Scrub mentality in group dungeons

Solus

Dubhliam wrote: »

This has been an issue for a really long time.
There have been numerous threads and complaints how when someone finally gets grouped for a dungeon by the grouping tool, a high CP character will simply leave or kick a low level from group.

While I don't support such behavior, I guess I am left with no other choice than... simply stop using the grouping tool altogether.

Yesterday, I grouped for a random normal. I don't usually do normal dungeons, but I heard a rumor that helms drop from random normal dungeons so I applied to test it with my max CP DK tank.
As soon as I entered, I knew I was going to have a hard time because:

1. there were multiple low level players
2. one was dcing non stop, so the "vote to kick" was triggered
3. when I got into the dungeon, I noticed the group was already half way through the dungeon

But hey, I didn't want to be one of those that simply leave, so I stuck around. I mean, it's a normal dungeon. Only two more bosses to go, how long could that last?
Well, after the "vote to kick" got through, we were waiting for the 4th player. At this time the group was composed of two low leves (around lvl 20) and me. Many high CP players got allocated, but they instantly left the group. Until a CP66 came along as healer and we went to beat the boss.
The boss in question was Keeper Imiril from BC2.
As soon as we started I noticed something was terribly wrong. None of the players actually cast any skills besides an occasional BoL from the CP66 healer. Seriously, they all only used heavy and light attacks.
After a painful 5 minutes of this boss fight, instead of leaving the group like any other player would, I did the unthinkable -
I tried to help them and give them advice
The communication was almost non existent from their part. I believe their english (lol why is your forum saying this word is misspelled) was not really good, maybe even up to the point they didn't understand me.
It took me almost 4 minutes to get them to write which weapons and skills they use. At which point the CP66 started being rude and trying to hurry up the dungeon.
For your information, the composition of the group was:

• max CP DK tank - double 1H&S
• CP 66 templar healer - resto and DW
• level 19 sorcerer DD - resto and destro (although I have seen him use the destro only after my long speech)
• level 23 NB DD - 2h and bow (although I have only seen him use the bow)

I did notice more skill usage on the next boss, but the fight was still mostly resto heavy attacks (from both sorc and temp) and bow light attacks from the low level with an occasional Poison Arrow.

After we finally beat the last boss (it took us almost 5 minutes to kill a 1,6kk boss where I as tank was doing 2k DPS meaning they collectively had around 4k DPS WITH MY HORNS AND IGNEOUS WEAPONS), the CP66 started to harass me.
Honestly, I can count one one hand how many people I have on my Block list (after two years of playing) but this guy got on my list promptly. My Friend list on the other hand is huge.

So, to conclude... the next time you see someone leave your group... it's because of people like this guy and the *** we have to eat in such groups.
Get your *** together, learn the game!
You can't go into group dungeons left clicking and then shitting all over the one person trying to help you.

Solution 1:

People 50 and under cannot use the group dungeon utility, this gives them something to work toward and also gives them a decent amount of time to figure the game out in normal gameplay.

Solution 2:

Group like levels together. Have a 50 and under queue and a CP (1-100/101-200/201-300/301-400/401-500/501-max) queue. This way content can be scaled to the average group level (say everyone is 45, it is scaled to the average level of 45; or everyone is CP 561, content is scaled to 561)

Solution 3:

Have a grading system that counts how often someone leaves, or how many dungeons are completed (vet and normal). This way it groups people with higher in game skill sets together, rather than putting people who are doing their first dungeon with someone who is on their 10th run today. Also implement either solution 1 or 2 into this to eliminate the level gap.

just some ideas.

I share your frustrations OP, Im a CP272, and just did CoS vet in an hour with people maxed out. So its not all about being maxed out, however being grouped with people who just unlocked their second bar can be a drag.

SolarCat02

But what if some of us like helping people learn to run dungeons?

Hot_spur

I am on a Mac. North American server.

Solus

SolarCat02 wrote: »

But what if some of us like helping people learn to run dungeons?

Well i think a majority of the people wouldnt like this, you still could if you oversaw a zone chat and wanted to help them with it by telling them what to do?

N0TPLAYER2

I just want to say, giving helpful advice is fine. Immediately asking what skills and weapons someone uses puts them on the defensive. I am healer, I can easily heal all content, possibly aside from a few vet trials, and when someone asks me before the dungeon even starts what I'm using I get offended as it's a way to judge if I am good enough. I'm more than good enough. I don't need someone interrogating me.

