What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Dromede · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion a vast majority of ESO players are morons.

There is exactly zero stuff that these boxes will contain that will have any actual effect on you in game...and yet...You're all talking about how this is the death of the game.

*** I played GW2 and they had these boxes....I had a crap ton of them just sitting in the bank and I maybe opened 1 the entire time I played from a key i randomly got.

The sheer absurdity of the posters in this thread is mind boggling...

Children are just one side of the coin - those can get addicted to gambling when exposed at a young age - the other side of the coin are people which are already gambling addicted or have a low level of self-control when it comes to things they want, even if they cannot afford those and it would bring them into an existence crisis or their family.

Ok Helen Lovejoy; if you can't handle box sales in a video game you can't handle being on the internet in the first place. In fact its safe to say you can't handle being anywhere at any given time in the United States since you'll be tempted by "chance"

I did not expect you to understand the deeper meaning of what an addiction means for the person being addicted. That they do not have control over their behavior anymore, that it is an impulse control disorder.

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

I understand the deeper meaning of it; I'm laughing at how absurd you're being by trying to say we shouldn't have any lock boxes because someone with ICD might play this game. Completely ignoring the fact that a person with ICD would have to deal with a myriad of other things in life before he even got to the point of playing this game. Basically you're using the "Think of the Children" argument for limiting something. Can't have Cokes, To much sugar in them, Think of the Children.....Someone might become addicted to ***, Lets ban it for everyone, Think of the Children....

hell....ESO is pretty violent; It might cause some kid to go on a murdering spree....Lets remove all fighting from the game cause Think of the Children.

What kind of an argument is this - basically saying - well, ICD people have problems anyway, so we can just put up another trap they can fall into without to even care, because they could as well fall into any other trap. And when we are on it, we make this trap really expensive for them and prey on their weakness and abuse them - they do not deserve better.

That is basically your point of view.

That's not fair at all. You're taking an extremely thin slice of population, and use them as an example to show how boxes will ruin their lives. Even though in reality they do have much more pressing problems than gambling-like mechanic in the game that they play (both the game, and the box part) completely voluntarily.

This game is rated M for mature 17+. At least that's the way it was at launch. Argument 'think of the children' is invalid by the nature of the game.

You can't shield children or anyone else from all world's reality

And i completely agree that 'Rng loot boxes' are not an ethical business practice, moreover, i have no plans to participate in buying anything random.

I used to play a p2w game with a box event held once every couple months. For a week, the game would have a pretty huge influx of money, and people would get pretty toxic. Exclusive combat pets, purple fishing rods and other crafting means would be introduced, while most people would get health pots and other meaningless stuft.

Guilds would fight each other (dueling within the same faction was enabled) and break each other's purple exclusive loot just to prove a point that they are the strongest. If a single player gets it, he gets attacked all the time to get that fishing rod or whatever broken.

It was pretty toxic, but it brought money to the company. The game is still alive even though it's been over 7 years since i logged in the last time..

So on top of all mixed feelings, i'm more ok with the boxes than not, but i will not tolerate any armor or weapon loot from them. I can live with cosmetic unique stuff for now, but ZOS is already pushing a little too far.

And yes, it's just tasteless. One would expect more class and lore reasoning from an ES game.

Abeille · August 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

MissBizz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

If ZOS wants to add some "fun" gambling, then there must be one rule: Every possible drop from the RNG crate must be available for direct purchase.

This would allow people to try their luck at getting an item cheaply. But it would not leave RNG as the only way to get an item.

I do not like to gamble, I never gamble, and I would not be tempted to gamble. So these crates have absolutely zero effect on me personally. But they can and do affect people who don't have that kind of self-control. And by having items that are obtainable only through random crates--either items that are "discontinued" or items that are exclusive to the gamble boxes--they are enticing the compulsive players to gamble. And even though it doesn't affect me, it is a low tactic that elicits my disapproval.

So, ZOS, if you want to add gambling, do it right: Make everything that is in your current gamble box pool available for direct purchase. Rotate stuff in and out as you see fit, but there should never by anything in the gamble pool that cannot be direct-purchased. It's just a virtual store of bits--don't insult our intelligence by claiming "limited space". Make this change, and I will withdraw all objections. Don't, and I'll know just how far you are willing to exploit a certain segment of your customer base.

