Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Biro123

Thread is funny..

People seem to think that pvp = impen = 0 crits... hmm.. Crits still happen in PVP - and yes, they hit harder than non-crits.. And yes, in PVP people can still put CP into crit dmg...

I play both a heavy armour stamsorc with full impen and a light-armour magsorc with 0 impen... Getting crit for an 13k Velidreth is a thing (after being halved by battle-spirit) - and a thing which shouldn't be happening.

This will make a big difference in PVP, I think. It will make it possible to spec just enough health to survive a proc-gank, I think without hurting too many other stats - yet keep the sets useful to the non-gank, non high-crit builds.

For PVE? well, I suspect they could easily have the change only apply with battle-spirit active - but the fact that the dev's haven't chosen this option could, just perhaps mean that they are maybe OVERPERFORMING IN PVE TOO??? I suspect they are - otherwise, how could I, a PVPer with only 300ish CP's go to a Vet dungeon for the very first time with his standard PVP build with 3 proc sets and SOLO it ?

How does nerfing something that over-performs in PVE break PVE? surely It brings back balance, build diversity and varied playstyles?? Isn't that fixing PVE?

Also those PVE'ers complaining about having to go out and farm new gear.. isn't that what PVE is? ie your chosen playstyle? what you'd be doing anyway?

To those calling for 'global cooldowns' Have a good think on how that would work... What should the cooldown be? What happens when 2 want to proc at the same time, how does it choose which one to proc? What happens if viper procs a half second before Selene and its in the cooldown - so Selene doesn't... could this feasibly mean that Selene ends up not proccing at all? Global cooldowns work with skills where you can control which one fires, but not with random procs. There would be so many complaints around sets not working, procs not firing, not getting that all-important heal-proc at 30% health, cos viper just procced before it etc.. It would be a mess.

Syiccal

would stop proc stacking

Cogo

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

So,

You give in to the final whinage about AoE caps from pvpers who only refuse to work with others...
Rip big pvp battles.

For some odd reason you nerf one of the few cool things to work with...poisons...
Rip players who think.

Nerfing "proc" sets? Never cared about since 50 players with procs sets dies to me just as good as 50 drunk midgets.

Nothing about new skills, areas, possible races and CONTENT?

"HI, we are making ESO even easier so console players will like it more!"

I am still here because of the community and friends I've shed blood with over the soon 3 years I've been a subscriber. Is my kind of playstyle, where challenge and player SKILL matters not really interesting for ZoS anymore?

I was hoping that Tamriel one was just a bad choice of direction. Is this really the "new" eso? Easy, easy, easy, fast, dumbed down?

Please, give me a reason to not stop my subscription.

If ZoS really wants to kick me out,

• add a global AH,
• scale everyone with everything so no one is different
• make it possible to buy level 90ies...sorry, level 50 chars in the crownstore
• And make everything account bound so there is no reason what so ever to play more then once

Please do this, so I can leave.

Says ZOS is trying to remove player skill from the game, yet is in favor of AOE caps. Lol.

I am not in favor of AoE caps. Or against it. Its a non issue.

I just dont understand why SOME players wants the game to change to suit them, instead of getting better themselves.

Faulgor

Interesting sneak peek, thanks!

But I was under the impression that the trouble with proc sets is that you can use multiple at the same time. That's where most of the burst is coming from. So I'd have thought to either

- Restrict proc effects to monster sets (change Viper/Red Mountain/Widowmaker/etc effects), so you can only use one no matter what.
- Add a global proc effect cooldown so you can't trigger more than one, like enchantments.

That would also make it easier to balance individual sets.

Taonnor

Some small comments from my site.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

Interesting change. We must see it in live.

"ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

This is my favorite change. But i'm still the opinion that you will have the best combat experience without any aoe caps, like i'm written in my thread Myth AoE Cap.

And another good change could be the change of healing springs to a group only ability.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Good fix.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Another good fix.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

I hope you got it!

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Ok? Interesting. Will the bags have all types of items? Jewelery, weapons and armor?

gard

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

@ZOS_RichLambert
Your data is suspect. There are Red Mountain crits in your "no crit" screenshot.

Milvan

Not really sure what to think of the changes...let's wait and see.

Riga_Mortis

The thing Im most dissappointed with, is that ZOS couldnt solve the procset problem in pvp without affecting the pve.

