Battlegrounds: Dead on Arrival?

Rickter

I'd say, i hate to be right, but im not

Rickter

Does anyone want to change their vote now that BGs have been on PTS?

Poliwrath

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

If theres enough ppl queuing to where premades are fighting each other, and solo/duos are fighting each other then itll be fine. Otherwise you get 4qs stomping pugs so ppl just stop playing. If thts the case on live theyre gonna die pretty quick to where only a few 4qs will be fighting each other over and over

Rickter

Poliwrath wrote: »

If theres enough ppl queuing to where premades are fighting each other, and solo/duos are fighting each other then itll be fine. Otherwise you get 4qs stomping pugs so ppl just stop playing. If thts the case on live theyre gonna die pretty quick to where only a few 4qs will be fighting each other over and over

which was one of my concerns and something thats being reported on the PTS right now.

sure when live goes live we'll see more people queueing but for how long? how many crushing premade vs 1/2 pug/pug defeats are people going to tolerate before saying screw it?

IxSTALKERxI

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

Does anyone want to change their vote now that BGs have been on PTS?

Battlegrounds are still under NDA. You can only talk about class balance of existing 4 classes.

Derra

One more thing:

Can anyone explain to me where a by design 33% to 67% loss ratio is going to motivate players?

I mean that would be the ideal with match making. In reality it´s only going to be worse for anyone not in the top 5% of the playerbase.

Lieblingsjunge

No - BGs are DOA

It'll be hypehypehype for the first weeks. Then "Meh, I'm travelling back to Cyrodiil, see you!"

Dyride

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

I wonder how much extra server load is going to come with Breath of life "Smart healing" an 180° arc?

SPE825

No - BGs are DOA

All of these issues aside, it'll probably be pre-mades that ruin it for most people. In SWTOR, pre-mades were what made sick of PvP there. I mean there's not a lot you can do about it though. If you separate them, then it'll be huge waits to just play. Just realize if you PUG, you'll most likely get stomped.

With how bad the dungeon queue is, I'm curious to see how successful they are in creating a better queue system here as well.

Rickter

SPE825 wrote: »

All of these issues aside, it'll probably be pre-mades that ruin it for most people. In SWTOR, pre-mades were what made sick of PvP there. I mean there's not a lot you can do about it though. If you separate them, then it'll be huge waits to just play. Just realize if you PUG, you'll most likely get stomped.

With how bad the dungeon queue is, I'm curious to see how successful they are in creating a better queue system here as well.

premades/stacked teams are already a problem on the PTS but its not getting major visibility because people essentially think its the sample size.

the problem is: that "sample size" are the most enthusiastic BGers in the game. sure some like myself will make it regular when the update goes live but right now, those enthusiastic premades are going to be the foundation and backbone that keeps BGs going.

meaning: premades stomping pugs all day. and can you believe people in this thread like @paulsimonps said the queue system was going to filter for that? as if he ignored the dungeon finder track record ZOS already has. . .lol

Rohaus

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Matchmaking will most likely not be all that great... based on my experiences of battlegrounds in WoW, mini-games in Age of Conan, and structured PvP in GW2... I'd say there indeed will be pros and cons... fun times and bad times...

If it winds up where a pug team gets pitted against an organized team... it'll end up with both sides not having a lot of fun... losing badly ends up with team members sitting on the sidelines doing nothing... which means winning side will get bored...

But if you stick with it... you will get fun games...

paulsimonps

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

SPE825 wrote: »

All of these issues aside, it'll probably be pre-mades that ruin it for most people. In SWTOR, pre-mades were what made sick of PvP there. I mean there's not a lot you can do about it though. If you separate them, then it'll be huge waits to just play. Just realize if you PUG, you'll most likely get stomped.

With how bad the dungeon queue is, I'm curious to see how successful they are in creating a better queue system here as well.

premades/stacked teams are already a problem on the PTS but its not getting major visibility because people essentially think its the sample size.

the problem is: that "sample size" are the most enthusiastic BGers in the game. sure some like myself will make it regular when the update goes live but right now, those enthusiastic premades are going to be the foundation and backbone that keeps BGs going.

meaning: premades stomping pugs all day. and can you believe people in this thread like @paulsimonps said the queue system was going to filter for that? as if he ignored the dungeon finder track record ZOS already has. . .lol

Yes cause we have SOOOoo many people on the PTS for the system to work with.... I would go into more but the QQ in this thread is on a level on its own, and its under NDA.

