@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
After reading this post, along with many others, I have to say I wasn't thrilled about the update. So I decided to gear up and hop into vMSA on the pts.
I used the same gear I have on live and I used the same skills I use on live, other than empowered ward. I finished the arena in just over an hour.
My honest thoughts:
My score was a little lower due to not being used to the changes, lack of addons and only having 300 champion points. By changes I mean, no more precast of shields and no more burst overload / frag heals. I found that the precast was not needed due to the heals that surge would provide at the time the enemies spawn. Everything else was pretty much the same. I did notice that I was using more magicka than my normal run on live but I feel this could be prevented after a little time spent dealing with the slight change to a rotation. It would just mean breaking some habits. Some rounds were harder but some rounds were easier due to the new surge. The new surge is not bad.
I took the time to run the arena on pts. I suggest other sorcs who are nervous about the changes should do the same. The changes are not as bleak as they sound.
Im adding some pictures as proof. The picture with the leader board was taken just moments ago.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
After reading this post, along with many others, I have to say I wasn't thrilled about the update. So I decided to gear up and hop into vMSA on the pts.
I used the same gear I have on live and I used the same skills I use on live, other than empowered ward. I finished the arena in just over an hour.
My honest thoughts:
My score was a little lower due to not being used to the changes, lack of addons and only having 300 champion points. By changes I mean, no more precast of shields and no more burst overload / frag heals. I found that the precast was not needed due to the heals that surge would provide at the time the enemies spawn. Everything else was pretty much the same. I did notice that I was using more magicka than my normal run on live but I feel this could be prevented after a little time spent dealing with the slight change to a rotation. It would just mean breaking some habits. Some rounds were harder but some rounds were easier due to the new surge. The new surge is not bad.
I took the time to run the arena on pts. I suggest other sorcs who are nervous about the changes should do the same. The changes are not as bleak as they sound.
Im adding some pictures as proof. The picture with the leader board was taken just moments ago.
@zeroIndex
I tried it out as well and found that it was a better heal since it's more consistent and triggers off ground AoE. Sure you don't get the Overload mega heals, but I prefer this version more. As for the shields, it's not like they last long enough for the time duration to really be an issue, except for those of us that precast shields.
I think this is once again a case of people reading patch notes and not testing them out, but instead immediately jumping to conclusions. It's the same with the tank changes, which benefits more people than it hurts.
I kind of wish everyone would take the time to properly test things out instead of giving up before even trying and making threads like these. Some of the posts here sound like people didn't even test out the surge.
After reading this post, along with many others, I have to say I wasn't thrilled about the update. So I decided to gear up and hop into vMSA on the pts.
I used the same gear I have on live and I used the same skills I use on live, other than empowered ward. I finished the arena in just over an hour.
My honest thoughts:
My score was a little lower due to not being used to the changes, lack of addons and only having 300 champion points. By changes I mean, no more precast of shields and no more burst overload / frag heals. I found that the precast was not needed due to the heals that surge would provide at the time the enemies spawn. Everything else was pretty much the same. I did notice that I was using more magicka than my normal run on live but I feel this could be prevented after a little time spent dealing with the slight change to a rotation. It would just mean breaking some habits. Some rounds were harder but some rounds were easier due to the new surge. The new surge is not bad.
I took the time to run the arena on pts. I suggest other sorcs who are nervous about the changes should do the same. The changes are not as bleak as they sound.
Im adding some pictures as proof. The picture with the leader board was taken just moments ago.
@zeroIndex
I tried it out as well and found that it was a better heal since it's more consistent and triggers off ground AoE. Sure you don't get the Overload mega heals, but I prefer this version more. As for the shields, it's not like they last long enough for the time duration to really be an issue, except for those of us that precast shields.
I think this is once again a case of people reading patch notes and not testing them out, but instead immediately jumping to conclusions. It's the same with the tank changes, which benefits more people than it hurts.
I kind of wish everyone would take the time to properly test things out instead of giving up before even trying and making threads like these. Some of the posts here sound like people didn't even test out the surge.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
how is the sorc toggle nice ?
After reading this post, along with many others, I have to say I wasn't thrilled about the update. So I decided to gear up and hop into vMSA on the pts.
