Should Purifying / Power of the Light only copy damage from caster?

Minno

ToRelax wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Its stupid strong at the moment in groups.

At the very least friendly's should of contribute 25% as much dmg as the caster.

How is it stupid strong?

It does less damage then Curse does...

and curse doesn't require a group beating on the target to hit its cap...It does simply more damage then Power of Light does.

I would be very surprised if that were the case - of course, if the damage cap was lower than Curse, it would be very lackluster in fact. Any information I see online shows a much higher cap though, gonna test it quickly.

Ok, so just from the tooltip values it seems the Backlash damage cap would be around 4 times higher than Curse damage. Both benefit from spell damage, max magicka, elemental expert and thaumaturge, however Curse seems to benefit much more from Elemental expert. With 100 points in elemental expert, Backlash damage cap is more around 3 times as high as Curse damage.

Now these are only tooltip values from the PTS. I didn't test numbers in combat or PvP, so if things are different there, please tell me.

Backlash requires you to hit the player for the percentage requirement. Very very rare to get that full DMG unless you have a perfect rotation. Curse gets that dmg no matter what you do. Because of this it makes sense curse does alot less dmg when compared to the full burst potential.

Uhm, yes? I just wrote Backlash would be very lackluster if it's damage cap was less than Curse damage. Ofc it should be higher.

Edit: since you highlighted that last line: I am just making sure I'm not spreading misinformation by stating my source.

Just adding reasons! Thanks for the initial comment.

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure the skill was designed for Healers to add some DPS to bosses. Stamina morph just changed the game though, but I don't really see anything wrong with the skill. Except maybe the ridiculous visual it puts on my character.

It was not. ZOS told us exactly what they wanted the skill to do. It was to add burst to solo templar damage.

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

Yay for developer notes.

Minno

NBrookus wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure the skill was designed for Healers to add some DPS to bosses. Stamina morph just changed the game though, but I don't really see anything wrong with the skill. Except maybe the ridiculous visual it puts on my character.

It was not. ZOS told us exactly what they wanted the skill to do. It was to add burst to solo templar damage.

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

Yay for developer notes.

My favorite part:

"The copied damage is no longer reduced by Battle Spirit. Note that the final damage done at the end of the duration is still reduced by Battle Spirit."

So that max of 24k, only does 12k . But it can crit! (Right?!)

SneaK

NBrookus wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure the skill was designed for Healers to add some DPS to bosses. Stamina morph just changed the game though, but I don't really see anything wrong with the skill. Except maybe the ridiculous visual it puts on my character.

It was not. ZOS told us exactly what they wanted the skill to do. It was to add burst to solo templar damage.

Fair enough. I was viewing the skill from the beginning though, this last patch is what seemed to change it and put it on people's skill bars. The only people I knew that ran it before this patch were healers (1 exception comes to mind, Templar forum poster from awhile ago).

leepalmer95

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Minno wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure the skill was designed for Healers to add some DPS to bosses. Stamina morph just changed the game though, but I don't really see anything wrong with the skill. Except maybe the ridiculous visual it puts on my character.

It was not. ZOS told us exactly what they wanted the skill to do. It was to add burst to solo templar damage.

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

Yay for developer notes.

My favorite part:

"The copied damage is no longer reduced by Battle Spirit. Note that the final damage done at the end of the duration is still reduced by Battle Spirit."

So that max of 24k, only does 12k . But it can crit! (Right?!)

'Only'

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Minno wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure the skill was designed for Healers to add some DPS to bosses. Stamina morph just changed the game though, but I don't really see anything wrong with the skill. Except maybe the ridiculous visual it puts on my character.

It was not. ZOS told us exactly what they wanted the skill to do. It was to add burst to solo templar damage.

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

Yay for developer notes.

My favorite part:

"The copied damage is no longer reduced by Battle Spirit. Note that the final damage done at the end of the duration is still reduced by Battle Spirit."

So that max of 24k, only does 12k . But it can crit! (Right?!)

Well that part is fair because the initial damage was already halved, so halving it again was a double penalty. There's a reason why no one used it before. It's a good ability now; I use it and it's very helpful bursting down tankier/shielding players. It's just stupid that it magnifies everyone else's damage too.

Lore_lai

Okay - here is my input on it. Talking PvP wise.
While I too think that it is not entirely fair for the skill to store damage from all people, if the skill is to be reworked into storing only one dmg source, it needs to be looked at.

And I'm talking Purifying Light in particular. (The magicka morph).
For some reason it is much, much easier to store up damage on the stamina morph (Power of the Light) - which also has an extremely annoying visual might I add, as a solo dmg dealer.
Whether this is because it is much easier for Stamplar to apply pressure on the target thanks to a multitude of dots and dots that even ignore resistances (like bleed), or because the Magplar toolkit is clunkier, or something is wrong with the morphs - if you want this to be a solo ability, then the two morphs need to be compared and reworked, not just tooltip wise.

Minno

NBrookus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure the skill was designed for Healers to add some DPS to bosses. Stamina morph just changed the game though, but I don't really see anything wrong with the skill. Except maybe the ridiculous visual it puts on my character.

It was not. ZOS told us exactly what they wanted the skill to do. It was to add burst to solo templar damage.

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

Yay for developer notes.

My favorite part:

"The copied damage is no longer reduced by Battle Spirit. Note that the final damage done at the end of the duration is still reduced by Battle Spirit."

So that max of 24k, only does 12k . But it can crit! (Right?!)

Well that part is fair because the initial damage was already halved, so halving it again was a double penalty. There's a reason why no one used it before. It's a good ability now; I use it and it's very helpful bursting down tankier/shielding players. It's just stupid that it magnifies everyone else's damage too.

