Battlegrounds: Dead on Arrival?

Vitaely

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

The funny thing is: everyone is AGREEING on my points of concern and then subsequently dismissing them.

its almost delusional.

It's not delusional. The people who kept asking for Battlegrounds when they used to be a dream, are the same people who run in smaller groups in Cyrodiil every day looking for good fights only to get zerged at a resource or town.

Derra wrote: »

Vitaely wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We´ll see a lot of balance cries. Instant bg leaves. Cheesebuilds. Whatever.

And we don't see cries right now? If you don't get hate whispers, you're doing something wrong.

I do agree, there will come a time ZOS will see the need for MMR and I can just hope they won't make a mess of it.

The problem (from my experience) is that in BGs there is no way to combat this.

Ie: You can´t bring more people. You can´t go somewhere else for 15mins after dying once.

Don't bring more people! That's the whole point.

Players who depend on having the higher hand by means of numbers will have to work harder on their builds and their gameplay.

Biro123

Vitaely wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

The funny thing is: everyone is AGREEING on my points of concern and then subsequently dismissing them.

its almost delusional.

It's not delusional. The people who kept asking for Battlegrounds when they used to be a dream, are the same people who run in smaller groups in Cyrodiil every day looking for good fights only to get zerged at a resource or town.

Ahh, yes. These are they players who will 4v1 soloers till the cows come home then get salty when they get 16v4'd..

NightbladeMechanics

Biro123 wrote: »

Vitaely wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

The funny thing is: everyone is AGREEING on my points of concern and then subsequently dismissing them.

its almost delusional.

It's not delusional. The people who kept asking for Battlegrounds when they used to be a dream, are the same people who run in smaller groups in Cyrodiil every day looking for good fights only to get zerged at a resource or town.

Ahh, yes. These are they players who will 4v1 soloers till the cows come home then get salty when they get 16v4'd..

I think this is a pretty narrow comment. Most small scalers respect numbers and wouldn't do that unless they have beef with the person or are attacked first.

FlyLionel

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

The funny thing is: everyone is AGREEING on my points of concern and then subsequently dismissing them.

its almost delusional.

There are videos of "infinite sustain" duels where it takes 5-8 people to zerg them down. now imagine a 4 man team of those infinite sustain builds and only 4 of you.

what will happen?

it'll force you to "git gud" aka copy that build as someone said earlier - this is called "the meta" and when everyone is cookie cutter just to compete with the cancer builds, BGs will fall flat.

Bro infinite sustain builds tanking in no cp against 5 people? When? Everyone should be running poisons if that is true, but really? In no cp? If you are talking about cp than yeah, power to the poisons lol..

Rickter

FlyLionel wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

The funny thing is: everyone is AGREEING on my points of concern and then subsequently dismissing them.

its almost delusional.

There are videos of "infinite sustain" duels where it takes 5-8 people to zerg them down. now imagine a 4 man team of those infinite sustain builds and only 4 of you.

what will happen?

it'll force you to "git gud" aka copy that build as someone said earlier - this is called "the meta" and when everyone is cookie cutter just to compete with the cancer builds, BGs will fall flat.

Bro infinite sustain builds tanking in no cp against 5 people? When? Everyone should be running poisons if that is true, but really? In no cp? If you are talking about cp than yeah, power to the poisons lol..

i was talking CP

arkansas_ESO

No - BGs are DOA

@paulsimonps Do you remember the different categories for medals in battlegrounds?

Earthewen

No - BGs are DOA

@Rickter

I voted no, but to be honest, I'm not sure either way. Will it kill the main PVP map? I'm not sure. I can foresee it being fun for awhile, but if the goal is to kill unprepared noobs, and experienced players use those kind of kills to notch their belt with, word will get out. Like IC, I think the numbers will drop off once that starts happening and people might return to Cyrodiil or just leave the game or go back to PVE.

