What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

MissBizz wrote: »

x5ofspadez wrote: »

I really dont mind as long as there is only items that have been previously available on the Crown Store, but never to have exclusive items in them.

Then again I probably wont buy them anyways. Unless there's a mount specific box.

@x5ofspadez Just so you are aware, they already said there will be super rare mounts exclusive to these RNG boxes.

^THIS is exactly the problem I have with this whole thing. It also makes me wonder what other 'exclusive' items they plan to put in there since there are numerous Crown Store items that have been on PTS but never released Live yet. Not only that, but how the whole 'Gems' process works when you receive an item you already have... your options of using those Gems are going to be limited to 'select' items that rotate over time. IMO this is just adding insult to injury.

dsalter

No, don't ever add these into the game.

AnthragonVangor wrote: »

Oh, I see a special mount I would like to buy, yes, doesn't make me stronger but, hey looks cool.

How much?

Oh a few bucks. Ok let's buy some "lottery tickets". First one...potions and, oh some style material...ok, well potions I could have done by myself (thanks MissBiss for mentioning that in your vid) and...oh material I have still a bunch of. Ok let's try the next one...ok same ...next one ...oh, hum, well again potions and...a femal evening dress for my male character...so I might start then a female character then *hardsmile*. Ok still no special mount and...oh...no more tickets. Maybe next time, oh, but it says "limited only this week" hum..shall I or shall I not buy a few more "lottery tickets". Well, normally, I love looting boxes...in free world because, well, they are "free" somehow but..oh I get it they are called loot boxes because "they" want to loot me: ok, it is like a joke, ha ha, hum..uhm yeah, but not funny at all?...

ouch right in the feels.

but yet this is how i see the boxes in every game as well.

dsalter

No, don't ever add these into the game.

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

they say cosmetic only now ...

but didnt they say there would be no rng boxes when tamriel unlimited hit ???

so given zenimax's lack of integraty

im out

sub as been pulled

initiating a charge back

time to move on and wait for star citizen

whats a charge back?

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Also interesting is how this thread has gone on 48 pages with 67% of the voters saying NO... and we have yet to hear from anyone from ZOS saying they are even taking what we're saying into consideration; 820 players voting with 554 saying NO... that's more players voting in any poll that I've ever seen on the forums. I think ZOS SERIOUSLY needs to take a look at this and reconsider this ship before it sails.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

dsalter wrote: »

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

they say cosmetic only now ...

but didnt they say there would be no rng boxes when tamriel unlimited hit ???

so given zenimax's lack of integraty

im out

sub as been pulled

initiating a charge back

time to move on and wait for star citizen

whats a charge back?

It's where you contact your credit card company, and reverse the charges. Usually because the product wasn't what was advertised. It's a difficulty argument to make in this case, but, that's between them, their card provider, and ZOS.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ADarklore wrote: »

Also interesting is how this thread has gone on 48 pages with 67% of the voters saying NO... and we have yet to hear from anyone from ZOS saying they are even taking what we're saying into consideration; 820 players voting with 554 saying NO... that's more players voting in any poll that I've ever seen on the forums. I think ZOS SERIOUSLY needs to take a look at this and reconsider this ship before it sails.

They're just going to ignore us, until we've left. Then we'll be getting teary emails from them in six months saying, "please, guys, no, please come back. We need players. Guys? We're really sorry, not sorry enough to remove the boxes, but really sorry. Please? Guys? We'll give you a unique thing if you log in? Just come back. We're so lonely."

I get those from Cryptic and Funcom every once in awhile.

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

starkerealm wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Also interesting is how this thread has gone on 48 pages with 67% of the voters saying NO... and we have yet to hear from anyone from ZOS saying they are even taking what we're saying into consideration; 820 players voting with 554 saying NO... that's more players voting in any poll that I've ever seen on the forums. I think ZOS SERIOUSLY needs to take a look at this and reconsider this ship before it sails.

