anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Given the (so far (54% "No") overwhelmingly negative results to this system, are you guys at ZOS actually gonna do something about it?
I don't browse the forums that much, so I don't know about how much influence we truly have as your community; but when I was playing LoTRO, if we had a complaint about a system or something, and made a poll with such stark results, Turbine/Codemasters would act.
I have at least a dozen examples from the top of my head that ZOS actually does listen to feedback.
However, this feedback had to be reasonably phrased and well argumented. It's the quality of the feedback that will matter, not the quantity. In the present case, having people going all nuts over RNG-boxes, comparing them to slavery and threatening to alert Human Rights Watch doesn't help our opinions to even remotely look serious. Neither do drama queen quitters.
Feedback also needs to be "balanced" = players' opinions are often biased by their own personal interests. Whatever doesn't fit in the "grand scheme of things" (either for the game or for its business model) will be rejected no matter what.
Also, don't forget that this forum is extremely negative. People would probably vote overwhelmingly "no" to anything, from the color scheme of the forums to weather preferences...
They don't give a toss about lockboxes themselves. They want to encourage us to spend more money and lockboxes just happen to be a very effective way to do it. Giving them away for free would go against the very reason ZOS decided to implement them.frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.
Yes, and as mentioned by several others already...if they wanted extra money then why not just add the mounts back to the store. People want these mounts, they are not expecting them to be free. They just want to buy the mount they want for £x and not gamble £xxx in the hope that they will be lucky enough to land it.
I agree, but the reason MMO devs hide behind lockboxes (although they'll never explicitly come out and say it) is because on average, players spend far more trying to obtain the desired item this way. It's the most cancerous form of cash shop marketing available, but boards and shareholders love the profit margins.
It'll be interesting to see the maths on it - I'm not disagreeing. Just wondering if the extra profit is worth the loss of goodwill.
If they add all the mounts back to the Crown store they will sell tens of thousands in total, let's say 20,000 (this is for all the mounts), at about £20 each on average. That is £400,000. The chance is that they will sell more than this but let us use this as a working figure.
On the other hand, the boxes will go for 400 crowns which are about £4 in the UK. On this logic, they will need to sell 100,000 boxes to make up the same amount of revenue.
Note, this does not include subscriptions lost because of people closing their account over this issue. Let's be generous and say that would cost them just £10,000; this adds another 2,500 boxes on the break even.
So, by my maths (which is 100% based on guesses and assumptions) , they would need to sell over 102,500 boxes just to cover the money they could have got without getting lots of bad PR. Seems a high amount for the negative press, especially considering my maths is probably underestimating how many mounts people would buy in the shop if they were readded.
Very easily done, especially when you factor in the rng of lockboxes, which is why they're so tempting to devs in the first place. You might get the mount you want on the first pull, but then you may have to open 10+ to get it. They generally work best against people with little self control - the "just one more try" mindset can lead players to spend far, far more than they were willing to just to get the item they wanted.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »eric_1961_ukb16_ESO wrote: »Will never buy one. It's a good test of how much ZoS value customer feedback though considering how negative that feedback is. Any decent company getting this kind of backlash would take a step back and dump the idea, so how about it ZoS, what kind of company are you?
^^^ This.
ZoS, spend some time improving armor image maps, instead.
See ? That's typically not "legitimate feedback".
How is doing what YOU personally want (and the vast majority of players I'd guess don't care about at all) going to feed ZOS' wallet to pay server costs, salaries and investors ?
I don't approve of RNG-boxes, BUT I reckon ZOS needs income, especially since last update was mainly about the base game and next update is entirely about the base game (thus, not "sellable" as DLC and thus not bringing any direct income).
If you want them to take care of your armor maps, you have to let them earn money elsewhere.
Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »As long as they are only cosmetic and fluff items, I have no problem with paid-for lockboxes. That way no-one gains any advantage from buying them, Zenimax get money to invest in the game from the gullible and there is no disadvantage for those us that choose to ignore them. I will certainly not be buying any of them, as has been my policy in other MMOs.
If the lockboxes are guaranteed to be happening, then I think this would be the best compromise. I don't mind if they re-use limited time items, because they can still come back later. But they should not have lockbox-exclusive items. Anything that can be won in a lockbox should have a direct purchase alternative.If ZOS wants to add some "fun" gambling, then there must be one rule: Every possible drop from the RNG crate must be available for direct purchase.
This would allow people to try their luck at getting an item cheaply. But it would not leave RNG as the only way to get an item.
I do not like to gamble, I never gamble, and I would not be tempted to gamble. So these crates have absolutely zero effect on me personally. But they can and do affect people who don't have that kind of self-control. And by having items that are obtainable only through random crates--either items that are "discontinued" or items that are exclusive to the gamble boxes--they are enticing the compulsive players to gamble. And even though it doesn't affect me, it is a low tactic that elicits my disapproval.