Would of loved to see ZOS provide a way of seperating pvp changes/nerfs from pve and vice versa, and judging from whats coming this seperation will never happen anytime soon, if at all.

brandonv516

Goodbye thunderbug + storm knight combo for my sorc tank. This was so much fun with high crit and critical surge for soloing pve content. Back to the drawing board.

zerosingularity

As many have stated, the only issue I see is with the change to proc sets in PvE. Basically every DPS proc set will be reduced to around half effectiveness. The internal test even shows as such. (We don't count 1pc bonuses, because we can use say 1pc kra'gh 1 pc kena or w/e you like). As a result, many of these damage sets will fall out of favor. And as shown, it affects EVERY proc set, reducing the usefulness of 5pc proc sets, further shoehorning us to other sets that do not rely on them, like TBS and VO and the like.

Was any consideration given instead to forcing a global proc set cooldown of ~2 seconds or something, or preventing the use of more than 1 proc set at a time? This would not really hinder PvE as much, and make a difference in PvP. I just see such a huge drop in damage from proc sets (monster sets in particular), and without any additional patch notes to see the full picture, based on the current knowledge, all will not be well.

The nerf in PvP is a good thing though (I use them, and I wanted them nerfed hard in PvP). Though since most everyone runs impen, the effect of this nerf will be lower than I would like. (People will still run mostly impen items anyway, so no one really stacks crit in pvp.)

Also as a consideration, with this PvE nerf, it makes raid groups that are still learning have an even harder time. The DPS in these training groups will be weaker, and as many of us know, when the dps is too low, it makes the difference between a successful run and hell on tamrial.

I hope that some modifications will be made to this particular change, or that the rest of the patch notes show changes that compensate in other ways.

Basically in a nutshell, too big a nerf in pve, not sufficient of one in pvp.

Sigtric

Akimbro wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Oh no my proc set training wheels have to come off next patch...I guess skill will count for something

Maybe PVP-wise...but in PVE there's no such training wheels. You learn the mechanics or you die. Proc sets won't carry you through HM trials...

That's not what all the crying about this in pve would lead one to believe.

hehe

DoccEff

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

whats the point of pledges now that monster sets are rip?

THIS.
There are already monster sets that do poor damage and that no one is using anymore, like Mephala or Nenrien'eth. Instead of bringing these back Zos just takes away any reason to use monster sets for Pve-Dps.

Minalan

@ZOS_BrianWheeler you forgot a few fixes:

* Melee proc sets will no longer activate on poison ticks. So you won't get a triple melee set proc on a bow heavy attack.

* Proc sets will no longer double proc because you switched weapons temporarily and lost the five piece set bonus.

* Proc sets will no longer target players in stealth (Infernal guardian).

* tremorscale should not activate on players. Players cannot be taunted.

While you're fixing bugs, add a small ICD of four seconds on damage proc sets to prevent stacking 10K+ proc damage on a single light attack.

Doctordarkspawn

I hope ZOS is actually seeing the common complaint in this thread. Both from us -and- PVPers.

The PVPers who arrent malicious are going 'this does not solve the problem'.

The PVEers are going "Why have we been nerfed for a measure that does not solve the problem?"

Lisen, ZOS. It's right there. People have suggested measures. Stop it. Stop this course no one but the malicious like, and does not work.

Tyrion87

Omg suddenly and unexpectedly so many folks attacking proc sets as being OP in PvE. Where have you been before seeing Rich Lambert's thread? Don't get it why some people defend ZOS's decisions mindlessly, even the ones that are objectively unnecessary and simply wrong.

Kobiwan_shinobi

Lol ZOS simply can not win.

90% of PvE player on forums post IC patch cried that the game was too easy. That they can burn all content without breaking a sweat. That they needed a 'difficulty' setting.

Now let's look at the forum today...

'Not being able to crit a proc is unacceptable. This will surely destroy PvE bla.. bla ......bla'.

As a PvE & PvP player, I think this change is great; Not amazing, but it will do for now. It will lower burst potential in PvP and lower DPS on PvE. Both of which needed to happen. This game has slowly moved away from 'skill' and gone down the route of ease. I am hoping this next update will bring skill back into the equation.

My personal preference would be to completely remove 5pc proc sets from PvP & PvE. I think monster sets are okay, but damage should be decreased by 50% in PvP with no crit.

One problem with proc sets is that people are using them as part of their rotation; Building a character around a proc set(s), rather than adding it to your char to give you a slight boost in potential. Some proc sets can hit harder than ultimates in this game and is one of the main reasons 'balance' is difficult.

If you feel like this change is going to seriously affect you in PvE then maybe you need to git good with your rotations. Idk, maybe start playing content without any proc sets to improve your skill level.