Yes I realize this isn't exactly that happened but still, immediately trying to say, no you're doing it wrong, play the game how I want you to, will *** most people off. Just a simple fact

Drdeath20

The real question is, how come a player can get through the entire story line and not know a single thing about their class or the fight mechanics?

Don't stand in the red or flames
There's more than just wrecking blow/snipe
Armor sets matter
Avoid getting 1 shotted

Buffler

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

I just want to say, giving helpful advice is fine. Immediately asking what skills and weapons someone uses puts them on the defensive. I am healer, I can easily heal all content, possibly aside from a few vet trials, and when someone asks me before the dungeon even starts what I'm using I get offended as it's a way to judge if I am good enough. I'm more than good enough. I don't need someone interrogating me.

Yes I realize this isn't exactly that happened but still, immediately trying to say, no you're doing it wrong, play the game how I want you to, will *** most people off. Just a simple fact

I ask what healers are using everytime I pug. Not interrogating just need to know so I can adjust my gear accordingly. If healer runs repentance or shards I go full dps.....if not i swap for a bit of sustain

SolarCat02

Solus wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

But what if some of us like helping people learn to run dungeons?

Well i think a majority of the people wouldnt like this, you still could if you oversaw a zone chat and wanted to help them with it by telling them what to do?

Or you could use zone chat to find a group of people who you feel are in your level range, and leave the group finder as is.

I am just saying, this goes both ways.

Personally, when I PUG it's to see who I find. I have met some fun people, and helped some friendly newbies, and for all the nightmares I have had 10x more good runs. I will also say that while sometimes low level players cause stress in the group, the majority of times I have had an issue in a dungeon was due to high-CP players who felt every issue was someone else's fault. By comparison, the still-learning newbies are much more fun.

If I want to run with people of my skill level, I use guild chat to find them. (Note: Level and skill level are also two different things.)

Dubhliam

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

I just want to say, giving helpful advice is fine. Immediately asking what skills and weapons someone uses puts them on the defensive. I am healer, I can easily heal all content, possibly aside from a few vet trials, and when someone asks me before the dungeon even starts what I'm using I get offended as it's a way to judge if I am good enough. I'm more than good enough. I don't need someone interrogating me.

Yes I realize this isn't exactly that happened but still, immediately trying to say, no you're doing it wrong, play the game how I want you to, will *** most people off. Just a simple fact

You're right, this is not what happened.
What happened is: I waited 5 minutes for the boss to fall so that I can give some advice.
I cannot give advice unless I know what I am dealing with.

If they had told me then and there to bugger off, I would happily oblige.
However, they needed me to tank, they know it's hard to get one, so they (he) tactically waited for the dungeon to be over before starting to get all offensive.

Dubhliam

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Here is a short conversation right after the last boss, Unfortunately I didn't SS the whispers I got after leaving the group, which were the reason I blocked him.

That comes off as eliteist, insulting, and I'm not at all suprised you got told where to shove it.

Seriously?

Those three players had a combined DPS of 4k.
I am sorry if I wanted to tell them that is nowhere near enough.

If that makes me elitist, then I'll happily wear the tag.

You on the other hand can go play with these players.
Knock yourself out.
***.

Yes, insulting people and telling them they dont know how to play in the most blunt way possible makes you look like an eliteist. And that, is the most polite name I could use. "Nothing worse than a know it all" Was the exact term used. A know it all to most people is someone who acts like they have all the answers, being unintentionally insulting because of course, they know how to do it better.

And when people feel insulted their less likely to lisen.

And that's about all there is to say really. And, and this is why we cant have nice things like difficulty without making it for like 10% of the playerbase. Sorry if that wasn't what you wanted to hear.

First of all @Doctordarkspawn you are barking at the wrong tree.
I was never insulting, I know how elitist some people can be, and I don't want to be one of those people.
In fact, that kind of people that get agitated quickly and start insulting right away are the ones that will bail on the group quickly.
They don't have the patience of sticking around and helping players.

Telling someone that he does not know something is not insulting if he or she is willing to take the advice.
If he is not willing to accept help, then yes, this comes off as insulting.