If the lockboxes are guaranteed to be happening, then I think this would be the best compromise. I don't mind if they re-use limited time items, because they can still come back later. But they should not have lockbox-exclusive items. Anything that can be won in a lockbox should have a direct purchase alternative.

starkerealm wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Disclaimer - This isn't a defense of ZOS adding lockboxes. This is a defense of the currently unfounded claim that ZOS said they never would.

It actually kinda is. I'm sorry, but there's no other point to that post. Additionally, there was a "no, never" quote, probably on ESO live, I just can't be bothered to hunt it down for you because, quite frankly, at this point? I've got better things to do with my life.

If the only thing we'd gotten saying, "no lockboxes" was a mealy mouthed, "no plans at this time," I would not have come back. The quote exists out there. If you don't believe me, or want to prove me wrong, you can go prove it's never been stated.

Not so. The point of the post is to defend ZOS against the people who are accusing them of breaking promises or lying. I've often jumped in on threads to defend ZOS' (and anyone else's) integrity while still being neutral (and sometimes in opposition) of their decisions and opinions. They've already fallen down on their moral integrity by introducing something which encourages gambling, but I have yet to see an accusation of outright lying or broken promises that is actually valid, so I am skeptical over what was actually said vs what has been inferred.

And I'm sure you know that asking me to prove non-existence of that quote is a logical fallacy

@Enodoc Obviously I have not read through all the posts (so you may have seen this), but there is a quote where it says "We don't have any plans to add locked RNG boxes. " Of course, it's not a promise, and of course now everyone can say "Well at that time, they had no plans for it". So sure it's not a solid no, but it still is uneasy. Link

Just for the record, @MissBizz the current defense people are making of that quote is "They said no locked RNG boxes, as in no locked boxes dropped in the world that you have to buy keys for. They never said no RNG boxes directly sold in the store".

Also, I woke up to a bunch of notifications that I couldn't see because the comments were already deleted. You guys better not be flaming with my @handle while I'm out :P

Garldeen · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

My voice will be lost in this thread but I'm not going to stay silent.

If/when they implement this or confirm it, I will have to say goodbye.

I have an addictive personality (been sober for about 6 years now) and ESO is (or was) my escape, my joy. I love collecting mounts, pets and costumes but I try to be very conscious with what I'm buying. Items that hide behind gambling boxes takes my choice away. I can't choose it. I can't decide what I purchase.

This makes me unhappy.

When a game that made me feel such joy suddenly makes me feel unhappy, I can't support it.

I looked at the crown store showcase again after the boxes were announced and realised I had lost my excitement for the costume and mount being released for a "Limited Time". I was looking forward to them only yesterday.

Make as big or as little of a deal of this as you will, but you're asking for real world money.

I genuinely supported you. I've got fan t-shirts and have stayed up until 5am to watch streams and live shows. I feel like I've met a hero and all he turned out to be is a greedy man in an expensive suit.

So basically you are leaving the game because you don't want to buy things from the crown store, and you are upset because they are trying to make money.... even though the things they will be selling are merely cosmetic. I'm very confused.

Nope, managed to get that 100% wrong. She would like to buy things from the crown store but doesn't want to have to gamble to get what is wanted. It is not about buying items, it is about the process to get the items

MissBizz · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Thanks for the clarification @Abeille . Obviously to many folks those are different, but to me, it really doesn't matter if I find the box in the open world or not, I'm still spending crowns to open it. Although I can see how those can be different

Abeille · August 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

MissBizz wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification @Abeille . Obviously to many folks those are different, but to me, it really doesn't matter if I find the box in the open world or not, I'm still spending crowns to open it. Although I can see how those can be different

I see no relevant difference, especially since all the MMOs that I played before that had these boxes had them in their store too, not only dropped in the world.

Although, I imagine it is more of a temptation if you drop a box you can't open (and then have to buy the key) than having the box in the Crown Store only. So what ZOS is doing is a little less predatory.

Morimizo · August 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

I think it was @Elijah_Crow that wrote earlier about the ESO Crown Store being the most ethical of any MMO...well that's like saying someone is the "least violent" druglord. Praising with faint [snip], don't you think?

Or is it [snip] with faint Praises?

A convenience and cosmetic cash shop in a game that is buy to play is not equivalent to any sort of drug lord. These games need to show solid revenue for companies to continue to develop content and invest in growing a game.

I understand you want it for free. You probably feel you deserve it for free. Entitlement generation no doubt.

