Why There is PTS

TheHsN

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

Ahzek

They use it to find bugs ?
Then why do about 90% off the reported bugs still make it to live ?

TheHsN

Ahzek wrote: »

They use it to find bugs ?
Then why do about 90% off the reported bugs still make it to live ?

thats is their problem that they dont know how to fix man :D:D we report all we see:D

BurritoESO

It would be nice if the people that we gave money to, to play the game they made, actually have half a crap about what they spit back at us

hrothbern

We better have two PTS forums

One for opinions directed at each other (and ZOS)

One for sharing information between us (and bugs for ZOS)

RebornV3x

good question its funny to see all these feedback threads on this and that when most of the time they don't even care.

Panda_iMunch

Call me crazy, but I think they have a test server to mess with Fengrush with HP regen builds

TheHsN

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Call me crazy, but I think they have a test server to mess with Fengrush with HP regen builds

that was funny really..:):):)

Elsonso

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

No, they don't act on every combat or balance suggestion that they get from the forum. Thay can watch what people do on the PTS server and compare this to what they are trying to accomplish. If what they see on PTS matches what they are expecting to see on PTS, and the suggestions are not better (to them) than what is on PTS, they won't change.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can take them several weeks to make changes, which is longer than PTS is in use. Even if they like a change, or want to fix a bug, it can take a while to do it.

TheHsN

lordrichter wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

No, they don't act on every combat or balance suggestion that they get from the forum. Thay can watch what people do on the PTS server and compare this to what they are trying to accomplish. If what they see on PTS matches what they are expecting to see on PTS, and the suggestions are not better (to them) than what is on PTS, they won't change.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can take them several weeks to make changes, which is longer than PTS is in use. Even if they like a change, or want to fix a bug, it can take a while to do it.

hımm i guess u get paid...:D...

Armitas

Official Feedback thread for Dragon Knights. 21 pages of our time completely wasted. They said they would get back with us on the suggestions which never happened.

InvitationNotFound

lordrichter wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

No, they don't act on every combat or balance suggestion that they get from the forum. Thay can watch what people do on the PTS server and compare this to what they are trying to accomplish. If what they see on PTS matches what they are expecting to see on PTS, and the suggestions are not better (to them) than what is on PTS, they won't change.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can take them several weeks to make changes, which is longer than PTS is in use. Even if they like a change, or want to fix a bug, it can take a while to do it.

oh man, i had a good laugh. you're still one of my favorite white knights.

let's look at how pts worked all the time so far:
people go there and find messed up things (bugs, exploits and unbalanced things). they report it. and it doesn't matter how severe something is, in all likelihood you'll see it on the live servers.

it's not about a developer having a different opinion, like superman charges are a great thing and we completely need that on the live servers (i guess you know how that story went). it most likely isn't even a developer not giving a single f***. they have their schedule (set by management) and it doesn't matter what happens, the patch has to be released on that given date.

Furthermore, it is by now absolutely clear, that the players are responsible for all the testing (QA). Otherwise, most of the severe bugs wouldn't even reach PTS as they are often pretty obvious.

Darlon

TheHsN wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

No, they don't act on every combat or balance suggestion that they get from the forum. Thay can watch what people do on the PTS server and compare this to what they are trying to accomplish. If what they see on PTS matches what they are expecting to see on PTS, and the suggestions are not better (to them) than what is on PTS, they won't change.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can take them several weeks to make changes, which is longer than PTS is in use. Even if they like a change, or want to fix a bug, it can take a while to do it.

hımm i guess u get paid...:D...

yeah, everyone that does not fully agree with you get's paid...

Lava_Croft

The best thing about PTS is that inbetween PTS and Live, ZOS almost always includes untested changes that if we are really lucky are documented but most of the time just pop up at random because someone noticed something different.

Whatever monkey is managing this group of 'developers', I hope for your sake you don't feel as crappy as the product you're responsible for.

TheHsN

Darlon wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

No, they don't act on every combat or balance suggestion that they get from the forum. Thay can watch what people do on the PTS server and compare this to what they are trying to accomplish. If what they see on PTS matches what they are expecting to see on PTS, and the suggestions are not better (to them) than what is on PTS, they won't change.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can take them several weeks to make changes, which is longer than PTS is in use. Even if they like a change, or want to fix a bug, it can take a while to do it.

hımm i guess u get paid...:D...

yeah, everyone that does not fully agree with you get's paid...

it was a joke man...

