Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

ManwithBeard9

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

and yet they decide to let you now just buy Overland sets with AP without properly addressing the issue

as soon as everyone start buying the sets they can use for the next exploit then we will hear the "nerf it" cry go out

when will ZOS learn to make completely separate sets that only work in either PvE or PvP...my guess would be never

so instead lets all just go and hide in our new expensive houses and play SIMS until they can come out with some real new content

Except the sets are green or blue at the highest which means they arent worth it.

Maybe for Jewerly. Upgrading to purple or gold isn't hard.

Correct, but if you plan on purple of gold jewelry, start grinding or find a guild stall.

olsborg

That proccset nerf is hardly a nerf! Holy *** the level of dissapointment in me atm. Im opting out.

HeroOfNone

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I think what this is doing is the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish. if your intent is to make it "viable" then the critical values that make it valuable in PVE are all but gone. And, despite the critical burst being removed, it will still be used in PVP since any reduction that might have applied through critical, since Impenetrable will no longer affect it and potato builds will continue to use them while they spam other high damage abilities. Proc sets were not simply an issue because they did "just enough" to kill players, but they killed WAY over the limit. This also does not address several boost sets that are being used with proc sets to form much more powerful combos than I feel were intended.

I've covered more in several other posts, so I invite anyone that haven't read these to please take a look.
ACD: Top 10 PVP issues of 2016
ACD: Fixing Proc Sets, ZOS's Roadmap to Success or Ruin
ACD: The Battle for PVP Improvements

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

I feel the logic on who gets the first, second, 3rd, and 4th abilities need to be explained more. There have been multiple issues documented on the forums in the past about purge going to the same players and not those that need it, and heals have similar issues. This RNG does not lead to skilled game play.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Good to see on this, but the RNG factor on poison still needs to be made something more skillfully balanced.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

so hide for 6 seconds before you can call a mount or for increased regens? might be giving an advantage to 1vXers

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

I'll keep in mind to highlight locations

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

I think the zone bags are ok, but I hope this will have a chance for purple or gold jewelry. will this also mean certain zone's sets will be made more viable? will this also include Trainee sets without the training trait? that could be a potential game breaker.

arasysb14_ESO

nerfing things to fix things never worked, just like AOE caps didn't.

I have been soloing dungeons to farm new sets, and soloing dungeons is one of the only entertaining and challenging aspects of this game for someone who doesn't have the flexibility to attend scheduled guild raids. Whatever you are going to change (break) please make sure solo players, who can handle dungeons, are not pushed away for the sake of pvp players, who already lost hope in terms of balancing.

SublimeSparo

ku5h wrote: »

When you think about it. Any 1 single proc set is not OP, but multiple proc sets are. They go and nerf all proc sets across the board making them less viable. Now running 1 proc set wont be viable any more, but stacking multiple procs will be only way to go about it. So in retrospect, what they wanted to prevent they just made only way to go, stack multiple proc sets or dont use them at all. Just give us GCD on procs................................................................pleeeeeeeease.

Exactly. It's the shield stacking nerf 2.0.
Ie totally missed the point and actually encourages what it's trying to prevent while punishing those not abusing stacking

Nifty2g

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

PVE is in a great place right now, crit matters a lot, why remove one of the core things that make up PVE gameplay? Instead of just making use of that battle spirit passive to balance things within Cyrodill. This just further proves you can't balance a game for PVE and PVP espeically this far into the game and the changes being added.

On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from

That's per person, imagine a 7% nerf for all 8 DPS in your raid -- that is quite large.

All in all I think this change is barely going to change anything in Cyrodill like it's meant to but its going to be pretty awful in PVE, and I think you guys should look for different ways to balance it. And keep Cyrodill balance out of PVE. We should have moved away from this in 2015.

(Why not make it so they can't crit on players only???)

Toc de Malsvi

SublimeSparo wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

When you think about it. Any 1 single proc set is not OP, but multiple proc sets are. They go and nerf all proc sets across the board making them less viable. Now running 1 proc set wont be viable any more, but stacking multiple procs will be only way to go about it. So in retrospect, what they wanted to prevent they just made only way to go, stack multiple proc sets or dont use them at all. Just give us GCD on procs................................................................pleeeeeeeease.

