curse also need some real counter like blocking was.

23 out of 25 times, implosion does nothing.

Curse has a counter - it can be purged.

That is no counterplay for everyone except for templars

Except for the fact that it's an alliance war support skill. There are also sets that will automatically clear negative effects, too.