Elsonso

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

No, they don't act on every combat or balance suggestion that they get from the forum. Thay can watch what people do on the PTS server and compare this to what they are trying to accomplish. If what they see on PTS matches what they are expecting to see on PTS, and the suggestions are not better (to them) than what is on PTS, they won't change.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it can take them several weeks to make changes, which is longer than PTS is in use. Even if they like a change, or want to fix a bug, it can take a while to do it.

oh man, i had a good laugh. you're still one of my favorite white knights.

let's look at how pts worked all the time so far:
people go there and find messed up things (bugs, exploits and unbalanced things). they report it. and it doesn't matter how severe something is, in all likelihood you'll see it on the live servers.

it's not about a developer having a different opinion, like superman charges are a great thing and we completely need that on the live servers (i guess you know how that story went). it most likely isn't even a developer not giving a single f***. they have their schedule (set by management) and it doesn't matter what happens, the patch has to be released on that given date.

Furthermore, it is by now absolutely clear, that the players are responsible for all the testing (QA). Otherwise, most of the severe bugs wouldn't even reach PTS as they are often pretty obvious.

I am glad I was entertaining, but I hold several things to be absolutely true.

They say they listen, and I think they do listen, but it does not matter like we want it to. They seem to have a definite "Daddy know best" philosophy. Like a parent dealing with a child, they just make decisions and rarely explain why they are doing things. They just do it because "it is best", and once they make that decision, they stick to it. So, they have in their mind what they want to do, and that is what they do. They are listening, but the key to getting them to act is to suggest a course of action before they decide what to do. By the time they announce something, it is pretty much too late. PTS? WAAAAAAY too late.

Contrary to what the players think, ZOS does not put PTS out there to find and fix bugs. Furthest thing from the truth, as near as I can tell. I think that when an update hits PTS, they know almost all of the bugs that they are planning to fix before the update goes Live. Sure, players find a few new ones, but I bet that the vast majority of bugs reported on PTS are discovered to be duplicates of bugs they already know about. The slow manner in which ZOS addresses bugs means that it is frequently too late to fix player discovered bugs from PTS before they hit Live.

ZOS perception of the importance of a bug is very different from what the players think. What is 'critical' to players is not necessarily 'critical' for ZOS. Let's face it, if ZOS was interested in getting fast fixes out for exploits and broken skills important to the players, they would move heaven and earth to fix them. When they want to do this, we know. We can tell by hot fixes and unplanned patch maintenance what sorts of bugs they feel are really critical. Every other fix is scheduled. Until ZOS puts a priority on a bug or exploit fix and schedules it, it sits in the queue and gets moldy. Cyrodiil lag fix? Movement speed? Action bar lockouts? Skills not firing? Skills not doing what they are supposed to do? Wall exploits? CE? These will be fixed when ZOS decides they are important to fix, and not a single patch earlier. We can make threads about it all day long and drive DaryaK and family nuts closing them all, but these things won't get fixed until ZOS decides they want to fix it.

ZOS prioritizes schedules and features over fixes. Thirty months after launch, it is apparent that it is more important to deliver new content than to fix existing content before it ships. I am confident that their backlog of bugs increases with each Update. I would not be surprised if they have an astounding list of unfixed bugs, some dating back into 2012 or 2013. No one has ever accused ZOS of being too diligent in fixing bugs. If they fixed the bugs before they released them, we would still be waiting for the initial PC/Mac launch. (ok, a little bit of an exaggeration) Update 12 has a release date, even if they are not telling us what it is. My guess is that they will release within a few days of that date, which will probably be Oct 3 or Oct 10 on PC/Mac. (Don't forget, they don't want Update 12 launch to interfere with Witches Festival. If we cannot log into the game, we cannot buy Limited Time stuff in the Crown Store.)

Finally...

ZOS has a PTS so they can validate and tune their vision of the game. That is what they do. It is so very rare for them to UNDO something that is on PTS that I think it has happened ONE TIME. ZOS is pretty stubborn when it comes to changes in vision, and this is likely due to the fact that they are like a battleship. It takes them forever to change course, and they need a darned good reason to do it. They would much rather tweak the course than change it.

So, players need to be the dutiful PTS drones that ZOS wants. Play PTS. Answer the questions posed in the ZOS-created threads. Validate the vision. Challenges to the vision welcome, but they don't really have the time to act upon them in this Update.

I do want to add that it is cool that a "white knight" on the forums is someone who dislikes how ZOS is handling the game and can do it in a manner that is not just name calling. All of the bolded items above are problems with ZOS that I am so tired of mentioning, especially since I know they will never change. In many ways, ZOS is off in their own world and we are just observers.