If ESO being profitable means the game is around for years to come, I'm all for it.

[edited quoted post]

Ok, @Elijah_Crow , Mr. Take-it-out-of-context and blow my comment out of proportion, I NEVER even intimated I wanted it for free. You are WAY off base, and completely ignorant as to my purchases on the Crown Store and how I have supported this game.

There is a difference between, what I asked for, a direct way to buy content from the Crown Store, knowing exactly what I am purchasing, and having an exclusive item (that would have normally been sold straight-up on the store) hiding inside random boxes where it is most likely the purchaser will spend MUCH more to get it, if ever.

As far as my reference to a druglord, it is a perfect metaphor, whether you agree or not. ZOS will not be able to sell these random boxes to rational people who are careful with their money, and do not have addictive personalities. Neither can druglords. I'm not referring to ZOS directly in everything they do or everything they are, I'm saying this tactic is greedy, irresponsible, and preys on irrational folks who have addictive personalities and can't control the spending of their money, and that makes the TACTIC similar to a druglord. Get it? Or is this where you succumb to other monotonous cliches like, you must live in your parent's basement to disagree with this feature? Or you must be 12 years old? Or other jumping-to-conclusions-with-no-proof pathetic attempts to belittle someone that doesn't care to share your opinion??

Good luck with that.

Also, you said this:

I really felt that the poster I quoted was expressing that "obviously" the company has made enough money and shouldn't pursue new avenues regardless of what they were.

I NEVER said that they should stop stocking the Crown store, or releasing DLCs, or offering ESO plus, not even close. What I obviously suggested was that ZOS did not need to resort to this scheme to make money. If that's not true, and they really need to resort to this to be profitable, not only do I find that hard to believe, but it's sad.

MissBizz · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification @Abeille . Obviously to many folks those are different, but to me, it really doesn't matter if I find the box in the open world or not, I'm still spending crowns to open it. Although I can see how those can be different

I see no relevant difference, especially since all the MMOs that I played before that had these boxes had them in their store too, not only dropped in the world.

Although, I imagine it is more of a temptation if you drop a box you can't open (and then have to buy the key) than having the box in the Crown Store only. So what ZOS is doing is a little less predatory.

Yes, you are correct. I can see that more "tempting" if you already have the box, it would just sit and stare at you.

Well, either way, I feel putting items exclusively in these RNG boxes is a terrible idea. Like I said, I (as well I'm sure many others) will pay a very premium price for limited time offers.. that others can try their chances with the "economical" lock boxes, but at least having it available for direct purchase would be better.

Felt so strongly I made a very impromptu video about my thoughts on these. (Warning if you watch, it's almost 20 minutes long and a lot of babbling with me repeating things)

Kemono · August 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

And now for something completly diffrent (then those pointles rants)

How loot bags look like in Secret World MMO
Im posting this -cos it seems that loot bags in TESO are going to look VERY similiar

So first: membership (or sub) in TSW give you 1200 Bonus Points -enough to get you ~6 bags

There is a selection of diffrent bags in the store, there are also seasonal bags they are not avaible at this time

most bags are cosmetic only, BUT some bags are selling "power" - mystery box and Deep Mystery box where you have chance to drop masive ammount of gold or top level "augments"

Event bags look like this - only diffence is that they cost bit more, gives 3 coins instead of 1 (like normal bag) and have a special rule of mass drops that is not important in this thread

Bags gives: one trash "common" item AND one beter quality item item
Normal bag also gives: ONE lucky Coin
Event bag -gives THREE Lucky Coins

There is a in game exchange system for lucky coins, it look like this
Thats "Lucky Coin" vendor

Take a close look -gold/lengendary drop at vendor cost 50 LUCKY COINS,
If you purchase 10x "5bags bundle" you end with 60 lucky coins, so cost are really huge in IRL cash(like 8-10 month of sub) to get exactly what you want from vendor

Drop rates are not really all that bad - i think legendary(gold) items are something like 10%, BUT you need to get a ton of bags to get item you want cos most bags have quite big "purple section". it seems that its easier to get gold drop, then complete all purple ones

BTW -important diffrence between TSW and TESO systems -TSW loot bag items are TRADEABLE on auction house !!!
And thats very GOOD, cos you can sell you unwanted "quality" drops and purchase some cosmetic you want for in game gold (legendary/epic items cost ungodly amount of it tho)