Exactly. It's the shield stacking nerf 2.0.
Ie totally missed the point and actually encourages what it's trying to prevent while punishing those not abusing stacking

Already addressed this earlier and no, it is not better for stacking it is worse for those who are stacking and is easily seen through simple mathematics.

GawdSB

Lol @ making getting these sets time consuming with rng, then nerfing them after all that time was put into finally getting the trait you've been trying to get forever.

Good thing I can and have ran PVE content with or without the monster sets... But this is just ridiculous.
My magicka dk is very sad.

ChandraNalaar

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

Have you tested these changes on magicka toons yet? @ZOS_RichLambert From the tooltips it seems like magicka toons using Grothdarr or Ilambris are going to have a harder time sustaining their damage in trials. How do you think this will affect raid groups in vMOL, and are you trying to remove burn strats?

leepalmer95

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

PVE is in a great place right now, crit matters a lot, why remove one of the core things that make up PVE gameplay? Instead of just making use of that battle spirit passive to balance things within Cyrodill. This just further proves you can't balance a game for PVE and PVP espeically this far into the game and the changes being added.

On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from

That's per person, imagine a 7% nerf for all 8 DPS in your raid -- that is quite large.

All in all I think this change is barely going to change anything in Cyrodill like it's meant to but its going to be pretty awful in PVE, and I think you guys should look for different ways to balance it. And keep Cyrodill balance out of PVE. We should have moved away from this in 2015.

(Why not make it so they can't crit on players only???)

It's 7-8% overall dps loss using 3 sets. On an actual end game trial build with 1 proc set, it'll be like 3% dmg loss overall, plus the cp cap may increase so the actual dps loss shouldn't be noticeable.

Toc de Malsvi

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

PVE is in a great place right now, crit matters a lot, why remove one of the core things that make up PVE gameplay? Instead of just making use of that battle spirit passive to balance things within Cyrodill. This just further proves you can't balance a game for PVE and PVP espeically this far into the game and the changes being added.

On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from

That's per person, imagine a 7% nerf for all 8 DPS in your raid -- that is quite large.

All in all I think this change is barely going to change anything in Cyrodill like it's meant to but its going to be pretty awful in PVE, and I think you guys should look for different ways to balance it. And keep Cyrodill balance out of PVE. We should have moved away from this in 2015.

(Why not make it so they can't crit on players only???)

Your whole raid runs 3 proc set combo's?

It's more like 2-3% per proc set run, making running only one proc set much more desirable which is exactly where most everyone is at already.

Toc de Malsvi

ChandraNalaar wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

Have you tested these changes on magicka toons yet? @ZOS_RichLambert From the tooltips it seems like magicka toons using Grothdarr or Ilambris are going to have a harder time sustaining their damage in trials. How do you think this will affect raid groups in vMOL, and are you trying to remove burn strats?

If the crit damage from those sets was so important perhaps Grothdarr and Ilambris were over performing?

OrphanHelgen

Is this affecting the procs of enchants as well, as maelstrom bow the bonus dmg tics or just a simple poison dmg enchant?

Akimbro

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

Seems to be the general consensus from end-game players. Most PVPers already wear full impen gear so the difference between crit vs. non-crit will be minimal. It's the stacking of those multiple proc sets that's the issue. PVEers are taking the shaft once again. ZOS, please get to the source of the issue and stop with the lazy fixes. If you really want to fix proc sets in PVP, fix how people can wear up to 3 proc sets that can all proc at the same time. One proc at a time. Reduced effectiveness from multiple proc sets. Etc...

corrosivechains

these are good changes honestly. If you're relying on procs to sustain yourself, then you need to re-evaluate your gameplay. Procs remove player skill and give poor players an excuse to let the game play itself for them. Procsets are a crutch for an unbroken leg.

Ron_Burgundy_79

DPShiro wrote: »

It's not the actual % DPS decrease for PVE - it's the fact that PVE gets nerfed because of PVP whining and crap that annoys me.

I know this may sound crazy, but maybe proc sets are over performing in both PVE and PVP.

Maybe the blame should shift from only pvpers to players pulling 60k+ dps in pve land, burning through most mechanics. There's plenty of blame to go around. I believe @leepalmer95 said it already. It'll be a massive 3% dps decrease if you're running 5-3-2 with a monster set.

Do I think it's going to fix proc sets in pvp? No. The stacking of proc sets will still be an issue.

