What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

darkstar2084

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

No! becuase i don't wont to see i bought X amount of boxes and didn't get what i want flooding the forums

Garldeen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

There seem to be a minority of people around here who are apparently so red in tooth and claw that they think it's fine to rip people off.

I'm not saying it's fine, and I'm not in favor of those boxes.

BUT what I insist on is the fact that people are free to being ripped off or not.

Do they know they might not get what they want ? - YES, they know.
Do they know that the drop rates are not public, official or fixed, so that the result in not entirely in RNGesus hands, but also in ZOS hands ? - YES, they know.
Do they know they do HAVE TO get that thing to enjoy the game ? - YES, they know.

If people, with all this knowlegde, still buy those boxes - I say it's on them, it's their choice.

Don't push all the responsibility onto ZOS - the buyer has power and responsibility too : to buy or not to buy.

If you KNOW you being ripped off and still say yes, is it still a rip off ?

That's not how it works.
That's as if suggesting it's not taking advantage of a situation because everyone knows the odds and has an option to choose.

The whole point of this discussions is that choice is being removed. So in essence you're saying that people should know to choose not to buy anything if it's in a random box ....OK but given there's literally no other way to obtain these items, what other suggestion can you offer


Our suggestion is to not use a chance box at all but you're saying its O K to use one
That's the disagreement many of us are having with that point of view you hold.

This is the key issue for me. If i play the UK national lottery (I don't as I don't see the fun in gambling, but each to their own) I know the following:

The Jackpot - 6 Numbers (Typical prize: £2 million)
6 numbers are drawn at random from the set of integers between 1 and 59, which means there are 59!/(6!*(59-6)!) combinations of numbers - this means that the jackpot chance is 1 in 45,057,474 or approximately 1 in 45 million.


5 Numbers + Bonus Number (Typical prize: £50,000)
You are still matching 6 numbers from the 1 to 59 set as above, but you can now do it in 6 different ways (by dropping each of the main numbers in turn), therefore the chance is 1 in 45,057,474/6, which works out as 1 in 7,509,579.


5 Numbers (Typical prize: £1,000)
This is 52 times more likely than getting 5 numbers + the bonus number - the chance is 1 in 7,509,579/52, which evaluates to 1 in 144,415.


4 Numbers (Typical prize: £100)
Firstly, let's take the case of the first 4 of your numbers matching and the last 2 not matching.
In this single case (where each set of chances relies on the previous event occurring):

Chance that your 1st number matches a winning lottery number is 1 in 59/6.
Chance that your 2nd number matches a winning lottery number is 1 in 58/5.
Chance that your 3rd number matches a winning lottery number is 1 in 57/4.
Chance that your 4th number matches a winning lottery number is 1 in 56/3.
Chance that your 5th number doesn't match a winning number is 1 in 55/(55-2) [because there are still 2 unmatched winning numbers].
Chance that your 6th number doesn't match a winning number is 1 in 54/(54-2) [yes, still 2 unmatched winning numbers].

Now you need to accumulate all those chances by multiplying them together:
1 in (59/6)*(58/5)*(57/4)*(56/3)*(55/53)*(54/52) which is 1 in 32,697.73.
Now this is the chance for that single case occurring, but there are 15 combinations of matching 4 from 6, so you divide the answer by 15 to get 1 in 32697.73/15 or 1 in 2179.85.


3 Numbers (Constant prize: £10)
Follow exactly the same scheme as the 4 match above to get these figures:
1 in (59/6)*(58/5)*(57/4)*(56/53)*(55/52)*(54/51) (which is 1 in 1923.40) for a single case.
There are 20 combinations of 3 from 6, so the chance of a 3 match is 1 in 1923.40/20 or 1 in 96.2.

2 Numbers (Constant prize: Lucky Dip in the next draw - worth £2)
Follow exactly the same scheme as the 3 match above to get these figures:
1 in (59/6)*(58/5)*(57/53)*(56/52)*(55/51)*(54/50) (which is 1 in 153.87) for a single case.
There are 15 combinations of 2 from 6, so the chance of a 2 match is 1 in 153.87/15 or 1 in 10.3.

source for the above content and maths: http://playlotto.org.uk/

here i know what my chance would be of waking up tomorrow and not having to go to work ever again.

With random loot boxes, we have no idea on the odds of getting that mount we want. I might be 1/10, it might be 1/1b - there will be far far more lower prizes than higher. The key is we just don't know. The National Lottery is gambling but with an understanding at the start of how likely you are to win. If you consider the odds too long then you don't play. If we don't know if our chance of getting a mount is 1/100 or 1/100,000,000 then how can we decide if we consider those odds fair.

That is my issue with these things

the prize for 3 numbers on the uk national lottery is £25....

Ah yes so it it, didn't notice that as I don't play. However, the example was more based on knowing exactly how likely you are to win a prize so can make an educated decision based on those odds

karldavy149b16_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

they say cosmetic only now ...

but didnt they say there would be no rng boxes when tamriel unlimited hit ???

so given zenimax's lack of integraty

im out

sub as been pulled

initiating a charge back

time to move on and wait for star citizen

oxxalejandroxxo

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

This is utterly unacceptable and you guys should know better.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

The_Undefined wrote: »

In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.