So, ZOS, if you want to add gambling, do it right: Make everything that is in your current gamble box pool available for direct purchase. Rotate stuff in and out as you see fit, but there should never by anything in the gamble pool that cannot be direct-purchased. It's just a virtual store of bits--don't insult our intelligence by claiming "limited space". Make this change, and I will withdraw all objections. Don't, and I'll know just how far you are willing to exploit a certain segment of your customer base.Not so. The point of the post is to defend ZOS against the people who are accusing them of breaking promises or lying. I've often jumped in on threads to defend ZOS' (and anyone else's) integrity while still being neutral (and sometimes in opposition) of their decisions and opinions. They've already fallen down on their moral integrity by introducing something which encourages gambling, but I have yet to see an accusation of outright lying or broken promises that is actually valid, so I am skeptical over what was actually said vs what has been inferred.starkerealm wrote: »It actually kinda is. I'm sorry, but there's no other point to that post. Additionally, there was a "no, never" quote, probably on ESO live, I just can't be bothered to hunt it down for you because, quite frankly, at this point? I've got better things to do with my life.Disclaimer - This isn't a defense of ZOS adding lockboxes. This is a defense of the currently unfounded claim that ZOS said they never would.
If the only thing we'd gotten saying, "no lockboxes" was a mealy mouthed, "no plans at this time," I would not have come back. The quote exists out there. If you don't believe me, or want to prove me wrong, you can go prove it's never been stated.
And I'm sure you know that asking me to prove non-existence of that quote is a logical fallacy
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Well considering 99% of the players have requested quality updates, or what some suggest as fixes, balancing, etc. it's not just their opinion.
The_Undefined wrote: »I wonder if ZOS really takes this player feedback off of the forums or they mainly focus on feedback that has been sent in. Does reddit count?
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Well considering 99% of the players have requested quality updates, or what some suggest as fixes, balancing, etc. it's not just their opinion.
LoL, just give me please ONE, just ONE thing / update / change that 99% of the players would agree upon ?
I think aside from "Lag in Cyrodiil", there is NOTHING that the playerbase as a whole would agree upon in unity.
Some want housing, some couldn't care less, some want PvP arenas, some couldn't care less, some want to be able to use more of their CP, some want the cap to be lowered, some wanted PvP jutice, some loathed it, some wants things buffed, some want things nerfed, and if there's one thing NOONE EVER agrees upon, it's balancing issues.
There's no such thing as a "we", as a "us", and when you say "ZOS doesn't listen to us", it means literally nothing.
Back to the specific topic of RNG-boxes, to me it's like junk/fast food. Everyone hates them (or pretends to), everyone knows it makes fat and sick and costs ultimately more money than proper food, but guess what ? They bring far more money than your regular restaurant with healthy food around the corner. There's a huge gap between what people say they want and what they actually do, and ZOS knows that. When it comes to consumer behaviour, there's no such thing as listening to people. Valid thing is to watch them acting.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Well considering 99% of the players have requested quality updates, or what some suggest as fixes, balancing, etc. it's not just their opinion.
LoL, just give me please ONE, just ONE thing / update / change that 99% of the players would agree upon ?
Interesting. Jonathan Lander has been a General Manager at Zenimax for 10 months. He seems to be in charge of all the money making ideas! Perhaps it's him we need to express our opinons to or maybe even understand this isn't going to be the first big change to come: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-lander-9364101
@Lysette @NewBlacksmurf @Rohamad_Ali @Abeille @starkerealm
eric_1961_ukb16_ESO wrote: »SWG NGE
Mass Effect 3 ending
The two examples that I can think of where the communities were about 90% united.
gap closer fix.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Well considering 99% of the players have requested quality updates, or what some suggest as fixes, balancing, etc. it's not just their opinion.
LoL, just give me please ONE, just ONE thing / update / change that 99% of the players would agree upon ?
I think aside from "Lag in Cyrodiil", there is NOTHING that the playerbase as a whole would agree upon in unity.
Some want housing, some couldn't care less, some want PvP arenas, some couldn't care less, some want to be able to use more of their CP, some want the cap to be lowered, some wanted PvP jutice, some loathed it, some wants things buffed, some want things nerfed, and if there's one thing NOONE EVER agrees upon, it's balancing issues.
There's no such thing as a "we", as a "us", and when you say "ZOS doesn't listen to us", it means literally nothing.