Rickter

paulsimonps wrote: »

Yes cause we have SOOOoo many people on the PTS for the system to work with.... I would go into more but the QQ in this thread is on a level on its own, and its under NDA.

you can turn a blind eye all you want. but you know practically everything i listed in my OP is true.

youre going to run into super tanky cc tank/healer combos forcing a stale meta
youre going to run into insta cheese/kill proc sets that are more powerful in noCP BGs, lets throw poisons here too
youre going to run into premades dominating pugs and the more that happens the less pugs there will be

this isnt breaking the NDA - this is obvious foresight that people like you continue to supress so that BGs launches dead on arrival.

These are problems that already exist today which will only be magnified in a smaller setting. this is a controlled compact environment where cheese/meta enforcement like the above mentioned is going to make it very unenjoyable for most people.

Rickter

Im reviving this thread now that BGs have officially launched and there is no NDA

were BGs DOA? do you think the current iteration is "fun"? "fulfilling"? Is it what you hoped BGs would be?

Dracindo

No - BGs are DOA

Personally, I would've created another thread, with a new poll, and link to this thread, to get a better view of how many people changed their opinion.

Rickter

Dracindo wrote: »

Personally, I would've created another thread, with a new poll, and link to this thread, to get a better view of how many people changed their opinion.

You're probably right but honestly, I think there is valuable discussion that I want continued rather than referenced.

CyrusArya

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

Im reviving this thread now that BGs have officially launched and there is no NDA

were BGs DOA? do you think the current iteration is "fun"? "fulfilling"? Is it what you hoped BGs would be?

They are extremely fun when the sides are somewhat evenly matched. 4v4v4 with pre mades is some of the most fun this game has to offer. If they allowed us to make our own 12 person matches with pre selected teams instead of random queing, BGs would be even better. Hopefully thats something they implement one day. The issues with lop sided team formations is a failure of the system and execution of BGs, not the design.

The only problems I see with the battlegrounds is how strong stacking proc sets are and how scoring is rewarded on kills. Should be based on damage done and not killing blows. But these issues are not nearly a big enough deal for them to be 'dead on arrival' or any other hyperbolic drivel like that.

timidobserver

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

Im reviving this thread now that BGs have officially launched and there is no NDA

were BGs DOA? do you think the current iteration is "fun"? "fulfilling"? Is it what you hoped BGs would be?

I like battlegrounds. They have 2 major issues.

1. Match making is broken. They should have built a separate match maker for battlegrounds. The dungeon finder hasn't worked right since it was introduced, so using that for battlegrounds was a bad idea.

2. Proc builds are a bit too strong.

Rickter

CyrusArya wrote: »

They are extremely fun when the sides are somewhat evenly matched. 4v4v4 with pre mades is some of the most fun this game has to offer.

Let's be real honest here - how often does this actually happen? I BG'd for 4 hours straight yesterday evening and not once was I in the desirable conditions you just stated.

It's few and far between, just like overworld cyrodiil tbh. Youre living and queuing for that one mythical moment of the day. if youre lucky youll get three.

and its because of the things i stated in this thread over and over as to why the experience is so intangible. thats all i was saying. I think BGs are a great idea. and I think they can be fun. Im not a zergling as you thnk, I solo BG or 3 man BG all day everyday. prior to that i was running 4-8 man sized groups. I know small scale and self sustain and balancing dmg and the fundamentals of core pvp. and BGs just arent fun. there are highlights, there are good matches, but the frequency is much too low to consider the overall experience enjoyable.

in its current state. and had more attention been brought to this instead of the rampant rejection of my opinion in this thread, we may have had a chance.

Joy_Division

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

I don't think Battlegrounds are nearly as dead as you make them out to be.

The biggest issues I have with them are bugs and Zenmiax's paradoxical stance of having CP be an integral part of characterize development, yet removing them for PvP. This leads to problematic balance concerns for all PvP on all platforms, something not just specific to Battlegrounds.

I do think it would be helpful for ZoS to add some sort of rating system because the most discouraging thing about BGs is when I que solo and wind up on a team of randoms against another team that has every member an AvA rank of 40+. I don't play other MMOs or online games that have a BG sort of system, but I think any game is a lot more fun for everyone involved when players of similar skill are matched up against each other.