I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I've been active in these forums for 2 years now, I started getting involved in the community a few months after I started playing when I realized that here was a game I knew I was going to stick with for a very long time. I continue to assert in other social media spheres that this is the best MMO in the genre. That the cash shop is fair and non invasive, that the sub is fair (more than fair) and worth the $15/month.

There has been tons of drama in these forums, every time some new change is around the corner Special Snowflakes come out the woodwork to flame and claim the sky is falling and I've always tried to temper those threads and emotions with a bit of logic and comparison to other MMO's. It's always seemed like I've gone against the grain.

When B2P transition came out people freaked, when IC dropped, more people lost their minds. When Crafting Bags were added people cried about it. Zenimax is a business, its purpose is to make money and I would never begrudge a business a fair trade, money for entertainment. Then there was the great Barber Shop Conflagration which in essence was a couple dollars. But the Costume Dye system *gasp* pay money for dyes! Terrible idea but basically became a sub benefit so no big deal. A sub is a sub, you should sub to a MMO if you like that MMO, a fair trade is a two way street. It isn't just gimme gimme free stuffs! That's utopian non-sense.

The reason I explain the above is to say this. All those dramatic events I described I basically defended Zenimax because as a small business owner I understand the concept of providing a service at a fair exchange.

If I wanted to gamble I would go to a casino. Cash for random boxes is a slot machine mechanic, gambling is a very unhealthy addiction. My ex's mother was a gambling addict, she spent over 2 million (yes million) dollars leveraging her families home, cars and business to keep pulling that slot lever.

Introducing these cash for boxes of random items encourages the pleasure center of the brain that activates when you win AND lose. It encourages unhealthy behaviors and self destructive tendencies. So, for the sake of this game, and the Elder Scrolls IP, I pray that Zenimax reconsiders this. Even if it is implemented with just older mounts and things we have already seen and had the chance at purchasing it will eventually not sell which will bring about placing special items only attainable via the gambling box. In essence forcing collector's like me to either; invest vast sums of money in an addictive manner or..........................

To sum up, of all the drama over the last couple years this is finally something that I see as a deal breaker. If this is implemented it would be a mistake of epic proportions. This game also has a direct effect on the rest of the Scrolls IP. It is a gem, a precious world with fans that have invested decades into the world that is Tamriel. The marketing team and the developers have this gem in their hands and they can and will destroy it with one word... Greed.

I've said my peace on this issue now. Lets see what happens.

Iselin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I bet all of the pro and con arguments in this thread were had weeks or months ago internally at the decision making levels of ZOS and I bet there are dissenters within the company just as much as there are in the community.

I also bet the storm generated here and in other places where ESO is discussed are not surprising anyone internally either.

I also bet their bean counters know that this will make them more money even when considering those who see it as a reason to quit. I can almost hear them saying: "Reputation? That doesn't make as much money."

It's a sign of the times that something that would have been unthinkable for self-respecting games publishers to do 10 years ago, something they themselves would have scoffed at as a thing that only the lowest of the low "fly by night" pseudo game companies do, has insinuated itself into gaming as such an irresistible cash cow that even games like ESO are adopting it.

That's the sad part. FB and app store gaming amorality has won the day. The gamer as "rube" age is full-on.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Dromede wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion a vast majority of ESO players are morons.

There is exactly zero stuff that these boxes will contain that will have any actual effect on you in game...and yet...You're all talking about how this is the death of the game.

*** I played GW2 and they had these boxes....I had a crap ton of them just sitting in the bank and I maybe opened 1 the entire time I played from a key i randomly got.

The sheer absurdity of the posters in this thread is mind boggling...

Children are just one side of the coin - those can get addicted to gambling when exposed at a young age - the other side of the coin are people which are already gambling addicted or have a low level of self-control when it comes to things they want, even if they cannot afford those and it would bring them into an existence crisis or their family.

Ok Helen Lovejoy; if you can't handle box sales in a video game you can't handle being on the internet in the first place. In fact its safe to say you can't handle being anywhere at any given time in the United States since you'll be tempted by "chance"

I did not expect you to understand the deeper meaning of what an addiction means for the person being addicted. That they do not have control over their behavior anymore, that it is an impulse control disorder.

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

I understand the deeper meaning of it; I'm laughing at how absurd you're being by trying to say we shouldn't have any lock boxes because someone with ICD might play this game. Completely ignoring the fact that a person with ICD would have to deal with a myriad of other things in life before he even got to the point of playing this game. Basically you're using the "Think of the Children" argument for limiting something. Can't have Cokes, To much sugar in them, Think of the Children.....Someone might become addicted to ***, Lets ban it for everyone, Think of the Children....

hell....ESO is pretty violent; It might cause some kid to go on a murdering spree....Lets remove all fighting from the game cause Think of the Children.

What kind of an argument is this - basically saying - well, ICD people have problems anyway, so we can just put up another trap they can fall into without to even care, because they could as well fall into any other trap. And when we are on it, we make this trap really expensive for them and prey on their weakness and abuse them - they do not deserve better.