I have run PUGs through veteran Imperial City Prison.
First time there for three players, I was the only one to ever beat the dungeon.
As soon as the PUG formed, I noticed some low CPs in the group and asked if there is anyone that knows the dungeon.
When they all responded this was their first time, I didn't insult or belittle them, I started giving them instructions (via text chat damnit) on how the mechanics there worked and what the appropriate tactics were.
They were patient.
They were willing to learn.
They listened to what was said.
And after a while they got out of the hardest dungeons (at the time), grateful that there was someone to show them the ropes.
They did not have best in slot legendary gear.
They did not have great DPS.
They had willpower and a hunger to improve.

So you see,

depending on how you take it.

Stopnaggin

Yeah I hesitate to even que for vet dungeons, don't feel like hearing all the crap. I am 531cp but switched from magplar to stamplar so I'm still getting my dps up and how I want my setup. I run a lot of trials as they are more forgiving because of the amount of people. The more I found out about the mechanics of the trials it became much easier but I run with some guildies that are pretty cool.

Doctordarkspawn

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Here is a short conversation right after the last boss, Unfortunately I didn't SS the whispers I got after leaving the group, which were the reason I blocked him.

That comes off as eliteist, insulting, and I'm not at all suprised you got told where to shove it.

Seriously?

Those three players had a combined DPS of 4k.
I am sorry if I wanted to tell them that is nowhere near enough.

If that makes me elitist, then I'll happily wear the tag.

You on the other hand can go play with these players.
Knock yourself out.
***.

Yes, insulting people and telling them they dont know how to play in the most blunt way possible makes you look like an eliteist. And that, is the most polite name I could use. "Nothing worse than a know it all" Was the exact term used. A know it all to most people is someone who acts like they have all the answers, being unintentionally insulting because of course, they know how to do it better.

And when people feel insulted their less likely to lisen.

And that's about all there is to say really. And, and this is why we cant have nice things like difficulty without making it for like 10% of the playerbase. Sorry if that wasn't what you wanted to hear.

First of all @Doctordarkspawn you are barking at the wrong tree.
I was never insulting, I know how elitist some people can be, and I don't want to be one of those people.
In fact, that kind of people that get agitated quickly and start insulting right away are the ones that will bail on the group quickly.
They don't have the patience of sticking around and helping players.

Telling someone that he does not know something is not insulting if he or she is willing to take the advice.
If he is not willing to accept help, then yes, this comes off as insulting.

I have run PUGs through veteran Imperial City Prison.
First time there for three players, I was the only one to ever beat the dungeon.
As soon as the PUG formed, I noticed some low CPs in the group and asked if there is anyone that knows the dungeon.
When they all responded this was their first time, I didn't insult or belittle them, I started giving them instructions (via text chat damnit) on how the mechanics there worked and what the appropriate tactics were.
They were patient.
They were willing to learn.
They listened to what was said.
And after a while they got out of the hardest dungeons (at the time), grateful that there was someone to show them the ropes.
They did not have best in slot legendary gear.
They did not have great DPS.
They had willpower and a hunger to improve.

So you see,

depending on how you take it.

Quite frankly everyone I know who I would say that to would flip their ***. It comes across as insulting whether you like, acknowledge, or even notice. And when people feel insulted, their less likely to lisen.

Remains the case, remains my stance, remains exactly why you got the reaction you did. Even how you refer to it, "Scrum mentality", remains eliteist.

There is no point trying to talk to a wall and you've proven yourself to be on many occasions. You are allways right, yessiree. Now quit summoning me here so I dont have to lisen to this condescending garbage any longer, let your yes men fill your ears and never think about an opposing viewpoint again.

Elara_Northwind

I spent about 2 hours in blackheart haven once, normal version, before vet was added, after finding a group on group finder. This will sound unreal but it is not! The tank was a roleplayer who WALKED he would not run, and I asked him if he was taunting the boss because the boss was coming for me, as the healer, and he asked me what taunt was... The dungeon was halfway completed when I arrived too, they said that their other healer left the two dps ran away when we got to any group of mobs, and I asked them, 'why do you run when we are meant to be fighting?' and one of them said to me 'sorry, I was scared' they actually said that lol

All of these guys were cp rank too, but the thing is... they were so lovely I could not leave them I ended up tank/healing and doing some dps too in the end, and we finished it, they were so happy! One of them even joined my guild, and has improved greatly since

Drdeath20

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

But what if some of us like helping people learn to run dungeons?