Back to the specific topic of RNG-boxes, to me it's like junk/fast food. Everyone hates them (or pretends to), everyone knows it makes fat and sick and costs ultimately more money than proper food, but guess what ? They bring far more money than your regular restaurant with healthy food around the corner. There's a huge gap between what people say they want and what they actually do, and ZOS knows that. When it comes to consumer behaviour, there's no such thing as listening to people. Valid thing is to watch them acting.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Interesting. Jonathan Lander has been a General Manager at Zenimax for 10 months. He seems to be in charge of all the money making ideas! Perhaps it's him we need to express our opinons to or maybe even understand this isn't going to be the first big change to come: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-lander-9364101
@Lysette @NewBlacksmurf @Rohamad_Ali @Abeille @starkerealm
They probably just unfroze him from the 80's . They should put him back in the cryo tube immediately before he teaches execuspeach .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BAeTf8px0mE
I checked him out and I won't go bash the guy cause he's not who delivered the message.
See here's the thing....we all come up with bad ideas but if ever my boss asks me to deliver a public message that I don't agree with, I've earned the right and carry myself in a way that I will and can say no without being fired.
To clarify, I handle over 38 US states for recruiting and marketing today for the top commercial insurance carrier in the US since 2007.
I'm that valuable but everyone can't.
In respects to who delivered the message and who else has commented on that message in support, I will address them here.
Regardless of intent or belief, when you stand behind or show support for anything, you actually believe in these things until you step away and verbalize as such.
There are some folks that I know can care less about finding ways to get ppl to spend more money and that I don't have issue with. I have issue with the methods chosen and agreed to.
If you all need more money, then you need to drastically change your organization. You should be bringing in somewhere in approx range of $600 million dollars from PC release till now. That's a low estimate
If your costs during development and current are still in excess of $600 mil, please sale the game to capable hands.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »There's a huge gap between what people say they want and what they actually do, and ZOS knows that. When it comes to consumer behaviour, there's no such thing as listening to people. Valid thing is to watch them acting.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@anitajoneb17_ESO
Just one.....
1. Let me reorder my characters
2. Provide patch notes prior to the server going down or right after
3. Balance concerns as results of changing things to address a PvP or PvE concern
4. Activity finder issues
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Interesting. Jonathan Lander has been a General Manager at Zenimax for 10 months. He seems to be in charge of all the money making ideas! Perhaps it's him we need to express our opinons to or maybe even understand this isn't going to be the first big change to come: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-lander-9364101
@Lysette @NewBlacksmurf @Rohamad_Ali @Abeille @starkerealm
They probably just unfroze him from the 80's . They should put him back in the cryo tube immediately before he teaches execuspeach .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BAeTf8px0mE
I checked him out and I won't go bash the guy cause he's not who delivered the message.
See here's the thing....we all come up with bad ideas but if ever my boss asks me to deliver a public message that I don't agree with, I've earned the right and carry myself in a way that I will and can say no without being fired.
To clarify, I handle over 38 US states for recruiting and marketing today for the top commercial insurance carrier in the US since 2007.
I'm that valuable but everyone can't.
In respects to who delivered the message and who else has commented on that message in support, I will address them here.
Regardless of intent or belief, when you stand behind or show support for anything, you actually believe in these things until you step away and verbalize as such.
There are some folks that I know can care less about finding ways to get ppl to spend more money and that I don't have issue with. I have issue with the methods chosen and agreed to.
If you all need more money, then you need to drastically change your organization. You should be bringing in somewhere in approx range of $600 million dollars from PC release till now. That's a low estimate
If your costs during development and current are still in excess of $600 mil, please sale the game to capable hands.
But at no point has ZOS said they need money and rightfully so . There profitable and boastit7 million players now . So assuming this is a marketing move to save the game or keep it alive is just an assumption . ZOS never said we need more support so here's a way you can help . People imagine things .
They pitched this as they found a way to bring back old crown store items . Which makes me laugh as I imagine a boiler room of Devs going "Hey guys , how do we get those old things back on that store ?! We lost the re add button ! Someone's got to think of the customers here and get those things back in asap ! Move it you bums !" Then some new tech running back with a piece of paper screaming "boss I found a way ! loot boxes ! Good save kid . You just saved the game !"
I mean the way they talk to us like a studio audience at a infomercial ... Lmao
If that's the determining factor, profit maximization over player feedback, well, don't count me enthusiastic.
It's almost insulting to dismiss the verbally expressed feedback of many consumers saying: 'They don't really know what they want, just wait till we see the revenue numbers.'
they want to destroy this game
AClockworkLime wrote: »Unless all these crown store items secured through the lockboxes are tradable/sellable to other players, it's going to *** a LOT of people off when they open it and find they got something they already have...
AClockworkLime wrote: »Unless all these crown store items secured through the lockboxes are tradable/sellable to other players, it's going to *** a LOT of people off when they open it and find they got something they already have...