********************************************************************************************************************
now - in TESO we dont really know details for loot bags at this point of time -BUT what we knew:

a)
loot bag cost= 400 crown
loot bags drop ~1consumable (btw this most likely means a one set of sonsumable, not really only 1 crown gem total)
maybe some extra rare cosmetic(pet/mount/etc)

b)all loot bags drop are NON-TRADEABLE

c)
Theres going to be extra curency, related to loot bag - Crown Gems, but you get them ONLY for getting drops that you allready own

d)theres going to be special store section with all prices in Crown gems ONLY

e)loot bags are going to drop exclusive cosmetics/mounts (posibly WildHunt mounts)

What we dont know:
1)How big is item selection in bag -it better not be 30-50 items or most purchasers NEVER see any Crown Gems,
2)What exactly is going to be included (for example loyalty items are excluded from bags)
3)Exchange rate for repeats to Crown gems - is that going to be at least close to fair?
You know why i *hate* curent system? lets say you get REALLY lucky and "dro mathra mount" droped for you.
But wait -you allrady own it, so now your only option is to capitalize it for crown gems.
Fair option for this would be: 100% of worth of same quality drop, so you could purchase somethng of same quality from let go. - so lets say "Clouded leopard mount"

What i am afraid of - that rates are not going to be "fair" -exactly like in TSW, or any other MMO that want to capitalize on playerbase

Hand_Bacon · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I really don't get what the big deal is. If somebody gets lucky with an RNG crown box, congratulations! If somebody doesn't get lucky, better luck next time. I don't see the angst involved at not obtaining some exclusive cosmetic item for choosing to buy an RNG box.

wonkydog wrote: »

Nope, managed to get that 100% wrong. She would like to buy things from the crown store but doesn't want to have to gamble to get what is wanted. It is not about buying items, it is about the process to get the items

I understand that for a few there may be a moral or addiction based reason not to gamble, but at that point can't the mind just process that item as unattainable? I don't know many people who visit casinos expecting the dealer to just give them 21 because they object to process of chance or gambling, no matter how much they want that jackpot.

Rub some dirt on it and lets go pray to the RNG deities for the next dungeon run.

optyk2477_ESO · August 2016

Bandit1215 wrote: »

So basically you are leaving the game because you don't want to buy things from the crown store, and you are upset because they are trying to make money.... even though the things they will be selling are merely cosmetic. I'm very confused.

No. He/She, among others, is upset at ZOS on how they are attempting to make new money. And they are comparing the addictive lottery style lockbox to their own struggle with addiction. It's not conspiracy that RNG boxes are very similar to gambling. So yeah... asking a sober ex-addict to gamble on in-game items? Not so great. Point is, games dont need to add gamble(aka RNG) monetization tactics to make money -its the lazy way out.

And a little FYI: Cosmetics, in games like these and even in 1p games, are the biggest sellers. Not sure how you're not aware of that, but hey, learn something new everyday I suppose. So lets not play it off as simply "merely cosmetics" eh?

What confuses me, is that in all my experience of gaming, every time a company introduces these horrid things to their games, there's always that small portion of players who play it off like its nothing. "Hey a company needs to make money! So duh, they are selling crap in a box no one wants! Don't buy it!" Yeah, see the logic fail?

Anyways, lockboxes always segregate the playerbase. ESO will keep the players willing to gamble and lose the ones who don't. A F2P model will eventually show up to maintain player retention, keep the paying vs free player ratio even, and entice new players into the fold.

noxayloxub17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Gambling-esk "loot boxes" are a terrible idea. If you pay for something with crowns you should just get it.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

optyk2477_ESO wrote: »

And a little FYI: Cosmetics, in games like these and even in 1p games, are the biggest sellers. Not sure how you're not aware of that, but hey, learn something new everyday I suppose. So lets not play it off as simply "merely cosmetics" eh?

Cosmetics being the biggest sellers doesn't change the fact that they are not part of gameplay (not even for roleplayers) and that you don't have to buy them to enjoy the game to the fullest. SO yes, it's "merely cosmetics".

optyk2477_ESO wrote: »

There's always that small portion of players who play it off like its nothing. "Hey a company needs to make money! So duh, they are selling crap in a box no one wants! Don't buy it!" Yeah, see the logic fail?

