Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Gal · December 2016

this is really really really really really freaking dumb, just change the 5 piece on viper/widow/redmountain, make tremorscale snare and remove extra armor and just make groth/veli have more specific prerequisites to crit rather than just any type of damage It will make it so they aren't proccing as often and will thus balance it out more.

SunfireKnight86 · December 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone in this thread is looking for any reason they can find to lose their minds over this balance tweak. It was clearly overpowered before. So much so that everyone wore them and facerolled all the content in the game. Something needed to be fixed, and this is a happy medium.

Besides, my guild runs new players without those sets through trials (both vet and normal) all the time. New Players. Many of whom don't have the advantage of drowning in CP with high end set items.

You'll forgive me if all this pearl clutching seems a little disingenuous when we used a level 9 toon with a few hundred CP to finish Maw a couple weeks ago.

Jaronking · December 2016

texassob wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

It's not the actual % DPS decrease for PVE - it's the fact that PVE gets nerfed because of PVP whining and crap that annoys me.

I know this may sound crazy, but maybe proc sets are over performing in both PVE and PVP.

Maybe the blame should shift from only pvpers to players pulling 60k+ dps in pve land, burning through most mechanics. There's plenty of blame to go around. I believe @leepalmer95 said it already. It'll be a massive 3% dps decrease if you're running 5-3-2 with a monster set.

Do I think it's going to fix proc sets in pvp? No. The stacking of proc sets will still be an issue.

Do I think it's a step in the right direction? Yes. Toning down the damage done by proc sets is a response to the complaints that have all of us have seen over the past few months. It may not be the change that most of us wanted, but it is a change, nonetheless.

I'm interested to see the rest of the patch notesn specifically interested the possible changes to heavy armor and the destro ulti.

CC: @Jaronking @texassob @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: grammar and autocorrect

Pug lives matter so we won't really fix proc sets #Lambet.

@Ron_Burgundy_79

hahahaha gotta keep the pugs going for standard

Lmao true @texassob but we should start getting back into pvp soon can't only play overwatch @texassob @Ron_Burgundy_79 .

Nifty2g · December 2016

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone in this thread is looking for any reason they can find to lose their minds over this balance tweak. It was clearly overpowered before. So much so that everyone wore them and facerolled all the content in the game. Something needed to be fixed, and this is a happy medium.

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

Just because something is unbalanced doesn't mean you take this route in fixing it. You balance the numbers on the set not remove them. What happens to all the other undaunted sets that will just be completely worthless now? What happens to undaunted dailies, what's the point in even doing them now?

OrphanHelgen · December 2016

I'm just curious @Nifty2g , how do you think your DSA score will be affected with this proc set change?

SunfireKnight86 · December 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

alephthiago · December 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

Ok-ish, i dont know if monster sets should be affected, i hope they are not.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:
The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage

The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)

The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)

Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

NOICEEEEEE

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Never had a problem with it, but ok

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

THANK YOUUUUU, we finally can mount and take care of other business

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

Nice!!!

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Good! We could improve it even more, how about separate boxes only for weapons?

Nifty2g · December 2016

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

Because it's obviously not the correct way to go about it, why would you remove crit chance from PVE content in hopes of balancing PVP content WHEN CRIT CHANCE ISN'T THE ISSUE, IT'S THE SETS.
Please balance the sets not remove something else that will make a whole lot of things useless.

Xsorus · December 2016

I love that people think that Non Critting Proc sets won't make them usable in PVE anymore lol

Anhedonie · December 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

That's...super lazy, guys. Even for you. No offence.

X3ina · December 2016

Rip my thunderbug/storm knight/stormfist - stam sorc tank lol.

Nifty2g · December 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I'm just curious @Nifty2g , how do you think your DSA score will be affected with this proc set change?

@OrphanHelgen I haven't done DSA in awhile, but I don't think it will be affected at all.

Kalante · December 2016

What a huge fail ZOS. Getting rid of crit for proc sets doesn't change a thing in PVP since people can just stack them. Also people run crit resistance and yet proc sets are still very effective. All you have done is create panic among the PVE community because you are nuking a lot of their builds. Also AOE caps... just remove them.

Seriously you guys are so bad at balancing.

Nifty2g · December 2016

I must admit though, it's at the point with these proc sets that no matter what change they go with, it's going to affect PVE and PVP. I just hope they don't stick with the crit chance change. Too many things are going to get hit by this that are't even an issue

Doctordarkspawn · December 2016

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

Speak for yourself. Most of the people I see crying about the difficulty are not the -same- people crying about this. If anything, the people arguing for a harder game are apllauding these changes or not commenting, I'm not seeing -any- of the faces I usually see on those threads.