I just don't have enough information on how it will work, getting a team, randomness of the matches, etc. Are the teams evenly matched in gear and CP? It could be fun. The best fights are the ones that are more even in number of players and quality of gear. That's when it really comes down to sheer will and skill. Those are the kinds of fights that melt my butter. ;-D

I am also wondering about the infrastructure of ZOS's systems. They clearly have issues, and can adding this do us any good? I'm withholding my cheers or jeers until we see how many bugs are prevalent in the new content. I would be pretty angry as a subscriber and a pre-purchaser of content if ZOS knowingly sold and released a product that was less than expected.

IcyDeadPeople

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

There are videos of "infinite sustain" duels where it takes 5-8 people to zerg them down. now imagine a 4 man team of those infinite sustain builds and only 4 of you.

I'm cautiously hopeful that the matchmaking system will work as planned. It is supposed to be matching pre-made with pre-made, randoms with randoms and people around similar skill levels.

If it is completely random vs random match, you would be just as likely to end up with some reactive templar etc on your own team as the enemy team. A lot of people find that play style boring, and I suspect you will be more likely to see all kinds of different builds and different skill levels.

And if you run a pre-made match with 12 unkillable builds fighting each other, I suppose they will all just sit on the flag and roleplay until the 15 minute timer is up.

paulsimonps

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

@paulsimonps Do you remember the different categories for medals in battlegrounds?

Dealing damage
taking damage
healing damage
killing people
taking points
earning points

All I can think of of the top of my head. There are more.

Rickter

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I'm cautiously hopeful that the matchmaking system will work as planned.

Come on, Icy. . . you know better than this.

Baconlad

Still think its *** they are implementing so many *** your resource changes. No CP in BGs, removal of sustain CP in TF/ Pve. Implementation of resource draining CP. And nor nerfing poisons. I so check this out.

I run a full heavy armor build max damage (3800) spell damage templar. I have 28k magicka, and only 1200 recovery in TF. I also have removed all cost reduction CP from my build, anf play my build using a lot of heavies, elemental drain and vamps bane (to ensure ele drain proc) for magic regen.

I have recently been venturing out into Azuras to see what all the fuss is about. Im noticing that im getting hit by poisons ALOT. and i go oom VERY quickly. At 24k magic in AZ abd 4400 magick cost for a breath of life, 4700 cost for vampires mist, im dead in the water in a matter of seconds. I would just hate for BGs turn into a "you MUST have poisons to win", it like the game is headed to an extreme where whoever gets their poison off first wins the fight, or a player with 2000 recovery will beat a player with 1000 recovery just because? No longer about player choice.

Mark my words here, there are going to be three builds you find in cyrodil/ BGs after 6 months from release. Youll have tank/ healers, mainly DKs and templars who where regen sets, regen glyphs, one defense/offense set. Although your NBs will still try it out.

Youll have the DPS toons who go full balls to the walls damage and dont get anywhere unless fighting their own kind. The fight will last less then twenty seconds due to ZERO built in sustain. These will be mostly stamina kids and magsorcs, Magblades.

Then youll have the cute kids who dont understand WTF to do. These are filthy casuals..
I dont know, i personally did not see anything wrong with sustain. I dont see anything wrong with tanky players i dontbsee anything wrong with CP in general. Kinda wish theyd leave it in BGs and just take out sustain from CP as intended.

Not a fan of my toon being nerfed for a system to be implemented, then when that system is removed they dont give back what i had before the system? In no CP i lose hugebamounts of resources, *** let me keep them atleast

CyrusArya

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

I think people complain and speculate far too much. As long as there is an avenue for people to outsource the blame for their failures, they will take it. You're just doing it preemptively here, weak.

I also disagree that there is a force fed meta. 4 tanks dps specs will have a real hard time even being a threat to the teams I plan to run with.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the arenas greatly. But you? You are probably correct in feeling apprehension. Don't worry..Cyrodiil will always be there for you to zerg down and feel relevant in with copious support.

IcyDeadPeople

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I'm cautiously hopeful that the matchmaking system will work as planned.

Come on, Icy. . . you know better than this.

Well it depends on the size of the pool, how many copies of Morrowind get sold, how many people queued for BG. Obviously if there are not enough players online, the matchmaking system will just throw anyone in there.