Problem is, that one player magnification effects PVE and was the major source of why it got changed to the current version in the first place.

Ultimately, any skill translating into zerg v zerg is going to be directly OP. Even if you were to counter this skill with purges, chances are you just missed the 5 Crystal frag procs and GG.

I'd like to test all these abilities for 3v3v3 BG and see if the same problems apply. If the game is balance as 3-6 player teams replacing solo game play, shouldn't we discuss any changes related to that style of play as the bare minimum?

Joy_Division

No - remain unchnaged

ToRelax wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Its stupid strong at the moment in groups.

At the very least friendly's should of contribute 25% as much dmg as the caster.

How is it stupid strong?

It does less damage then Curse does...

and curse doesn't require a group beating on the target to hit its cap...It does simply more damage then Power of Light does.

I would be very surprised if that were the case - of course, if the damage cap was lower than Curse, it would be very lackluster in fact. Any information I see online shows a much higher cap though, gonna test it quickly.

Ok, so just from the tooltip values it seems the Backlash damage cap would be around 4 times higher than Curse damage. Both benefit from spell damage, max magicka, elemental expert and thaumaturge, however Curse seems to benefit much more from Elemental expert. With 100 points in elemental expert, Backlash damage cap is more around 3 times as high as Curse damage.

Now these are only tooltip values from the PTS. I didn't test numbers in combat or PvP, so if things are different there, please tell me.

Backlash does not benefit at all from spellpower. Backlash is also capped. It can't crit. It doesn't care about all those other modifiers that increase Curse's actual damage. Hell, people are reporting the final damage can dodged; I haven't thoroughly tested this to confirm it, but I do see purifys failing to explode on non-templars in my combat log so that is another potential factor that makes Curse the more appealing spell. Tooltip in this case is an inaccurate indicator how these two spells actually play

People may think I am a templar apologist, but I generally comment only on matters in which I am aware of the facts and mechanics.

ToRelax

Other - other!

Joy_Division wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Its stupid strong at the moment in groups.

At the very least friendly's should of contribute 25% as much dmg as the caster.

How is it stupid strong?

It does less damage then Curse does...

and curse doesn't require a group beating on the target to hit its cap...It does simply more damage then Power of Light does.

I would be very surprised if that were the case - of course, if the damage cap was lower than Curse, it would be very lackluster in fact. Any information I see online shows a much higher cap though, gonna test it quickly.

Ok, so just from the tooltip values it seems the Backlash damage cap would be around 4 times higher than Curse damage. Both benefit from spell damage, max magicka, elemental expert and thaumaturge, however Curse seems to benefit much more from Elemental expert. With 100 points in elemental expert, Backlash damage cap is more around 3 times as high as Curse damage.

Now these are only tooltip values from the PTS. I didn't test numbers in combat or PvP, so if things are different there, please tell me.

Backlash does not benefit at all from spellpower. Backlash is also capped. It can't crit. It doesn't care about all those other modifiers that increase Curse's actual damage. Hell, people are reporting the final damage can dodged; I haven't thoroughly tested this to confirm it, but I do see purifys failing to explode on non-templars in my combat log so that is another potential factor that makes Curse the more appealing spell. Tooltip in this case is an inaccurate indicator how these two spells actually play

People may think I am a templar apologist, but I generally comment only on matters in which I am aware of the facts and mechanics.

Ah, thank you. I checked it again and noticed I had used an arcane trait jewelry set before. So Backlash doesn't benefit from spell damage. I do think Curse would be the more useful spell in most, though not all situations. But saying it deals "simply more damage" than Backlash seems to be objectively false.

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

There's no reason Backlash should scale with spell damage, because all the incoming damage already did.

Hempyre

No - remain unchnaged

There's nothing wrong with the skill. By itself it does weak damage, and if a player chooses to stand in the damage while applied, well, that's their choice... All it takes is a quick dodge roll and temporary retreat until it goes off or can be purged.

The fact that it's effective against the tanky/regen builds is a good thing. Frankly, that's what I think it was buffed for in the first place.

I see a lot of the complainers in here in Cyro and I know a bunch that run those tanky/regen specs. You guys are a pain in the ass to kill, this skill evens the field.

Complaining about this skill when you've got a build that can tank out 5+ players really lacks sincerity...

The skill is fine as is. Leave it be.

Escorpiao_Noturno

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

It's broken.

Need a nerf.

Ashamray

Other - other!

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just make it blockable. Right now you can dodge roll the explosion which is absolutely ***. Remove the ability to dodge roll it (since it's an effect on you after all) and just make it blockable (which makes equally little sense but is better for balance).

To be honest I would have preferred they buffer Stamplars in the area they actually need help: Rescource sustain, sustained damage (DPS) and worthwhile magicka utility besides Purify promoting build variety like the DK has - instead of giving us this gimmick burst ability which is either completely OP or useless depending on the scenario and player you play against.

It won't be blockable. Zos wrote double block penalty sucks and they are right. Dodge is just a stupid bug, I've already reported it.

arkansas_ESO

Hempyre wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the skill. By itself it does weak damage, and if a player chooses to stand in the damage while applied, well, that's their choice... All it takes is a quick dodge roll and temporary retreat until it goes off or can be purged.

The fact that it's effective against the tanky/regen builds is a good thing. Frankly, that's what I think it was buffed for in the first place.

I see a lot of the complainers in here in Cyro and I know a bunch that run those tanky/regen specs. You guys are a pain in the ass to kill, this skill evens the field.

Complaining about this skill when you've got a build that can tank out 5+ players really lacks sincerity...

The skill is fine as is. Leave it be.

If it's meant to kill tank specs, then why does it absolutely destroy light/medium specs as well? Make it's damage a percentage of the target's max health if it's meant to kill tanks.