Cheating and Exploits

phbell

Berenhir wrote: »

Could we just have a pop up window when clicking on the name in death recap that tells us the stats and sets the other guy is wearing with his unbuffed regen, max and penetration values? Like our own char stat window?

Should not be hard to implement and an easy way to distinguish the cheat from the skilled player?

Excellent idea!

NobleNerd

Here is another post with a good write-up and video discussing cheating and naming/shaming.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/288545/open-letter-exploits-perma-bans-naming-shaming/p1

TheLordSoth

While it was great of you fella's to open a forum discussion on this issue we all know ZeniHax ain't gonna do *** about it. We are talking about a game who's idea of PvP Player vs. Player is freeze locking one player while the other beats them to death with no way out of it. I run about 80-114 lag. 99.9% of the time I get attacked or in battle I wind up pinned to ground until attacked to death even though full stam and break free is on mouse roller button.
But I have come to understand that as long as ZeniHax keeps having enough suckers buying the DLC and crowns they are really not going to do anything about issues like lag, cheats etc. . I mean really, why should they for that matter.

jhharvest

Forum moderation attitude towards threads on banning is complete BS.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/289410/give-people-a-second-chance-its-not-right

JR_Returns

I've been playing this game for a few years now and it's clear that some cheating does happen. ZOS have obviously made attempts to stop it by using by what to me seems to be complex methods. As someone who writes control software for a living I know complex solutions just bring more problems, you only use them when there is no other option,

I know there will be a lot of people who won't agree but generally people cheat for a reason, that is unless they are psychos. The simplest way to reduce cheating is to remove the reason for cheating. From what I've observed cheating normally occurs in PvP, the trails and arenas. In fact anywhere there are leader boards and the chance of gold rewards. A quick simple fix would be to remove the leader boards and gold rewards for a period of say 3 months to see if that reduces the level of cheating. If it does nothing bring them back, however if the level of cheating is noticeably reduced remove them for good.

clayandaudrey_ESO

jhharvest wrote: »

Forum moderation attitude towards threads on banning is complete BS.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/289410/give-people-a-second-chance-its-not-right

Forum moderation in general is very bad. It is embarrassing I would think to ZOS.

Ackwalan

JR_Returns wrote: »

I've been playing this game for a few years now and it's clear that some cheating does happen. ZOS have obviously made attempts to stop it by using by what to me seems to be complex methods. As someone who writes control software for a living I know complex solutions just bring more problems, you only use them when there is no other option,

I know there will be a lot of people who won't agree but generally people cheat for a reason, that is unless they are psychos. The simplest way to reduce cheating is to remove the reason for cheating. From what I've observed cheating normally occurs in PvP, the trails and arenas. In fact anywhere there are leader boards and the chance of gold rewards. A quick simple fix would be to remove the leader boards and gold rewards for a period of say 3 months to see if that reduces the level of cheating. If it does nothing bring them back, however if the level of cheating is noticeably reduced remove them for good.

Doing things the easy and lazy way is never a good fix. ZOS should take a look at the logs for the top 10% for leader board and kill vs death ratio players. If they are found to be cheating, ban them and don't unban them. Taking the rewards away from all people who play the game legit, won't stop cheating, it will stop people from playing.

LadyLethalla

Over the weekend in Thornblade (PS4 EU) there were a number of AD Templars who positioned themselves right outside the Covenant base - ON the platform that the door opens onto, and therefore immediately ganking anyone who didn't venture out in a large group. Is this another gap-closing exploit? Isn't the whole reason for the platform's existence so that you have a 'safe' area on exiting your base?

Dral_Shady

LadyLethalla wrote: »

Over the weekend in Thornblade (PS4 EU) there were a number of AD Templars who positioned themselves right outside the Covenant base - ON the platform that the door opens onto, and therefore immediately ganking anyone who didn't venture out in a large group. Is this another gap-closing exploit? Isn't the whole reason for the platform's existence so that you have a 'safe' area on exiting your base?

I wouldnt categorize it as exploit as much as some VERY bad sportsmanship.