NBrookus

Rickter wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Pre-mades are going to be an absolute nightmare though

so in Cyrodiil overworld, these "premades" are relegated to "small scale" groups and gankers. you can combat this by running in a larger group (for the most part) in BGs there is no countermeasure. what happens when premades farm BGs for the rewards and leaderboards and your pugging experience goes down the drain?

If you think battlegrounds will fail because there will be groups better than yours... well, that's kinda the whole point. You don't get to bring more numbers, you have to bring better play. Or better tactics. Or better builds. Or better team composition.

A lot will hinge on how well the matchmaking system works. I am far more concerned about pugs getting members who are only there to screw around than seriously fight. Compared to just losing, that will be a much more negative experience for the 2 people trying to legit play when they have 2 teammates snickering over the button that makes the blades whirls or seeing if they can swim across the lava fast enough.

Rickter

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think battlegrounds will fail because there will be groups better than yours... well, that's kinda the whole point. You don't get to bring more numbers, you have to bring better play. Or better tactics. Or better builds. Or better team composition.

come on man, dont turn this into a L2P elitist post. The issue isnt what's "better" or whats not. the issue is that your idea of "better play, better builds" etc is forcing people to emulate what the other groups are running and you end up with very few variety meta cookie cutter builds.

I know you dont have a high opinion of my pvp skills and frankly im not really sure of what you heard but until you have a personal conversation with me, please do not pass judgment. I never said i was the best or remotely good, and i have nothing to show for it. I can tell you that i enjoy pvp a lot and I just want an overall fun experience for everyone. not jus tthe select few that spent all day and all night 1vXing. There are a ton of independent, intimidated players that cant simply "git gud." and even more that dont have the connections to get them into a community that will help them "git gud."

so spare me the "get better or dont complain" comments. quite a few people can see where BGs is going to go. you will have cookie cutter builds. you will have people using extreme cheese to climb leaderboards and reap rewards. Its NOT going to be fair for a vast majority. My basis is what weve already seen.

HUMAN NATURE

weve seen the ap farming, the emp flipping, the cheat engines, the cheese builds, the held close to the chest add ons.

weve seen it. its not about "git gud" its about humans being sh***y people.

seriously. spare me.

Cinbri

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Still remember arenas in Neverwinter and it was awesome even when i never played premades there. And there is much more people in ESO, so premades won't ruin it in anyway.

L2Pissue

No - BGs are DOA

battlegrounds? first week fun
2nd week:
4 DK tanks endless sustain ripping everyone
4 templar tanks you damage them with 50 damage and they do 5k to you
4 sorcs 30-40k damage shields and infinite magicka streaking all way around like monkeys

Vapirko

Bringing more content into a game that already has so many issues with current content can only water down the game as a whole even further, end of story.

That all said I think with BGs they should have two queuing systems, one for pre grouped teams and one for only pugs thats completely random. No duos, no trios, just one person queuing at a time. If you want to que with a friend or three then you go into the other one.

Lexxypwns

No - BGs are DOA

If there aren't huge sweeping changes to the pvp combat we currently have and drastic balance overhauls removing basically all 1 shot mechanics AND unkillable builds then battlegrounds is gonna be a *** show.

I honestly think there's going to be such an inordinate amount of one sided matches that it will end up being a pretty toxic environment. How are you gonna feel when you've got your perfectly tuned PVP build and get teamed up with that 2h/resto stam sorc and his hybrid templar buddy against an organized group?

Pre-mades vs PUGS is going to be a huge issue. The way you can build synergy between 4 builds, especially when you know you're not fighting outnumbered, versus 4 mismatched pieces being fit together is grossly unbalanced.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

No - BGs are DOA

I think the BG's will be popping for like a month or 2 until all of my precious PuGs are farmed and exposed to extinction, at that point it will just be super cheese comps running meta builds or DC twitch streamers. Our only really hope is the fact that it is team v team v team. i have a feeling that if one time is too powerful (Example given Meraki's 4 man team) the other 2 teams will double team the OP team. I really hope im wrong though I want BGS to work but there is too many cheese builds and skill gaps between Pugs ,veteran players and 1vX DC streamers.