That is basically your point of view.

That's not fair at all. You're taking an extremely thin slice of population, and use them as an example to show how boxes will ruin their lives. Even though in reality they do have much more pressing problems than gambling-like mechanic in the game that they play (both the game, and the box part) completely voluntarily.

This game is rated M for mature 17+. At least that's the way it was at launch. Argument 'think of the children' is invalid by the nature of the game.

You can't shield children or anyone else from all world's reality And i completely agree that 'Rng loot boxes' are not an ethical business practice, moreover, i have no plans to participate in buying anything random.

I used to play a p2w game with a box event held once every couple months. For a week, the game would have a pretty huge influx of money, and people would get pretty toxic. Exclusive combat pets, purple fishing rods and other crafting means would be introduced, while most people would get health pots and other meaningless stuft.

Guilds would fight each other (dueling within the same faction was enabled) and break each other's purple exclusive loot just to prove a point that they are the strongest. If a single player gets it, he gets attacked all the time to get that fishing rod or whatever broken.

It was pretty toxic, but it brought money to the company. The game is still alive even though it's been over 7 years since i logged in the last time..

So on top of all mixed feelings, i'm more ok with the boxes than not, but i will not tolerate any armor or weapon loot from them. I can live with cosmetic unique stuff for now, but ZOS is already pushing a little too far.

And yes, it's just tasteless. One would expect more class and lore reasoning from an ES game.

Nah, you do not understand what really bothers me with this - it is that they INTENTIONALLY design it so, that it is a trap for people with either a gambling addiction or an impulse control disorder - these boxes do not effect normal people a lot, because most do not gamble anyway and will avoid these boxes and the rest of them will not go that far to buy more than a few boxes for the fun of it - but a person with an ICD or gambling addiction does not really have a choice other than to leave the game or fall into this trap - their condition will make them fall for it, if they don't leave - and this is basically either alienating these customers or preying on them - a video game is a good place to prey on people, because a lot might already have a problem to control their gaming behavior, what can as well be a form of ICD - so a game like this has lots of victims to this rng box scheme - and this is what makes it so immoral and unethical from ZOS to implement it this way.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

noxayloxub17_ESO wrote: »

This practice does not make ANYONE happy and only serves to line ZO pockets by taking advantage of people who probably can't even afford it because they are addicts.

I know what you're trying to say here, but do you really think this is ZoS aim? To take advantage of the disadvantaged in a video game through RNG lootboxes?
Honestly for those with an addiction problem in regards to gambling do you have a plan to cope or get support when things like this come up in life? Honest question because I've little experience with gambling addictions.

I don't believe ZoS is out there oogling all these poor souls and thinking "if only we could provide the cliff".

Well, like I said in another post, one can assume that the majority of people do not gamble at all - they would not make use of these boxes or if, then just a few boxes to test it and that's it. There is no money to be made with normal people - the only ones these boxes will affect are those, who are not smart enough to see through the scheme behind these boxes, and gambling addicts and people with an impulse control disorder - and there are plenty of those in a game like this, given that hardcore gaming with about 150+ hours per month could be a form of ICD as well - it is in discussion to add it to the catalog of diseases, it is just not clear yet, if it is an own disorder or ICD or something else - but it is clearly not healthy. And a game like this has a huge amount of these people, which are prone to fall into this trap and make excessive use of these boxes.

IF ZOS would not have thought about this or not made it intentionally like this, then they would be pretty naive people - I do not think, that they are that naive to not know this, I believe, that they designed it intentionally to prey on these kind of people.

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion a vast majority of ESO players are morons.

There is exactly zero stuff that these boxes will contain that will have any actual effect on you in game...and yet...You're all talking about how this is the death of the game.

*** I played GW2 and they had these boxes....I had a crap ton of them just sitting in the bank and I maybe opened 1 the entire time I played from a key i randomly got.

The sheer absurdity of the posters in this thread is mind boggling...

Children are just one side of the coin - those can get addicted to gambling when exposed at a young age - the other side of the coin are people which are already gambling addicted or have a low level of self-control when it comes to things they want, even if they cannot afford those and it would bring them into an existence crisis or their family.

Ok Helen Lovejoy; if you can't handle box sales in a video game you can't handle being on the internet in the first place. In fact its safe to say you can't handle being anywhere at any given time in the United States since you'll be tempted by "chance"

I did not expect you to understand the deeper meaning of what an addiction means for the person being addicted. That they do not have control over their behavior anymore, that it is an impulse control disorder.

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

I understand the deeper meaning of it; I'm laughing at how absurd you're being by trying to say we shouldn't have any lock boxes because someone with ICD might play this game. Completely ignoring the fact that a person with ICD would have to deal with a myriad of other things in life before he even got to the point of playing this game. Basically you're using the "Think of the Children" argument for limiting something. Can't have Cokes, To much sugar in them, Think of the Children.....Someone might become addicted to ***, Lets ban it for everyone, Think of the Children....

hell....ESO is pretty violent; It might cause some kid to go on a murdering spree....Lets remove all fighting from the game cause Think of the Children.