Garwulf

lordrichter wrote: »

snip

So, players need to be the dutiful PTS drones that ZOS wants. Play PTS. Answer the questions posed in the ZOS-created threads. Validate the vision. Challenges to the vision welcome, but they don't really have the time to act upon them in this Update.
snip

Or alternatively, do not download the PTS unless you are specifically looking for exploits that will help you win-at-all-costs'. Why spoil the 'fun' of the bugfest going live.

ZOS_GinaBruno

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

Pandorii

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

This is really insightful, Gina. Thanks for taking the time to write this out. I hope the silence spells will be shorter over time. =D

Preyfar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports...

Odd question, but about how many bug reports does ZOS get during feedback cycles? I imagine thousands of players hitting /bug to report issues crops up on the PTS but it would be interesting to know how much feedback ZOS gets. Or, at the very least, what could we be doing better to report bugs to make it easier for the dev team to address them?

I know I've put in bug reports that are basically useless from a testing aspect (e.g. "I get stuck in sprint and can't attack") since I have no way to easily replicate it, but what sorts of things make the process easier from the dev POV?

Mojmir

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

What might sound like this to you would be insightful to some of us. A recurring theme around here is the logic that goes into changes.appreciate the post though Gina.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Preyfar wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports...

Odd question, but about how many bug reports does ZOS get during feedback cycles? I imagine thousands of players hitting /bug to report issues crops up on the PTS but it would be interesting to know how much feedback ZOS gets. Or, at the very least, what could we be doing better to report bugs to make it easier for the dev team to address them?

I know I've put in bug reports that are basically useless from a testing aspect (e.g. "I get stuck in sprint and can't attack") since I have no way to easily replicate it, but what sorts of things make the process easier from the dev POV?

Oh gosh, I don't have a single number but it's a fair amount. Many times, bug reports we receive have already been found internally, but we just haven't had a chance to fix them yet. Other times, they're new and we're grateful for their submission. After all, there are only so many hours in the day for us to test this massive game, and only so many bodies!

As for what you could do, /bug is the preferred way to report an issue you find on PTS. Doing so actually gives us a lot of information about your character that a forum post just doesn't cover. That said, forum posts are useful if you want to post multiple screenshots or include a video of an issue. Also, don't forget the rule of "there's no such thing as too much information."

DHale

Ok Gina I get this and 100 percent agree but there are huge gaps in that. Why has it been over a year to fix green dragon blood? To fix toppling charge the Devs broke crit rush and invasion. Now people get banned for using the very skills that worked perfectly fine and are now broken. Why did you slow down characters now I slow fall off tiny rocks or come to a complete stop on my horse from a tiny pebble?

What was the rationale for making these changes how much feedback do you need? Then random things happen for no apparent reason like nerfing the Lightning staff. Revert these things back recode toppling... Bug fixed. Creating three bugs to fix one bug is not efficient nor effective. That said this patch was never about balance or fixing things and I want pts to be the environment where we find the bugs and fix them before going live.

Armitas

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

I believe you. There are a lot of awesome people at zos, including yourself that exceed the industry standard for thier position. You people are stars, when we speak generically about ZOS we don't mean you. ...But I don't know how to explain why mDK has been the way it is for so long. Or why stamina is allowed to continue its power creep before rebalancing. I can't find a good reason for why this is happening and allowed to continue. If it were just my opinion I would accept thier decision, but its not just my opinion, its public knowledge regarding mDK and now finally its gotten so bad and allowed to continue for so long that it has now infected mBlade and mSorc.

I would be arrogant if I trusted in my singular perspective alone. Are they incapable of self doubt in the face of player after player dumping their hearts out expressing how broken things are? We are wrong from time to time, but at some point you just exhaust your burden of proof on silent ears leading to despair and anger over an incredoulous audience within ZOS for which nothing seems to appease. What more can be done than has already been done by the playerbase and community leaders?

No one is pointing to this person saying you're not working hard enough. We all know everyone is putting in long hours well above their share. We aren't pointing at the person but what they are doing and saying "why are you putting all your effort here when it should be over here. We are suffering over here not there."

UrQuan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

As someone who used to be involved in development/deployment of software releases (in fact, that was still my job when I started playing ESO), this rings true. I know that when we did UAT for big releases (small releases didn't get UAT, they just got pushed out) it was actually very rare for any of the testers from the business who we brought in to find an issue that we weren't already aware of, but it did happen sometimes.