They're just going to ignore us, until we've left. Then we'll be getting teary emails from them in six months saying, "please, guys, no, please come back. We need players. Guys? We're really sorry, not sorry enough to remove the boxes, but really sorry. Please? Guys? We'll give you a unique thing if you log in? Just come back. We're so lonely."

I get those from Cryptic and Funcom every once in awhile.

Perhaps they believe that ONE TAMRIEL is going to miraculously bring in MILLIONS of new players... which is why they keep rebooting themselves every year... Launch, Tamriel Unlimited, now One Tamriel... what's next year's reboot going to be called, "Tamriel Chapter 7"?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ADarklore wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Also interesting is how this thread has gone on 48 pages with 67% of the voters saying NO... and we have yet to hear from anyone from ZOS saying they are even taking what we're saying into consideration; 820 players voting with 554 saying NO... that's more players voting in any poll that I've ever seen on the forums. I think ZOS SERIOUSLY needs to take a look at this and reconsider this ship before it sails.

They're just going to ignore us, until we've left. Then we'll be getting teary emails from them in six months saying, "please, guys, no, please come back. We need players. Guys? We're really sorry, not sorry enough to remove the boxes, but really sorry. Please? Guys? We'll give you a unique thing if you log in? Just come back. We're so lonely."

I get those from Cryptic and Funcom every once in awhile.

Perhaps they believe that ONE TAMRIEL is going to miraculously bring in MILLIONS of new players... which is why they keep rebooting themselves every year... Launch, Tamriel Unlimited, now One Tamriel... what's next year's reboot going to be called, "Tamriel Chapter 7"?

Chapter 13, but, yeah.

EDIT: Wait, I meant, "Update 13," yeah... no, honest. I meant Chapter 13... I mean... ah *** it. Close enough.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Clearly it has to be "Tamriel: Wheel of Fortune"

dsalter

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Clearly it has to be "Tamriel: Wheel of Fortune"

nah clearly Tamriel: Hermeas Moras box (i cant spell i'm tired)

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

dsalter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Clearly it has to be "Tamriel: Wheel of Fortune"

nah clearly Tamriel: Hermeas Moras box (i cant spell i'm tired)

Oh wow, that is a quest I missed in Oblivion.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Clearly it has to be "Tamriel: Wheel of Fortune"

nah clearly Tamriel: Hermeas Moras box (i cant spell i'm tired)

Oh wow, that is a quest I missed in Oblivion.

The Dwemer Puzzle Box from Morrowind and Skyrim, I think.

Hand_Bacon

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.


When it comes to the second group at what point does a gambling addict not take part in any game where RNG is a large factor? Sure, they may be investing time instead of money, but its the game of chance that's the problem. If this is true then any game with any RNG mechanic is in fact preying on these people.

Moloch1514

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.


When it comes to the second group at what point does a gambling addict not take part in any game where RNG is a large factor? Sure, they may be investing time instead of money, but its the game of chance that's the problem. If this is true then any game with any RNG mechanic is in fact preying on these people.

I'm in the camp that would gladly pay 2000-4000 Crowns for a cool mount, but am now concerned those will be RNG box exclusive.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.


When it comes to the second group at what point does a gambling addict not take part in any game where RNG is a large factor? Sure, they may be investing time instead of money, but its the game of chance that's the problem. If this is true then any game with any RNG mechanic is in fact preying on these people.

Incorrect. While RNG is not an ideal system for loot, the completion of the content is considered sufficient entertainment. Gamblers aren't wasting money playing a game with an RNG loot system because they're still ostensibly having fun playing the content. The gambling boxes only provide the thrill of risk taking, which is completely out of line with what we've traditionally been spending money on with this game. We came to ESO to pay for good content, including good cosmetic items, not to gamble.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.


When it comes to the second group at what point does a gambling addict not take part in any game where RNG is a large factor? Sure, they may be investing time instead of money, but its the game of chance that's the problem. If this is true then any game with any RNG mechanic is in fact preying on these people.

I'm in the camp that would gladly pay 2000-4000 Crowns for a cool mount, but am now concerned those will be RNG box exclusive.

That's my camp. I'm against putting exclusive items in them. We have cookies and juice in the food tent.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.