What kind of an argument is this - basically saying - well, ICD people have problems anyway, so we can just put up another trap they can fall into without to even care, because they could as well fall into any other trap. And when we are on it, we make this trap really expensive for them and prey on their weakness and abuse them - they do not deserve better.

That is basically your point of view.

That's not fair at all. You're taking an extremely thin slice of population, and use them as an example to show how boxes will ruin their lives. Even though in reality they do have much more pressing problems than gambling-like mechanic in the game that they play (both the game, and the box part) completely voluntarily.

This game is rated M for mature 17+. At least that's the way it was at launch. Argument 'think of the children' is invalid by the nature of the game.

You can't shield children or anyone else from all world's reality And i completely agree that 'Rng loot boxes' are not an ethical business practice, moreover, i have no plans to participate in buying anything random.

I used to play a p2w game with a box event held once every couple months. For a week, the game would have a pretty huge influx of money, and people would get pretty toxic. Exclusive combat pets, purple fishing rods and other crafting means would be introduced, while most people would get health pots and other meaningless stuft.

Guilds would fight each other (dueling within the same faction was enabled) and break each other's purple exclusive loot just to prove a point that they are the strongest. If a single player gets it, he gets attacked all the time to get that fishing rod or whatever broken.

It was pretty toxic, but it brought money to the company. The game is still alive even though it's been over 7 years since i logged in the last time..

So on top of all mixed feelings, i'm more ok with the boxes than not, but i will not tolerate any armor or weapon loot from them. I can live with cosmetic unique stuff for now, but ZOS is already pushing a little too far.

And yes, it's just tasteless. One would expect more class and lore reasoning from an ES game.

Nah, you do not understand what really bothers me with this - it is that they INTENTIONALLY design it so, that it is a trap for people with either a gambling addiction or an impulse control disorder - these boxes do not effect normal people a lot, because most do not gamble anyway and will avoid these boxes and the rest of them will not go that far to buy more than a few boxes for the fun of it - but a person with an ICD or gambling addiction does not really have a choice other than to leave the game or fall into this trap - their condition will make them fall for it, if they don't leave - and this is basically either alienating these customers or preying on them - a video game is a good place to prey on people, because a lot might already have a problem to control their gaming behavior, what can as well be a form of ICD - so a game like this has lots of victims to this rng box scheme - and this is what makes it so immoral and unethical from ZOS to implement it this way.

I think it is not only a gross exaggeration, but also completely irresponsible of you to formally ACCUSE ZoS of INTENTIONALLY preying on people with specific disabilities. Personally I had a lot of respect for you and your opinions until you got on your soapbox for this issue. You don't have to agree with them, and you can post your discord about it, but you have gone FAR beyond voicing your feelings - and I have lost all respect for you at this point.

If I were Zenimax, I would sue you for liable.

OmniDevil

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Neverwinter: Elder Scrolls Edition

I guess we can expect giant Orange letters whenever someone gets something good, right?

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

OmniDevil wrote: »

Neverwinter: Elder Scrolls Edition

I guess we can expect giant Orange letters whenever someone gets something good, right?

Let's hope not.

GorraShatan

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Gambling addiction is a real problem, and gamers who suffer from it don't need Zenimax trying to suck them dry. Shame.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Gambling boxes... First real step towards a P2W game. Soon the base game will be 'free' then they will add a gold for Crown exchange and that'll be that.

Please, please do not add gambling boxes for cash to the Crown Store. I promise you all, I have seen this happen time and time again, we will slide down that slope...

I don't think they will go full on free to play, I think they will keep the buy to play system for a long time. They are a us based company with a populer ip so yeah they would want the money from those that would buy the game. even if they did go free to play they most likely will have it limited for like a testing purpose then you would still have to buy the game, before progressing. They do sometimes have free to play weekends they have done this a couple of times I think. But yeah I don't think the current model is going to change.

Those boxes do not make them a lot of money - they are dirt cheap in sales and retailers want the biggest part of the cake because they do the difficult part of the business - getting this stuff actually sold - so ZOS is getting pretty much nothing from it, if it is not bought directly from their own website.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

I was thinking that if they let us turn any unwanted dropped costumes/pets/mounts for Crown Gems instead of only repeats, the system could be a little more player-friendly. Especially for newer players that don't have a lot of stuff unlocked already.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

OmniDevil wrote: »

Neverwinter: Elder Scrolls Edition

I guess we can expect giant Orange letters whenever someone gets something good, right?

yeah.

Oh and dont forget Tera, Archeage, Bade & Soul, Wildstar, plus numerous others that ALL started out with clearly announced 'cosmetic' only Boxes and ALL eventually ended up with exclusive game changing contents.

Played all those some from alpha but all from beta and into live and eventually left them all for the same reason...... P2W boxes that we were initially told would never be that.