Do I think it's a step in the right direction? Yes. Toning down the damage done by proc sets is a response to the complaints that have all of us have seen over the past few months. It may not be the change that most of us wanted, but it is a change, nonetheless.

I'm interested to see the rest of the patch notesn specifically interested the possible changes to heavy armor and the destro ulti.

CC: @Jaronking @texassob @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: grammar and autocorrect

SublimeSparo

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

When you think about it. Any 1 single proc set is not OP, but multiple proc sets are. They go and nerf all proc sets across the board making them less viable. Now running 1 proc set wont be viable any more, but stacking multiple procs will be only way to go about it. So in retrospect, what they wanted to prevent they just made only way to go, stack multiple proc sets or dont use them at all. Just give us GCD on procs................................................................pleeeeeeeease.

Exactly. It's the shield stacking nerf 2.0.
Ie totally missed the point and actually encourages what it's trying to prevent while punishing those not abusing stacking

Already addressed this earlier and no, it is not better for stacking it is worse for those who are stacking and is easily seen through simple mathematics.

Heavy armour double proc build have what 30% crit, so the majority of the procs don't even crit so the change hardly affects them

SodanTok

Akimbro wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

Seems to be the general consensus from end-game players. Most PVPers already wear full impen gear so the difference between crit vs. non-crit will be minimal. It's the stacking of those multiple proc sets that's the issue. PVEers are taking the shaft once again. ZOS, please get to the source of the issue and stop with the lazy fixes. If you really want to fix proc sets in PVP, fix how people can wear up to 3 proc sets that can all proc at the same time. One proc at a time. Reduced effectiveness from multiple proc sets. Etc...

I wouldnt call it exactly minimal. Most people run around with 30-45% crit resist, most crits from proc stackers (dual wielding nightblade) are 70%+

CMz

ZOS - Just Stop! Stop trying to fix PvP by ruining the PvE experience yet again. If you want to fix PvP start with taking the ongoing abuse of cheat engine seriously and make a ban a real ban. Most players across my guilds have moved from PvP to trials and pledges because of the sustained abuse that has robbed PvP of any joy whatsoever.

If you really care, start by addressing the real problems. Your current proposal is not a solution and simply ruins the one area of play that we have all flocked to.

Sugaroverdose

Akimbro wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

Seems to be the general consensus from end-game players. Most PVPers already wear full impen gear so the difference between crit vs. non-crit will be minimal. It's the stacking of those multiple proc sets that's the issue. PVEers are taking the shaft once again. ZOS, please get to the source of the issue and stop with the lazy fixes. If you really want to fix proc sets in PVP, fix how people can wear up to 3 proc sets that can all proc at the same time. One proc at a time. Reduced effectiveness from multiple proc sets. Etc...

There is mundus, cp star and trap beast each increases crit multiplier, crit resist capped at 3200 which completely removes default 150% multiplier from crit, but with 12+12+24% you have almost the same as default multiplier(and cause you deal 95% of damage with sets, you don't even need to care about sustain or raw damage, so you can stack crit rate and crit damage multipliers without any drawbacks), and there's almost 0 builds who have more than 2200 resists, so crits on proc sets does makes huge difference in PvP believe you or not.

DHale

I am not sure why pve needed changes. Did the union representing dungeon monsters make a complaint. So they can one shot us with lazy mechanic but we can't one shot them. Great development work guys... really.

Nifty2g

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

PVE is in a great place right now, crit matters a lot, why remove one of the core things that make up PVE gameplay? Instead of just making use of that battle spirit passive to balance things within Cyrodill. This just further proves you can't balance a game for PVE and PVP espeically this far into the game and the changes being added.

On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from

That's per person, imagine a 7% nerf for all 8 DPS in your raid -- that is quite large.

All in all I think this change is barely going to change anything in Cyrodill like it's meant to but its going to be pretty awful in PVE, and I think you guys should look for different ways to balance it. And keep Cyrodill balance out of PVE. We should have moved away from this in 2015.

(Why not make it so they can't crit on players only???)

It's 7-8% overall dps loss using 3 sets. On an actual end game trial build with 1 proc set, it'll be like 3% dmg loss overall, plus the cp cap may increase so the actual dps loss shouldn't be noticeable.

Where are you getting the numbers from, Grothdarr is doing upwards of 10% of your DPS, while the average PVE player runs around with 65-75% crit chance (more with raid buffs)

Not to mention minor force AND major force is not going to work on these sets anymore this is upwards of a 6% damage nerf per player from using these sets.

