Should Purifying / Power of the Light only copy damage from caster?

Taylor_MB

It's made Stamplars powerful again which is a good thing, but it's such a xv1 tool.

Proposal: Only copy the damage of the player that applied it.

That way it actually has to be used thoughtfully, like using a stunning ult right before it's about to expire. Instead of just applying it and getting a free ult's worth (or usually more, like 9k in non-cp is pretty standard value I see) of damage from other people spamming light attack.

I don't think this nerfs the skill into the ground, just makes it more well rounded. In unrelated news, looking to hire a purge monkey.

maxjapank

No - remain unchnaged

No

Grumble_and_Grunt

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Yes, I love this skill for my Templars, really nice burst that has to be timed etc.

However the fact all dmg contributes to the storing mechanic is too much. Too much where any build like the non dmg Cheeseplars can just spam this on anyone and everyone in an Xv1 scenario and deal 10k dmg to them whilst healing/tanking their group simultaneously.

The skill has literally become the new Jesus beam unless you're Prootch and the new Jesus beam is impale lol

tplink3r1

No - remain unchnaged

It was a very bad ability when it worked like that.

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

tplink3r1 wrote: »

It was a very bad ability when it worked like that.

Being bad previously doesn't make the current version balanced. The current version heavily favours the "x" in xv1.

How about only copying damage from the player that applied it, but increasing the duration (or something else)? We don't want it doing over an ult's worth of damage every 6 seconds, but we obviously want it viable.

Lord_Hev

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

As it stands now, it is a very zerg and Xv1 empowering tool that just favors the assertion "Larger numbers should basically always win" - Eric Wrobel, ESO Live 2017


I think having it only copy damage from the caster is more balanced. That alone still makes it potent for focus targets in group play as it puts a very obvious visual indicator for your group-mates to assist and CC while you can focus on DPSing.

Guaranteeing damage cap from multiple players is overkill. Especially on a stamplar that can achieve perfect mobility with shuffle + immovable speed pots + Extended Ritual, along with free major mending buffed vigor HOTs and free sustain from Dubious Camoran Drink allowing excess damage and raw stamina stat building, for near self-guarantee of achieving the damage cap from a mere dawnbreaker and Biting Jabs combo + the actual damage cap tooltip scaling with the higher of a stam pool achieved.

Master_Kas

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Yes, I love this skill for my Templars, really nice burst that has to be timed etc.

However the fact all dmg contributes to the storing mechanic is too much. Too much where any build like the non dmg Cheeseplars can just spam this on anyone and everyone in an Xv1 scenario and deal 10k dmg to them whilst healing/tanking their group simultaneously.

The skill has literally become the new Jesus beam unless you're Prootch and the new Jesus beam is impale lol

Wasn't about to comment on this thread until I saw this lol.

Best part of is when you hear the sound and see the red projectile over and over again, while being at full HP.

Xiphyla

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Should only copy damage from the applier itself.

WhiteMage

As an almost exclusively solo light armor magplar, I could tolerate it only copying the damage I dealt to my target and any damage the target deals to itself (slaughterfish, falling damage are self-inflicted), as long as I can still recast it before expiration to continue to build damage for the burst.

(Recasting activates the AoE heal on the magicka-morph backlash, but does not trigger the burst, nor does it clear the stored damage. Recasting multiple times over many seconds allows damage to be built up to the cap and unleashed all at once. Time with ult, cc, and RD for best results.)

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

The skill has literally become the new Jesus beam

This. There's no reason magplars should be given another hide-behind-the-zerg Xv1 tool. Just make it so the skill works on the caster's damage only, and it's fixed.

danno8

No - remain unchnaged

It would become completely useless against super tanks, since the amount of damage a Templar can cause in 5 seconds to a blocking target is tiny.

In order to hit the 10k (approx.) cap in PvP, the Templar would have to do 30k damage in those 5 seconds. Nobody takes 30k damage in 5 seconds in PvP unless they are asleep or ganked, in which case they are dead anyway.

Your suggestion would once again turn the skill into a huge waste of time/bar space.