Enodoc

LadyLethalla wrote: »

Over the weekend in Thornblade (PS4 EU) there were a number of AD Templars who positioned themselves right outside the Covenant base - ON the platform that the door opens onto, and therefore immediately ganking anyone who didn't venture out in a large group. Is this another gap-closing exploit? Isn't the whole reason for the platform's existence so that you have a 'safe' area on exiting your base?

Is this in Imperial City Sewers? If so, you are correct that this shouldn't be possible. There is an area debuff in that room that is supposed to essentially disable gap-closers; it's called "Range suppression" or something. Enemy players shouldn't be able to get onto that platform.

Something that I think would help this issue specifically would be if they added a few NPC soldiers to that platform as guards. Those guards would then be able to fight off any enemy player who gets too close to the base. (It's a bit strange that the alliances aren't seen to be defending the base from attackers.)

elantaura

They are using toppling charge most of the time from what i can gather on first person out I have not been the first out yet so going on what others have said, then they are hitting the door with jabs. They have racked up over 100000 ap.... and I think they would gap close on guards in truth.
It's ironic that they are topping the campaign leaderboard for what I'd call pve for you know attacking a door.
We spend time dislodging them sacrificing people working around and all and then they are back hitting doors again it's ridiculous. We have ways of moving them but being there in the first place is an issue.

Pomaikai

In IC you're in a door, you're glowing purple, and suddenly someone is hitting you and you're dead. You die while purple. This is allowed how?

Enodoc

Pomaikai wrote: »

In IC you're in a door, you're glowing purple, and suddenly someone is hitting you and you're dead. You die while purple. This is allowed how?

Sounds like a bug (yay, another one). You shouldn't be able to attack or be attacked while the Sanctuary debuff is on you. Which door was this specifically?

LadyLethalla

Enodoc wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

In IC you're in a door, you're glowing purple, and suddenly someone is hitting you and you're dead. You die while purple. This is allowed how?

Sounds like a bug (yay, another one). You shouldn't be able to attack or be attacked while the Sanctuary debuff is on you. Which door was this specifically?

Sewers Lambent Passage exit onto the platform is the one I was talking about. So no Sanctuary effect coming straight out of the base.

Pomaikai

Moving between sections up top. It happened to me in one door, and a guildie in my group the day before in another. It seems to happen as a zerg is moving through. I had someone in Red with a 2H mace that just kept swinging until I just suddenly took damage and died. I couldn't heal myself because of the debuff.

Enodoc

Pomaikai wrote: »

Moving between sections up top. It happened to me in one door, and a guildie in my group the day before in another. It seems to happen as a zerg is moving through. I had someone in Red with a 2H mace that just kept swinging until I just suddenly took damage and died. I couldn't heal myself because of the debuff.

Some of those District doors (the large ones) have a timed debuff rather than an AoE debuff. Is it possible that the enemy attacked you just as the timer wore off?

KingMagaw

IC is riddled with bugs and 1 year anniversary tells all. Only reason we hearing more is more players have went there this week, a lot of PvE'ers who would tell rather than taking advantage of these bugs.

You can chains people off sanctuary and ledges they spawn/come up from base. You can gap close 1 for sure. 3 more places where you can glitch into the terrain, this is just all i know of. Wasted my time once filling out a 'support' ticket, i am not doing it again.

XDragonDoomX

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/289730/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-5-9#latest


Alliance War
General •You will no longer be able to jump from the outer wall sections into or on top of an Inner Keep.

phbell

elantaura wrote: »

They are using toppling charge most of the time from what i can gather on first person out I have not been the first out yet so going on what others have said, then they are hitting the door with jabs. They have racked up over 100000 ap.... and I think they would gap close on guards in truth.
It's ironic that they are topping the campaign leaderboard for what I'd call pve for you know attacking a door.
We spend time dislodging them sacrificing people working around and all and then they are back hitting doors again it's ridiculous. We have ways of moving them but being there in the first place is an issue.