I am sure there are many on these very forums all with this very same Deja-Vu feeling

noxayloxub17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Nah, you do not understand what really bothers me with this - it is that they INTENTIONALLY design it so, that it is a trap for people with either a gambling addiction or an impulse control disorder - these boxes do not effect normal people a lot, because most do not gamble anyway and will avoid these boxes and the rest of them will not go that far to buy more than a few boxes for the fun of it - but a person with an ICD or gambling addiction does not really have a choice other than to leave the game or fall into this trap - their condition will make them fall for it, if they don't leave - and this is basically either alienating these customers or preying on them - a video game is a good place to prey on people, because a lot might already have a problem to control their gaming behavior, what can as well be a form of ICD - so a game like this has lots of victims to this rng box scheme - and this is what makes it so immoral and unethical from ZOS to implement it this way.

THIS is exactly why I have a problem with this. The reason these loot boxes are profitable is because they SPECIFICALLY prey on people who are susceptible to this type of addiction. It is a shameful practice designed to take advantage of people. Just make all items available for sale in the crown store, don't use addiction and extortion to make money.

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

elvenmad wrote: »

OmniDevil wrote: »

Neverwinter: Elder Scrolls Edition

I guess we can expect giant Orange letters whenever someone gets something good, right?

yeah.

Oh and dont forget Tera, Archeage, Bade & Soul, Wildstar, plus numerous others that ALL started out with clearly announced 'cosmetic' only Boxes and ALL eventually ended up with exclusive game changing contents.

Played all those some from alpha but all from beta and into live and eventually left them all for the same reason...... P2W boxes that we were initially told would never be that.

I am sure there are many on these very forums all with this very same Deja-Vu feeling

Which kind of seems like the normal life - cycle for these games anymore. Personally I don't have a problem with them doing this as I see it as a normal progression. It isn't the first time, and it certainly won't be the last.

VileDeeds77

No, don't ever add these into the game.

After so much positivity from this game since I started playing, the thought of adding loot boxes into the game makes me sick. I agree with an earlier poster, if the prices of stuff in the crown store wasn't so overly expensive you would get more crown store sales and thus would not need to even think of adding RNG boxes. RNG boxes have never been a good thing to the long term health of an MMO, it is usually the first nail in the coffin of an MMO.

Please don't travel this path ZOS!!!

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JKorr wrote: »

Lyrander wrote: »

why?

i mean ...why? the mounts are expensive enough to make enough money out of them, not?

i dont even understand how that will work?

lets say:

ice wolf in box.
i want it.
i have every other mount there is (because i bought them all)
what will i get when i dont "win"?

crown store potions? -wtf

and even if they somehow make it worth the money - i would hate the idea.
i already missed 2 mounts that i wanted to get, because i wasnt home to play the game.

If you get a duplicate, you can trade it for "Gems", a new currency needed because of the rng boxes. Of course, there is no information yet as to how many "gems" you get for trading in an item. You might buy a box for 400 crowns [only price they mentioned, but I'm not betting there will be more expensive versions] get a duplicate item, and get 20 gems for trading it in as a duplicate. Of course the item you really wanted might be 200 or 2000 gems, so.....

And it will *really* suck for people who haven't bought too many items off the crown store. If the item isn't a duplicate, it automatically gets added to your account, and you can't trade or sell it.

If there is going to be a "gem" store to allow people to buy the items they really wanted, why not just put the items back in the store and allow people to outright buy them? There is one mount I'm interested in. I will NOT be gambling with the rng gremlins in the hope of getting it. I haven't bought many items from the store; my most regular purchase is mimic stones because I craft for my guilds and can't always find the style mats I need. If I buy a gamble box, I'm going to be stuck with just about every item that they might throw in there since I haven't bought the costumes and "cosmetic" items from the crown store. If I had wanted those items, I'd have bought them when they were available. Computer issues made me miss the senche I want, unfortunately.

The crown gem stuff is another scheme to make you continue gambling with those boxes - an example:

Let's say you have a lot of costumes already - in the unlikely case that you win, it will most likely be something, what is a lower value costume, which you might already have - say like for a 700 crown costume - now you get Crown gems worth 700 crowns. But that mount you hope for was worth 2500 crowns - so you need more Crown Gems to exchange this for that mount. And this is tempting you to continue gambling with these boxes.

The only way to "win" with these boxes, is to never buy one - but how many people will be able to realize that?

NewBlacksmurf

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion a vast majority of ESO players are morons.

There is exactly zero stuff that these boxes will contain that will have any actual effect on you in game...and yet...You're all talking about how this is the death of the game.

*** I played GW2 and they had these boxes....I had a crap ton of them just sitting in the bank and I maybe opened 1 the entire time I played from a key i randomly got.

The sheer absurdity of the posters in this thread is mind boggling...

Children are just one side of the coin - those can get addicted to gambling when exposed at a young age - the other side of the coin are people which are already gambling addicted or have a low level of self-control when it comes to things they want, even if they cannot afford those and it would bring them into an existence crisis or their family.

Ok Helen Lovejoy; if you can't handle box sales in a video game you can't handle being on the internet in the first place. In fact its safe to say you can't handle being anywhere at any given time in the United States since you'll be tempted by "chance"

I did not expect you to understand the deeper meaning of what an addiction means for the person being addicted. That they do not have control over their behavior anymore, that it is an impulse control disorder.