Egonieser

@ZOS_RichLambert Thank you! Long overdue, but at least something!

Brrrofski

The proc sets... You totally missed the point. The set not being able to crit doesn't really change it. Most people have 5-7 impen anyway. The fact you can stack procs is the issue. Viper and tremorscale, viper and velidreth being the biggest culprits.

Again, we ask for change and you get it so so wrong.

Doctordarkspawn

Kobiwan_shinobi wrote: »

Lol ZOS simply can not win.

90% of PvE player on forums post IC patch cried that the game was too easy. That they can burn all content without breaking a sweat. That they needed a 'difficulty' setting.

Now let's look at the forum today...

'Not being able to crit a proc is unacceptable. This will surely destroy PvE bla.. bla ......bla'.

As a PvE & PvP player, I think this change is great; Not amazing, but it will do for now. It will lower burst potential in PvP and lower DPS on PvE. Both of which needed to happen. This game has slowly moved away from 'skill' and gone down the route of ease. I am hoping this next update will bring skill back into the equation.

My personal preference would be to completely remove 5pc proc sets from PvP & PvE. I think monster sets are okay, but damage should be decreased by 50% in PvP with no crit.

One problem with proc sets is that people are using them as part of their rotation; Building a character around a proc set(s), rather than adding it to your char to give you a slight boost in potential. Some proc sets can hit harder than ultimates in this game and is one of the main reasons 'balance' is difficult.

If you feel like this change is going to seriously affect you in PvE then maybe you need to git good with your rotations. Idk, maybe start playing content without any proc sets to improve your skill level.

Here's the thing.

It wasn't OP in PVE. It didn't need nerfed.

And telling people to git gud is an excuse for jumping on a bandwagon. The game was designed around the proc sets being used as DPS. ZOS keeps puting these building blocks there for us to use, then suddenly making them disappear.

Git gud at arguement and understanding of basic design.

SunfireKnight86

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

James-Wayne

I'd say the reason they are making changes to PvE with proc sets is because you can complete Vet Maelstrom Arena in under 30 minutes now and vTrials HM is much much easier to burn bosses down.

Challenge accepted!

SunfireKnight86

Cogo wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

So,

You give in to the final whinage about AoE caps from pvpers who only refuse to work with others...
Rip big pvp battles.

For some odd reason you nerf one of the few cool things to work with...poisons...
Rip players who think.

Nerfing "proc" sets? Never cared about since 50 players with procs sets dies to me just as good as 50 drunk midgets.

Nothing about new skills, areas, possible races and CONTENT?

"HI, we are making ESO even easier so console players will like it more!"

I am still here because of the community and friends I've shed blood with over the soon 3 years I've been a subscriber. Is my kind of playstyle, where challenge and player SKILL matters not really interesting for ZoS anymore?

I was hoping that Tamriel one was just a bad choice of direction. Is this really the "new" eso? Easy, easy, easy, fast, dumbed down?

Please, give me a reason to not stop my subscription.

If ZoS really wants to kick me out,

• add a global AH,
• scale everyone with everything so no one is different
• make it possible to buy level 90ies...sorry, level 50 chars in the crownstore
• And make everything account bound so there is no reason what so ever to play more then once

Please do this, so I can leave.

Says ZOS is trying to remove player skill from the game, yet is in favor of AOE caps. Lol.

I am not in favor of AoE caps. Or against it. Its a non issue.

I just dont understand why SOME players wants the game to change to suit them, instead of getting better themselves.

The same logic people used at launch when vampires were one shotting raid groups. You're exploiting bad mechanics and passing it off as if you have "MAD SKILLZ".

If you can't win a PvP fight without broken ass proc sets one shotting half the people and mobs in the game, maybe you're the one who should "get gud".

Nifty2g

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"The game is too easy! We need harder content! WHAT? YOU NERFED CRIT?"

All this crying as if the world is ending. People downed trials before we had proc sets, they'll continue downing trials. Honestly, this crowd will *** about anything.

People downed trials because we were 2 veteran ranks ahead playing against yearly outdated content that wasn't upscaled with CP increases.

Can't really use this argument anymore since the trials being updated and damage increases. Not to mention I assume a new trial is coming out very soon.

The thing people are annoyed about is that this change came out of no where for no real reason, it doesn't solve anything only makes an issue for PVE and more of an issue for the weaker undaunted sets.
Removing crit is just an outright quick fix without the needed fixing.

Sigtric

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Kobiwan_shinobi wrote: »

Lol ZOS simply can not win.

