Should Purifying / Power of the Light only copy damage from caster?

Joy_Division

No - remain unchnaged

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Your change would make this skill bad because it's designed as a support skill - other people are supposed to be contributing damage. With battle-spirit it would be pretty much impossible because it only stores a small portion to begin with.

The proposal would make the skill akin to what it was before this patch, when it was worthless and nobody used it

Meanwhile, curse explodes faster, requires nothing else, and will explode again.

Okay, so everyone contributes to damage, but lower the damage numbers? As you say, a support skill should not be doing more then an ultimate every 6 seconds.

Unsure how curse is relevant? You are comparing Sorcs "spammable"ish dps skill to a Templar burst / support skill? PotL does have a longer duration, but it is also guaranteed higher burst then curse in a xv1. No one (I've seen) uses the second explosion, it is totally useless, unsure of relevancy again.

Edit: I know the old version was terribad, and I want this skill to be useful, but in it's current form it becomes exponentially stronger when used in xv1. Stamplar was going to be my next grind project, I know this skill can be useful 1v1 or 1vx without being stupidly overpowered xv1.

Just about every DoT or spammable skill in the game does more damage than an ultimate over the course of every 6 seconds. Should we nerf Reflective Light too?

Curse has very similar delayed burst mechanic and is a natural comparison. If I cast curse and /sitchair, you get crit for 8K after 3.5 seconds and you can't block it or dodge it. And hit you again in 8 seconds for good measure. You say that second explosion is irrelevant, but in this patch there have been times I've seen an enemy curse him, and then realize he's getting 1vX so I walk away. Then 13 seconds later receive a notification in my kill counter the poor guy got killed by an 8K hit. I don't rely on it, but it still happens and an 8K damage burst is very real ... and very dubious since I not doing a darn thing. Curse is a more dangerous spell, yet nerf templars.

It is stronger Xv1 - all skills are more dangerous in such cases - but I do not see 10K damage over 6 seconds (and that's from a glass cannon under optimal conditions) as especially problematic. Especially in light of the curse spell or that a sorc crystal frag or a speced out single snipe will hit for more. Or that block tanks with huge resource pools are so prevalent in Cyrodiil.

By nature templars are the best Xv1 class because the were designed to be the support class. They heal the Xs, their execute depends on the Xs protecting them, even the poorly designed Eclipse would be a devastating Xv1 skill if it worked as intended (a debuff/reflect placed on an enemy whereas every reflect leaves the enemy free to ignore the caster). Agree templars are the most annoying class in an outnumbered situation, but that's just who they are and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with the concept since the idea of teamwork and synergy is something that ought to be encouraged in an AvAvA game and isn't supposed to be weaksauce.

RinaldoGandolphi

No - remain unchnaged

Changing the skill so it only works for the caster would make it useless. It's on of the few skills that's good for dealing with the "tape my right mouse button down" tanks.

It's one of those skills that's also easily countersble with Efficent Purge.

Both stamplar and magplar need this skill to stay as is especially for magplars that do not want to run the sword and board heal tank style.

POL is no more a Xv1 skill then Mages Fury, Beam, Soul Assault, or Impale

Ashamray

Other - other!

It should.
You can't just press a button and do a 12k damage in someone with a lot of mitigation just because several people are charging your spell. But in this case copied damage should be increased.

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

It's one of those skills that's also easily countersble with Efficent Purge.

I rarely have less than 5 or 6 debuffs on me, and I'm not deliberately taking on a crowd. EP never purges the important stuff.

Firerock2

No - remain unchnaged

It should be changed completely and redesigned into a new skill. It was terrible when it only copied caster damage and it's stupid now

I voted the wrong option

arkansas_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Changing the skill so it only works for the caster would make it useless. It's on of the few skills that's good for dealing with the "tape my right mouse button down" tanks.

It's one of those skills that's also easily countersble with Efficent Purge.

Both stamplar and magplar need this skill to stay as is especially for magplars that do not want to run the sword and board heal tank style.