Sigtric wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Kobiwan_shinobi wrote: »

Lol ZOS simply can not win.

90% of PvE player on forums post IC patch cried that the game was too easy. That they can burn all content without breaking a sweat. That they needed a 'difficulty' setting.

Now let's look at the forum today...

'Not being able to crit a proc is unacceptable. This will surely destroy PvE bla.. bla ......bla'.

As a PvE & PvP player, I think this change is great; Not amazing, but it will do for now. It will lower burst potential in PvP and lower DPS on PvE. Both of which needed to happen. This game has slowly moved away from 'skill' and gone down the route of ease. I am hoping this next update will bring skill back into the equation.

My personal preference would be to completely remove 5pc proc sets from PvP & PvE. I think monster sets are okay, but damage should be decreased by 50% in PvP with no crit.

One problem with proc sets is that people are using them as part of their rotation; Building a character around a proc set(s), rather than adding it to your char to give you a slight boost in potential. Some proc sets can hit harder than ultimates in this game and is one of the main reasons 'balance' is difficult.

If you feel like this change is going to seriously affect you in PvE then maybe you need to git good with your rotations. Idk, maybe start playing content without any proc sets to improve your skill level.

Here's the thing.

It wasn't OP in PVE. It didn't need nerfed.

And telling people to git gud is an excuse for jumping on a bandwagon. The game was designed around the proc sets being used as DPS. ZOS keeps puting these building blocks there for us to use, then suddenly making them disappear.

Git gud at arguement and understanding of basic design.

As far as we know right now proc sets are still available and wont be disappearing (that's a shame)

You're loosing what should be a minimal amount of DPS off the top of procs, which probably never should have critted in the first place.

So yeah, if your character is ruined because suddenly viper's doesn't crit, get good.

Nice strawman.

I dont run DPS. What I'm truely worried about is Sorc and similar setups being inherently nerfed because the only proc set that brought them back into the limelight isn't useable anymore, or similar situations. Certain specs and classes that simply dont have any edge at all because ZOS decided to nerf their cornerstone, without reguard for the consequences.

KimberlyannKitsuragi · December 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

That seems like really good analytical software. May we as consumers get access to the software or is it exclusively employees? It would really help me formulate my bars and such

SunfireKnight86 · December 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

Because it's obviously not the correct way to go about it, why would you remove crit chance from PVE content in hopes of balancing PVP content WHEN CRIT CHANCE ISN'T THE ISSUE, IT'S THE SETS.
Please balance the sets not remove something else that will make a whole lot of things useless.

What are babbling about? They didn't remove crit chance, they just removed crit from set procs.

ookami007 · December 2016

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Does anyone making these changes ACTUALLY play the game?

reesenorman · December 2016

magnusthorek wrote: »

I always played considering the worst case scenario which is what I could do if my attacks didn't crit and because of this personal behavior I learned, more or less, how to stay cool facing such situations in which, because of half of the player base is complaining about something, the other half is screwed as well. So at least for now, I'm cool with these changes.

But since for the first time (as far as I know) we had public sneak peak from one of the top dog bosses in the company, I would like to ask if you or anyone else can do the same bringing news from the PvE side that doesn't refer to Homestead, like, for examplel reducing the zone overhead, specially Alliance Capitals, so we don't have two or three loading screens or even having our bars locked, preventing switching, because the game still loading assets of tons of players

I wouldn't touch the subject of most od Stamina classes/races/combos being much stronger than most of Magicka because I think the people responsible for such balancing do play as Stamina and don't want to get projudiced themselves.

But the performance is the biggest of my concerns because it's what prevents me and lots of fellows from my country to, for example, achieve those stratospheric DPS marks because of our latency.

To be completely fair unless your home internet is really bad then it's no excuse for bad dps and it's not Zos' fault. Many of the better players in this game are in fact Australians with perma 250+ ping.

timidobserver · December 2016

Meri20098 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

That seems like really good analytical software. May we as consumers get access to the software or is it exclusively employees? It would really help me formulate my bars and such

You already do. It's just combat metrics.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2016

Hell, I'm this nervous for this game and I ain' even seen the class changes.

code65536 · December 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

@ZOS_RichLambert

With crits, your three proc sets accounted for 8232 DPS. Without, they accounted for 4779 DPS. It's a loss of 42% efficacy. While "nerfed into the ground" is a highly subjective colloquialism, it does seem pretty apt here.

The better question to ask is whether a set, after losing nearly half of its potency, is still worth using over other sets. That remains to be seen. If there are many sets that get tossed into the trash bin because of this change, then, yes, "nerfed into the ground" would definitely be apt.