Well i think a majority of the people wouldnt like this, you still could if you oversaw a zone chat and wanted to help them with it by telling them what to do?

Or you could use zone chat to find a group of people who you feel are in your level range, and leave the group finder as is.

I am just saying, this goes both ways.

Personally, when I PUG it's to see who I find. I have met some fun people, and helped some friendly newbies, and for all the nightmares I have had 10x more good runs. I will also say that while sometimes low level players cause stress in the group, the majority of times I have had an issue in a dungeon was due to high-CP players who felt every issue was someone else's fault. By comparison, the still-learning newbies are much more fun.

If I want to run with people of my skill level, I use guild chat to find them. (Note: Level and skill level are also two different things.)

I have zero problems running with 1 character under 160 CP'S on most vet dungeons but the other characters have to atleast be above 250CPs. The problem is 2 dps around 100 CP's que up with no mic, then do everything they should not do, and now I have to carry the group as a healer.

Siphoneer

Pibbles wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Here is a short conversation right after the last boss, Unfortunately I didn't SS the whispers I got after leaving the group, which were the reason I blocked him.

haha!

I want to see the whispers now!!

I must say, last weekend I levelled my alt healer all weekend in random normals. And every single PUG I joined was excellent. Polite, mostly skilled, knew their class, no idiocy with the red stuff, at least willing to learn and try when we got it wrong. Really decent players and there honestly was not a bad person amongst them over 3 days of intensive random dungeoneering. So it's not all bad, the Arx failures were a tiny minority in comparison to the overall experience last weekend.

I would be mad too, you were really rude

notimetocare

Play as you want doesnt include a stupid setting but people done understand that. I pay close attention for a few pulls, almost all low lvls i see are awful. I make suggestions but i am usually met with the same or silence

tinythinker

Dubhliam wrote: »

Hot_spur wrote: »

I agree that you were a good guy to stick with it. I've been playing group on and off, but in the beginning only solo. So' it's taken me a while to learn how to play. Yesterday I was invited to Shada's Tear by a CP250, I'm CP400something (I know that doesn't say how good, or bad, a player is), but there was no way he and I were going to run this. So I invited a CP350 friend who is quite good, and he invited a 561 who tanked for us, who was very good.

I got frustrated because I kept getting killed in the room with all of the ghosts, and I couldn't understand the mechanics. (I need to research it before going back).

The 250 guy kept getting killed too, so eventually the other two had to finish things off.

They were very patient with us and kept making suggestions. I feel like I learned a lot in just that one dungeon.

Anyway, people who are willing to teach and coach are much appreciated by me. If you just leave, or kick the lesser player with no dialogue, you're a prick. Sorry to be blunt.

This is exactly what bothers me.
I don't want to be that prick.
But in the end, I will lose one hour of my limited gametime carrying some ungrateful and rude scrubs.

The only solution I can see for myself is not running dungeons via Grouping Tool.
And that is the true problem of the Grouping Tool. Not that it doesn't work, but the fact that experienced players avoid it like the plague.

If I am going to carry someone through a dungeon, and help someone out, it might as well be a guildie that I can invite to join me on Teamspeak and help him out during or after the dungeon.

This is why group tutorial are needed. I play another game that has them. Each role has its own version that uses all NPCs except for the playerest doing the tutorial. There are 5 short lessons for each role and you get xp for completions. There are also baby mini-run tutorials you can do with a group for xp.

Take something like that and make completion of the tutorial sequence for a role a requirement to queue for that role in the group finder.

Mojmir

for the umpteenth time,join a guild. Using group finder is like starting a new job everyday.