When it did happen, the issue had to be prioritized based on a wide range of factors. We had to look at whether we could replicate it, whether it was something we could easily fix in-house vs. whether it had to be done by the vendor we were working with, what the severity of it was, what the effort involved in fixing it was, whether there was a workaround available, what teams were available to work on it, what other functional areas may be affected by it, whether we had time to re-test everything that may be affected by the fix, etc.

And of course when requirements coming from the business changed (this would be the equivalent of people on the forums asking for non-bug-related changes) whether we could make those changes for the release depended on very similar factors. Often we had to simply say "no, that's not making it in" unless it was something that was really important.

Arciris

From what i have seen on the forum, I would say that a large population of "forumers" understand that it requires time and effort to work on bug fixing.
What is completely disheartening is the prioritization of said bug fixes.
Just an example: Movement Speed affects all areas of the game:
- It is immersion breaking when you're the Hero following a quest giver and you're out-runned by a simple NPC.
- It is immersion breaking when you can barely complete a beginners quest that depends on speed to be complete (there are several like that).
- It affects PvE combat in a very subtle and yet deadly way: try to w.a.s.d. skillfully your way out of flame or shock waves sent by a Boss? not anymore as we are too slow to do it.
- It affects exploration/gathering as it takes longer to go from point A to point B.
This bug was introduced by an unasked change on movement speed, which was something no one was complaining about (apart from that engine that shall not be named, but that is an entirely different issue anyway).
We never got a credible explanation on why that change was made. The Dev Team insists on keeping this change (along with the bug it causes) out of what appears to be sheer stubbornness. A customer caring company would have reverted this change and - if that change was something the devs felt like it should really go through, they would have introduced it at a later date - bug free.
For now I feel like Zeni is like Grima Worm Tongue trying to numb King Theoden into death with his words. And like King Theoden said: "you would have me crawling on all four like a beast".

BurritoESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

So can you tell me how long it takes to simply make dragon blood heal more? Does it really take that long?

Curragraigue

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

@ZOS_GinaBruno have you considered keeping a stickied list that you could update of 1) things being considered 2) things being reviewed 3) things being tested 4) things being added next update? It would certainly quell some of these sorts of complaints.

Essiaga

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

I understand bugs take time to fix ... My larger complaint is ZOS implementing things with out going to the community about it. You have a free Focus Group that ACTUALLY pays ZOS to test and play the game but I've not seen any many discussions on the matter. Send out a email to bring people to the forums for a specific discussion. "The future of Craglorn" ... I'm not saying you have to do what we say. Just ask what what we'd like to see in BG/Arenas, Future DLC, etc. And for for god sake don't alter the core of content to appease the few that are whining about wanting to solo MORE content in an MMO.

I'll site a few examples ...

1. Weapon Ults ... How much production time went into Destro and Resto, because I have yet to see a single good review on either. Wrobel comment on the feed back after the the production time was spent on how he's going to try to give magicka players what hey want ... Why not just do that ahead of time? We've been talking weapon ults in guild for 2 years. I bet people have been posting ideas. How are you so out of touch?

ZOS has other visions then the community, which is fine. A lot of the time it works out. Some times it misses so hard that the money you make from DLC then gets invested back into making it worth purchasing.

2.Imperial City .... PVP/PVE mash up that dries up the second another 160 zone came along and has been complained about since its release. Campaigns were REMOVED after that DLC that should have INCREASED the PVP population. Some conversation with the community would have given ZOS a greater idea of what the community would or would not like to see. Personally I don't understand why Districts were not a PVE adventure zone and sewers a PVP setting. I think that DLC would have gone over so much better.

Then to spice it up ZOS adds flag flipping, rez timers, and load screens when you get killed out of an enemy district. Some people just want to do the quests. Now they get ganked and instead of just going back to the quest again, they get a time out before going through a potentially infinite load screen. Talk about annoying.

3. Whats even more annoying is the changes to Craglorn. It's the ONLY adventure zone we got. ZOS is going to be dropping solo DLC after solo DLC but Craglorn was something else for groups to do besides pledges and trials. The reason craglorn failed is ZOS increased the level cap, MULTIPLE times and left it a lower level zone. Of course no one is going to be there when they can get useful things elsewhere. How many groups were running AA, Hel Rah, and SO while drops were v14crap? Most my guilds stopped all that crap because there was no value there. They farmed WGT until vMS came along. No one is currently bothering with Silver and Gold zones because they're empty and unnecessary. The provide crap for drops ... and ZOS is fixing that. Why not just do the same for Craglorn? Moving from Vet to CP was silly to do before One Tamrial.