That's on the PvE side of things. For the PvP side of things, the biggest complaint about these sets do damage that does not scale with skill. First, because in many cases, these sets mean that someone can just light-attack to proc a large amount of damage. Second, these sets only scale off of CP, not off of weapon/spell damage and max stamina/magicka. When you spec for survivability, you should suffer a loss in damage potential as a result. These sets largely ignore that tradeoff. Now, with the removal of crit, you are only exacerbating this problem, as builds who rely on proc sets suffer no penalty for trading crit for other stats.

In short, for the kinds of heavy-armor PvP builds that rely heavily on procs to bypass the survivability-vs-damage tradeoff, the elimination of crit doesn't really hurt them.

I'm not convinced that the effect in PvE will be as minor as you suggest. The availability of sets like Ilambris and Grothdarr plays a large role in making content like vMoL HM more accessible to more groups. Perhaps that is your intent, and if so, that's fine. But please acknowledge that impact and don't pretend that this is inconsequential.

And in PvP, I am unconvinced that the changes you propose would actually solve the problem of proc sets, and I predict that many of the complaints about them would remain, particularly since the overall effect in PvP will be less than what it is in PvE (because people in general run less crit in PvP, and because of impen in PvP).

The solution for too much burst from these sets isn't to remove crit: it's to change these instant-damage procs into over-time damage so that players can have a chance to properly react (and since PvE is about sustained damage, this would not adversely affect PvE). To solution to proc sets being "cheesy" is to make the damage crittable and make the damage scale off of someone's highest WD/SD and resource pools so that builds that sacrifice these traditional damage stats face the appropriate tradeoffs. Eliminating these sorts of tradeoffs is the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

Edziu · December 2016

now look on this, no VMA weapons etc, just look on proc sets, viper with no crit is 8-10k hits

i.imgur.com/sq90wTz.jpg

with no crits total 5.3k dps from those proc sets will be maybe 2.5k, 1-1.5k per set, 1.5k additional dps from 5 pieces set

if this will be implemented then I dont have any reason to have any full proc set, in this monster set, for what is this damn 1-1.5k addition dps from those sets, this is nothing, much better then will be to equip 2 different monster set parts for bonuses and viper just throw into trash because this very low dps will be just garbage with use on pve

Nifty2g · December 2016

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

Because it's obviously not the correct way to go about it, why would you remove crit chance from PVE content in hopes of balancing PVP content WHEN CRIT CHANCE ISN'T THE ISSUE, IT'S THE SETS.
Please balance the sets not remove something else that will make a whole lot of things useless.

What are babbling about? They didn't remove crit chance, they just removed crit from set procs.

Do you understand what that means. It means the procs from: Chokethorn, Grothdarr, Iceheart, Ilambris, Infernal Guardian, Kra'gh, Maw of the Infernal, Nerien'eth, Nightflame, Selene, Sellistrix, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Shadowrend, Spawn of Mephala, Stormfist, Tremorscale, Valkyn Skoria, Velidreth.

No longer have a crit chance, which means they will no longer be affected by Critical Hit Damage modifiers which are; Minor Force, Major Force, Shadow, Piercing Spear and some others.

Some of those sets deserved a nerf, but to remove the crit chance from them means almost all of them are going to be very very weak. Not to mention these are just undaunted sets which have been widely used since they were introduced, why introduce something that is inevitably after this change just going to be quite weak? I just personally don't see why not go in and balance them all separate rather than removing the crit chance from them and then having so many things turned weak.

Sigtric · December 2016

ookami007 wrote: »

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Does anyone making these changes ACTUALLY play the game?

The guy who posted this can be seen in Cyrodiil and in the top 20 on a certain VMA leaderboard.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

Because it's obviously not the correct way to go about it, why would you remove crit chance from PVE content in hopes of balancing PVP content WHEN CRIT CHANCE ISN'T THE ISSUE, IT'S THE SETS.
Please balance the sets not remove something else that will make a whole lot of things useless.

What are babbling about? They didn't remove crit chance, they just removed crit from set procs.

Do you understand what that means. It means the procs from: Chokethorn, Grothdarr, Iceheart, Ilambris, Infernal Guardian, Kra'gh, Maw of the Infernal, Nerien'eth, Nightflame, Selene, Sellistrix, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Shadowrend, Spawn of Mephala, Stormfist, Tremorscale, Valkyn Skoria, Velidreth.

No longer have a crit chance, which means they will no longer be affected by Critical Hit Damage modifiers which are; Minor Force, Major Force, Shadow, Piercing Spear and some others.