POL is no more a Xv1 skill then Mages Fury, Beam, Soul Assault, or Impale

You can't reliably counter Backlash with Efficient Purge--it only purges two effects at a time, which means you'll often end up purging two snares off you while the Backlash remains, and is too expensive for most builds to spam. I could probably live with POTL if they'd give me a morph of Purge that removed five negative effects from the caster, and reduced the cost.

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is stronger Xv1 - all skills are more dangerous in such cases

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

POL is no more a Xv1 skill then Mages Fury, Beam, Soul Assault, or Impale

That's why I specifically said "exponentially* stronger". Instead of just getting hit my 2 snipe spammers, now their damage is copied for even more free burst. So PotL is a xv1 enabling tool, more so then anything else in the game (are all them poisons still stacking? Maybe not as bad as that).

*Mathematically it's probably not exponential, but you get the point, it's not an even progression based on number of players like other skills are, each player adds like 118% more damage or whatever.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Just about every DoT or spammable skill in the game does more damage than an ultimate over the course of every 6 seconds. Should we nerf Reflective Light too?

Come on Joy, you know burst is king for 95%+ effective build styles, that is not at all a valid point.


I beg to differ curse is a relevant comparison.
1) Curse is NOT buffed by being in a xv1 situation like PotL is (see above). Sure they both have delayed damage component, I'll concede Curse has a higher dps, PotL having a higher burst is not necessarily a problem, but when that burst is guaranteed simply because you are outnumbered (on top of all the other incoming damage), the skill needs reworking.
2) I would 100% advocate for Curse being reverted back to a single 3.5sec explosion, I don't think anyone would care in the slightest if it was changed again. I agree it's an unneeded component.

WhiteMage

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Alternative proposal: What if it increased the damage done of all attacks by 18% for either 6 seconds or until the damage cap reached?

Does not effect dps, does not add burst larger then an ultimate.

No can do! Magplar has no burst without backlash, not after the 21% nerf to RD. Having backlash's burst is the one and only reason I'm ok with that 21% nerf to RD, and the only reason I can kill a magsorc worth his salt (or a tank, which goes without saying).

If something needs to happen, the reduction of damage from friendly sources seems to be a good compromise.

Joy_Division

No - remain unchnaged

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is stronger Xv1 - all skills are more dangerous in such cases

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

POL is no more a Xv1 skill then Mages Fury, Beam, Soul Assault, or Impale

That's why I specifically said "exponentially* stronger". Instead of just getting hit my 2 snipe spammers, now their damage is copied for even more free burst. So PotL is a xv1 enabling tool, more so then anything else in the game (are all them poisons still stacking? Maybe not as bad as that).

*Mathematically it's probably not exponential, but you get the point, it's not an even progression based on number of players like other skills are, each player adds like 118% more damage or whatever.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Just about every DoT or spammable skill in the game does more damage than an ultimate over the course of every 6 seconds. Should we nerf Reflective Light too?

Come on Joy, you know burst is king for 95%+ effective build styles, that is not at all a valid point.


I beg to differ curse is a relevant comparison.
1) Curse is NOT buffed by being in a xv1 situation like PotL is (see above). Sure they both have delayed damage component, I'll concede Curse has a higher dps, PotL having a higher burst is not necessarily a problem, but when that burst is guaranteed simply because you are outnumbered (on top of all the other incoming damage), the skill needs reworking.
2) I would 100% advocate for Curse being reverted back to a single 3.5sec explosion, I don't think anyone would care in the slightest if it was changed again. I agree it's an unneeded component.

I don't agree with the point because you are being specious and misleading. You are just throwing out the word exponentially to exaggerate and are completely misusing the term. POTL is capped specifically so to eliminate the very abuses you are worrying about.

And just because damage isn't burst doesn't mean is goes way or I deal with it without consuming resources and actions. If I am getting Xv1 and get hit with multiple poison injections and reflective lights and crushing shocks; I am going to have to stop what I am doing and consume resources to react.