Synfaer

I mostly run vet dungeons on my max cp tank and the majority of the time everything goes OK. I don't mind running with people of low CP if they are willing to listen if things don't go to plan. I will persist through multiple wipes if I can see people are trying, but sometimes you get that one player who has no idea what they are doing and will not listen to, or does not understand any advice.
One time it was the new guy to vet Darkshade who insisted on trying to melee the engine guardian, again and again...and again despite repeated requests to use ranged attacks. He finally used ranged after 4 wipes (it was a low CP group and the healer was getting over-extended trying to keep him alive) and the Guardian went down smoothly.
Then there is that special occasion when you get a matching set of 3 dysfunctional companions, as happened during random normal dungeon (BC) a while back. I join the group just before the clanfear boss after the previous tank left (he probably left for something less stressful like soloing vet MoL).
Everyone indicated they were ready, so I started the fight....the sorc proceeded to launch heavy resto attacks about every 10 seconds, the nightblade ran around crazily stabbing the clanfear with what appeared to be dual wielded wooden spoons and the templar stood off to the side rummaging through a sack. After 5 minutes the sorcerer and healer were dead and the boss was at 80%, the night blade was still running around like a headless chicken now light attacking with his bow, ignoring his companions corpses on the floor. After 6 minutes I had the healer up, who went back to his inventory management strategy, next was the sorc who impressively switched to a destro staff then continued his slow & steady heavy attack barrage.
After 8 minutes the boss was at 60%, the night blade was dead (probably from exhaustion), the healer had obviously found what he was looking for (the 2 handed sword he was currently ineffectually whacking the clanfear with) and the sorc had his resto staff back out casting AoE heals on himself. After 10 minutes I had the nightblade back up and he was back in there flailing away with his spoons, the sorc had retreated to a corner apparently reading a book and the healer finally had his what appeared to be his resto staff out but seemed perplexed what to do with it standing behind the clanfear as active as a cupboard. After about 12 minutes the boss was at 50%, the sorc was slumped in his corner lifeless, the nightblade had presumably got bored and had wandered out of my sight somewhere and the healer was patting the clanfear with his 2 hander.
At 13 minutes with no end in sight I put down my sword and shield and let the clanfear rip my throte out...

As I lay there peacefully pondering the futility of it all, my companions decided that perhaps I was not a right fit for their group and presumably went off in search of another.

For all I know they are still there now...


.

SolarCat02

@Synfaer You clearly enjoy writing. I was laughing so hard I forgot to cringe. Good job making that nightmare sound so humorous!

Vaoh

I simply don't have the time to stick around and help newbies. College stuffs .....but I'll stick around sometimes if I do have plenty of time and can really teach them something.

If one of the newbies is a total jerk? I'm out 100%. No chance if my help is met with hostility and insults.

Forget that. I could run with my awesome CP561 friends and slaughter everything, or run a Vet trial even. Instead I decided to help newbies out. So I applaud you OP.

You did a fantastic job

Curragraigue

code65536 wrote: »

I see groups like this all too often, unfortunately. And it's gotten worse now that the Group Finder is easier to use and more rewarding. This is the reason why all my tanks are gear-swap tanks--if I am in a group where the DPS is too low, I'll just swap to my DPS gear and leave them tankless (which is just fine for normal dungeons) or go DPS with a sword-and-board and taunt on my off-bar. I usually go with the former and pretend that I'm soloing the dungeon with the help of some cannon fodder to take some of the incoming damage off of me.

Whatever I do, I have one rule: Never Group Finder PUG a dungeon unless I'm prepared for the possibility that I'll have to shore up the DPS, even if I'm the tank or healer.

Spot on exactly how I approach it as well. Adapt to the group you are given by group finder.

heng14rwb17_ESO

There is freedom of choice .
One can always speak up in zone/guild chat for grouping.

LF1M, MAX CP, exp player only.

Silver_Strider

I was doing Vet Wayrest 1 on my DK tank. Got grouped with DPS that would only Lethal Arrow Spam on bosses with Acid Spray in AoE situations only and a Sorc Healer that only spammed Grand Healing, not a single attack thrown out at all.
I suggested using Volley for the bow users as well as ANYTHING else for attacking other than Lethal Arrow Spam, and Liquid Lightning from the Sorc, or even just summon the Twilight for SOME damage at least. The Bow users took my advice as use Volley instead of Acid Spray in AoE situations and 2h heavy attack for single target (I'd have taken Uppercut spamming over Lethal Arrow Spamming at that point honestly) while the Sorc did absolutely nothing different.

Sorc was a lost cause at that point but it appeared the Bow Users were at least TRYING to listen but I really wasn't in the mood to handhold any further after the near wipe to Mr."Come to me my Minions" Man so I just took off my Tank set up, changed Warhorn for Meteor and just started mowing down everything between me and the exit.

anitajoneb17_ESO

The bottom line is that unwanted advice is horrible at worst and wasted at best.

