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Battlegrounds: Dead on Arrival?

Rickter
Rickter
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I wrote this in another thread and i dont want to derail and i'm legitimately wondering what people's opinions are about this:
Rickter wrote: »
Battlegrounds will be fun for a very short time.

between Warden OPness and cheese proc sets, you'll never have a good time.

It'll turn into very streamlined meta builds/sets and IF you want your team to not get "EXPOSED" in 10 seconds flat, you will have to conform to that meta so its unkillable dmg dealing tanks versus unkillable dmg dealing tanks.

Im calling it: Battlegrounds = Dead On Arrival

So what do you think? Take CP away, dont even think about it. Let's talk

POISONS
LAUNCH WARDEN OVER POWERED
PROC SETS
STACKED TEAMS
STREAMLINED FORCE FED META

In the current (or even what we know about BGs now) state of ESO PvP - can you honestly say BGs will be a welcome and awesome addition to the game?

UPDATE: Im not adamantly against Battlegrounds despite what the knee jerk fanboys presumably think. I was asking a legitimate question based on the current and known about the future state of things. I was genuinely curious whether players thought BG was a good idea given the issues already present in the game that i listed in my OP.

I stop talking about CP - like my question explicitly stated to take the CP factor out of the equation and look at the OTHER compounded issues facing small v small arena combat.

@Lexxypwns honestly lays out exactly what my concern is. maybe you all like his tone better than mine, but this is the truth in my eyes, whatever way you want to slice it:

Lexxypwns wrote: »
Obviously this kind of *** is gonna be a problem though. You, I, and anyone with a brain can see it. Its not like cyrodiil where you can pick a different keep to fight at or zerg them down. I'm not advocating zerging, but let's face it, that's how PUGS compete with skilled players atm, in battlegrounds you can at most outnumber someone 2-1 and even then you have to worry about getting caught in aoe crossfire while trying to beat the more organized group.
Edited by Rickter on September 18, 2017 3:55PM
RickterESO
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Battlegrounds: Dead on Arrival? 211 votes

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
57%
IcyDeadPeopleMorbashCavalryPKSolarikenJoy_DivisionXexpoDeadlyReclusekadardeepseamk20b14_ESOGlassHalfFullgrim_tacticsMurderMostFoulIxtyrKaslolo_01b16_ESOPhilhypemoutonTurelusJitterbugAvaglaor 122 votes
No - BGs are DOA
42%
AlomarShaggygamingKikazaruGilvotharkansas_ESOMojmirRainwhisperOlernssewallb14_ESOTaonnorIzanagi.Xiiib16_ESOKnootewootcbaudersub17_ESOSPE825fedor-ilyineb17_ESOPotenzaStigantBuggeXIdinuseHuckdabuck 89 votes
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    It's going to be awesome when I turn up with no gear on. :trollface:

    In seriousness though, it'll be good. All you said is probably true but at least you'll have hit and miss matches and they'll be short enough to get into some more hit ones when you're sulking over the misses.
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  • bubbygink
    bubbygink
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    I think it is good to point out potential problems that will arise in BGs and for the most part I agree with the issues you've brought up. But I think it is a gross overstatement to say "battlegrounds will be dead on arrival." Despite some problems I think they will still be a ton of fun. Additionally, we don't know what kind of balance changes are coming yet so hopefully some of these issues are being addressed.
  • Kas
    Kas
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Just copy what ever you deem OP. See if it really is. Even if it is actually so OP every serious player/team has to do the same thing (which I actually doubt), you can still have a lot of fun trying to nail the execution, while you hope for the next patch to mix things up.

    If there is any problem, it's that they want to delay rankings and matchmaking. you simply cannot really let premade 4-mans of highly optimized teams compete against randoms who still skip DLC undaunted dailies or even run dailes in nonvet..
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  • Zeuq
    Zeuq
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Derra wrote: »
    All i´m saying is: I´ve personally never experienced satisfied customers in BGs with no MMR and random vs grp queue.
    It´s not fun for the group slaughtering randoms. It´s not fun for the randoms getting rekt.