Strider_Roshin

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

It'll be great for PvPers that hate zergs. I plan to live in BGs when they launch =]

Rickter

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

It'll be great for PvPers that hate zergs. I plan to live in BGs when they launch =]

until you are forced to run a cookie cutter meta build.

even if its not a premade - all it takes is one youtube video show casing a build that dominates BGs and it'll catch on like wildfire.

BG will suffer more from this because there arent as many people to cover up the cheese.

paulsimonps

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

Rickter wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

It'll be great for PvPers that hate zergs. I plan to live in BGs when they launch =]

until you are forced to run a cookie cutter meta build.

even if its not a premade - all it takes is one youtube video show casing a build that dominates BGs and it'll catch on like wildfire.

BG will suffer more from this because there arent as many people to cover up the cheese.

You are not forced to run anything and its not just you in there, and it is a 3 way fight with 4 man teams, there is a lot more flexibility than you think even with "cookie cutter meta" builds. Even if there is a meta on team composition as well if you run a PUG group, which makes you more likely to face another PUG group how will you determine who runs what before hand? you can't. I think PUGing BG will be a melting pot of a lot of cool builds where people either try to go solo and be the best they can for their team that way or make builds that could help other teammates regardless of the other teammates role and build while still being able to contribute singlehandedly too. There is a lot of movement and strategy to a lot of the BG modes and many of them don't always favor glass cannons or in reverse others don't favor tanky toons either, there are lots of flexibility and I don't think that BG will be turned into, "RUN THIS OR LOSE", with only a few builds out there. BG are a lot more situational.

Potenza

No - BGs are DOA

I hope they offer a non-cp battleground - then I will use it. Otherwise not even going in there.

Moglijuana

Yes - BGs are going to be awesome

BG's will be home to the highly organized groups.This does not mean cheese builds will thrive at all, imo the groups with the best synergy (ult usage, item sets that compliment each other, and overall group experience) will always thrive over less organized groups that simply rely on the gear they wear to win.

RadioheadSh0t

Will Warden be overpowered? Yes, it's another ZOS marketing technique.

Will proc sets be finally nerfed? Nope, ZoS has made it clear that they're fine with the cheesiest meta in the history of the game.

Will there likely be bugs and exploits? You could always expect them and still be surprised.

Is ZOS trying to do too much at one time? Yes, and it will likely mean that the QA around BGs and imbalances will suffer.

That said, that doesn't mean BGs are DOA. It does mean that they will likely be dominated by pre-made groups of min/max cheese meta surfers. But after 3 years of Cyrodiil I'm ready for even numbered fights, regardless of how awful the current meta is.

CatchMeTrolling

Can't really say how they'll be to be honest until we get the full patch notes on the big changes coming with Morrowind.

But if they fail I can imagine a lot of people that has been waiting solely for battlegrounds will be done with the game.

Earthewen

No - BGs are DOA

I'm not sure I understand the matching system. Are they planning on analyzing all of the builds and match you accordingly inside the battleground? That is some cause for concern to be honest. Weren't they initiating a "smart loot" system for gear drops? Didn't we all end up with crazy and useless stuff in order to have countless hours of fun farming pledges until our eyes bled?

I'm still curious to see how this pans out and how, if they can't fix the armor drops, loot tables, constant lags and disconnects, loading screens, weapon swapping bug, invisible players, etc., how on earth will this work out? LOL

LeifErickson

Are you seriously calling warden op before it's even out? How many times has this community been absolutely *** about balance in this game? I'm going to try to think of all the times that I remember: heavy armor (people wanted zos to revert the heavy armor changes because they felt it was a NERF), all weapon ults (everyone complained the stam ults were so op while the magicka ones were trash, especially destro ult and 2h ult), magicka sorc/shield change (lol), stam sorc (people, including Fengrush, thought Wrobel nerfed stam sorc instead of buffed them), Templar house (or was that one more of an inside joke?), rushed ceremony change, plus anything I missed.

Publius_Scipio

Warden will suck and people will take to the forums en masse to rage at ZOS that the reason they purchased Morrowind was for the new class, and they want a full refund and all devs fired immediately.

Then Scipio will take to the forums and make fun of all those complaining.