Altering Craglorn so Solo players get to complete quests is like remove PVP from Cyro so solo players can quest. It silly and waters down the game. Wheres the variety? Kill WB in ever zone is going to get REALLY stale really quick.

Craglorn could have become the Undaunted zone, requiring 4 players, and people would group up to grind Undaunted on new toons or for some BOE rewards IF SIMPLY YOU SCALED IT TO 160!! But instead ZOS does what it does which is find a inch and scratch it until its bleeds.

PVP is flip flags, flip flags, flip flags or got to IC and flip some more flags. Questing is 2nd to Flag flippers in IC. Now we have cyro city flipping flags ... my god could you give me the option to NOT stand on flag watching it turn colors? Something new would be amazing. I really don't look forward to Arena/Battle Grounds. If there's more flags to flip I'm going to be so disappointed.

Group PVE content is Dungeons and trials. Normal Trials are going to dry up with BOP cause once you get your gear you're out. No point in going back. You created a biding war mentality that's already turning players off. People EXPECT to get 500k for jewelry pc now, because later you'll be bidding on blue jewelry.

You want people to do the content then make it unique. Ask your player base what they'd like to see. Don't just keep giving us more of the same and revert old content to more of the same.

One last thing. I've been doing the content and not getting the drops. My unlucky arse is running out of time to get my purple jewelry from normal trials that SO MANY have been able to farm over the past 3 months. Soon I'll be stuck with blue for normal OR seek out an actual raiding guild who will likely giggle at my dps which less then 3k to low for their many of their standards. My gear hasn't improved since the day I equipped it (March 2016). Not from Pledges, or Trials. Not from gold keys. Nothing. RNG hates me.

When every think is BOP people have no reason to farm content beyond their last piece. It's MUCH harder to find a helm run now then it was 2 years ago. Even WGT is harder to find a group to farm. Normal trials are become solely a PuG thing now because guilds that run together completed their sets together. If you weren't on board you got left behind and need to look else where for groups. That's WITH BOE sets dropping that can be sold on guild vendors. Soon PuGs will dry up too.

Group content is getting the shaft this Update. All the excitement I had for Tamrial One is gone.

SirMewser

TheHsN wrote: »

Zos using PTS and US just for findings BUGS nothing more..

they dont listen any suggestions about COMBAT and BALANCE or Race Passives or Ultimate or ETC... So we are just workers like never get paid But find and report all bugs...

Ditto on the PTS being for bugs.
Some people get so upset when I post about bugs that they start replying with irrelevant info directly at me so the developers have to dig for my report and supporting comments.

There should be some sort of flagging system for OPs to hide a post by default so it is only shown when cascaded.

TheHsN

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We do care about everyone's feedback and bug reports, and many of the devs spend a lot of time reading feedback both during PTS cycles and in between while we are just doing Live incrementals. That said, there are a lot of different factors that go into a decision when changing any aspect of the game whether it be an ability, feature, etc. Feedback from everyone is one very important part, but we also look at hard data and how a change would affect every other part of the game. If we were to change X ability, how much development time would it take? How many teams would be impacted? How long will it take to test and verify? How would it impact PvE? PvP? Dungeons? Trials? Dueling? etc etc. These are just a few of the questions we need to ask - there are many, many more though!

We know it's frustrating to spend a lot of time writing your feedback only to be met with silence, and no amount of "don't worry, we read!" can remedy that feeling. We're working on it, though, and do hope everyone continues to post feedback even if the outcome isn't exactly what you were hoping to see. Please remember, though, that we need to look at the big picture and there are so many different things a single change could affect.

Also, it's worth mentioning that we need time to react on feedback based on how work is done internally. We know there weren't as many fixes as you were hoping to see in the latest PTS patch, but it normally takes a couple patches in order to implement changes based on feedback we've seen. The whys and hows are a long and boring explanation, but in general it takes us a couple patches to get feedback-related changes into a PTS patch (so if you posted feedback or a bug report last Friday, you're more likely to see the change/fix in next week's incremental rather than the one we just had yesterday).

I just wanna thank you for the Explains...
But i wanna say something...there were many threads about this and finally we get some answer and very very very thank you for that late but affective answer ...when u write and answer like this we still keep our hope to wait for better changes that we really and game really need... So i will just sit and wait till the pts gets live...I hope till then u adress all issues such as;

( BALANCE between Magicka and Stamina - Weapon ultimates balance - Class Balance - Gear Balance )

Again thank u ...And u are the best if u are not here i dont know what would ZOS do:)... And wishes u ur baby and family healthy happy long life...