Because it IS nothing ! Or, more precisely, it is something that YOU are ENTIRELY FREE to ignore completely. Don't like it, dont buy it. Where does that logic fail ???
(That many people will buy it, and partly will be the same ones who originally complained ? well, that's human nature but I fail to see how that makes my logic to fail).

optyk2477_ESO wrote: »

ESO will keep the players willing to gamble and lose the ones who don't.

And people like me, who are not willing to gamble but will stay and simply not buy the boxes.

Guys, IT IS SIMPLE. Don't buy it, problem solved. Next.

You don't have to make it up as if it was cocaine. It's not. Some people may have issues with it and have to stay away, but that's life. For the overwhelming majority of people, a RNG box in a video game will NOT trigger any addictive behaviour of any sort.

And please stop hollering F2P/P2W all over the place. People have been doing this since the B2P announcement in early 2015 and so far, ZOS hasn't done anything unfair with the crown store, you have to give them that. Only in these forums do people cry "P2W" for everything and anything.

noxayloxub17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

A someone who has spent over $600 on this game - This is a predatory. It is taking advantage of an addiction purely for making money. It would be shameful if ZO went down this road since there is so many other ways to make money in the crown store. This practice does not make ANYONE happy and only serves to line ZO pockets by taking advantage of people who probably can't even afford it because they are addicts.

Is that where ZO wants to stand? You are so hungry for money that you don't care about the reputation of the game or the Elder Scrolls franchise?

Hand_Bacon · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

noxayloxub17_ESO wrote: »

This practice does not make ANYONE happy and only serves to line ZO pockets by taking advantage of people who probably can't even afford it because they are addicts.

I know what you're trying to say here, but do you really think this is ZoS aim? To take advantage of the disadvantaged in a video game through RNG lootboxes?
Honestly for those with an addiction problem in regards to gambling do you have a plan to cope or get support when things like this come up in life? Honest question because I've little experience with gambling addictions.

I don't believe ZoS is out there oogling all these poor souls and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff".

adriant1978 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

I know what you're trying to say here, but do you really think this is ZoS aim? To take advantage of the disadvantaged in a video game through RNG lootboxes?
Honestly for those with an addiction problem in regards to gambling do you have a plan to cope or get support when things like this come up in life? Honest question because I've little experience with gambling addictions.

I don't believe ZoS is out there oogling all these poor souls and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff".

No, I don't suppose they really are eyeing hardcore gambling addicts and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff", but you can be sure they are eyeing people with poor impulse control and thinking "we can use RNG to make these people spend more in the Crown Store", and isn't that still a scummy thing to do?

I do not buy into the idea that ZOS can or should be held responsible for people with addiction issues either, but that doesn't mean I think lockboxes are a good or moral way to treat their customer base. There seem to be a minority of people around here who are apparently so red in tooth and claw that they think it's fine to rip people off.

seebra · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

it's such shame if this game goes p2w.

JimT722 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

noxayloxub17_ESO wrote: »

This practice does not make ANYONE happy and only serves to line ZO pockets by taking advantage of people who probably can't even afford it because they are addicts.

I know what you're trying to say here, but do you really think this is ZoS aim? To take advantage of the disadvantaged in a video game through RNG lootboxes?
Honestly for those with an addiction problem in regards to gambling do you have a plan to cope or get support when things like this come up in life? Honest question because I've little experience with gambling addictions.

I don't believe ZoS is out there oogling all these poor souls and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff".

They could just sell the items directly. They are random for a reason. This system is created to take advantage of people, and it works. Why do you think more and more games are implementing this? Because it makes tons of money by selling you nothing.

elvenmad · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

noxayloxub17_ESO wrote: »

This practice does not make ANYONE happy and only serves to line ZO pockets by taking advantage of people who probably can't even afford it because they are addicts.

I know what you're trying to say here, but do you really think this is ZoS aim? To take advantage of the disadvantaged in a video game through RNG lootboxes?
Honestly for those with an addiction problem in regards to gambling do you have a plan to cope or get support when things like this come up in life? Honest question because I've little experience with gambling addictions.

I don't believe ZoS is out there oogling all these poor souls and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff".

[Removed Misinformation]

the basics are RNG loot boxes are predatory by design, so is any form of gambling, that is how it works, it is designed to target those with low self control first primarily, it then uses public awareness of 'jackpot' winners to 'tease' and get the attention of those with higher self control usually through advertisement or in games usually there is on screen splash alerts of winners its all done Psychologically and proven to be very very effective and RNG loot boxes in games are one of the most lucrative and most effective revenue generating systems there is, that is fact and very well proven.