90% of PvE player on forums post IC patch cried that the game was too easy. That they can burn all content without breaking a sweat. That they needed a 'difficulty' setting.

Now let's look at the forum today...

'Not being able to crit a proc is unacceptable. This will surely destroy PvE bla.. bla ......bla'.

As a PvE & PvP player, I think this change is great; Not amazing, but it will do for now. It will lower burst potential in PvP and lower DPS on PvE. Both of which needed to happen. This game has slowly moved away from 'skill' and gone down the route of ease. I am hoping this next update will bring skill back into the equation.

My personal preference would be to completely remove 5pc proc sets from PvP & PvE. I think monster sets are okay, but damage should be decreased by 50% in PvP with no crit.

One problem with proc sets is that people are using them as part of their rotation; Building a character around a proc set(s), rather than adding it to your char to give you a slight boost in potential. Some proc sets can hit harder than ultimates in this game and is one of the main reasons 'balance' is difficult.

If you feel like this change is going to seriously affect you in PvE then maybe you need to git good with your rotations. Idk, maybe start playing content without any proc sets to improve your skill level.

Here's the thing.

It wasn't OP in PVE. It didn't need nerfed.

And telling people to git gud is an excuse for jumping on a bandwagon. The game was designed around the proc sets being used as DPS. ZOS keeps puting these building blocks there for us to use, then suddenly making them disappear.

Git gud at arguement and understanding of basic design.

As far as we know right now proc sets are still available and wont be disappearing (that's a shame)

You're loosing what should be a minimal amount of DPS off the top of procs, which probably never should have critted in the first place.

So yeah, if your character is ruined because suddenly viper's doesn't crit, get good.

Sugaroverdose

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

If you can't win a PvP fight without broken as proc sets, maybe you're the one who should "get gud".

do not judge for yourself

Nifty2g

James-Wayne wrote: »

I'd say the reason they are making changes to PvE with proc sets is because you can complete Vet Maelstrom Arena in under 30 minutes now and vTrials HM is much much easier to burn bosses down.

Challenge accepted!

I mean not really, you can still burn down bosses pretty easily you just use molag kena for your melee players.
I just think this is a band-aid fix and something that wont actually fix the actual problem in pvp.

sneakymitchell

So what about double procing poison? Does that mean I can only have one poison sloted and if I have two they both share the cooldown?

silky_soft

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

You're minor force has a 10% downtime

texassob

Jaronking wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

It's not the actual % DPS decrease for PVE - it's the fact that PVE gets nerfed because of PVP whining and crap that annoys me.

I know this may sound crazy, but maybe proc sets are over performing in both PVE and PVP.

Maybe the blame should shift from only pvpers to players pulling 60k+ dps in pve land, burning through most mechanics. There's plenty of blame to go around. I believe @leepalmer95 said it already. It'll be a massive 3% dps decrease if you're running 5-3-2 with a monster set.

Do I think it's going to fix proc sets in pvp? No. The stacking of proc sets will still be an issue.

Do I think it's a step in the right direction? Yes. Toning down the damage done by proc sets is a response to the complaints that have all of us have seen over the past few months. It may not be the change that most of us wanted, but it is a change, nonetheless.

I'm interested to see the rest of the patch notesn specifically interested the possible changes to heavy armor and the destro ulti.

CC: @Jaronking @texassob @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: grammar and autocorrect

Pug lives matter so we won't really fix proc sets #Lambet.

@Ron_Burgundy_79

hahahaha gotta keep the pugs going for standard

Stopnaggin

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Even if i don't agree with nerfing the sets on PvE, i don't understand why people cry so much. Is not like you will have problems completing some PvE content lol, DPS numbers are higher and higher in every patch, if they go down a little bit, no one will die. Trials will still be completed, and vMA will still l be a walk in the part for any exprienced player.

That being said, if you can't pull good DPS numbers without a proc set, maybe you need to work on your rotations (a.k.a git gud).

I agree. What's the big deal? You will still crit with melee and your skills, just not the proc set......

The problem is PVE is taking a hit for PVP's quality of life when the changes wont even -do- anything.

They are ineffective, persona non vitae, they dont -work-. The sheer volume of procs will still kill you, and it wont do anything.

What is the hit to PvE? What is the major collpase of PvE quality of life? Only the monster set procs will no longer crit... That means they will still do big time damage. Just no chance for it to do MEGA SUPER ULTRA damage.

PvP has to breathe too.

Is just monster sets? Pretty sure they said all proc sets, like viper, rm etc.