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

I understand the deeper meaning of it; I'm laughing at how absurd you're being by trying to say we shouldn't have any lock boxes because someone with ICD might play this game. Completely ignoring the fact that a person with ICD would have to deal with a myriad of other things in life before he even got to the point of playing this game. Basically you're using the "Think of the Children" argument for limiting something. Can't have Cokes, To much sugar in them, Think of the Children.....Someone might become addicted to ***, Lets ban it for everyone, Think of the Children....

hell....ESO is pretty violent; It might cause some kid to go on a murdering spree....Lets remove all fighting from the game cause Think of the Children.

What kind of an argument is this - basically saying - well, ICD people have problems anyway, so we can just put up another trap they can fall into without to even care, because they could as well fall into any other trap. And when we are on it, we make this trap really expensive for them and prey on their weakness and abuse them - they do not deserve better.

That is basically your point of view.

That's not fair at all. You're taking an extremely thin slice of population, and use them as an example to show how boxes will ruin their lives. Even though in reality they do have much more pressing problems than gambling-like mechanic in the game that they play (both the game, and the box part) completely voluntarily.

This game is rated M for mature 17+. At least that's the way it was at launch. Argument 'think of the children' is invalid by the nature of the game.

You can't shield children or anyone else from all world's reality And i completely agree that 'Rng loot boxes' are not an ethical business practice, moreover, i have no plans to participate in buying anything random.

I used to play a p2w game with a box event held once every couple months. For a week, the game would have a pretty huge influx of money, and people would get pretty toxic. Exclusive combat pets, purple fishing rods and other crafting means would be introduced, while most people would get health pots and other meaningless stuft.

Guilds would fight each other (dueling within the same faction was enabled) and break each other's purple exclusive loot just to prove a point that they are the strongest. If a single player gets it, he gets attacked all the time to get that fishing rod or whatever broken.

It was pretty toxic, but it brought money to the company. The game is still alive even though it's been over 7 years since i logged in the last time..

So on top of all mixed feelings, i'm more ok with the boxes than not, but i will not tolerate any armor or weapon loot from them. I can live with cosmetic unique stuff for now, but ZOS is already pushing a little too far.

And yes, it's just tasteless. One would expect more class and lore reasoning from an ES game.

Nah, you do not understand what really bothers me with this - it is that they INTENTIONALLY design it so, that it is a trap for people with either a gambling addiction or an impulse control disorder - these boxes do not effect normal people a lot, because most do not gamble anyway and will avoid these boxes and the rest of them will not go that far to buy more than a few boxes for the fun of it - but a person with an ICD or gambling addiction does not really have a choice other than to leave the game or fall into this trap - their condition will make them fall for it, if they don't leave - and this is basically either alienating these customers or preying on them - a video game is a good place to prey on people, because a lot might already have a problem to control their gaming behavior, what can as well be a form of ICD - so a game like this has lots of victims to this rng box scheme - and this is what makes it so immoral and unethical from ZOS to implement it this way.

I think it is not only a gross exaggeration, but also completely irresponsible of you to formally ACCUSE ZoS of INTENTIONALLY preying on people with specific disabilities. Personally I had a lot of respect for you and your opinions until you got on your soapbox for this issue. You don't have to agree with them, and you can post your discord about it, but you have gone FAR beyond voicing your feelings - and I have lost all respect for you at this point.

If I were Zenimax, I would sue you for liable.

Thing is....they are intentionally preying on ppl to gamble which is why they're adding chance loot boxes instead of 100 other possibilities. It is what it is.....you can be upset by their words but they are intentionally putting in a chance game just like they intentionally listed crown items for 2500-5k like the recustomization stuff is split to cause you to spend 5k like how you have to sub or buy crowns to dye costumes

It's exactly a money scheme to get many different types of people to spend more.

x5ofspadez

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I really dont mind as long as there is only items that have been previously available on the Crown Store, but never to have exclusive items in them.

Then again I probably wont buy them anyways. Unless there's a mount specific box.

acw37162

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I'm fine with it as long as it is stuff previously released.

Not something brand new you have a 1 in 20 chance of getting but only for a limited time.

Because I just don't trust ZOS random number generator. Why?

Over 500 gold keys not one divines skoria shoulder in any weight.

My last 36 gold zeys 12 prosperous shoulder in assorted flavors, I should legit be about eight keys from ZOS when they remove these from the loot table.

Spawn of Mephala, over the course of the last year I have recorded 11 Mephala helmets 7 Medium Well Fitted, 1 Heavy well fitted, and 2 light prosperous and training.

This is before you even get to drop rates of say spell power cure, scathing Mage, and if your glutting for punishment like me after months of farming not one infused or divines Leeching Plate.

Oh did I mention Wrothgar, thanks for updating the Wrothgar sets to include weapons. Just one problem they don't drop or if they which I can not certify they drop in CP150. Apparently, these drops are behind three RNG walls you have to get the set to drop, you have to get the random weapon to drop, you have to get the right CP version to drop, and then you have to pray to a bitter sweet RNJesus for a trait you can stomach. But, apperantly CP 160 Wrother set drop more frequently in Imperial City, go figure.