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

adriant1978 wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

I know what you're trying to say here, but do you really think this is ZoS aim? To take advantage of the disadvantaged in a video game through RNG lootboxes?
Honestly for those with an addiction problem in regards to gambling do you have a plan to cope or get support when things like this come up in life? Honest question because I've little experience with gambling addictions.

I don't believe ZoS is out there oogling all these poor souls and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff".

No, I don't suppose they really are eyeing hardcore gambling addicts and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff", but you can be sure they are eyeing people with poor impulse control and thinking "we can use RNG to make these people spend more in the Crown Store", and isn't that still a scummy thing to do?

I do not buy into the idea that ZOS can or should be held responsible for people with addiction issues either, but that doesn't mean I think lockboxes are a good or moral way to treat their customer base. There seem to be a minority of people around here who are apparently so red in tooth and claw that they think it's fine to rip people off.

the constant reference to people with one particular behavioral problem (compulsive gambling) here worries me. there is another problem that some people experience that is part of the same compulsive spectrum and that is obsessing with video games.... people have died because of it.

but i don't see those playing the compulsive gambling card also calling for a limit to an individuals in game time to protect those on another part of that compulsive spectrum.

starkerealm · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bandit1215 wrote: »

So basically you are leaving the game because you don't want to buy things from the crown store, and you are upset because they are trying to make money.... even though the things they will be selling are merely cosmetic. I'm very confused.

No @Bandit1215, you've got that almost exactly backwards. @Cazzy wants to be able to buy things from the store. She doesn't want to have to gamble for new items she might want that are exclusive to the bag. She wants to be able to actually give ZOS money for the things she wants, not a random chance of getting something she might want, and a much higher chance of getting utter garbage no one wants.

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I hate this kind of stuff, and honestly think it belongs to f2p games.

You don't see what's coming ? This is always prep for F2P . This is how they start transforming . After that switch then they start locking down certain systems in game only available to subscribers . Like being able to use guild features . Getting end game loot in dungeons ect . I suspect this will go F2P , just download soon .

NOOOOOOOOOO

Hand_Bacon · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

adriant1978 wrote: »

No, I don't suppose they really are eyeing hardcore gambling addicts and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff", but you can be sure they are eyeing people with poor impulse control and thinking "we can use RNG to make these people spend more in the Crown Store", and isn't that still a scummy thing to do?

I can empathize with that. I've bought a couple things from the store out of impulse and consider myself somebody of moderate control. This is kind of how a lot of commerce is structured. Whether its point of sale additions or the placing of items in strategic locations. If this is a daily struggle for some people I hope they find a way to cope as its an important life skill. I have a friend who is very impulsive. His wife put all of his gaming accounts on a pre-paid credit card so that there would be one more layer of resistance to spending too much at any given time.

For me, I see the random boxes as a fun way to spend those extra crowns we get with eso plus.

Bandit1215 · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

Bandit1215 wrote: »

So basically you are leaving the game because you don't want to buy things from the crown store, and you are upset because they are trying to make money.... even though the things they will be selling are merely cosmetic. I'm very confused.

No @Bandit1215, you've got that almost exactly backwards. @Cazzy wants to be able to buy things from the store. She doesn't want to have to gamble for new items she might want that are exclusive to the bag. She wants to be able to actually give ZOS money for the things she wants, not a random chance of getting something she might want, and a much higher chance of getting utter garbage no one wants.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding then, IG I just didn't understand the way she worded it

. Your way was a lot better.

Elijah_Crow · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Morimizo wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Morimizo wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

I think it was @Elijah_Crow that wrote earlier about the ESO Crown Store being the most ethical of any MMO...well that's like saying someone is the "least violent" druglord. Praising with faint [snip], don't you think?

Or is it [snip] with faint Praises?

A convenience and cosmetic cash shop in a game that is buy to play is not equivalent to any sort of drug lord. These games need to show solid revenue for companies to continue to develop content and invest in growing a game.

I understand you want it for free. You probably feel you deserve it for free. Entitlement generation no doubt.

If ESO being profitable means the game is around for years to come, I'm all for it.