    We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.

    It´s going to be great in the beginning when the playerbase largely participates in this - in the process creating less lopsided matches.
    But once interest inevitably begins to die down the flaws are going to show more and more - this is going to drive random/pug players from the BGs and afterwards the only average groups...

    Couple this inevitable process with the fact we´ll only see 3 arenas with 3 gametypes at launch i think the first 4 to 8 weeks are going to be an absolute blast for everyone participating and afterwards it´s going to slow down significantly for anyone not in a highly organised group (much like IC launch).

    Did they say there is no MMR?
    Edited by Zeuq on April 6, 2017 3:21PM
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  • kadar
    kadar
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    LAUNCH WARDEN OVER POWERED
    The only people to have actually played Warden for any length of time (3 days straight), anticipate that they are not terribly OP. I choose to take their word than some forum hero who red some passives from a screen shot, you know?
    POISONS
    PROC SETS
    STACKED TEAMS
    STREAMLINED FORCE FED META
    As it will be a competitive leaderboard system, I'm hoping ZOS will impliment certain rules (no resource poisons). Also: If they do follow through and reduce CP sustain, resource poisons won't even have a place in game and need to be removed/tweaked regardless of BGs.

    Stacked teams will prioritize battles against other premade teams to avoid get 4 leet players with voice comms fighting 4 pugs.Once again, this a competitive system. This means that meta builds will reign (like any other type of competitive content ever, lol). Also: ZOS will be doing quite a few balance changes to sets/classes I expect again given the competitive nature of the expansion.
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  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    No - BGs are DOA
    Battleground is exactly what ESO DONT need.

    I just hope there is a Cyro left, with players, after people get bored with them after a few months.
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Zeuq wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    All i´m saying is: I´ve personally never experienced satisfied customers in BGs with no MMR and random vs grp queue.
    It´s not fun for the group slaughtering randoms. It´s not fun for the randoms getting rekt.

    We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.

    It´s going to be great in the beginning when the playerbase largely participates in this - in the process creating less lopsided matches.
    But once interest inevitably begins to die down the flaws are going to show more and more - this is going to drive random/pug players from the BGs and afterwards the only average groups...

    Couple this inevitable process with the fact we´ll only see 3 arenas with 3 gametypes at launch i think the first 4 to 8 weeks are going to be an absolute blast for everyone participating and afterwards it´s going to slow down significantly for anyone not in a highly organised group (much like IC launch).

    Did they say there is no MMR?

    Afaik there won´t be mmr and when there are no other groups to fight the queue will match premade vs pug.
    Disclaimer: I´ve adopted the forum idiot personality. Every statement that might come of as baiting, non-constructive or insulting is made with genuine heartfelt forum roleplay in mind. Since statements made by idiots are generally not policed in the same way as arguments made by normal forum posters I hereby implore every mod to respect my forum RP with the same kind of standards that the genuine idiots are held to. *incaseofruleviolations

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  • FlyLionel
    FlyLionel
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Hey @Rickter I believe poisons are in this for a dead ass final decision on someone is bound to die, promoting fast pace fighting and screwing over tanks mainly. Truthfully I have never used poisons yet and I can understand why they introduced it to CP. As for why in no CP, maybe healers/noobs have a chance against good players/tanky guys running away with the flag laughing with major mending.

    No idea about Warden, but I place it as a top 3 class in the entire game. Top 2 in utility, fourth or third in dps and top 3 tanks. Very general things I just said but from my eyes and experience this is just a safe class to introduce lol. No idea about stamina, think stam sorc like with great buffs from class but has to dps using weapons.

    No crit from proc sets fam, balanced...

    1 magdk 1stamdk 1 mag templar and either a mag warden or stam sorc. Bro it is inevitable; like open world pvp lol..