I take all the gap closers off my bars whenever I am in Cryodiil for this very reason. The ability to exploit, even unintentionally, is to too easy. It would be great if ZOS would put a little effort into fixing these bugs as people trying to play an honest game are placed at considerable disadvantage. Really spoils PvP, IMO.

Pomaikai

I'm a Templar and I use my gap closer all the time. Never once have I ever "accidentally" gap closed where I shouldn't have been allowed to gap close to. The only issue I have to deal with is gap closing out of the world and free falling for several minutes while the battle rages on around me.

phbell

Pomaikai wrote: »

I'm a Templar and I use my gap closer all the time. Never once have I ever "accidentally" gap closed where I shouldn't have been allowed to gap close to. The only issue I have to deal with is gap closing out of the world and free falling for several minutes while the battle rages on around me.

Roger that. Toppling charge rarely works for me in Cryodiil,. It would just be my luck that it would choose the wrong moment to actually work.

antihero727

Are the Storm Knight exploiters going to get the same banhammer treatment as the Salvation set users? I think punishment should be even across the board for every offense. The salvation users got a 1st offense permaban.

Elara_Northwind

There are certain DC players on my campaign that are most certainly using cheat engines or something similar... There is no way that a single persons health should stay at 100%, no matter what I do to them, especially not when I was emperor, and had 70k magicka

JerzeeDevil

Enodoc wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Moving between sections up top. It happened to me in one door, and a guildie in my group the day before in another. It seems to happen as a zerg is moving through. I had someone in Red with a 2H mace that just kept swinging until I just suddenly took damage and died. I couldn't heal myself because of the debuff.

Some of those District doors (the large ones) have a timed debuff rather than an AoE debuff. Is it possible that the enemy attacked you just as the timer wore off?

All day long in Skull too. No they are "exploiting" *cough cheating*. You walk out from the alleged safe zone of your base and BLAMMO!!!! Also, both reds and yellows are doing it. Not much seems to be done about it as it was reported multiple times in the past and they are NOT all Templars, either.

Le Sigh* and sad faced clown slinks away....

Judas Helviaryn

[I am reposting this here as per recommendation.]

So I've run across an issue over the past couple days.. People who know me know that, despite my technical limitations, I love to fight in the AvA and PvP areas. Cyrodiil and, more importantly, the Imperial City. As such, most of my personal income is derived from the IC, and a good chunk of that from Tel-Var stones, whether picked off of fresh player corpses or farmed from district bosses. I sell the goods, runes, equipment, the works.

Imagine my surprise when I run across multiple players, three in my personal experience so far, exploiting a game mechanic to farm IC npcs, the dremora and xivkyn specifically, for tel-var stones. This has something to do with the sneak mechanics in the game, hit detection, and how the game processes NPC respawns.

These dremora were silently dying and respawning instantly, while an enemy nightblade hid nearby performing the glitch. I happened upon this by chance.



Here's what I mean:
You have a clutch of dremora standing right outside of the sewer entrance into the Dominion sewers, in the Temple District. The player in question kills the dremora from stealth with one shot, without being anywhere in range, and harvests the tel-var, while the dremora in question respawn immediately. Before their bodies even hit the ground, they've respawned and are dead again. And again... and again.. and so on.
Obviously this translates to an insane amount of tel-var over a short period of time, and is even subject to mechanical automation (I.E the rubber band trick), since the player doesn't have to search for a new target once this one is dead.

Back to my opening paragraph, I and a lot of other people make gold off of tel-var, and this exploit has opened up the potential to severely devalue our time put into these avenues of profit.
The players exploiting this bug are, no doubt, flooding the market with IC wares, Repora, Itade, Hajeiko, the IC equipment, and seriously driving up supply. That leaves the rest of us honest players high and dry wasting our time and risking more than we need to, while these lazy ones give minimal effort for more rewards than an honest player could achieve. Sure, we could kill them for their exploited goods, but that not only opens us up to punishment for receiving said exploited goods from ZOS, the exploiters themselves have minimized their own risk by doing this as close as they can to their safe zones.