Yeah not a fan of whatever formula or algorithm they use for that garbage.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

OmniDevil wrote: »

Neverwinter: Elder Scrolls Edition

I guess we can expect giant Orange letters whenever someone gets something good, right?

yeah.

Oh and dont forget Tera, Archeage, Bade & Soul, Wildstar, plus numerous others that ALL started out with clearly announced 'cosmetic' only Boxes and ALL eventually ended up with exclusive game changing contents.

Played all those some from alpha but all from beta and into live and eventually left them all for the same reason...... P2W boxes that we were initially told would never be that.

I am sure there are many on these very forums all with this very same Deja-Vu feeling

Which kind of seems like the normal life - cycle for these games anymore. Personally I don't have a problem with them doing this as I see it as a normal progression. It isn't the first time, and it certainly won't be the last.

It is becoming the norm because it works. It doesn't make it right or a good thing for customers. They aren't selling these for direct purchase on the store because random boxes give a significant profit advantage. Mounts and costumes aren't cheap on the store already so people must spend a fortune on these random boxes.

Is this the direction people want the gaming industry to go? If people support these practices, then that's what we will get.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

Now, Gina, show that you are honest at ZOS - and give us the chance table for these items - an honest one - this is the only thing to get an acceptance for this and to show that this is not just a blatant cash grab and preying on gambling addicts. Be honest with us and show us, that there is a reasonable chance to get these items, then we might accept it - but if it is like in Archeage with percentages of 0.1%, 0.01% and lower, then this cannot be accepted and some of us will never spend another dime on this game.

Knowing ZOS history with RNG, I expect the worst.

Well, it's their loss - it is about 180,000 crowns, which I will not spend on this game per year, and I would have played for long, but so I will leave when my ESO+ runs out in August 2017 and not spend a single US$ on this game until then - it's their loss.

Not to forget about that bunch of ESO gold edition packs, which I wanted to give as a gift to role play friends around christmas - this will as well not happen now. Nor do I need houses, and I would have bought like 12 of them - if not more - so be it - they do not want my money in a fair deal, they rather go for gamble.

I'm lucky my ESO+ is month by month so I've cancelled. Going to uninstalled tonight, which leaves loads of space for a new game. Might treat myself

no mans sky as no pay wall

I heard there isn't much to do in that game and it is kinda repetitive, though.

It kinda depends on how you approach it. If you're just wandering around looking for stuff to see, it's pretty striking, and very relaxing. If you're trying to get a 48 slot ship right this moment, then, yeah, it's going to be pretty repetitive and shallow.

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

JimT722 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

OmniDevil wrote: »

Neverwinter: Elder Scrolls Edition

I guess we can expect giant Orange letters whenever someone gets something good, right?

yeah.

Oh and dont forget Tera, Archeage, Bade & Soul, Wildstar, plus numerous others that ALL started out with clearly announced 'cosmetic' only Boxes and ALL eventually ended up with exclusive game changing contents.

Played all those some from alpha but all from beta and into live and eventually left them all for the same reason...... P2W boxes that we were initially told would never be that.

I am sure there are many on these very forums all with this very same Deja-Vu feeling

Which kind of seems like the normal life - cycle for these games anymore. Personally I don't have a problem with them doing this as I see it as a normal progression. It isn't the first time, and it certainly won't be the last.

It is becoming the norm because it works.

Is this the direction people want the gaming industry to go? If people support these practices, then that's what we will get.

This is the true message here. It is the direction because it works - and as long as it works it will continue.

If we want true change, then we boycott the boxes when they come out. If not one box sells and no revenue is generated, then change will happen. If everyone here complains and whines and then they sell thousands of boxes, don't expect anything to change and your voices won't amount to anything. Talk is cheap.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

acw37162 wrote: »

Because I just don't trust ZOS random number generator. Why?

Over 500 gold keys not one divines skoria shoulder in any weight.

But you keep trying....right.

You know they are there in the loot table, at least you are told so, you'v seen players with them............so keep grinding try another 10 keys........nothing...."dang. i must be close now..I am due for a drop"....another 10 keys...........and another 10 keys

THIS is how RNG boxes work, but now your playing with real money..............good luck !

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

elvenmad wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Because I just don't trust ZOS random number generator. Why?

Over 500 gold keys not one divines skoria shoulder in any weight.

But you keep trying....right.

You know they are there in the loot table, at least you are told so, you'v seen players with them............so keep grinding try another 10 keys........nothing...."dang. i must be close now..I am due for a drop"....another 10 keys...........and another 10 keys

THIS is how RNG boxes work, but now your playing with real money..............good luck !

The RNG in this game has always been streaky as hell. Of course, that was never a problem before, because real money wasn't involved.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion a vast majority of ESO players are morons.

There is exactly zero stuff that these boxes will contain that will have any actual effect on you in game...and yet...You're all talking about how this is the death of the game.