    When the festival came out with that maxhealth max stam and recovery DRINK* I just shaked my head watching the meta right before my eyes right after eso live said they are leaning towards no cp BG's. I knew if back in the days when stam used drinks in medium bone pirate would be crazy, but when it came out no one ran drinks, ever. What happened to the crafted recovery set in reapers march? Or heavy attacking consistent to stay in the game? Bone pirate is just a 'no brainer' when it comes to stam (which I main) in no cp medium dps, no idea if those new drinks work with it but it does say drinks for bone pirate. As for magic; lich? Idk there has to be balance and if that pirate setup is going to stay it will be like the old meta. Idiot just use 5 hundings 3 agiity 1p bs 1p kena maelstrom weapons gtfo you're endgame lol..come on Zeni let the players think more, this is hilarious.
    Edited by FlyLionel on April 6, 2017 3:45PM
    The Flyers
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    I think you underestimate the importance of cost reduction CP to unkillable damage dealing do-everything tanks, and the potential for 4 people to coordinate to focus fire single targets down, especially with proper healing debuffs and poisons and potentially without CP.

    Not that they might not be dead in the water. I just haven't formed a definitive opinion yet. The matchmaking and queue systems will greatly impact their success as well.
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  • Vitaely
    Vitaely
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Rickter wrote: »
    POISONS
    LAUNCH WARDEN OVER POWERED
    PROC SETS
    STACKED TEAMS
    STREAMLINED FORCE FED META
    All these options already apply to Cyrodiil PVP. You are right in saying some aspects of pvp is broken, these should be discussed in larger scale, not only in terms of battlegrounds.

    At least Battleground PVP will have clearer rules and equal odds.

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  • alephthiago
    alephthiago
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    80%

    No - BGs are DOA
    20%



    .....kek

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  • vamp_emily
    vamp_emily
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    BG = play pin for babies

    I think it will be a success, but expect the forum to be filled with more "waaaa I got my tush hurt, nurf this and that" types of threads.


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  • Rickter
    Rickter
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    Derra wrote: »
    All i´m saying is: I´ve personally never experienced satisfied customers in BGs with no MMR and random vs grp queue.
    It´s not fun for the group slaughtering randoms. It´s not fun for the randoms getting rekt.

    We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.

    It´s going to be great in the beginning when the playerbase largely participates in this - in the process creating less lopsided matches.
    But once interest inevitably begins to die down the flaws are going to show more and more - this is going to drive random/pug players from the BGs and afterwards the only average groups...

    Couple this inevitable process with the fact we´ll only see 3 arenas with 3 gametypes at launch i think the first 4 to 8 weeks are going to be an absolute blast for everyone participating and afterwards it´s going to slow down significantly for anyone not in a highly organised group (much like IC launch).
    Vitaely wrote: »
    Rickter wrote: »
    POISONS
    LAUNCH WARDEN OVER POWERED
    PROC SETS
    STACKED TEAMS
    STREAMLINED FORCE FED META
    All these options already apply to Cyrodiil PVP. You are right in saying some aspects of pvp is broken, these should be discussed in larger scale, not only in terms of battlegrounds.

    At least Battleground PVP will have clearer rules and equal odds.

    yes they are affecting PvP now, but in a controlled environment with smaller groups - these advantages are far more compounded than open world pvp.

    @Derra gets it. he sees the truth
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    All i´m saying is: I´ve personally never experienced satisfied customers in BGs with no MMR and random vs grp queue.
    It´s not fun for the group slaughtering randoms. It´s not fun for the randoms getting rekt.

    We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.

    It´s going to be great in the beginning when the playerbase largely participates in this - in the process creating less lopsided matches.
    But once interest inevitably begins to die down the flaws are going to show more and more - this is going to drive random/pug players from the BGs and afterwards the only average groups...

    Couple this inevitable process with the fact we´ll only see 3 arenas with 3 gametypes at launch i think the first 4 to 8 weeks are going to be an absolute blast for everyone participating and afterwards it´s going to slow down significantly for anyone not in a highly organised group (much like IC launch).
    Vitaely wrote: »
    Rickter wrote: »
    POISONS
    LAUNCH WARDEN OVER POWERED
    PROC SETS
    STACKED TEAMS
    STREAMLINED FORCE FED META
    All these options already apply to Cyrodiil PVP. You are right in saying some aspects of pvp is broken, these should be discussed in larger scale, not only in terms of battlegrounds.