I was with guildies on TeamSpeak on sunday night and they asked me to join them on the Arx Corinium pledge. I warned them that I was on my newly created DK - and since it's my first DK ever, I have no clue yet what I'm doing when playing it. With the current XP boost, you can have a full-blown CP561+ character within a couple of hours, and still have to learn to play it from scratch. Also, I lacked skill points and gear.

They needed undaunted keys so they insisted on doing it on vet HM. I warned them again that I was nowhere near optimized but I said OK, knowing that the other DPS was an excellent player around the 30K+ DPS. And so we went through the dungeon tank and healer were good, other DPS pulling 30K and me pulling around 8K. It was a little bit slower than usual but we completed the pledge without major issues.

While nobody was mad at me for performing quite poorly (they had been warned), they couldn't help "teaching me" during the entire dungeon on "how to play a mDK DPS" !! I said nothing because I didn't want to hurt them, but I wish they had just shut up. I know I need gear, I know I need skill points, I know I need to do some research, and I know I need practice. It's an entirely new class for me, you don't master that in a couple of hours. It was late and I wasn't ready for advice. It was annoying and wasted. Simple as that.

OP, in your story your intentions were good and all, and you've been very patient, but you tried to give advice to people who did not ask for it and did not want it. That's annoying and wasted.
But don't generalize. Next PUG you might stumble upon people who need advice and are ready to receive some, and in that case, the experience will be positive for the whole group.

Buffler

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The bottom line is that unwanted advice is horrible at worst and wasted at best.

I was with guildies on TeamSpeak on sunday night and they asked me to join them on the Arx Corinium pledge. I warned them that I was on my newly created DK - and since it's my first DK ever, I have no clue yet what I'm doing when playing it. With the current XP boost, you can have a full-blown CP561+ character within a couple of hours, and still have to learn to play it from scratch. Also, I lacked skill points and gear.

They needed undaunted keys so they insisted on doing it on vet HM. I warned them again that I was nowhere near optimized but I said OK, knowing that the other DPS was an excellent player around the 30K+ DPS. And so we went through the dungeon tank and healer were good, other DPS pulling 30K and me pulling around 8K. It was a little bit slower than usual but we completed the pledge without major issues.

While nobody was mad at me for performing quite poorly (they had been warned), they couldn't help "teaching me" during the entire dungeon on "how to play a mDK DPS" !! I said nothing because I didn't want to hurt them, but I wish they had just shut up. I know I need gear, I know I need skill points, I know I need to do some research, and I know I need practice. It's an entirely new class for me, you don't master that in a couple of hours. It was late and I wasn't ready for advice. It was annoying and wasted. Simple as that.

OP, in your story your intentions were good and all, and you've been very patient, but you tried to give advice to people who did not ask for it and did not want it. That's annoying and wasted.
But don't generalize. Next PUG you might stumble upon people who need advice and are ready to receive some, and in that case, the experience will be positive for the whole group.

So you told them you had no clue what you were doing several times so when they offer advice it pisses you off. Just WOW!

anitajoneb17_ESO

Buffler wrote: »

So you told them you had no clue what you were doing several times so when they offer advice it pisses you off. Just WOW!

Yes, what's so "WOW!" in that ? What I need is time and practice, not advice.

Ch4mpTW

It's because of the things discussed here in this thread, that also motivates me to do dungeons and content overall solo (if I can). That way if anything goes wrong, it's my fault. And mine alone. I'm in full control of the situation, and everything is on my terms.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

It's because of the things discussed here in this thread, that also motivates me to do dungeons and content overall solo (if I can). That way if anything goes wrong, it's my fault. And mine alone. I'm in full control of the situation, and everything is on my terms.

Don't put everything into the same category. Looking at your signature, I think you've done quite a lot of group content and I assume that was fun too.
There are good groups and bad groups. There are combinations of people that work well together and combinations that don't, and there are times to give/receive advice and times to just shut up. That's all.

Aliniel

My normal behavior in random normal dungeons:

• I join
• I get all low levels
• I do everything myself - DPS (20+), Tank (Daedric Shild OP) and keep myself alive (Critical Surge)
• I leave saying "Thank you" and getting no response most of the time

Anyway, the point is - ONE TAMRIEL DOESN'T WORK. I did a lot of normal dungeons as a healer. This works. Healing went quite well. Tanking is quite viable as well. Those lowbies get their HP pumped up. But DPS? It's non existent from low level players. They deal below 5k most of the time and never use AoE. EVER.