I used the same gear I have on live and I used the same skills I use on live, other than empowered ward. I finished the arena in just over an hour.
My honest thoughts:
My score was a little lower due to not being used to the changes, lack of addons and only having 300 champion points. By changes I mean, no more precast of shields and no more burst overload / frag heals. I found that the precast was not needed due to the heals that surge would provide at the time the enemies spawn. Everything else was pretty much the same. I did notice that I was using more magicka than my normal run on live but I feel this could be prevented after a little time spent dealing with the slight change to a rotation. It would just mean breaking some habits. Some rounds were harder but some rounds were easier due to the new surge. The new surge is not bad.
I took the time to run the arena on pts. I suggest other sorcs who are nervous about the changes should do the same. The changes are not as bleak as they sound.
Im adding some pictures as proof. The picture with the leader board was taken just moments ago.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
how is the sorc toggle nice ?
he likely means Bound Armor and its morphs. I dont disagree, Aegis and Armaments are very important, but them having an active component would be useful.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
how is the sorc toggle nice ?
he likely means Bound Armor and its morphs. I dont disagree, Aegis and Armaments are very important, but them having an active component would be useful.
nightblades pretty much have bound armor in their passives.
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
how is the sorc toggle nice ?
he likely means Bound Armor and its morphs. I dont disagree, Aegis and Armaments are very important, but them having an active component would be useful.
nightblades pretty much have bound armor in their passives.
I know... I've said before, Bound Aegis and Bound Armaments could most definitely use an active skill...
@code65536
Sorcs just require a different approach. They can be quite powerful without Overload (which we all know is buggy as hell).
I'd like to show you what sorcerers are capable of in a trial setting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfi1e_2xif4
Oh, I'm well aware that in trials, you use Shooting Star just like everyone else, not Overload. Never once did I mention Overload in my post. But the key to good sustained DPS is DoTs, and the sorc DoT toolkit just isn't comparable to, say, the DK's. Couple this with Bound Armor further limiting the breadth of their toolkit. They can still pull good numbers, but relative to the other classes, they are weak.
Most magicka nightblades use the same amount of dots as sorcerers. Sorcs use Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade, Nightblades use Crippling Grasp and Elemental Blockade. Usually what I see anyway, so there's no really difference, other than the fact that Sorcs don't have a good class spammable. Doesn't stop them from doing 30k+ in group content.
You did see Nos' thread, right? The magblades in the CSH vMoL runs have all swapped to Force Pulse.
Nightblades can slot more abilities because they don't have to deal with a toggle eating up their bars, and we also run proxdet or path.
I messed around with Pulse, but Strife is better for my setup. Regardless, sorcs still lack a class spammable. And to be honest the sorc toggle is pretty nice and isn't something I think is a problem.
how is the sorc toggle nice ?
he likely means Bound Armor and its morphs. I dont disagree, Aegis and Armaments are very important, but them having an active component would be useful.
nightblades pretty much have bound armor in their passives.
I know... I've said before, Bound Aegis and Bound Armaments could most definitely use an active skill...
or just get rig of rebate and slap bound armor there. gain the effects of 'bound armor' when you have a daedric summoning ability slotted.
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »The idea for the new Surge isnt even that bad (especially for melee ranged stam sorcs).
The problem is the extremely low healing value, if the healing value is buffed sorcs will have a reliable self-heal as long as they keep landing crits.
Every other class has self-healing abilities so why shouldnt sorcs have one?
Agree completely! By far, the simplest solution to the Surge issues is to raise the flat rate heal by a large amount. In my opinion, a 200% increase would silence most of the complaints in both PvE and PvP.
Joy_Division wrote: »After reading this post, along with many others, I have to say I wasn't thrilled about the update. So I decided to gear up and hop into vMSA on the pts.
I used the same gear I have on live and I used the same skills I use on live, other than empowered ward. I finished the arena in just over an hour.
My honest thoughts:
My score was a little lower due to not being used to the changes, lack of addons and only having 300 champion points. By changes I mean, no more precast of shields and no more burst overload / frag heals. I found that the precast was not needed due to the heals that surge would provide at the time the enemies spawn. Everything else was pretty much the same. I did notice that I was using more magicka than my normal run on live but I feel this could be prevented after a little time spent dealing with the slight change to a rotation. It would just mean breaking some habits. Some rounds were harder but some rounds were easier due to the new surge. The new surge is not bad.