I've sent in multiple letters, the players in question have been reported with ample evidence, both screencaps and chat logs, some of which you'll see below.
My first encounter with this bug was a few months ago in Haderus, PC NA Temple District, with a rather famous player who I cannot name on here.

We don't have moderators in the game checking things out, at least not openly and I very much doubt at all.
ZOS needs to do something about this exploit, and in the meantime I intend for this to become as transparent as possible to spur their action.

Below is a self-incrimination from one such player, with their names redacted, speculating on the mechanics of the exploit after being caught.















And before anyone accuses me of trying to learn the exploit for myself, I don't have any compunction about lying to cheaters.

~Thank you @ZOS_PeterT

As an aside, neither I nor the subject in question explained how to perform the exploit in concrete terms. That is not and will never be my intention.

Kildayen

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

[I am reposting this here as per recommendation.]

So I've run across an issue over the past couple days.. People who know me know that, despite my technical limitations, I love to fight in the AvA and PvP areas. Cyrodiil and, more importantly, the Imperial City. As such, most of my personal income is derived from the IC, and a good chunk of that from Tel-Var stones, whether picked off of fresh player corpses or farmed from district bosses. I sell the goods, runes, equipment, the works.

Imagine my surprise when I run across multiple players, three in my personal experience so far, exploiting a game mechanic to farm IC npcs, the dremora and xivkyn specifically, for tel-var stones. This has something to do with the sneak mechanics in the game, hit detection, and how the game processes NPC respawns.

These dremora were silently dying and respawning instantly, while an enemy nightblade hid nearby performing the glitch. I happened upon this by chance.



Here's what I mean:
You have a clutch of dremora standing right outside of the sewer entrance into the Dominion sewers, in the Temple District. The player in question kills the dremora from stealth with one shot, without being anywhere in range, and harvests the tel-var, while the dremora in question respawn immediately. Before their bodies even hit the ground, they've respawned and are dead again. And again... and again.. and so on.
Obviously this translates to an insane amount of tel-var over a short period of time, and is even subject to mechanical automation (I.E the rubber band trick), since the player doesn't have to search for a new target once this one is dead.

Back to my opening paragraph, I and a lot of other people make gold off of tel-var, and this exploit has opened up the potential to severely devalue our time put into these avenues of profit.
The players exploiting this bug are, no doubt, flooding the market with IC wares, Repora, Itade, Hajeiko, the IC equipment, and seriously driving up supply. That leaves the rest of us honest players high and dry wasting our time and risking more than we need to, while these lazy ones give minimal effort for more rewards than an honest player could achieve. Sure, we could kill them for their exploited goods, but that not only opens us up to punishment for receiving said exploited goods from ZOS, the exploiters themselves have minimized their own risk by doing this as close as they can to their safe zones.

I've sent in multiple letters, the players in question have been reported with ample evidence, both screencaps and chat logs, some of which you'll see below.
My first encounter with this bug was a few months ago in Haderus, PC NA Temple District, with a rather famous player who I cannot name on here.

We don't have moderators in the game checking things out, at least not openly and I very much doubt at all.
ZOS needs to do something about this exploit, and in the meantime I intend for this to become as transparent as possible to spur their action.

Below is a self-incrimination from one such player, with their names redacted, speculating on the mechanics of the exploit after being caught.















And before anyone accuses me of trying to learn the exploit for myself, I don't have any compunction about lying to cheaters.

~Thank you @ZOS_PeterT

As an aside, neither I nor the subject in question explained how to perform the exploit in concrete terms. That is not and will never be my intention.

Thank you! I know exactly what you are talking about. I have seen and reported this person many times. They even invited me to their group to teach me how to do it. I did not participate and I left the group right away.

Lumbermill_Emperor

it only will be fixed when someone will describe openly on the forum HOW TO DO IT

Rohamad_Ali

When is the last time ZOS responded to this thread ?

Lumbermill_Emperor

its rather like BIN trade for them
to have a reason to close all other topics about exploits

Dubhliam

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

When is the last time ZOS responded to this thread ?

The last 4 responses:
August 16
August 15
July 5
July 5

Most of the responses are moderation anyway.
Communication is not their strong point.