You seem to have a problem with support skills of the type POTL is. I think your issue is how the skills works rather than how powerful it is...which is not a compelling reason to rework or rebalnce it. It doesn't matter to me if curse isn't buffed in an Xv1 situation. Curse has the same impact, does more DPS as you concede, and is even more noob friendly in that it does that damage without anything done by either the player or their allies. It is, in short, a better and easier skill to use, yet nerf templars. The skill does not need reworking because the game does not need to be balanced according to your preferred play-style. I play a templar and a sorcerer, and I would trade POTL for curse -
even the old Velocious version - and not think twice about it. The minor resistance debuffs are trivial loss in exchange for the faster explosion time and I'd live with a little less potential damage since I am guaranteed the high curse value no matter what, not to mention curse is an AOE.

I see nothing wrong with the idea the in a 4 person group, whoever is in charge can do more than simply say "target X" and instead use a skill that not only outlines X and makes it clear who should be attacked, but also is made more effective if her groupmates do just that. You and others may interpret this a Xv1 trash, but support skills such as this are a staple of fantasy games and make the game more interesting than having AvAvA battles just a bunch of individual duels.

Taylor_MB

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't agree with the point because you are being specious and misleading. You are just throwing out the word exponentially to exaggerate and are completely misusing the term. POTL is capped specifically so to eliminate the very abuses you are worrying about.

That's a bit disingenuous when I specifically took time to add to my post to confirm I didn't literally mean ^2 but I didn't know the correct terminology for it. If each extra person in a fight adds an additional 100% damage, with PotL in the mix they add ~118% except saved up for a burst higher then all ultimates (except maybe Meteor on a MagSorc). I literally *'d exponential to clarify what I meant.

Joy_Division wrote: »

You seem to have a problem with support skills of the type POTL is. I think your issue is how the skills works rather than how powerful it is...which is not a compelling reason to rework or rebalnce it...yet nerf templars.

Now this is deliberately misleading . Two posts now you imply I'm on some of vendetta against Templars which simply isn't true, and no idea how you managed to extrapolate my posts here to having a problem with all support skills. I see a skill which I believe is fine and balanced in 1v1's, but significantly enables the zerg in xv1, and would like to see it rebalanced. It just happens to be a Templar skill which I understand is your native class, but honestly it is not personal.
• 1v1 it requires the caster to maintain pressure and high damage numbers for it to be effective - in my view balanced
• xv1 it goes above and beyond anything else (again, except maybe poisons if they are all still stacking) to enable the x by adding raw burst damage

Why is having issue with how a skill works not a compelling reason for rebalancing? To be perfectly clear, I think it is too powerful in xv1 scenarios, but this is exactly because of how it works. So rather then just call for a damage nerf I'm actually tying to work on the root cause, which is how the skill works significantly enabling xv1'ing more then anything else.


Edit: If I was to clarify the imbalance I see with this skill as succinctly as possible it would be this - a semi-spammable skill should not be doing damage higher then an ultimate without conditions attached to it.
• Frags: RNG
• Merciless Resolve: 4 light attacks
• PotL 1v1: requires sustained pressure careful use of ultimate
• PotL xv1: requires nothing

oibam

No - remain unchnaged

Use purge?

Zinaroth

Other - other!

Just make it blockable. Right now you can dodge roll the explosion which is absolutely ***. Remove the ability to dodge roll it (since it's an effect on you after all) and just make it blockable (which makes equally little sense but is better for balance).

To be honest I would have preferred they buffer Stamplars in the area they actually need help: Rescource sustain, sustained damage (DPS) and worthwhile magicka utility besides Purify promoting build variety like the DK has - instead of giving us this gimmick burst ability which is either completely OP or useless depending on the scenario and player you play against.

frozywozy

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

ToRelax

Other - other!