[edited quoted post]

Ok, @Elijah_Crow , Mr. Take-it-out-of-context and blow my comment out of proportion, I NEVER even intimated I wanted it for free. You are WAY off base, and completely ignorant as to my purchases on the Crown Store and how I have supported this game.

There is a difference between, what I asked for, a direct way to buy content from the Crown Store, knowing exactly what I am purchasing, and having an exclusive item (that would have normally been sold straight-up on the store) hiding inside random boxes where it is most likely the purchaser will spend MUCH more to get it, if ever.

As far as my reference to a druglord, it is a perfect metaphor, whether you agree or not. ZOS will not be able to sell these random boxes to rational people who are careful with their money, and do not have addictive personalities. Neither can druglords. I'm not referring to ZOS directly in everything they do or everything they are, I'm saying this tactic is greedy, irresponsible, and preys on irrational folks who have addictive personalities and can't control the spending of their money, and that makes the TACTIC similar to a druglord. Get it? Or is this where you succumb to other monotonous cliches like, you must live in your parent's basement to disagree with this feature? Or you must be 12 years old? Or other jumping-to-conclusions-with-no-proof pathetic attempts to belittle someone that doesn't care to share your opinion??

Good luck with that.

Also, you said this:

I really felt that the poster I quoted was expressing that "obviously" the company has made enough money and shouldn't pursue new avenues regardless of what they were.

I NEVER said that they should stop stocking the Crown store, or releasing DLCs, or offering ESO plus, not even close. What I obviously suggested was that ZOS did not need to resort to this scheme to make money. If that's not true, and they really need to resort to this to be profitable, not only do I find that hard to believe, but it's sad.

You can type in bold all you want. I don't find it intimidating at all, just an indication that you want more attention. Next time why not use all caps? Oh, you did that in places too.

I think your use of the drug lord reference is inappropriate, irresponsible, and unfounded.

I think the majority of lock box purchasers in games are rational adults who choose to purchase them because they have disposable income and don't mind spending it on a chance to procure a cosmetic item which will set them apart from others.

I think the fact that the gain is not guaranteed adds to the excitement when they get something special. If they wish to spend their earned income to enjoy this, I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't and neither should you.

In addition, every income source you listed is already in place and your response seems to confirm that you "think this is enough". Again, that's not a decision you are informed enough to make, nor have any right or responsibility to do so.

I don't need to resort to "other monotonous cliches like, you must live in your parent's basement to disagree with this feature? Or you must be 12 years old? Or other jumping-to-conclusions-with-no-proof pathetic attempts to belittle someone that doesn't care to share your opinion".

I'm pretty clear without having to do so.

starkerealm · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

If ZOS wants to add some "fun" gambling, then there must be one rule: Every possible drop from the RNG crate must be available for direct purchase.

This would allow people to try their luck at getting an item cheaply. But it would not leave RNG as the only way to get an item.

I do not like to gamble, I never gamble, and I would not be tempted to gamble. So these crates have absolutely zero effect on me personally. But they can and do affect people who don't have that kind of self-control. And by having items that are obtainable only through random crates--either items that are "discontinued" or items that are exclusive to the gamble boxes--they are enticing the compulsive players to gamble. And even though it doesn't affect me, it is a low tactic that elicits my disapproval.

So, ZOS, if you want to add gambling, do it right: Make everything that is in your current gamble box pool available for direct purchase. Rotate stuff in and out as you see fit, but there should never by anything in the gamble pool that cannot be direct-purchased. It's just a virtual store of bits--don't insult our intelligence by claiming "limited space". Make this change, and I will withdraw all objections. Don't, and I'll know just how far you are willing to exploit a certain segment of your customer base.

If the lockboxes are guaranteed to be happening, then I think this would be the best compromise. I don't mind if they re-use limited time items, because they can still come back later. But they should not have lockbox-exclusive items. Anything that can be won in a lockbox should have a direct purchase alternative.

starkerealm wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Disclaimer - This isn't a defense of ZOS adding lockboxes. This is a defense of the currently unfounded claim that ZOS said they never would.

It actually kinda is. I'm sorry, but there's no other point to that post. Additionally, there was a "no, never" quote, probably on ESO live, I just can't be bothered to hunt it down for you because, quite frankly, at this point? I've got better things to do with my life.

If the only thing we'd gotten saying, "no lockboxes" was a mealy mouthed, "no plans at this time," I would not have come back. The quote exists out there. If you don't believe me, or want to prove me wrong, you can go prove it's never been stated.