Edit: Sick and Tired of the 2v2v4 crap.

Rickter

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think Battlegrounds are nearly as dead as you make them out to be.

The biggest issues I have with them are bugs and Zenmiax's paradoxical stance of having CP be an integral part of characterize development, yet removing them for PvP. This leads to problematic balance concerns for all PvP on all platforms, something not just specific to Battlegrounds.

I do think it would be helpful for ZoS to add some sort of rating system because the most discouraging thing about BGs is when I que solo and wind up on a team of randoms against another team that has every member an AvA rank of 40+. I don't play other MMOs or online games that have a BG sort of system, but I think any game is a lot more fun for everyone involved when players of similar skill are matched up against each other.

This was an original intent. ZOS mentioned having separate ranking s in BGs. but somewhere that went out the window. And no, BGs are not dead right this instant. but how long will it survive the longer zos takes to address these concerns? right now, everyone that buys Morrowind wants to try it out. new players will run into this CHEESE and they will say "eff this, im going back to overworld cyro." when that kind of bleeding happens, there will be no one left to BG with.

THAT is my fear. THAT is why i am being so vocal. Im already hearing that EXACT QUOTE. ALREADY HEARING IT.

This is real.

Feanor

I don't say the BGs are dead. But I'm quite sure time is slowly running out for ZOS to fix at least the most blatant bugs, aka queuing and grouping. It's certainly not a stellar effort if you try to fix something for 3 weeks and always end up short. My take on BGs at the moment: Like so many things ZOS did, it's well meant, but not well done.

Etaniel

Am I the only one super annoyed by people who leave and cause the bg to end, without any reward whatsoever? I mean who thought of that system at ZOS?

timidobserver

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Etaniel wrote: »

Am I the only one super annoyed by people who leave and cause the bg to end, without any reward whatsoever? I mean who thought of that system at ZOS?

I usually don't because of the 20 minute timer, but I can understand someone leaving a 4 v 2 v 2.

Feanor

Etaniel wrote: »

Am I the only one super annoyed by people who leave and cause the bg to end, without any reward whatsoever? I mean who thought of that system at ZOS?

It's even better to land in a 2v2v1 and get booted out of the game after 30 seconds because it brightened on the engine that team sizes are not sufficient ...

Etaniel

timidobserver wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Am I the only one super annoyed by people who leave and cause the bg to end, without any reward whatsoever? I mean who thought of that system at ZOS?

I usually don't because of the 20 minute timer, but I can understand someone leaving a 4 v 2 v 2.

I don't personnaly. The two 2 man teams can team up vs the 4 man.
I've won a 2v3v3 before because my team mate was competent, and the opponents weren't. By leaving a game, you waste everyone's time.

timidobserver

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Etaniel wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Am I the only one super annoyed by people who leave and cause the bg to end, without any reward whatsoever? I mean who thought of that system at ZOS?

I usually don't because of the 20 minute timer, but I can understand someone leaving a 4 v 2 v 2.

I don't personnaly. The two 2 man teams can team up vs the 4 man.
I've won a 2v3v3 before because my team mate was competent, and the opponents weren't. By leaving a game, you waste everyone's time.

2v3v3 is fine. Anybody can win that. 2v4v4 is not fine. The 2 team has very little chance of winning. Particularly if the 4 person teams are premades. I once got grouped with a level 39 vs two full premades of people who were all over Alliance Rank 40 and all in the top 20 of at least one leaderboard. There was no winning that. I personally don't usually leave any match because you save time be just taking it, but I do understand leaving a matchup like that.

Also, it's not a complete waste. It convinces you to leave negative feedback which may encourage zos to fix the issue.~~~~>https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4233259#Comment_4233259

DemonDruaga

No - BGs are DOA

Not able to play BG's with my friends was/ is the reason I think BG's will be a wasteland after the hype is gone, like IC was.
When their products finally are finished and working, many people already lost interest because of the frustration they expirienced.

Iyas

No - BGs are DOA

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Not able to play BG's with my friends was/ is the reason I think BG's will be a wasteland after the hype is gone, like IC was.
When their products finally are finished and working, many people already lost interest because of the frustration they expirienced.

exactly

Dr.NRG

No - BGs are DOA

Not dead yet but already proc mania wonderland and infinity que. Soon to be dead, close enough saying dead on arival.