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Not sure where the idea that POTL/Purifying Light is only overperforming in a group context came from; it's still very easy to pump out 6-7k POTLs when you're completely by yourself if you're running the right build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfCDONFh3lw

The issue is that certain mechanics (ex. bleeds from skills like Blood Craze are unblockable and ignore armor resist values, Biting Jabs is undodgeable, etc.) allow you to bypass the intended counterplay of POTL, which is to block and dodge in the 6 seconds before it explodes to minimize the amount of damage it builds up, so that you can consistently pump out huge POTLs. At the same time, if you look at how hard POTL hits on builds that aren't running things like bleeds, it really isn't that threatening. If anything, it's kind of lackluster.

I'd rather see POTL and Purifying changed to work like Curse in that it's a flat value that scales with your max stamina/magicka and weapon/spell damage. This nerfs the overperforming builds while buffing the underperforming builds, and increases build diversity for Templar (atm you're shooting yourself in the foot unless you're running DW with bleeds on stamplar.)

Also, damage after time abilities shouldn't stack on targets in PVP, regardless of morph. This goes for Curse, POTL, and whatever ZOS might introduce in the future.

I don't really see a problem with these numbers for solo play? Curse and Frags provide much higher burst than this.

Valencer

Joy_Division wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is stronger Xv1 - all skills are more dangerous in such cases

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

POL is no more a Xv1 skill then Mages Fury, Beam, Soul Assault, or Impale

That's why I specifically said "exponentially* stronger". Instead of just getting hit my 2 snipe spammers, now their damage is copied for even more free burst. So PotL is a xv1 enabling tool, more so then anything else in the game (are all them poisons still stacking? Maybe not as bad as that).

*Mathematically it's probably not exponential, but you get the point, it's not an even progression based on number of players like other skills are, each player adds like 118% more damage or whatever.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Just about every DoT or spammable skill in the game does more damage than an ultimate over the course of every 6 seconds. Should we nerf Reflective Light too?

Come on Joy, you know burst is king for 95%+ effective build styles, that is not at all a valid point.


I beg to differ curse is a relevant comparison.
1) Curse is NOT buffed by being in a xv1 situation like PotL is (see above). Sure they both have delayed damage component, I'll concede Curse has a higher dps, PotL having a higher burst is not necessarily a problem, but when that burst is guaranteed simply because you are outnumbered (on top of all the other incoming damage), the skill needs reworking.
2) I would 100% advocate for Curse being reverted back to a single 3.5sec explosion, I don't think anyone would care in the slightest if it was changed again. I agree it's an unneeded component.

I don't agree with the point because you are being specious and misleading. You are just throwing out the word exponentially to exaggerate and are completely misusing the term. POTL is capped specifically so to eliminate the very abuses you are worrying about.

And just because damage isn't burst doesn't mean is goes way or I deal with it without consuming resources and actions. If I am getting Xv1 and get hit with multiple poison injections and reflective lights and crushing shocks; I am going to have to stop what I am doing and consume resources to react.

You seem to have a problem with support skills of the type POTL is. I think your issue is how the skills works rather than how powerful it is...which is not a compelling reason to rework or rebalnce it. It doesn't matter to me if curse isn't buffed in an Xv1 situation. Curse has the same impact, does more DPS as you concede, and is even more noob friendly in that it does that damage without anything done by either the player or their allies. It is, in short, a better and easier skill to use, yet nerf templars. The skill does not need reworking because the game does not need to be balanced according to your preferred play-style. I play a templar and a sorcerer, and I would trade POTL for curse -
even the old Velocious version - and not think twice about it. The minor resistance debuffs are trivial loss in exchange for the faster explosion time and I'd live with a little less potential damage since I am guaranteed the high curse value no matter what, not to mention curse is an AOE.

I see nothing wrong with the idea the in a 4 person group, whoever is in charge can do more than simply say "target X" and instead use a skill that not only outlines X and makes it clear who should be attacked, but also is made more effective if her groupmates do just that. You and others may interpret this a Xv1 trash, but support skills such as this are a staple of fantasy games and make the game more interesting than having AvAvA battles just a bunch of individual duels.

And this mentality is why cyrodiil sucks now.

Support builds should be very hard to kill when focused down (with very little thought required), able to keep everyone around them alive indefinitely, AND score burst hits that rival a damage-focused magicka sorc just because they have a lot of friends focusing the same target (despite having NO investment into damage whatsoever)?