I took the time to run the arena on pts. I suggest other sorcs who are nervous about the changes should do the same. The changes are not as bleak as they sound.
Im adding some pictures as proof. The picture with the leader board was taken just moments ago.
@zeroIndex
I tried it out as well and found that it was a better heal since it's more consistent and triggers off ground AoE. Sure you don't get the Overload mega heals, but I prefer this version more. As for the shields, it's not like they last long enough for the time duration to really be an issue, except for those of us that precast shields.
I think this is once again a case of people reading patch notes and not testing them out, but instead immediately jumping to conclusions. It's the same with the tank changes, which benefits more people than it hurts.
I kind of wish everyone would take the time to properly test things out instead of giving up before even trying and making threads like these. Some of the posts here sound like people didn't even test out the surge.
PTS build ran a skill I didn't want to use to proc more heals. Live build made zero accommodations. Live is still better. Noticeably. I didn't just read the patch notes and jump to conclusions. In the OP I said:
"We often say ZoS doesn't listen to our feedback. Accuse them of ignoring us. Claim they don't play their game.
Maybe they think, perhaps with some justification, that since we rarely actually play the PTS, they want to see how the DB changes perform in gameplay situations as opposed to the theorycrafting and mathematical formulas we throw at them. So I hopped into Vet Maelstrom Arena to play in a competitive setting with the new Sorcerer changes."
I didn't just give up. It was tested, results were documented and are 100% consistent demonstrating that Surge gives less healing all around as well as not offering any burst. If people have the arena memorized and are very good sorcerers, they are still going to be able to beat the arena. I did not say otherwise. My contention was that PTS version of Surge was nerf and when coupled with the nerf to Hardened Ward amounted to a net-nerf to the other three classes, something I find highly questionable as in my estimation sorcs are not indisputably better. Maybe you find the new surge convenient because you can DoT up spawn positions you have memorized in vMA, but some sorcerers play content where the are no spawns to DoT up and the absence of the burst option and the imposition of a 1 second cooldown make adapting to the new version awkward and not fun.
Joy_Division wrote: »After reading this post, along with many others, I have to say I wasn't thrilled about the update. So I decided to gear up and hop into vMSA on the pts.
I used the same gear I have on live and I used the same skills I use on live, other than empowered ward. I finished the arena in just over an hour.
My honest thoughts:
My score was a little lower due to not being used to the changes, lack of addons and only having 300 champion points. By changes I mean, no more precast of shields and no more burst overload / frag heals. I found that the precast was not needed due to the heals that surge would provide at the time the enemies spawn. Everything else was pretty much the same. I did notice that I was using more magicka than my normal run on live but I feel this could be prevented after a little time spent dealing with the slight change to a rotation. It would just mean breaking some habits. Some rounds were harder but some rounds were easier due to the new surge. The new surge is not bad.
I took the time to run the arena on pts. I suggest other sorcs who are nervous about the changes should do the same. The changes are not as bleak as they sound.
Im adding some pictures as proof. The picture with the leader board was taken just moments ago.
@zeroIndex
I tried it out as well and found that it was a better heal since it's more consistent and triggers off ground AoE. Sure you don't get the Overload mega heals, but I prefer this version more. As for the shields, it's not like they last long enough for the time duration to really be an issue, except for those of us that precast shields.
I think this is once again a case of people reading patch notes and not testing them out, but instead immediately jumping to conclusions. It's the same with the tank changes, which benefits more people than it hurts.
I kind of wish everyone would take the time to properly test things out instead of giving up before even trying and making threads like these. Some of the posts here sound like people didn't even test out the surge.
PTS build ran a skill I didn't want to use to proc more heals. Live build made zero accommodations. Live is still better. Noticeably. I didn't just read the patch notes and jump to conclusions. In the OP I said:
"We often say ZoS doesn't listen to our feedback. Accuse them of ignoring us. Claim they don't play their game.