When it comes to the second group at what point does a gambling addict not take part in any game where RNG is a large factor? Sure, they may be investing time instead of money, but its the game of chance that's the problem. If this is true then any game with any RNG mechanic is in fact preying on these people.

There's a difference between someone who compulsively logs in on all 12 characters every night for their crafting drops, and hands in writs for their boxes, and someone who will blow their budget on grab bags. It's entirely reasonable for someone who faces that kind of an impulse control disorder to leave before ZOS screws them over.

Dig into the lucky bag stories online, and you'll see just how *** up this stuff has gotten in the past.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

The_Undefined

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.

I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I DON'T want items to be exclusive in them. If they're exclusive in the lootboxes, there's no other option for players to get them and they'll be locked behind a gamble wall. I'm saying, a good compromise would be to rotate items out of the lootboxes onto the crown store.

That way, players that don't want to pay the expensive price on the crown store, could have a chance with the lower priced lootbox.

Also, 400 crowns is not at all a reasonable price. The chance is going to be so low, that price is ridiculous. The price for lootboxes should be 50-100 crowns. Yeah that's too cheap for the consumables, but it was ZOS's decision to put these ridiculous things in the game in the first place.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

The_Undefined wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.

I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I DON'T want items to be exclusive in them. If they're exclusive in the lootboxes, there's no other option for players to get them and they'll be locked behind a gamble wall. I'm saying, a good compromise would be to rotate items out of the lootboxes onto the crown store.

That way, players that don't want to play the expensive price on the crown store, could have a chance with the lower priced lootbox.

Also, 400 crowns is not at all a reasonable price. The chance is going to be so low, that price is ridiculous. The price for lootboxes should be 50-100 crowns. Yeah that's too cheap for the consumables, but it was ZOS's decision to put these ridiculous things in the game in the first place.

No sorry, I did understand what you meant. I agree that I do NOT want exclusive items in these boxes. It was me that poorly worded my post @The_Undefined

Actually, the exclusive items is the only issue I hold with these RNG boxes. If the items were available on the crown store (even limited time/rotated, and at a ridiculous price) I would be more okay with that. As I can make an informed purchase, and not just gamble my money away.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.

I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I DON'T want items to be exclusive in them. If they're exclusive in the lootboxes, there's no other option for players to get them and they'll be locked behind a gamble wall. I'm saying, a good compromise would be to rotate items out of the lootboxes onto the crown store.

That way, players that don't want to play the expensive price on the crown store, could have a chance with the lower priced lootbox.

Also, 400 crowns is not at all a reasonable price. The chance is going to be so low, that price is ridiculous. The price for lootboxes should be 50-100 crowns. Yeah that's too cheap for the consumables, but it was ZOS's decision to put these ridiculous things in the game in the first place.

No sorry, I did understand what you meant. I agree that I do NOT want exclusive items in these boxes. It was me that poorly worded my post @The_Undefined

Actually, the exclusive items is the only issue I hold with these RNG boxes. If the items were available on the crown store (even limited time/rotated, and at a ridiculous price) I would be more okay with that. As I can make an informed purchase, and not just gamble my money away.

Oddly enough, this is also where I'm at.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.

VerboseQuips

No, don't ever add these into the game.

TL;DR in the bottom

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

Well...

I have been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series since Morrowind. I have been playing TESO since closed beta, as my little, beloved Imgakin can tell you (well, could tell you if he knew how to speak). I have been an ESO Plus member since they changed their business model.
Furthermore, I have bought each and every possible collectible item ever made available on the Crown Store (yet nothing that could be obtained in-game by other means). Does it mean I have all in-game collectibles? No. I will come back to that, but let me first explain why I kept buying everything until now.