God, it's so easy to be an effective support player these days. No wonder everyone seems to have a heavy armour healbot alt.

maxjapank

No - remain unchnaged

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

frozywozy

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

Kr3do

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

It doesnt make any sense that heavy armor healbots with no spell damage put that on me and it hits me for 9k because their 10 friends are beating me up

maxjapank

No - remain unchnaged

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

? I think you're trying to say something, but .... ?

Rohaus

Other - other!

The skill needs a serious overhaul... however, in its current form, it completely decimates permanent blocking tanks... I wish the same could be said for ridiculous Mag Sorcs who can tank damage better than anything else in the game... key is to be mobile and spam bubbles.

Proposal:

Only copies damage of the one who places. However, it either needs to be able to crit or the timer reduced and absorb of damage is much higher... 3 seconds and copies 50% of damage...

Most likely ZOS will nerf this ability and not do something to offset the change which will inevitably lead to people not using it any longer...

I am a huge fan of this ability because it gives Templars solid burst potential. Without it, Templars would be relegated back to only being good healers...

frozywozy

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

? I think you're trying to say something, but .... ?

Yeah I'm trying to say that I got Grand Overlord on my magicka templar in 8months and have a pretty fair understanding of the class mechanics to realize that Backlash is overperforming just like Radiant Destruction was.

Lore_lai

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

? I think you're trying to say something, but .... ?

Yeah I'm trying to say that I got Grand Overlord on my magicka templar in 8months and have a pretty fair understanding of the class mechanics to realize that Backlash is overperforming just like Radiant Destruction was.

Okay this has to be the most stupid and irrelevant argument ever brought to a discussion.

NBrookus

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just make it blockable. Right now you can dodge roll the explosion which is absolutely ***. Remove the ability to dodge roll it (since it's an effect on you after all) and just make it blockable (which makes equally little sense but is better for balance).

I don't think it should be blockable. Much of the incoming damage was blockable in the first place and templars have very little that can't be blocked. In a 1v1 versus a block build, the skill will be totally useless.

I would be fine with it being unblockable, undodgeable and unreflectable if 1) only the caster's damage was copied and 2) there was a viable purge option for players other than templars.

Even if purge were possible effect of potions, it would open up some options to the increasing number of skills that only have purge as a counter. I doubt we'll be getting another alchemy overhaul tho.

maxjapank

No - remain unchnaged

Lore_lai wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

? I think you're trying to say something, but .... ?

Yeah I'm trying to say that I got Grand Overlord on my magicka templar in 8months and have a pretty fair understanding of the class mechanics to realize that Backlash is overperforming just like Radiant Destruction was.

Okay this has to be the most stupid and irrelevant argument ever brought to a discussion.

Hahaha. Was gonna say the same thing, but you beat me to it.

manny254

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

Did you really just say that? That does not make any kind of sense as an argument. There are grand overlords that lack basic understanding of game mechanics. AR rank has no reflection on skill or even game knowledge for that matter.

frozywozy

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

manny254 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

Did you really just say that? That does not make any kind of sense as an argument. There are grand overlords that lack basic understanding of game mechanics. AR rank has no reflection on skill or even game knowledge for that matter.

I never said that an alliance rank reflects the skills. One doesn't need to have skills to understand that an ability is overperforming. The alliance rank simply demonstrates that I have spent alot of time playing the class and have the experience and the knowledges to share my opinion in this thread.

manny254

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

Did you really just say that? That does not make any kind of sense as an argument. There are grand overlords that lack basic understanding of game mechanics. AR rank has no reflection on skill or even game knowledge for that matter.

I never said that an alliance rank reflects the skills. One doesn't need to have skills to understand that an ability is overperforming. The alliance rank simply demonstrates that I have spent alot of time playing the class and have the experience and the knowledges to share my opinion in this thread.

So then why did you try to point out how fast you got the AR? Once again having that rank does not indicate any knowledge, and is not even guaranteed to show experience. You can get GO by repairing walls, and afk ing at a keep. So do not try to use it as an argument.