    At least Battleground PVP will have clearer rules and equal odds.

    yes they are affecting PvP now, but in a controlled environment with smaller groups - these advantages are far more compounded than open world pvp.

    @Derra gets it. he sees the truth

    I don´t know if this will be true.

    It´s just my personal experience i´ve made in 5 other mmos offering battlegrounds over the last 10 years. I´d be happy if it turns out differently.
    I can´t see why it would at the moment.

    Edit: What could circumvent the issues i´ve mentioned would be a large enough playerbase of pugs compared to premade groups - which could happen bc of the 1 megaserver architecture.
    Edited by Derra on April 6, 2017 3:32PM
    Disclaimer: I´ve adopted the forum idiot personality. Every statement that might come of as baiting, non-constructive or insulting is made with genuine heartfelt forum roleplay in mind. Since statements made by idiots are generally not policed in the same way as arguments made by normal forum posters I hereby implore every mod to respect my forum RP with the same kind of standards that the genuine idiots are held to. *incaseofruleviolations

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  • Vitaely
    Vitaely
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Derra wrote: »
    We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.
    And we don't see cries right now? If you don't get hate whispers, you're doing something wrong.

    I do agree, there will come a time ZOS will see the need for MMR and I can just hope they won't make a mess of it.

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  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    The balance will probably be messed up, but it will be fun as hell anyways. I think for a lot of people the BG will become the entire game.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Vitaely wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.
    And we don't see cries right now? If you don't get hate whispers, you're doing something wrong.

    I do agree, there will come a time ZOS will see the need for MMR and I can just hope they won't make a mess of it.

    The problem (from my experience) is that in BGs there is no way to combat this.

    Ie: You can´t bring more people. You can´t go somewhere else for 15mins after dying once.
    Disclaimer: I´ve adopted the forum idiot personality. Every statement that might come of as baiting, non-constructive or insulting is made with genuine heartfelt forum roleplay in mind. Since statements made by idiots are generally not policed in the same way as arguments made by normal forum posters I hereby implore every mod to respect my forum RP with the same kind of standards that the genuine idiots are held to. *incaseofruleviolations

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  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    Rickter wrote: »
    The balance will probably be messed up, but it will be fun as hell anyways. I think for a lot of people the BG will become the entire game.

    another "everyone is AGREEING on my points of concern and then subsequently dismissing them." comment.

    You suggested above it will be dead on arrival. I think regardless of balance problems, battlegrounds will be much more popular than Cyrodiil and IC, possibly even more popular than group dungeons or any other kind of gameplay.
  • magictucktuck
    magictucktuck
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    Yes - BGs are going to be awesome
    with CP hopefully out of BGs i am going to remain hopeful that they will be awesome!
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  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Here's my fears..

    I kind of think Cyro will be dead in the water. I mean with the current off-peak state of play in EU TF and AZ, Anyone who actually wants to fight other players will be gone from Cyro as soon as they get an alternative - and so will only be doing BG's - leaving only the PVDoor crowd in Cyro.

    Now if BG's are successful (and I hope they are) - the PVP population will be able to keep on Pvping.. If not, the PVPers will go back to Cyro... but they will be going back one at a time as each one gets gradually disillusioned with BG's - but they will go to an empty Cyro - see that there's nothing going on there and then simply stop playing.

    If it fails it could be the death of PVP in ESO.

    I really hope it doesn't fail. But I'm really, really worried about premades vs pugs.. That scenario was a nightmare in Warhammer Online where you eneded up within the first 2 mins being spawn-camped - people leaving, others joining only to see whats going on - leave... etc. No fun for either side - at all.
    To work, it HAS to be premade vs premade or Pug vs Pug. Regardless of all the potential cheesebuilds/poisons/procs etc.... those issues will pale in comparison.
    Edited by Biro123 on April 6, 2017 3:41PM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

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