I want TESO to succeed. I am in love with the Elder Scrolls fictional universe. Each new piece of content released by Zenimax fleshes it out and expands it. New creatures, new pets and mounts added to the game will most probably encourage the devs of TES VI to put them into the next installment of the main series, leading to a more diverse bestiary. New dungeons, new zones, new crafting styles, even new fishing trophies, anything added to the game will provide Bethesda Softworks with more material to work with.
Heck, I even found the Frost Mare from Takubar legitimate, while many didn't - and even though it doesn't have the eerie, original design we grew accustomed to expect from TES creatures, it can be re-designed any future game which would feature it. Surely will it not be the first Daedra whose design gets vastly improved from game to game.
Yet creating all this new stuff costs time and money. So this is what I do when I buy these collectibles : I contribute to the growth of Elder Scrolls lore.

This dedication of mine does not, however, make me completely blind, and the direction taken by ESO is, in my opinion, worrying.

Here are some of the worrying trends that I noticed.

1. The Elder Scrolls may know about the Road Ahead, but they haven't told us about it.

I may be wrong, but I feel the mental picture I have about the future of the game is less and less clear. We saw a video showing the Imperial City, Orsinium, Abah's landing, Murkmire, Mephala's Realm, long before those arrived. There used to be "Road ahead" articles on the community website, which let us know what the devs intended to do - the last one was in January and announced Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and the barber's shop. In fact, the dungeon pack was only announced after Dark Brotherhood. And now what? The lack of announcement at E3 was unsettling. We know we'll have One Tamriel and Witches Festival, but we don't know about future new content yet. Housing has been announced, yet the whole Vvaardenfell thing for Q1 2017 has only been datamined, and to my best knowledge, wasn't officially announced yet. There have been no words anymore on spellcrafting for a very long time.
To sum it up, the Road Ahead is covered in mist and it is increasingly difficult to know what enhancements and additions I am funding with my Crowns.

2. The DLCs will soon be small enough to fit in a jar on Almalexia's mantle.

Imperial City was longed after. Orsinium was big, and awesome. Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood were smaller, but the new zones were utterly gorgeous and the music was a sheer delight, and they added two factions we were waiting for since the very beginning of it all. They introduced, however, random rewards for non repeatable quests instead of unique items, some of which had an in-game description. This little flaw leads me to think they were not as thoroughly 'finished'.
Then comes the dungeon pack. It made me feel that Murkmire and Mephala's Realm, which I hoped would be as big as Orsinium and Coldharbour, respectively, boiled down to a mere group dungeon, each. I might be ill-informed though, and both a full fledged Murkmire and the Spiral Skein could still be somewhere in the works. But I think I read an interview from a dev somewhere - I can't remember where, alas - saying that Zeni moved to a new strategy of releasing tidbits of content every few months, instead of big chunks. I am a bit worried, because I think there is much untapped potential in TESO, and I really thought something BIG was coming with the post Clockwork City Daedric war. I don't really see how some tidbits now and then can deliver something as enormous.
Well, I might be just ill-informed though. One Tamriel will finish a gameplay transition in levelling and scaling that started with the introduction of the Champion system, thus leaving more room for story- and lore-centric DLCs afterwards. Maybe they are giving us smaller updates 11 and 12 because what comes next will be of truly epic scale and they decided to save energy and time for it. If Vvaardenfell does indeed come next Q1, this could in fact very well prove this theory correct.
Nevertheless, I am worried that Shadow of the Hist would, instead, initiate a trend of lower ambitions for DLCs/Major Updates.

3. M'aiq used to ask many questions like you, but questions prove ignorance, yes? So M'aiq stopped asking. M'aiq isn't ignorant anymore.

The Loremaster's archive used to provide an opportunity to interact with the Devs in a roleplaying way and fleshed out the lore of the Elder Scrolls universe. There was a two-week pause between two episodes, so as to let people think to the questions they'd like to ask and write them. All went well until Orsinium, when the Archive ceased for a while. It came back for Thieves' Guild, but less than one week was left for us to write questions, which was very short. There was no Loremaster's Archive at all for Dark Brotherhood - yet many questions could have been asked. Then it came back for the Dungeon pack, but this time, no question was allowed at all.
The disappearance and/or reduction of such community programs makes me think that Zenimax is severing its ties with the community, which is definitely not a good idea.