Grumble_and_Grunt

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just make it blockable. Right now you can dodge roll the explosion which is absolutely ***. Remove the ability to dodge roll it (since it's an effect on you after all) and just make it blockable (which makes equally little sense but is better for balance).

To be honest I would have preferred they buffer Stamplars in the area they actually need help: Rescource sustain, sustained damage (DPS) and worthwhile magicka utility besides Purify promoting build variety like the DK has - instead of giving us this gimmick burst ability which is either completely OP or useless depending on the scenario and player you play against.

As it stands PL is the only useful skill that goes through block besides luminous shards for Templars. Of all possible changes to the skill this would be the most crippling and the worst.

It is the only burst potential Templar has. Reduce dmg by all means, make the dmg only account for the user, but making it blockable would render it useless. Blocking after 6 seconds after however much dmg you pumped into them beforehand would completely destroy the skill whilst on the other hand curse which is equally one of the stronger skills this patch especially in Xv1 is unblockable and undodgeable unlike PL at the moment

Joy_Division

No - remain unchnaged

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't agree with the point because you are being specious and misleading. You are just throwing out the word exponentially to exaggerate and are completely misusing the term. POTL is capped specifically so to eliminate the very abuses you are worrying about.

That's a bit disingenuous when I specifically took time to add to my post to confirm I didn't literally mean ^2 but I didn't know the correct terminology for it. If each extra person in a fight adds an additional 100% damage, with PotL in the mix they add ~118% except saved up for a burst higher then all ultimates (except maybe Meteor on a MagSorc). I literally *'d exponential to clarify what I meant.

Joy_Division wrote: »

You seem to have a problem with support skills of the type POTL is. I think your issue is how the skills works rather than how powerful it is...which is not a compelling reason to rework or rebalnce it...yet nerf templars.

Now this is deliberately misleading . Two posts now you imply I'm on some of vendetta against Templars which simply isn't true, and no idea how you managed to extrapolate my posts here to having a problem with all support skills. I see a skill which I believe is fine and balanced in 1v1's, but significantly enables the zerg in xv1, and would like to see it rebalanced. It just happens to be a Templar skill which I understand is your native class, but honestly it is not personal.
• 1v1 it requires the caster to maintain pressure and high damage numbers for it to be effective - in my view balanced
• xv1 it goes above and beyond anything else (again, except maybe poisons if they are all still stacking) to enable the x by adding raw burst damage

Why is having issue with how a skill works not a compelling reason for rebalancing? To be perfectly clear, I think it is too powerful in xv1 scenarios, but this is exactly because of how it works. So rather then just call for a damage nerf I'm actually tying to work on the root cause, which is how the skill works significantly enabling xv1'ing more then anything else.


Edit: If I was to clarify the imbalance I see with this skill as succinctly as possible it would be this - a semi-spammable skill should not be doing damage higher then an ultimate without conditions attached to it.
• Frags: RNG
• Merciless Resolve: 4 light attacks
• PotL 1v1: requires sustained pressure careful use of ultimate
• PotL xv1: requires nothing

How am I being disingenuous if you are intentionally using misleading terms? Don't use them in the first place. It's akin to the practice of tabloid newspapers using sensational (and wrong) headlines just to get people to read articles.

Read what the developers had to say about this ability

We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we increased the amount of copied damage. This increase is higher in Cyrodiil to account for both Battle Spirit and the play styles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks.

Making the damage unblockable ensures it behaves consistently when compared to Daedric Curse. Both those abilities are similar in functionality and how they thematically apply their damage. This also ensures that Backlash is not double penalized by block, since some of the damage it copies will likely be blocked or avoided by enemies seeking to minimize Backlash’s final attack. Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage.

Changing Backlash’s final damage so it no longer critically strikes prevents the Templar from reaching the damage cap too easily with a high Critical Strike rating.