Solariken

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

I would be fine with this but I think the skill should also have its own DOT component in addition to the strike damage.

frozywozy

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Yes, also remove the 2 additional debuffs from Power of the Light (stamina morph). There is no reason that one ability should apply 3debuffs on one cast in a game that puts all the debuffs in one single category, stacking additionally from different casters making purging such as Purge / Ritual totally useless. In other words, either find a way to include the minor fracture, minor breach and the ability itself in one single debuff or remove the minor debuffs from the ability entirely.

Fighting a stamina templar using dual wield, 2handed axe offbar for the bleed weaving and rearming trap on a magicka templar consists of spamming extended ritual 90% of the time, BoL 5% of the time and getting cced mid weapon swap the rest of the time. Disgusting, irritating, broken and extremely boring to fight against.

NightbladeMechanics

No - remain unchnaged

I like that other players contribute to the boom, but I think the damage is too high.

I also don't like that they stack on target.

ToRelax

Other - other!

Maybe reduce the percentage of dmg stored by other players. But not just the caster, it's supposed to be a support skill that rewards group play.
I would be more concerned to make it work less well as a zerg enabling tool (don't let any morphs of it stack with each other) and to reduce the impact on squishier targets (introduce a second dmg cap dependent on the target's max hp).

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

danno8 wrote: »

It would become completely useless against super tanks, since the amount of damage a Templar can cause in 5 seconds to a blocking target is tiny.

In order to hit the 10k (approx.) cap in PvP, the Templar would have to do 30k damage in those 5 seconds. Nobody takes 30k damage in 5 seconds in PvP unless they are asleep or ganked, in which case they are dead anyway.

Your suggestion would once again turn the skill into a huge waste of time/bar space.

Isn't everything useless against super tanks anyway?

Izaki

At this point it should be much easier to reach the damage cap.

CP5

Already done unless they reverted it, see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154426/patch-notes-v1-6-5

Backlash
Backlash now ignores the damage caused by other player characters using Backlash. Multiple casters can now all stack Backlash on the same target.
Backlash and Purifying Light morph damage caps are now derived from your maximum magicka.
Removed the cast time for this ability.
Enduring Rays: This passive no longer increases the duration of Backlash.
Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

CP5 wrote: »

Already done unless they reverted it, see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154426/patch-notes-v1-6-5

Backlash
Backlash now ignores the damage caused by other player characters using Backlash. Multiple casters can now all stack Backlash on the same target.
Backlash and Purifying Light morph damage caps are now derived from your maximum magicka.
Removed the cast time for this ability.
Enduring Rays: This passive no longer increases the duration of Backlash.
Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

That's from March 2015, it's changed since then.

CP5

As I don't keep a tab on the templar class all that much, do you know when about it was changed to include other sources of damage? Or am I misreading this patch saying it ignores damage provided by other players?

usmcjdking

No - remain unchnaged

Backlash isn't that bad to deal with.

CP5 wrote: »

As I don't keep a tab on the templar class all that much, do you know when about it was changed to include other sources of damage? Or am I misreading this patch saying it ignores damage provided by other players?

No, Backlash has always worked in this manner. The issue with it working prior to Homestead was backlash only took 15% of the damage which could be further mitigated by armor/blocking.

Basically, the skill was completely useless in PVP.

arkansas_ESO

Not sure where the idea that POTL/Purifying Light is only overperforming in a group context came from; it's still very easy to pump out 6-7k POTLs when you're completely by yourself if you're running the right build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfCDONFh3lw

The issue is that certain mechanics (ex. bleeds from skills like Blood Craze are unblockable and ignore armor resist values, Biting Jabs is undodgeable, etc.) allow you to bypass the intended counterplay of POTL, which is to block and dodge in the 6 seconds before it explodes to minimize the amount of damage it builds up, so that you can consistently pump out huge POTLs. At the same time, if you look at how hard POTL hits on builds that aren't running things like bleeds, it really isn't that threatening. If anything, it's kind of lackluster.