4. The Rogue Bear of Ill Omen

At the beginning, I was fine with the Crown Store. I didn't really like the time exclusives, but I did like the mounts, pets and costumes that were sold. Tailored in Tamriel was really nice, as was riding a guar or a senche. The Sar-m'Athra was excruciatingly expensive, but let's face it, it is beautiful.
The first real disappointment was the Breton Hero costume. My main is a breton mage, and I was waiting for this costume impatiently. I bought it and it looked ok as long as you didn't move a toenail. But start walking and you discover with horror that someone glued your cloak on your legs. I hope it gets fixed some day.
Then comes this panda. The first thing I thought when I saw it was "Is that a joke?". Then I decided to read before judging, and discovered it came from... the Jerall Mountains, somewhere between Bruma and Falkreath.
Then why haven't we seen any in TES IV, nor in TES V, nor in TESO where we can visit Bruma? Oh, and also, why does a typical Orc mount come from a territory that never fell, to my current knowledge, under Orsimer rule. Some people felt the Frost Mare didn't belong to the Elder Scrolls world, but I considered it fine: after all we never went to Takubar. But we went to the Jeralls. Three times. Without seeing the very-elusive-yet-very-popular Pandaren Masked Bear. For the first time, I feel a Crown Store item does not belong at all in the Elder Scrolls lore. This feels like a bad, immersion-breaking joke, and looks like Zenimax finally decided the lore was not as important as easy reskin-value - which is not really respectful of the fanbase, to say the least.
The fact it appears such a short time after the Glued Rogue makes me think that DLC size is not the only thing which is dropping: Crown Store items quality is plumetting too.

5. How Sai and Grellan became worshipped once again.

Then come those lottery boxes...

You know, my collections aren't complete, and I feel fine with it. For example, I don't have the pets that one could get by buying real-world ESO-related iems like those plushies. I don't have room for them at my place, so I didn't buy them. I am more a solo PvE player, and I rarely venture into PvP zones, so I can forget about the Stonefire Scamp and the Emperor Regalia. I don't even have the skills needed for them. I can't go to conventions, so I forgot about the Bristlegut Piglet as well.
The only two I miss are the Whiterun Wolfhound and the Black Cat. Regional exclusives are not cool, by the way. And when the dog was handed to the Steam people, I felt punished for being an early adopter, which is not really cool, either.
This being said, as I wrote earlier, I bought all the Crown Store collectibles. In this sense, my collection feels complete. And I can pride myself for having contributed to the funding of ESO.

Now if you tell me I can finally have that wolfhound I didn't have because I was an early-adopter, but the only way for this is to throw my real-world money in an bottomless well in hope that some day the dog would come up, yet most of the time I will get something I already have, since I bought everything so far... Or if you tell me that for my collection to remain complete, I have to buy a whole herd of bristlebacks in a poke just to have the lottery-exclusives, then, no, thanks. I have slain enough in-game wolves to expect no favor from Sai.

So my collection will start being incomplete. An due to both the inevitability of this incompleteness and the feeling of being spat in the face by the ones I contributed funding, I will certainly not spend as much. Why bothering to buy everything when you actually can't have everything?
This a blatant lack of respect to the collectors among us; this is also an infinite money sink I don't want to throw anything in. I am quite sure Zenithar wouldn't approve such practices, Zenimax.
When I buy something, I like to know what I buy, and I surely do not buy anything that has a very high probability of turning to be something I already have or consumables I don't care about.

The day you put Crown collectibles behind a RNG wall is the day I stop collecting them. I might keep buying some Tailored in Tamriel costumes (male Breton costumes, for example) every now and then, but most probably, I would stop buying anything.



TL;DR (also known as: Conclusion):

I have been more than happy, so far, to spend my money on Crown Store items, as I had the feeling it helped Zenimax flesh out the Elder Scrolls universe, expand the lore and make the game better and more fun.
However, I have the feeling Zenimax is severing its ties with the fanbase by communicating less than they used with the players. As a consequence, it is more and more difficult to know in what direction they are bringing Tamriel. While the picture of the future is blurry, it is not reassuring, as bad surprises and general trends seem to point at lower ambitions for DLCs and lower quality for Crown collectibles.
In this context, Lottery boxes would add a very undesirable and unnecessary layer of uncertainty: not only don't we know anymore what we are funding, but actually we don't know anymore what we are buying. This is unrespectful towards the dedicated fanbase.