You're trying to tell me that these two are different (one is fine, one is an Xv1 enabler) and the devs are telling me POTL behaves consistently when compared to Daedric Curse! I have thousands of hours played on both my templar and my sorcerer, I believe the devs over you, sorry.

I'm trying to put my brain as to what makes the sorcerer one so distinctive according to you and from what you have posted it seems pretty clear to me that it boils down to the templar skills gets its damage via other people (it's Xv1) whereas the sorcerer skill doesn't.

POTL is fine and balanced in an 1v1? Read the skill and the dev comment again. "Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage." Backlash only copies 18% of the incoming damage, which as the devs pointed out, is subject to mitigation by the target, not to mention the target can do thing such as CCing the templar, move around a tree, or pressure the templar with poison injections,venomous claws, etc - skills you downplay because they aren't burst - and force the templar to heal herself rather than contribute to the POTL damage pool. Point is, the skill is marginal at best in a 1v1 as it is very hard for a solitary templar to actually get full value for the spell. No doubt intended by the way. Saying that you think it's fine and balanced in such a scenario is saying you feel a weakened version of the skill is the correct one.

Meanwhile, the similar in functionality and consistently comparable Daedric Curse always gets its burst in 3.5 seconds if the sorcerer does /sitchair.

The sorcerer spell is consistent, better, and much more noob friendly of a skill in a 1v1 scenario...yet you want to nerf POTL. Somehow you like POTL in 1v1 because "it requires the caster to maintain pressure and high damage numbers for it to be effective," yet Daedric Curse is the antithesis of this mechanic. And I'm still baffled how this spell is "stupidly overpowered" in an Xv1 scenario when it's damage is capped and a sorcerer's crit Curse that is comparable in damage can happens twice in 7 seconds whereas POTL is every 6 seconds. How am I supposed to reconcile this?

When templars disagree with you, it's not necessary because we are biased. It's because we know an understand the spell better than you and can recognize when you good intentioned proposals would make this spell useless. If you played a templar long enough, then you would know that just taking the templar's damage output would turn the skill back into the useless PvP crap it was before the patch and worse always and in every way than its comparable Daedric Curse.

If you really didn't have an issue with the spell's actual power, to make it reliant on the actual caster than the "x" in the proverbial Xv1, then the 82% reduction to the copied damage from the caster's would have to be changed and significantly so. But doing so would probably be pointless because if a templar was able to reach that cap by herself, then that would not help at all the target since in an Xv1 it would still be taking the exact same damage form POTL.

And as of right now, the POTL final damage is dodgeable, which makes this spell absolutely worse than Curse. Just install and add-on that counts down from 6 seconds when you are hit from the spell and you won't have to lobby the devs to nerf the spell.

frozywozy

Yes - only copy damage from person that applied it

manny254 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Yet, another post where our truly and respected Lord of the Zerg Surfer Templar defend zergling tool just like he did with Radiant Destruction to make sure that the unavoidable and obvious nerf is delayed by 6 months or more. Again, this skill is overperforming, especially the stamina version because it applies 3 debuffs in a game where all debuffs are in the same category, making purging a real nightmare.

And yet another post from you trying to nerf something that doesn't need nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

Wait, what's your alliance rank again?

Did you really just say that? That does not make any kind of sense as an argument. There are grand overlords that lack basic understanding of game mechanics. AR rank has no reflection on skill or even game knowledge for that matter.

I never said that an alliance rank reflects the skills. One doesn't need to have skills to understand that an ability is overperforming. The alliance rank simply demonstrates that I have spent alot of time playing the class and have the experience and the knowledges to share my opinion in this thread.

So then why did you try to point out how fast you got the AR? Once again having that rank does not indicate any knowledge, and is not even guaranteed to show experience. You can get GO by repairing walls, and afk ing at a keep. So do not try to use it as an argument.

Some people think they are good by farming EP pugs at Arrius mine early morning and by sending rage tells when good players show up to ruin their fun. If I have to pick between someone who got GO in 8months or someone who farm CP250 EP pugs at a ressource to determine if Backlash is OP or not, I think the answer is obvious.