I think a lot of people are missing the point on how awful a decision this is when its completely changing PVE more than PVP.

WhiteMage

Many of these changes tickle my little PvPer heart, but that proc set change... we need to talk.

First off, I didn't know they could even crit! I assumed they didn't, so I don't know how much this will actually affect things. This is a step in the right direction, to be sure, but it doesn't do anything against stacking multiple proc sets and releasing them all at once, to where they are proccing off each other. I am going to assume this is not the final fix you ever plan on considering (it hasn't even been tested yet, so being unchanging in this would be irresponsible) so I'd like you to consider having a global cooldown on proc sets, where one proc set cooldown triggers the same cooldown on all other proc sets, and to consider adjusting the proc condition from damage to skill/standard attack usage on relevant sets. This would limit the number of cases where a proc procs another proc which we all hate so much.

brandonv516

Yes so now I can stealth away and after 6 seconds I'm out of combat again. This was a huge annoyance on my magicka nb when I was stuck in combat for what felt like forever.

ChandraNalaar

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.


@ZOS_RichLambert Are the aoe caps being removed in pve as well?

bowmanz607

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

thank you!!!!!

Ron_Burgundy_79

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

You have successfully cancelled your membership.

This is the best text i have seen on my screen so far today.

Zos, you are so out of touch with the players, its not even funny anymore.


If you cant keep pve and pvp separate, then i will keep you away from my money.

Oh know i'm going to lose rough;y 3% dps because my proc sets can't crit.

However will i handle such huge set back in pve now? What am i going to do when i'm busy ignoring boss mechanics in my 30s boss burst? The boss will live 2s longer, this could be wipe worthy.


Like come on people really?

if your group is get wiped in two seconds, you need to change it, or make descent build without using broken mechanics

leepalmer95

Nifty2g wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I feel this is another "one step forward, two steps back" type of deal. While I agree it is good for PVP I feel as if this is impacting PVE in ways it shouldn't. And honestly, I don't think removing the crit component is going to fix the issue for PVP, but it sure is going to fix and break a lot of the PVE gameplay.

PVE is in a great place right now, crit matters a lot, why remove one of the core things that make up PVE gameplay? Instead of just making use of that battle spirit passive to balance things within Cyrodill. This just further proves you can't balance a game for PVE and PVP espeically this far into the game and the changes being added.

On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from

That's per person, imagine a 7% nerf for all 8 DPS in your raid -- that is quite large.

All in all I think this change is barely going to change anything in Cyrodill like it's meant to but its going to be pretty awful in PVE, and I think you guys should look for different ways to balance it. And keep Cyrodill balance out of PVE. We should have moved away from this in 2015.

(Why not make it so they can't crit on players only???)

It's 7-8% overall dps loss using 3 sets. On an actual end game trial build with 1 proc set, it'll be like 3% dmg loss overall, plus the cp cap may increase so the actual dps loss shouldn't be noticeable.

Where are you getting the numbers from, Grothdarr is doing upwards of 10% of your DPS, while the average PVE player runs around with 65-75% crit chance (more with raid buffs)

Not to mention minor force AND major force is not going to work on these sets anymore this is upwards of a 6% damage nerf per player from using these sets.

I think a lot of people are missing the point on how awful a decision this is when its completely changing PVE more than PVP.

I still don't think the nerf will be enough for pvp, but sets like grothdarr and ilambris are too strong at the moment for pve.

Your a top pve'er yourself so you noticed why the dps meta shifted to magicka was mainly because of sets like these. The dmg they bring is insane and it's aoe damage.

Besides you were all managing to do vet hard mode trials before proc sets became so strong pve wise, you should be fine. we don't even know what other changes zos made yet either.

Plus the cp cap may increase which will lower the dps effect on it's own.

nraner81

hello another game!
goodbye VMA grind and grind for nerf!!!

Akimbro

@sodantokb16_ESO @Sugaroverdose

Okay but what was the goal? Burst potential. Don't lose sight of this.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential.

Removing crit does not change the burst potential when people can wear up to 3 proc sets that do instant damage...

That's why I'm saying the difference between crit vs. non-crit on a full impen target doesn't really change the burst potential. You're still hitting your target for loads of instant damage. That's the issue. Not the crit.