Maybe they think, perhaps with some justification, that since we rarely actually play the PTS, they want to see how the DB changes perform in gameplay situations as opposed to the theorycrafting and mathematical formulas we throw at them. So I hopped into Vet Maelstrom Arena to play in a competitive setting with the new Sorcerer changes."
I didn't just give up. It was tested, results were documented and are 100% consistent demonstrating that Surge gives less healing all around as well as not offering any burst. If people have the arena memorized and are very good sorcerers, they are still going to be able to beat the arena. I did not say otherwise. My contention was that PTS version of Surge was nerf and when coupled with the nerf to Hardened Ward amounted to a net-nerf to the other three classes, something I find highly questionable as in my estimation sorcs are not indisputably better. Maybe you find the new surge convenient because you can DoT up spawn positions you have memorized in vMA, but some sorcerers play content where the are no spawns to DoT up and the absence of the burst option and the imposition of a 1 second cooldown make adapting to the new version awkward and not fun.
I wasn't really refering to the OP, but more so other comments on this thread that seemingly give up without trying it out for themselves. People are just completely agreeing with your point of view, but don't bother give it a test of their own. I don't think there's anything wrong with advocating someone else's perspective of something, but one has to test for oneself to have an honest opinion. It just sort of reminds of whenever people see patch notes they doom something because on paper it sounds like it is bad, but they don't truly know if it is until they try for themselves. Just like the tank changes.
I agree with the two posts @zeroIndex has made. He's a person whose opinion I trust since he has been playing it since launch and has always been one of the best sorcerers on my server. What he is describing is pretty much the exact same results I have seen. Some rounds on specific stages are harder due to lack of burst heal from Overload crits, but the consistent heal helps a lot more with most of the fights, so it ends up feeling easier with the new surge honestly. Sure it won't be better for everyone, but if you are running ground aoes it is better than on Live. You need to run a resto staff like a lot of people are saying here.
Also, your "heals per second" post (that i didn't include in the quote because it was too long) is pretty misleading. It is just like how some healers can get 80k heals per second, because all they do is spam breath of life with high crit, even though people only require 2k heals, but are getting 30k, which inflates number immensely (same thing happens with dps, where you end up on dps tests doing more overall damage than the target has health, this happens quite often on Bloodspawn for example).
The big crit heals with overload and frags on live are pretty much just like that. They'll heal you for a sh*t ton, but you don't really need all that health most of the time. So I don't trust your point of view purely based on those numbers.
Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.
I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Solariken - I don't believe you have as keen grasp on sorcerers of you think you do. Your posts reveal more frustration fighting against them than actually playing them.
You say:Sorcs finally have to make some sacrifices in choosing how they build rather than being maximally effective at self-healing, resource management, and damage mitigation while in full DPS mode
Sorcs? Tell me ... exactly what sacrifice do I have to make on my templar standing in my Focus/Ritual while puncturing sweeping stuff? Or a NB siphoning while in her path? And in those two cases, that is actual "full DPS" mode, far more self-healing than a sorc will get and better resource-management that a sorcerer can obtain (in particular the NB).
The fact of the matter is that Sorcerers are the *worst* of the magicka classes at self-healing while in full DPS mode and also the worst at healing themselves in general. In order for a sorcerer to mitigate incoming damage, they have to break "full DPS mode" and constantly reapply their shields, a step templars, NBs, and even DKs do not necessarily have to do.
What evidence can you forward that sorcerers are distinctive from other classes in that their "INSANELY effective" cookie-cutter build is "vastly over-performing" the other three classes? This sounds like an opinion to me. One that your entitled too, but if you are going to present it as a fact, it is your responsibility to substantiate it. How is a sorcerer over-performing relative to say the heavy armor puncturing sweeping, breath of lifing, and Jesus Beaming magicka templar? In the next patch, are you going to contend a stam DK decked out in Morag Tong won't also be insanely effective?
It's always easy for people who main other classes to tell the one getting nerfed, and there is no question the sorcerer is getting a net nerf, that they will be fine. If doing vMA is so easy on your sorcerer, why don't you do what I did and go onto the PTS and show us that they are indeed fine. It is completely unfair to dispute the actual evidence I am presenting and claim sorcerers will "fine" when you have done nothing on the PTS to demonstrate otherwise.