As sad as it would make me as a long-time fan of the franchise who believes there is still much untapped potential for TESO, I will not follow you financially in this downwards slope.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MissBizz wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.

In the States, the loophole is that you get a product of roughly equal value regardless of what you actually pull from the box. Which, is utter garbage, because it's easy to understand that there's a significant difference between a fist full of consumables, and the grand prize items. But, legally, this is untested, so far as I know. Also, not being able to cash out helps, but it isn't enough to prove you're not gambling.

Swapping currencies doesn't provide immunity, though. Otherwise chips would exempt casinos from gambling regulation.

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Please, ZoS. I don't want to leave ESO but you're forcing me into a corner with this

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

Quite easy, the state has to act on any hint, which points to a possible violation of the law and might be a crime - it might be a case of §138/1 or §138/2, what would be a crime - so a hint about that and the officials have to investigate - this costs me nothing at all. I am just a lawful citizen pointing out a possible criminal - and they have to find out, if that is the case then. But due to that gambling might be involved and a lot of people might get financially harmed by it, a judge might even issue an "einstweilige Verfügung" to shut down the server in germany temporarily to avoid possible harm, until the investigation comes to a result - if a judge will do this or not depends a lot on the judge and how he is thinking about the possible harm done though. Each judge is independent and it cannot be said, how he will decide.

I do not have to do any further - it is not in my hands then anymore and the officials will come to their conclusions. If they think, it is enough to go to court, the state will bring the case forward. If they think, there is not enough evidence or that there is no real harm, they will not pursue it further - this is up to them to decide that.

The_Undefined

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.

I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I DON'T want items to be exclusive in them. If they're exclusive in the lootboxes, there's no other option for players to get them and they'll be locked behind a gamble wall. I'm saying, a good compromise would be to rotate items out of the lootboxes onto the crown store.

That way, players that don't want to play the expensive price on the crown store, could have a chance with the lower priced lootbox.

Also, 400 crowns is not at all a reasonable price. The chance is going to be so low, that price is ridiculous. The price for lootboxes should be 50-100 crowns. Yeah that's too cheap for the consumables, but it was ZOS's decision to put these ridiculous things in the game in the first place.

No sorry, I did understand what you meant. I agree that I do NOT want exclusive items in these boxes. It was me that poorly worded my post @The_Undefined

Actually, the exclusive items is the only issue I hold with these RNG boxes. If the items were available on the crown store (even limited time/rotated, and at a ridiculous price) I would be more okay with that. As I can make an informed purchase, and not just gamble my money away.

Ah I see! Yes, I feel the same way. I really, truly, in all honesty do not understand how anyone can support this practice. NOTHING positive comes out of this for anyone except CEOs. Any argument that states, "More money to the game = better game" seriously needs to look at F2P Korean games that have similar cash grab tactics. I'm sorry, but for as pretty as those games are, they have garbage stories, terrible updates, absolutely no substance in the gameplay. I mean in all purposes they're just playable softcore ***. I shouldn't say ALL, b/c I suppose Lineage was a great series.

My main point is, stop defending this company. Let the PR handle it. Question those you give money to. Ask where it's going. Do not simply regurgitate other arguments b/c they make sense. Look at all of the games of the past. There have been quality games that have made it without a cash shop, and in the advent of adding a cash shop the game didn't suddenly become better.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

As sad as it would make me as a long-time fan of the franchise, I will not follow you financially in this downwards slope.

I'll be honest: Between this, and the Fallout 4's Season Pass... I'm actually getting a little dubious of Bethesda's commitment to quality as a publisher. DOOM was solid... but, that's about the only nice thing I can say about the publisher this year.

Moloch1514

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MissBizz wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.

That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.