I'd rather see POTL and Purifying changed to work like Curse in that it's a flat value that scales with your max stamina/magicka and weapon/spell damage. This nerfs the overperforming builds while buffing the underperforming builds, and increases build diversity for Templar (atm you're shooting yourself in the foot unless you're running DW with bleeds on stamplar.)

Also, damage after time abilities shouldn't stack on targets in PVP, regardless of morph. This goes for Curse, POTL, and whatever ZOS might introduce in the future.

Stratforge

Other - other!

Other. That stupid skill should be scrapped entirely. No more free damage for bads.

DannyLV702

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Rip when getting zerged. There isn't a single time that it isn't applied on me

Joy_Division

No - remain unchnaged

Your change would make this skill bad because it's designed as a support skill - other people are supposed to be contributing damage. With battle-spirit it would be pretty much impossible because it only stores a small portion to begin with.

The proposal would make the skill akin to what it was before this patch, when it was worthless and nobody used it

Meanwhile, curse explodes faster, requires nothing else, and will explode again.

White wabbit

No - remain unchnaged

God another nerf to a Templar what a surprise

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Joy_Division wrote: »

Your change would make this skill bad because it's designed as a support skill - other people are supposed to be contributing damage. With battle-spirit it would be pretty much impossible because it only stores a small portion to begin with.

The proposal would make the skill akin to what it was before this patch, when it was worthless and nobody used it

Meanwhile, curse explodes faster, requires nothing else, and will explode again.

Okay, so everyone contributes to damage, but lower the damage numbers? As you say, a support skill should not be doing more then an ultimate every 6 seconds.

Unsure how curse is relevant? You are comparing Sorcs "spammable"ish dps skill to a Templar burst / support skill? PotL does have a longer duration, but it is also guaranteed higher burst then curse in a xv1. No one (I've seen) uses the second explosion, it is totally useless, unsure of relevancy again.

Edit: I know the old version was terribad, and I want this skill to be useful, but in it's current form it becomes exponentially stronger when used in xv1. Stamplar was going to be my next grind project, I know this skill can be useful 1v1 or 1vx without being stupidly overpowered xv1.

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Alternative proposal: What if it increased the damage done of all attacks by 18% for either 6 seconds or until the damage cap reached?

Does not effect dps, does not add burst larger then an ultimate.

danno8

No - remain unchnaged

Taylor_MB wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

It would become completely useless against super tanks, since the amount of damage a Templar can cause in 5 seconds to a blocking target is tiny.

In order to hit the 10k (approx.) cap in PvP, the Templar would have to do 30k damage in those 5 seconds. Nobody takes 30k damage in 5 seconds in PvP unless they are asleep or ganked, in which case they are dead anyway.

Your suggestion would once again turn the skill into a huge waste of time/bar space.

Isn't everything useless against super tanks anyway?

Poisons aren't.

Also keep in mind the Templar arsenal for any kind of 1v1. Templars have no cc that can penetrate block, so using this skill "intelligently" and cc'ing just before the boom is basically impossible against any blocking target.

Also Templars main DPS ability is Jabs, which is so easily avoidable for most other classes that can root (DK), teleport (Sorc), maneuver (any stam).

The condition of taking damage is something unique to the skill that no other skill in the game has to contend with. If your suggestion went through, the damage cap would have to go higher (in order to make the skillful use of the skill have a decent payoff), and/or the amount of damage copied would have to be raised to a higher %, so it wouldn't become useless (only popping for 3-4k after 5 seconds and doing decent damage to the target <--why bother? just slot something else!)

You can't create skills with conditional requirements like Backlash and expect them to have the same damage as other skills that don't have to contend with the same conditions.

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Joy_Division wrote: »

Your change would make this skill bad because it's designed as a support skill - other people are supposed to be contributing damage.

Is it?

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

React

Other - other!

This will remove any group application of the skill, a nerf that is both unnecessary and not justified. As a stamplar, I can say that the class DOES NOT NEED any more nerfs. That said, I can see how the ability is overperforming slightly in a group setting.

I'd suggest the skill stay exactly the same, but the damage from others is lowered to a 10% contribution to the buildup.