*** I played GW2 and they had these boxes....I had a crap ton of them just sitting in the bank and I maybe opened 1 the entire time I played from a key i randomly got.

The sheer absurdity of the posters in this thread is mind boggling...

Children are just one side of the coin - those can get addicted to gambling when exposed at a young age - the other side of the coin are people which are already gambling addicted or have a low level of self-control when it comes to things they want, even if they cannot afford those and it would bring them into an existence crisis or their family.

Ok Helen Lovejoy; if you can't handle box sales in a video game you can't handle being on the internet in the first place. In fact its safe to say you can't handle being anywhere at any given time in the United States since you'll be tempted by "chance"

I did not expect you to understand the deeper meaning of what an addiction means for the person being addicted. That they do not have control over their behavior anymore, that it is an impulse control disorder.

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

I understand the deeper meaning of it; I'm laughing at how absurd you're being by trying to say we shouldn't have any lock boxes because someone with ICD might play this game. Completely ignoring the fact that a person with ICD would have to deal with a myriad of other things in life before he even got to the point of playing this game. Basically you're using the "Think of the Children" argument for limiting something. Can't have Cokes, To much sugar in them, Think of the Children.....Someone might become addicted to ***, Lets ban it for everyone, Think of the Children....

hell....ESO is pretty violent; It might cause some kid to go on a murdering spree....Lets remove all fighting from the game cause Think of the Children.

What kind of an argument is this - basically saying - well, ICD people have problems anyway, so we can just put up another trap they can fall into without to even care, because they could as well fall into any other trap. And when we are on it, we make this trap really expensive for them and prey on their weakness and abuse them - they do not deserve better.

That is basically your point of view.

That's not fair at all. You're taking an extremely thin slice of population, and use them as an example to show how boxes will ruin their lives. Even though in reality they do have much more pressing problems than gambling-like mechanic in the game that they play (both the game, and the box part) completely voluntarily.

This game is rated M for mature 17+. At least that's the way it was at launch. Argument 'think of the children' is invalid by the nature of the game.

You can't shield children or anyone else from all world's reality And i completely agree that 'Rng loot boxes' are not an ethical business practice, moreover, i have no plans to participate in buying anything random.

I used to play a p2w game with a box event held once every couple months. For a week, the game would have a pretty huge influx of money, and people would get pretty toxic. Exclusive combat pets, purple fishing rods and other crafting means would be introduced, while most people would get health pots and other meaningless stuft.

Guilds would fight each other (dueling within the same faction was enabled) and break each other's purple exclusive loot just to prove a point that they are the strongest. If a single player gets it, he gets attacked all the time to get that fishing rod or whatever broken.

It was pretty toxic, but it brought money to the company. The game is still alive even though it's been over 7 years since i logged in the last time..

So on top of all mixed feelings, i'm more ok with the boxes than not, but i will not tolerate any armor or weapon loot from them. I can live with cosmetic unique stuff for now, but ZOS is already pushing a little too far.

And yes, it's just tasteless. One would expect more class and lore reasoning from an ES game.

Nah, you do not understand what really bothers me with this - it is that they INTENTIONALLY design it so, that it is a trap for people with either a gambling addiction or an impulse control disorder - these boxes do not effect normal people a lot, because most do not gamble anyway and will avoid these boxes and the rest of them will not go that far to buy more than a few boxes for the fun of it - but a person with an ICD or gambling addiction does not really have a choice other than to leave the game or fall into this trap - their condition will make them fall for it, if they don't leave - and this is basically either alienating these customers or preying on them - a video game is a good place to prey on people, because a lot might already have a problem to control their gaming behavior, what can as well be a form of ICD - so a game like this has lots of victims to this rng box scheme - and this is what makes it so immoral and unethical from ZOS to implement it this way.

I think it is not only a gross exaggeration, but also completely irresponsible of you to formally ACCUSE ZoS of INTENTIONALLY preying on people with specific disabilities. Personally I had a lot of respect for you and your opinions until you got on your soapbox for this issue. You don't have to agree with them, and you can post your discord about it, but you have gone FAR beyond voicing your feelings - and I have lost all respect for you at this point.

If I were Zenimax, I would sue you for liable.

Would be nice if they did, then I would have the publicity to really bang on them. This will anyway be investigated, if they let their EU servers in Germany and implement this - the officials will have to check, if it is intentional or not, because it makes a difference by law and has different consequences.

Edit: IMO it fulfills the requirements stated in §138 BGB which is about immoral business deals. 138/2 is about "Wucher" which has all the qualities like they can be found with these boxes, but it requires "intention" - if there is no intention, then it falls back to 138/1 - the difference is, that 138/2 can lead to up to 3 years in prison, in severe cases up to 10 years. I have to bring this to the attention of german officials if they offer this on a server, which is located in Germany - because it is most likely an immoral offer and can even be a crime.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

x5ofspadez wrote: »

I really dont mind as long as there is only items that have been previously available on the Crown Store, but never to have exclusive items in them.

Then again I probably wont buy them anyways. Unless there's a mount specific box.

@x5ofspadez Just so you are aware, they already said there will be super rare mounts exclusive to these RNG boxes.