Not so. The point of the post is to defend ZOS against the people who are accusing them of breaking promises or lying. I've often jumped in on threads to defend ZOS' (and anyone else's) integrity while still being neutral (and sometimes in opposition) of their decisions and opinions. They've already fallen down on their moral integrity by introducing something which encourages gambling, but I have yet to see an accusation of outright lying or broken promises that is actually valid, so I am skeptical over what was actually said vs what has been inferred.

And I'm sure you know that asking me to prove non-existence of that quote is a logical fallacy

@Enodoc Obviously I have not read through all the posts (so you may have seen this), but there is a quote where it says "We don't have any plans to add locked RNG boxes. " Of course, it's not a promise, and of course now everyone can say "Well at that time, they had no plans for it". So sure it's not a solid no, but it still is uneasy. Link

Just for the record, @MissBizz the current defense people are making of that quote is "They said no locked RNG boxes, as in no locked boxes dropped in the world that you have to buy keys for. They never said no RNG boxes directly sold in the store".

Also, I woke up to a bunch of notifications that I couldn't see because the comments were already deleted. You guys better not be flaming with my @handle while I'm out :P

Yeah, I got that too. I think it had to do with one of Zenimax's (the holding company not ZOS) employees, and their linkedin account, but I'm not sure.

Also, you're correct. The quote we can't find was specifically that we wouldn't get lockboxes, not lucky bags. Which one (*cough* @Enodoc *cough*) could lawyer into saying, "well, they didn't actually promise that we'd never get any form of gamble bags."

Thing is... as an element of trust? Nope. This remains a serious body blow. The statement (and no, @Enodoc, I'm not talking about the one line from Gina on reddit) left the impression that lucky bags were out. If ZOS wants to go back on that, that's fine, that's their decision. But it's not a decision I'll support.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

adriant1978 wrote: »

There seem to be a minority of people around here who are apparently so red in tooth and claw that they think it's fine to rip people off.

I'm not saying it's fine, and I'm not in favor of those boxes.

BUT what I insist on is the fact that people are free to being ripped off or not.

Do they know they might not get what they want ? - YES, they know.
Do they know that the drop rates are not public, official or fixed, so that the result in not entirely in RNGesus hands, but also in ZOS hands ? - YES, they know.
Do they know they do HAVE TO get that thing to enjoy the game ? - YES, they know.

If people, with all this knowlegde, still buy those boxes - I say it's on them, it's their choice.

Don't push all the responsibility onto ZOS - the buyer has power and responsibility too : to buy or not to buy.

If you KNOW you being ripped off and still say yes, is it still a rip off ?

code65536 · August 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

For the overwhelming majority of people, a RNG box in a video game will NOT trigger any addictive behaviour of any sort.

That is true.

But then it begs the question, why would ZOS implement this system at all? Most people are rational and wouldn't gamble on it. So who are the people who do? A few rich thrill-seekers? And maybe those who do have problems of control?

In any case, there is a very simple solution to all this: Make everything in the random box drop pool also available for direct purchase. This means no exclusives and bringing back for direct purchase any discontinued items. (If it was a "limited time" item, bring it back for direct purchase for a "limited time". McDonald's brings back the McRib every year while keeping it a "limited item" offer.)

If every item available through the gamble boxes was available at full price, directly, without gambling, then it offers people who feel the compulsion to get an item a choice and an escape route. If there are items that can only be obtained via gambling, then there will be problems.

nimander99 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Gambling boxes... First real step towards a P2W game. Soon the base game will be 'free' then they will add a gold for Crown exchange and that'll be that.

Please, please do not add gambling boxes for cash to the Crown Store. I promise you all, I have seen this happen time and time again, we will slide down that slope...

Hand_Bacon · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If you KNOW you being ripped off and still say yes, is it still a rip off ?

True, its impossible to make oneself a victim....despite attempts to prove otherwise.

Lyrander · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

why?

i mean ...why? the mounts are expensive enough to make enough money out of them, not?

i dont even understand how that will work?

lets say:

ice wolf in box.
i want it.
i have every other mount there is (because i bought them all)
what will i get when i dont "win"?

crown store potions? -wtf

and even if they somehow make it worth the money - i would hate the idea.
i already missed 2 mounts that i wanted to get, because i wasnt home to play the game.