Some of those sets deserved a nerf, but to remove the crit chance from them means almost all of them are going to be very very weak. Not to mention these are just undaunted sets which have been widely used since they were introduced, why introduce something that is inevitably after this change just going to be quite weak? I just personally don't see why not go in and balance them all separate rather than removing the crit chance from them and then having so many things turned weak.

They could of balanced them all individually, there is a lot more to the patch notes no ones knows yet.

templesus · December 2016

AlienSlof wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

^ This. ^

Yet again, PvPers cry a river and get stuff nerfed. Just turning off the crit in Cyrodiil would have sorted it. I was enjoying my Ilambris set.

Funny, PvPers cry a river to get things nerfed that are brought into the game by PvErs...

SanSan · December 2016

I get the crit pvp change but was it necessary for pve?

Nifty2g · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

Because it's obviously not the correct way to go about it, why would you remove crit chance from PVE content in hopes of balancing PVP content WHEN CRIT CHANCE ISN'T THE ISSUE, IT'S THE SETS.
Please balance the sets not remove something else that will make a whole lot of things useless.

What are babbling about? They didn't remove crit chance, they just removed crit from set procs.

Do you understand what that means. It means the procs from: Chokethorn, Grothdarr, Iceheart, Ilambris, Infernal Guardian, Kra'gh, Maw of the Infernal, Nerien'eth, Nightflame, Selene, Sellistrix, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Shadowrend, Spawn of Mephala, Stormfist, Tremorscale, Valkyn Skoria, Velidreth.

No longer have a crit chance, which means they will no longer be affected by Critical Hit Damage modifiers which are; Minor Force, Major Force, Shadow, Piercing Spear and some others.

Some of those sets deserved a nerf, but to remove the crit chance from them means almost all of them are going to be very very weak. Not to mention these are just undaunted sets which have been widely used since they were introduced, why introduce something that is inevitably after this change just going to be quite weak? I just personally don't see why not go in and balance them all separate rather than removing the crit chance from them and then having so many things turned weak.

They could of balanced them all individually, there is a lot more to the patch notes no ones knows yet.

But doesn't that defeat the purpose of why they got their crit removed in the first place?

Why can't they balance them out while still keeping the crit chance? CHD modifiers are widely used in PVE, this is more of a PVE nerf than PVP, and it's a very unnecessary one is why I'm against it. I think we should have just seen damage adjustments to these sets because the patch that just went by made some of the old undaunted sets usable again, and now they are going to be at the very bottom of the list.

And like @code65536 said, this doesn't exactly solve PVP issues, but it's going to change a lot of the foundations of PVE with undaunted sets, that were introduced in good way I think.
I also really dislike things that are unable to crit, certain abilities come to mind, and I really don't think ZOS should add more non crits into PVE. I think it's too much of a set foundation to start adding more things that can't crit into PVE.

SublimeSparo · December 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Are you seriously pretending they won't balance new content with this in mind? That's a joke, dude. Everyone .

So let me get this straight, they're going to nerf the crit chance and then balance it else where. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of nerfing it for PVP reasons?

What the hell are you talking about? You're the one commenting about the state of content they haven't even announced and I'm the one not making sense?

Because it's obviously not the correct way to go about it, why would you remove crit chance from PVE content in hopes of balancing PVP content WHEN CRIT CHANCE ISN'T THE ISSUE, IT'S THE SETS.
Please balance the sets not remove something else that will make a whole lot of things useless.

What are babbling about? They didn't remove crit chance, they just removed crit from set procs.

Do you understand what that means. It means the procs from: Chokethorn, Grothdarr, Iceheart, Ilambris, Infernal Guardian, Kra'gh, Maw of the Infernal, Nerien'eth, Nightflame, Selene, Sellistrix, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Shadowrend, Spawn of Mephala, Stormfist, Tremorscale, Valkyn Skoria, Velidreth.

No longer have a crit chance, which means they will no longer be affected by Critical Hit Damage modifiers which are; Minor Force, Major Force, Shadow, Piercing Spear and some others.

Some of those sets deserved a nerf, but to remove the crit chance from them means almost all of them are going to be very very weak. Not to mention these are just undaunted sets which have been widely used since they were introduced, why introduce something that is inevitably after this change just going to be quite weak? I just personally don't see why not go in and balance them all separate rather than removing the crit chance from them and then having so many things turned weak.

Lol the irony of iceheart now, a set with a crit bonus, that procs from crits, but then in turn cannot crit.
And Bogdan, lol, if it ever proc'd it critting would make it a worthwhile heal, with the proposed changes not only will it rarely proc but the heal will be terrible- the most worthless monster set is actually getting nerfed lmao