I want to be clear @Joy_Division that I wasn't refuting any of your evidence for the "net nerf" Sorcs are getting. I also said in the first sentence if my post that I'm not the sorc expert - however I don't appreciate those that try to invalidate others' opinions by saying "you don't have a max level sorc so gtfo." I felt compelled to respond even though I know I shouldn't feed the trolls.
Also, you aren't being fair with your apples-to-oranges comment about self-healing between classes. Templars and NB have great self-healing too, but have to break DPS to reposition incredibly often whereas Sorcs don't necessarily need to, and if they do, Streak gives them a huge upper hand in this too. Unless your self-healing metric is face-tanking some easy PvE garbage like Bloodspawn then I disagree that Sorcs have it the worst.
I remember when vMA/Orsinium first dropped, the sorc leaderboard was a mile long in the first two weeks while all other classes were slow to represent. I also know that the most effective PvP 1vX'ers that I still see are mSorcs and stam Dk's. You are right though, everything I have said is opinion without a long list of supporting evidence except that ZOS apparently agrees that Sorcs needed to be tuned down. I'm sorry if the nerf hurts, but I'll say again that you will adapt and find yourself in a good place on your sorc.
I wish I could chime in with specifics about the PTS, but my 1.5mbps T1 makes it not worth the effort to download PTS patches, sorry.
You keep saying sorcerers will have to adapt and they will be fine ... but you have not offered any ideas
I've adapted and it's a sad day my sorc is now my crafting mule and my mage blade is my main.
Is this the answer to the problem No, but looks like it's the only way forward at the moment....
Thanks Zos and PvPers for spoiling my sorc in pve.
Pretty much what I did, but then I remembered that I got other games and I just stopped playing eso to wait for Zenimax to maybe at least get one brain to share among all of them to fix sorcs someday.
Joy_Division wrote: »Important!
I heavily edited the OP to account for a completed PTS Maelstrom run and some things which I have modified my analysis.
I still strongly believe the Surge change is a net nerf and inadequate compared to the self-sustain the other three classes have on their own, a situation I find problematic given that sorcerers no longer exclusively have a 20 second large pre-casted shield.
That being said, I have come to recognize that my belief is in large part derived from the way in which I play (I rely heavily on abilities that DPS+heal on every class and in every facet of the game). It would be crazy for me to insist that those posters who have remarked favorably on the new Surge are somehow "wrong." It is possible to have different experiences and prefer different morphs. In fact, ideally all ESO's skills & morphs should be as such.
So rather than claim that the PTS surge is "completely inadequate," I am going to suggest ZoS offer sorcerers the choice which Surge morph they would rather have and better suits their play style. In short, have the base version give major brutality and major sorcery (it was always a waste for it not to) and have morph one be the PTS version that grants more consistent heals without the burst and morph two to be the Live version favoring high direct damage bursts.
I believe this would pretty much make most folks happy.
Joy_Division wrote: »Important!
I heavily edited the OP to account for a completed PTS Maelstrom run and some things which I have modified my analysis.
I still strongly believe the Surge change is a net nerf and inadequate compared to the self-sustain the other three classes have on their own, a situation I find problematic given that sorcerers no longer exclusively have a 20 second large pre-casted shield.
That being said, I have come to recognize that my belief is in large part derived from the way in which I play (I rely heavily on abilities that DPS+heal on every class and in every facet of the game). It would be crazy for me to insist that those posters who have remarked favorably on the new Surge are somehow "wrong." It is possible to have different experiences and prefer different morphs. In fact, ideally all ESO's skills & morphs should be as such.
So rather than claim that the PTS surge is "completely inadequate," I am going to suggest ZoS offer sorcerers the choice which Surge morph they would rather have and better suits their play style. In short, have the base version give major brutality and major sorcery (it was always a waste for it not to) and have morph one be the PTS version that grants more consistent heals without the burst and morph two to be the Live version favoring high direct damage bursts.
I believe this would pretty much make most folks happy.
Hey @Joy_Division, stepping a little away from Surge as ZOS is still messing with numbers for those abilities, what do you think Sorcerers need to make their kits more flexible and increase their overall DPS and Utility for PvE? ^^